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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's II
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, January 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stateofshock -

Why on earth does he do this?

My guess would be a combination of seeing life through an altered reality and an inability to change a long developed habit.

The altered reality happens because during an A you get so foggy you have no idea what is happening around you. It's quite possible that despite the S, despite clearly discussed intentions to be apart, he hasn't admitted to himself that his M is over. A part of him is still seeking to preserve whatever small piece of the relationship is left, and to admit the A is still going on to you destroys that opportunity.

In addition to that possibility, he has also honed a skill of lying to you. As that becomes a part of his persona, it's tough for him to change back to being honest with you.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, January 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Devestated ,
I was gonna reply, but Listeningclosely said exactly what I would,only he says it so much better
I read it to my BS and he agreed.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
Devestatedx5
♀ Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, January 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, Listeningclosely, for your detailed and heart-felt response. In a way, it helps a bit more in trying to understand what he means, and what I shoud do to help him through those times. (Reassure that I love him, that I want to remain married to him, that we do have a bright future and to point out those character traits of his that are good.)


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
stateofshock
♀ Member
Member # 21287
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, January 8th (Thursday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's quite possible that despite the S, despite clearly discussed intentions to be apart, he hasn't admitted to himself that his M is over. A part of him is still seeking to preserve whatever small piece of the relationship is left, and to admit the A is still going on to you destroys that opportunity.

Thank you, Listentingclosely. That actually makes alot of sense when you put it that way. Maybe that is what he is doing. And like you say, just being in the habit of lying to me for so long.


Married 17 years.
Me-41
Him-45
D-Day 9/9/08
1 Daughter, 15 yrs old
OW is ex-wife from 22 yrs ago
He's been out of the house since 9/20.
R seems to be impossible now...

Posts: 277 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Southwest
shockdbyndbelief
♀ Member
Member # 21286
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, January 9th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi WSs,

Can you recommend any books that helped you work through your guilt, remorse...helped you understand why you cheated?
My ex-wayward boyfriend is in a bad place and I was wondering if there were any helpful books he could read to sort out his thoughts and feelings.
Thanks, an ex-BS


Posts: 145 | Registered: Oct 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, January 9th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shockdbyndbelief -

Can you recommend any books that helped you work through your guilt, remorse...helped you understand why you cheated?

For me, different books were helpful in different phases of my recovery. After the Affair did a great job of helping my BW and I talk through everything that happened, discuss a lot about why it happened, and gain some common ground around what we should do next.

Not Just Friends did more in the way of helping me understand myself. How I headed down the slippery slope, and the actions I needed to take to heal myself and make myself stronger.

Five Love Languages showed me a lot more about how I could display my love for my BW in different ways than I had before. It clarified ways in which I might be missing the mark as well. It was a great resource for breaking through the frustration of feeling I was working incredibly hard yet still missing the mark in it all being received as taking positive steps in our relationship.

The Assertiveness Workbook has helped me sort through my Passive Aggressive tendencies and conflict avoidance. It's helped me start to find ways to express myself in a healthier way instead of running and hiding under a rock.

The Purpose Driven Life has helped me regain my footing with regard to who I am and how to be more "true" to the person I should be.

My next step is working on regaining my career focus, which fell apart during my A. I've been doing career coaching which has been very beneficial, but I have a copy of Reclaiming the Fire on my shelf waiting to help me work through the work burnout issues I had that led to some of my destructive behavior.

There are tons more out there, but these were the strongest books in my recovery process.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
hurtingalot
♀ Member
Member # 22194
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, January 9th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really don't know if I should post here are not. I had and affair 8 years ago. My husband tried to talk to me about it but I shut him out. I had been abused as a child and so I had shut off the intimate side of my self also. Poor guy had nothing and felt like I was in control of everything. He thought it was his job to keep me happy and was not true to his own feelings because he was so worried about my happiness. I found out 3 weeks ago that he has been having an affair with someone he could finally open up to and share his feelings. The OW is married with kids and is not leaving her H. They are not talking and has told me he will not call her and if she calls him he will tell me. He tells me he needs his space to work through everything. I know I have alot of changes to make like really listening to him when he talks and letting him share his feelings with me. I do try and control the marriage and I can now see all of these things. I love him with everything I have and just wish I knew what I can do to help him see the changes I have made in myself.


ME- 41
H - 48
Married - 17 yrs. together 20
2 - kids
Divorcing

Posts: 126 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: NE
shockdbyndbelief
♀ Member
Member # 21286
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, January 9th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the ideas, Listening Closely. I guess I am looking for some more general self-help books, too, since we are not reconciling...

