FWH also thinks all will be fine if I'd just get a job to occupy my mind instead of being home to think so much! Like I could be a great employee right now with all that's in my head.
Sometimes i wish I had a faith. I don't, just in mankind and it looks like that was misplaced.
And on that note - nite nite.
I am just thrilled to pieces for you about your new home though! What a wonderful exciting joy! Please let yourself enjoy it, don't worry about the what-will-go-wrongs or the what-ifs. Just enjoy it!!!
I'm thinking of you all! like I said, I read daily, just not quite myself. I know I am probably depressed. I erased that sentence 3 times if that's any indication. I just don't think I want medication just yet. I want to get a little distance for dday, you know? We go to MC on Friday morning.
Thanks UKG for the thoughts.
How well do you know him?
WH, I, & the "friend" were friends like 2 years prior to OW coming along- we spent a lot of time together. He was the first person we told when we were expecting our first child.
Do you trust him enough to feel his opinion is valid or do you think he will be saying things he thinks you want to hear?
Well, I've heard what WH has to say about things....so if they're way off base then I'd be left with doubts & questions. If it's similar information then I would have WH's thoughts abd feelings confirmed and maybe some extra insight into OW#2's feelings & thoughts since she wasn't really talking to WH- they never talked about the A until they started to end it a few months prior to D-day. I could care less about OW#1's feelings but feel like I need more information about OW#2 since she was my "friend" for me to be able to understand and move on. I was saying the same thing when she stopped talking to me & wouldn't share anymore- this was like 6 months ago now.
I certainly realize he wasn't my true "friend", hence we've had no contact with him and I was hurt by his betrayal as well- and amazed that so many people could be involved for so long & no one found out.
What sort of knowledge are you trying to gain?
I guess I kinda already answered that- but insight into OW#2, what were her thoughts/feeling/intent- Was it easy for her to continue while becoming my friend? Did she ever even consider me? She wasn't interested in the sex so WTF was she looking for? And...to talk to the ONE person that WH was confiding in all along the A. He's the only person who got the "inside" information on WH since he wasn't talking to OW.
They were in cloud cuckoo land
But, what was the big drive? They supposedly had no plans to be a couple yet were saying ILY for the final year. She didn't want the sex supposedly (she eventually felt used of course) but put out 99% of the time and would visit him at work so they could hang out (Wh supposedly said they wouldn't save sex yet they always did). And then...she'd return to my house, or I'd come home from work and she'd be my great friend, help me cook & clean, care for the kids, we'd drink together, go to the movies, hang out, etc. To some degree I want to know if that friendship I felt was semi real or all pretend to be with WH.
So Lost- thanks for checking in. Hope you can process as you need to and can come out of your "funk"
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
but insight into OW#2, what were her thoughts/feeling/intent- Was it easy for her to continue while becoming my friend? Did she ever even consider me? She wasn't interested in the sex so WTF was she looking for?
WhatNow - First of all, about this "friend". He knew what was going on but did nothing to protect you so how good of a friend is he? But, let just say that, theoretically, he does tell you the truth about what she thought and wanted - do you think you would understand? I doubt it. These people are so fucked up and so broken that us "normal peeps" don't have a chance. You can't understand why your H did what he did and what he was thinking and you know him better than anyone else. We cannot understand because we aren't like them. I think this path will only lead to more pain for you. Give it time and let her fade.
LH - Congrats on the house and as UKG said, just in time for the holidays. I like what MIG said about trying to move outside his cycle of up and down. Trying to be neutral and see if that is better for you and the kids. I am pretty sure it won't be better for him but will probably be better for you. And, as far as the passwords, full disclosure is a requirement for R. Without it, true R is not in place. You don't have to leave, you just have to know what the situation truly is.
