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User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I I I
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I started to read catch up posts yesterday, then started to write, then logged off. I was in such a bad place and I canít struggle out of it. I have read, but am not in any fit state to answer. Iím sorry.
Fading, I loved the note from your H. Thanks for sharing.
BT, I hope those results come through soon and that it turns out to be something manageable.
Hi LostH Ė home already? How was it?

I am going to see some other kind of therapist who has been recommended, not really IC, although she does do that too. I feel the light is going out of my life and I am disappearing. Other than saying in his original confession that he had an affair for four and a half years (five), he has not offered anything other than the basic outline of the affair. He has lied and minimised and omitted all the way through these two plus years. When I have found things out and put them to him, itís been ďOh, yes, but ÖÖ. ď Right up until I told him I had met MOWís BH, he was insisting that he saw and had sex with her more in the last six months (I had all his phone records, his diary and mine to work out a lot of dates) than in the previous two years. I gave him over two months to fess up to that lie. I gave him hints about specifics he could NOT have forgotten with a sledgehammer. Nope, nothing.

I doubt everything that was and so the very foundations of our relationship donít even exist. Heís still wearing his wedding ring (never wore one before). We bought it almost a year after dday and then I met with OW and found out about the marriage proposals to her. So it and mine stayed in the box. Tehn he put it on over our anni w/end for my parents do, saying it was an anni present. And I feel heís lying by wearing it and yes, trying to lull me into that false sense of security, showing he is ďcommittedĒ, when I just donít believe him. Why now, when he didnít consider our relationship worth it before, yet the one he had with MOW was? He had said heíd wear a ring for her. Talk about fucking with my head and my heart. I just want to take it and squash it flat in a vice.

Why is it when they seem to ďhave it allĒ, they just want more? Are they just fucking greedy, or is it they just believe they are entitled and blithely carry on with it?

He has been phoning and texting, it took a while to get sorted, I think. I donít know if heís spoken to his BF. I went to lunch with him yesterday. Looks like heís going to get Díd and I think it would be a tragedy if he did. Sheís lovely and I wish heíd get his head out of his ass and stop rewriting history.

I donít want to be here when he comes home tomorrow Ė I want to be a thousand miles away. I hate the fact that he is such a convincing liar because it makes me feel I never knew and will never know the man. Before I told him I had met OWís BH, I gave him chance to tell me what BH had told me. I gave him hints with a sledgehammer. He just glossed over without so much as a flicker or a fractional pause in a sentence. So, how can I believe anything he says again. He hasnít even been honest with his BF, I told him stuff H hadnít admitted to, even when BF asked directly.

Nothing has any meaning anymore. Currently not even interested in my boys. Itís like someone is breaking little bits off me, little fragile bits of glass snapping off.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKG - I am so sorry you are having such a rough time. I hope this new C will help you get through this difficult period. Are you on AD's? I know when I was going through the worst of my pain they did help me. I hated being on them but I know I never could have survived that first year without them. I weaned myself off after a year when I felt strong enough to work on my recovery without them.
Please keep posting and talk as much as you need to. We are here for you.
((((((((((UKG))))))))))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((UKG))))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nothing has any meaning anymore. Currently not even interested in my boys

((((UKG))))

This sounds like classic deep depression. Perhaps AD will help. Try to get outside and go for a walk just to give yourself a break for a few minutes. We are here to talk if you want. Can you call your IC and see if they can fit you in or at least talk on the phone?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know some of you (HS in particular :) ) know me as a country western music fan but every now and then I do listen to other stations. Well recently I heard Viva La Vida by Coldplay and ever since, I have been obsessed with it so I decided to check out the lyrics and see why this song was striking a chord with me. Here's the link and the lyrics for anyone who wants to listen. I highlighted the things that I feel I can relate to as a LTA victim/survivor. I'd be curious to hear comments from anyone else who might be a fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44xirQ55IgA

I used to rule the world
Seas would rise when I gave the word
Now in the morning I sweep alone
Sweep the streets I used to own

I used to roll the dice
Feel the fear in my enemy's eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:
"Now the old king is dead! Long live the king!"

One minute I held the key
Next the walls were closed on me
And I discovered that my castles stand
Upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand

I hear Jerusalem bells a ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
Be my mirror my sword and shield
My missionaries in a foreign field
For some reason I can't explain
Once you go there was never, never an honest word That was when I ruled the world
(Ohhh)

It was the wicked and wild wind
Blew down the doors to let me in
Shattered windows and the sound of drums
People couldn't believe what I'd become
Revolutionaries wait
For my head on a silver plate
Just a puppet on a lonely string
Oh who would ever want to be king?
I hear Jerusalem bells a ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
Be my mirror my sword and shield
My missionaries in a foreign field
For some reason I can't explain
I know Saint Peter will call my name
Never an honest word But that was when I ruled the world
(Ohhhhh Ohhh Ohhh)

I hear Jerusalem bells a ringing
Roman Cavalry choirs are singing
Be my mirror my sword and shield
My missionaries in a foreign field
For some reason I can't explain
I know Saint Peter will call my name
Never an honest word
But that was when I ruled the world
Oooooh Oooooh Oooooh
There is such a strong message in this for me. You see, I lived with feeling that I was in control of my life (I used to rule the world). I thought my M was on solid ground and that my H was someone I could place my trust in and build my life around. (And I discovered that my castles stand
Upon pillars of salt and pillars of sand). So many of us are struggling to rebuild our lives after so much destruction. We're looking around at the collapse of our worlds and it is painful beyond imagination. But in all that destruction, there is hope - we must believe that. We can rebuild but when we do, it has to be from something within ourselves. We have learned a lesson - that we cannot put our faith in our H's and for me I believe, no one other than ourselves - and when we rebuild our "castle" we must be that foundation, that strength, that security. We can allow our H's to share in our new world but we can not give up our innermost selves to them, do you KWIM?? I have been let down by others in my past and never really learned this lesson. It was not until d-day that I fully understood the lesson that seemed to be crying out to be learned.
In the end of the song, they are screaming out and I feel that so deeply - like a release - almost like the total liberation that I didn't even know I longed for.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Ukg. Still in PAris. DS caught a awful dose of food poisoning (Disney food DOES not rock!)so we spent the day here at the hotel, trying to sort him out. Last day tomorrow, and hopefully if he is better, will try to see Paris in a day!