Posts: 145 | Registered: Oct 2008
toonice
♂ Member
Member # 19862
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, January 9th (Friday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shockdbyndbelief;
I know I'm not supposed to reply for my FWW. But I'll be bad anyway. :)

My FWW has benefitted from:
"Codependency No More"
"How to be an Assertive (not Aggressive) Woman."
"The Language of Letting Go: Daily Meditations for Codependents"

I have been reading a couple of books that I think are just amazing, and I hope my FWW will read them as well:
"Home Coming" Jon Bradshaw
"Peoplemaking" Virginia Satir



Stronger than reason, stronger than lies, the only truth I know, is the look in your eyes.
BH(42) FWW(41; 8+ OM/OW, 5 year LTA)
M: 16yrs, 2 kids DS16, DD13. d-day 6/17/2008 (after 9 months of MC+gaslighting).

Posts: 4898 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: CA
shockdbyndbelief
♀ Member
Member # 21286
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, January 10th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great, I will check out these books. Thanks, toonice!

Posts: 145 | Registered: Oct 2008
cantbelieve
♀ Member
Member # 22028
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, January 10th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS..if your BS told you that you would have a "free" card to leave the marriage and pursue your A without anyone knowing what you had done...basically saying "We split up because we had just grown apart" would you leave your M?


Me: BS (57)
Him: WS (58)
LTA 4 years with co-worker
DS(26)
DD(23)
DD(19)
Married 28 years
D-day1 5/08
D-day2 11/08
Status: 6 yrs and wondering if I'll ever be truly happy again

Posts: 1044 | Registered: Dec 2008 | From: DFW
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, January 10th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cantbelieve -

.if your BS told you that you would have a "free" card to leave the marriage and pursue your A without anyone knowing what you had done...basically saying "We split up because we had just grown apart" would you leave your M?

Mine did offer that. She told me she simply wanted to see me happy. And while it would hurt her deeply if I left, if that's what I needed to be happy she was willing to give that to me.

So based on the outcome here, my answer to your question is no. I stayed, committed to R, and the results for my part have been amazing.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
me+6
♀ Member
Member # 15035
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, January 10th (Saturday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a WS did you ever feel reluctant to R because you were afraid you may hurt your BS again?

My WH tells me he wants to R but is afraid to for this reason. Is this a real fear or a way of avoiding the M or working at the M?

After is PA almost 2 years ago we spent a year and half trying to R. It was then he had a one month EA with another OW. I know we didn't do the real work of R for very long and Wh never did IC.

I would welcome any one's input.


me-36 WH-37
Married 16 years together 18
6 children (5,7,8,12,14,16)
DDay - March 4th 2007
DDay #2 September 13, 2008 EA
Separated Oct 24, 2008
7/1/09 He is coming home!
Beginning to R

Posts: 694 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: East Coast
1DLW
♀ Member
Member # 21971
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, January 11th (Sunday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Right after D-day, BS asked me if I wanted to try R. Told me to think about it a while.
My initial answer was NO, I was terrified I could hurt him, and I thought he would be better off without me. It was the first not totally selfish thought I had in years, if not ever.
Then I realized I could not do it, I had to fight with everything in me to be with him, and be the woman he deserved.
I am so glad I made that choice. I see now that the person I was hurt him, the person I am now becoming can and will make his life better.


WS 42

Posts: 483 | Registered: Dec 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, January 12th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

me+6 -

As a WS did you ever feel reluctant to R because you were afraid you may hurt your BS again?

In my case, no. I was willing to R when confronted with the decision to either R or D. I can't say I was afraid of hurting my BW again, but there was a very big difference in my case:

Wh never did IC.

This is huge, because in my case IC was the biggest part of my recovery. Unless I did the work necessary to figure out why I did what I did, and to change my behavior as a result, I could not guarantee a different outcome.

My BW was incredibly wise when she gave me my choice on D-Day. Attorney or Counselor. There was no in between. That set the stage for a lot of hard work, but some wonderful results as well.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
fyrepixie15
♀ Member
Member # 20815
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, January 12th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, so without explaining my entire sitch, please read my profile for background. anyway, I thought we had been doing well in R. Before Christmas our counselor asked FWH if he thought our M was worth saving and he said yes and that his love for me never wavered even throughout the A. This made me feel he was committed to us and ready to truly R and work on the M. Today, after telling him about my miscarriage (our 12th)...and trying to see if he still wanted to plan the IVF in a couple months we got into a "discussion" about him and his feelings on staying and leaving the M...he said ever since we started counseling he has questioned his feelings. When just a few weeks ago he said his love has never wavered. I am so confused and so hurt. I left for awhile and called him and told him if he had any love for me and the kids he would call his insurance company and get the name of a psychiatrist to see for AF's. Our therapist says he is very much in a depression and has been for a long time. He needs to be on something. I believe his depression and FOO issues are what led to the A...not that he doesn't love me. He thinks "how can I love you if I could have an A". He also said he is tired of going to counseling.

Is he just tired of dealing with his obvious issues? Not wanting to do the work and own his shit? I have done so much on myself...went on AD even though I didn't want to. Taken a hard look at some things I do and had done in the past to make him feel less than valued. Apologized profusely for a major incident concerning my ex husband (bio father of our kids)..I have explained that sitch awhile back. I have taken responsibility for anything I may have done to take him for granted during our M. He hasn't owned up to much anything. He hasn't made that "grand gesture" our therapist wanted him to in order to make me feel safer in the fact he is committed. All I know is...he is still here, still says he loves me, still wants me physically, and acts like all is ok most of the time. But when we end up talking...really talking...that is when I get things like he said today.