UKG - the whole ring at the table with the ILs seriously makes me want to . It reminds me of a bad middle school breakup at lunch. He clearly was "working on" his parents and, guess what, it worked! He know their buttons and will push them. I am glad you are not sending them the email as I agree that it will do no good at all. My H just spent 5 days with his mom. He told her the truth about his life, his lies, his treatment of me and, guess what?, she is in denial. She thinks that this is somehow my fault.
SoLost - glad you checked in. You sound very down. Can you just word vomit out how you feel? Maybe it would make you feel better?
FNF - thanks for the summaries and links. I can see how the cycle starts. I have been spending a lot of time reading and thinking about myself, my past, my life events and I can see how my H could have clearly been put into an even BIGGER position of low self-esteem by me. I know all of his infidelities have nothing to do with me but I can see where a really bad dynamic started with us. I have a LOT of work to do on this front. Any word on your sister?
We talked in MC about how I continue to have these non-stop thoughts- MC thinks it's normal based on the level of grief & betrayal I'm dealing with.....but I feel like the thoughts continue to go round & round without some sort of understanding. I've been calling this week to try to find a IC. I had really wanted a female but there's only like 5 on the plan- 1 is WH's IC, 2 are out of town, 1 sees children only, and I have a call into the other one.
Okay...now I'm crying again. I feel like I get to this point of feeling like I can't get more information, won't understand and I think it's a loss of power, control...I don't know what I'm looking for....but I feel completely desparate for something- something to make it okay to move on and proceed. Something to make me have some understanding about what happened, why they would do these things...AGH. I want to give up.
I think it's a loss of power, control
That is exactly what it is. We have all been flung into a position over which we had no power or control. Worse yet, we have no power or control over understanding it as some of the people involved (the OP, some friends, some family members, etc) knew what was happening, played a roll and will never tell us the "truth". You know why? They each have their own truth. Even if you lined them all up under duress, the stories that you would get would be different as they all have their own belief as to what happened. They entered this realm under their own fantasy. This "fog" frames their memories.
That is the first issue. The second issue is that we have no control over what they do from here. They were so good at keeping their true selves from us we will never know what the "truth" is about them. That is why boundaries are so important for the BS. We HAVE to have strict boundaries in place to protect US and our wounded hearts. We don't know if they are being honest but we know if they are violating our boundaries because that is an act that we can see.
I am just now (15 months past dday1) getting to this place. AND, I never had to deal with an active OP. No OW that I knew. Just the ghosts of OW past.
BTW, LTA OW#2 has a requested gift list on Amazon (I gotta stop googling this bitch). Guess what is on her list? A bunch of books about trying to get your teenage kids under control, how to make kids behave, how to make them respectful, etc. It made me want to laugh at her and cry for her children at the same time. Geez, how about spend some time raising them rather than every spare moment fuckins someone else's husband!!!
If anyone has any good book rec.s I'll take them. I am ripping through books and it is helping if only through distraction.
they all have their own belief as to what happened.
And I guess i'm desparate to hear it from the possible source who has the unedited version. I just dont know what I have to lose. I hate that I'm thinking about OW#2 but think it's pretty expected since of the role she had in my life, memories I am stuck with.
Maybe it would help me if the "friend" told me WH struggled with his feelings of guilt & confusion- confirmed he only wanted sex...whatever the friend heard and could relay to me. If it's a different story than maybe it's more information that I need to be aware of....
As far as OW, if she was truly stuck in the situation & actually wasn't using me 100% of time, maybe I could get to a better place with what she did, some understanding of it, and let her & the memories fade away. Right now I feel like it's so stuck.
I haven't been talking to WH about the A- I am scared because everytime I open up it ends up poorly from my aspect or he can't handle it and shuts me off. I am starting to realize that I'm not sure I can even talk about it right now because I know the hurt that will return. It's easier to shut it all off, yet it continues to jumble in my brain 24/7. Everything- songs, things that are said, things I read, millions of items in my house, driving to various places, sex, WH himself.....it just goes on & on and I know you all understand, or at least to a degree.
I feel like I've lost everything. Everything I've spent my life building is gone. Views of life, marriage, happiness, self-esteem, sex, a home, security, trust, memories, being a good parent, protecting my children, OMG. I must be PMS'ing, LOL.
the only thing I want to know is that the OW is suffering too
Then again....if I knew the whole A was all fun & games for her I would continue to f'in hate that B. But I don't think it was...and I want to understand it, or at least hear it.
HS- Have you read any of the Real Love series? WH & I are working through Real Love in Marriage right now. "Just friends" is still too difficult to get through together.
Make sure that when you enter the house for the first time after its your you take with you a loaf of bread, a box of salt and a broom.
Anyone else have this tradition? The bread is supposed to symbolically ensure that you will always have plenty to eat, the salt that your life will be tasty (read interesting) and the broom that your house will always be in good order.
Congratulations on your home. There is nothing quite like having a place that is all yours.
Since I knew the answer would be either "maybe" or a resounding "NO!" I feel like there's hope that he will.
I talked about how I wanted to go about finding a new counselor and he said he would ask his IC for a recommendation. I'm making a list of questions this time to ask BEFORE we get involved with someone. I didn't tell him that if he didn't agree, I was seeing a lawyer. I'll wait to hear what he says first.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
but I feel like the thoughts continue to go round & round without some sort of understanding.
She thinks that this is somehow my fault.
They were so good at keeping their true selves from us we will never know what the "truth" is about them.
I feel like I've lost everything. Everything I've spent my life building is gone. Views of life, marriage, happiness, self-esteem, sex, a home, security, trust, memories, being a good parent, protecting my children,
Weepy Ė cautious good news on your H. Is this the last throw of the dice?
BT Ė for us, itís make sure you have the kettle, teapot and mugs so you can keep the removal men watered and in good humour. First thing they say is ďGot the kettle on for a brew?Ē.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 6:29 AM, November 6th (Thursday)]
I have my parents over today through til Mon or Tues. Should I wear my wedding ring? should I ask H to just for now? They don't know, but i am tempted to say that we started having probs in 2001, things came to a head in 2006 and we are working on it. Or shall I just wear the ring and shut up?
My dad's 84 and my mum's 80. They've all their faculties (unlike me ), enjoy good food, wine, going out, etc. and are considered "elders" in their local community with people going to them for various bits of advice. I am loathe to say anything though. But the IL's know. Thoughts?
Weepy Ė cautious good news on your H. Is this the last throw of the dice?
Yes, it is. I have reached a point where I know I still love him, but it's becoming harder and harder to access that feeling. There has not been one conversation that hasn't ended in an argument in weeks. Not one. I really mean... NOT ONE. Dinner, politics, stock market, what I'm wearing. NOT ONE. I know he's ready to end it too, either the arguing or the marriage.
UKG - Don't wear the rings if you're uncomfortable, but don't volunteer anything either. You can tell them they're out being cleaned if they ask. If they ask more pointed questions about your relationship, you can answer them as vaguely or as specifically as you feel you can. I doubt they'll be as judgemental as your IL's.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:10 AM, November 6th (Thursday)]
He told her the truth about his life, his lies, his treatment of me and, guess what?, she is in denial. She thinks that this is somehow my fault.
Now, in the end, I didnít mind exposing FWH to the ILís. He lied so much I met with MOW and then told them cos he had said he was with me out of a sense of duty and appearance and I wanted to know what had gone before. However, I donít want MY parents to see ME as a failure. KWIM? And they will be hugely disappointed, sad, angry, upset and unable to understand why he would do such a thing. My parents have always been there for each other, my dad was very ill when the four of us were young and he wasnít expected to live. He could have had kidney failure and that would have been it and it went on for 10yrs. So they went through a lot. We have it all and my dad would see no reason to dredge up old flames and he would be so angry at my H for doing this to me. thatís it, really.