Anybody been through this? Does it sound like NC has been broken or something? Or is he just really that F'd up in his head?

BTW, he did call the insurance company and got the name of a shrink.

[This message edited by fyrepixie15 at 10:32 AM, January 12th (Monday)]


Me 39
H 39
Married 14 yrs
DD 20
DS 18
D-Day 8/11/08
in IC, both of us


"You change for two reasons: Either you learn enough that you want to, or you've been hurt enough that you have to."


Posts: 1710 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Florida
Elle_47
♀ Member
Member # 10455
Default  Posted: 2:27 PM, January 12th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Fyrepixie,

It's very, very normal for a WS's emotions to be on a big rollercoaster at this point. You are only two months out. At two months out, I was still such a wreck that I wasn't sure if I should be working on my marriage either... not because I didn't love my husband, but because I felt like I was such a trainwreck that there was no way a marriage was going to work until I had my own shit sorted out. This doesn't mean it's OK for your WS to be hot and cold like this, but on the other hand, it's good that he's at least being honest with you and telling you that he's got a lot of stuff going through his head. Adding on to that your family stress of a miscarriage (and I want to pass along my massive condolences for that, it's so tough) and potential IVF (which in and of itself is a HUGE stressor), and you have a recipe for a WS to think, holy crap, there is a ton of stuff going on, am I strong enough/man enough/whatever enough to deal with this?

Encourage him to keep talking, to keep talking to a counsellor or to you or to whoever. Hang in there.


Turns out sometimes you have to do the wrong thing. Sometimes you have to make a big mistake to figure out how to make things right. Mistakes are painful, but they're the only way to find out who you really are.

Posts: 721 | Registered: Apr 2006 | From: Canada
fyrepixie15
♀ Member
Member # 20815
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, January 12th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

elle thanks, but we are 5 months out and I figured we would have been further by now, especially since he immediately chose me, immediately established NC, and sends me all kinds of positive signals and signs all the time....then every few weeks something like this happens and something gets said like was said this morning. I just don't know.


Me 39
H 39
Married 14 yrs
DD 20
DS 18
D-Day 8/11/08
in IC, both of us


"You change for two reasons: Either you learn enough that you want to, or you've been hurt enough that you have to."


Posts: 1710 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Florida
GingerBird
♀ Member
Member # 19097
Default  Posted: 2:51 PM, January 12th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel silly writing this as when I put my story on paper I expect people to cry out "why are you bothering??" but here goes.
My BF has been a serial cheat for over a decade. I cheated in my early 20's but I realised I wasn't taking the relationships seriously and thought I was just with the wrong person - I used to think all cheating meant that but I have learnt.
He told me he had cheated before but didn't want to do it again and felt I was the right person for him.
He cheated on me 4 times in the first few months then stopped. I found out nearly a year after it stopped. I became suspicious after I caught him lying to my face about something else... well truth be told I was always suspicious. I told him many times that I thought that there was something he wasn't telling me and begged him to be honest. He finally told me when he was backed into a corner.
He had lied for so long and I felt like I was going insane and I think I did there for a little while.
I have stayed with him because of a few factors - I had become pretty sick of things when suddenly everything seemed to change for the better. I now know this co-incided with the end of his infidelities. Things became really great after that until I caught him lying.
He has spent over a year doing everything he can to minimise my pain and build trust. This has hit me very hard and I have given him so much shit and he has really taken it like a man.
There are other reasons.
He has been to counselling and worked out why he got into the habit of this lifestyle to begin with and broken down his mis-conceptions about it. He did want to be with me and is so sorry, its just he was so used to compartmentalising his life and got scared when he met me about the changes he would be making and did some stupid things. It matters a lot to me that this behaviour finished well before I found out - all evidence backs this up.
I saw him change when he stopped cheating and then again after Dday.
I'm sorry I am babbling.
I just want to know it is possible for serial cheats to change for good. I don't expect guarantees about my relationship personally, I just want to know that it is possible. I would love to understand it better.....
Can anyone help?


"True happiness does not come from experiencing pleasures of the body and ego—but from having experiences that stimulate your core self—your “soul”—challenging and inspiring you to grow into your highest potential as a person"

Posts: 836 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: UK
Copeland
♂ Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, January 12th (Monday), 2009View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ginger-It certainly is possible. It will happen when he really feels true empathy for what you've gone through. When it gets into his core and he really wants to change his path.

You'll be a good judge of that. But you'll also need to take very good care of yourself. You need to make certain that your happiness does not depend upon whether you have him or not-that you are happy with you. I think he has a long way to go. Its going to take him an incredible amount of hard inner work to make things different for himself.


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
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