***

I doubt everything that was and so the very foundations of our relationship donít even exist.

(((((ukg)))))

I can ditto most of what you said. Most of what I know about the LTAs were due to me finding out or him slipping up.And eventually I gave up.

Like you said, the very foundations of our relationship does not exist. Heck, I even doubt which "him" is even real (hence the good H and bad H analogy I often use).

The most important fact that kept me going thus far, is knowing that I have ALWAYS existed. Noone can take that away from me. Does that make sense?

I think IC is going to be great for you. I hope she helps you find you again.
TAke care, dear friend.

***
Fnf, I love that song as well. Doesnt the music just fill you up?

***
(((((SoLost)))))

You are surviving, and you WILL thrive too, Sweetie. Just take it one day at a time.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We can allow our H's to share in our new world but we can not give up our innermost selves to them, do you KWIM??

My head knows this is truth but my heart can't seem to catch up and i must confess FNF that although it's probably this awful place i'm in, it looks like it must be a lonely truth.


I am figuring out that while i was wanting him to admit that he loved her so i could then tell him to eff off and leave, i was moreso waiting to hear something in the truth that would tell me he had loved me, that at least something of what i believed we'd had was real, if he would just tell the damn truth abiut the A i would somehow have a reason to stay and somehow a reason not to have to face that i had been living in a fantasy world myself.

Iam coming to see that he was no more capaable of loving me than he was of OW or anyone else for that matter.
I think i was no more than the sum of what i did for him as was she.
I wasn't chosen because i was the woman he always wanted, i was chosen mostly because i was the mother he always wanted. In his words, " you took care of me, you were always there, i could always count on you, you had my back,you believed in me" Huh, sounds like what my DD would say about me. I was a good Mom.

Knowing that and living with it though is a different story. It is a lonely place to be when you have to realise that you have never really been loved. That you could have been replaced like a new car at any given moment when you were believing you were cherished for who you were.
I don't have any real idea if that good mom , is what he is so desperate not to lose. TMI, but one big difference now is that he is also desperate , and always i might add, to make love to me. Not something you wanna do with good ole mom.
But what would happen if he got ole mom back?

Same old question i guess, if these guys didn't know what love was and/or weren't capable of truly loving anyone, how the hell can they know or be capable now?

I'm sorry FNF . It seems as if i am raining on your oh so encouraging post. I don't mean to and i do long to get where you are. Please don't stop trying to fill up my, all of our, half empty glasses. If you can't pour it opefully it will trickle in regardless.
(((FNF)))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 1:57 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bonnes vacances, LH!
((hopefully i just said have a good holiday and not something awful like go kiss a goat or something ))
To be sure, Have a great holiday LH!!!


UKG,
Yes, i am so glad you will be talking to someone soon.(((ukg)))

[This message edited by mindisgone at 1:57 PM, October 30th (Thursday)]


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We're looking around at the collapse of our worlds and it is painful beyond imagination. But in all that destruction, there is hope - we must believe that. We can rebuild but when we do, it has to be from something within ourselves. We have learned a lesson - that we cannot put our faith in our H's and for me I believe, no one other than ourselves - and when we rebuild our "castle" we must be that foundation, that strength, that security. We can allow our H's to share in our new world but we can not give up our innermost selves to them, do you KWIM?? I have been let down by others in my past and never really learned this lesson. It was not until d-day that I fully understood the lesson that seemed to be crying out to be learned.

Yes. This is the place that I am *starting* to get to. That I need to rebuild it for ME and only for ME. My place was built on sand because I had put ME second to HIM. Wrongo! Not happening again.

FNF - interesting lyrics. After dday, I had many, many "storm dreams". Some were violent winds, but on a clear day, and I would run for cover only to have the building I was in ripped from the foundation (gee, anyone want to interpret that one? ). I had lots of tornado dreams. I had many dreams of being lost in a storm. My world had literally been blown away and I felt naked and alone in the violent wilderness. But I can see a path for ME. Don't know yet if he will be on it with me but I can start to get there myself.

I am beginning to wonder if this is what year TWO is about. Year one is just survival. Is year two rebuilding? I just finished a book called "After the Darkest Hour; How Suffering Begins the Journey to Wisdom". It was wonderful. It was like reading an entire book written by Desert Lotus! Hmmm. Wonder if it was written by her...maybe she is the author? Anyway, the premise is what you are talking about: that we can use our suffering as a springboard to become a better person but, boy, do I have a lot of work to do.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm way behind....

I honestly believe that an important and necessary part of our healing is having our FWH comfort us as we grieve

I totally agree and understand why this would be- WS's need to comfort us for that connection, empathy, to be able to move together yet time & time again my WH can't handle it when I get emotional & talk about how hurt I am that he did x, y, or z. I try to own it with "I statements" but he just can't handle it right now. I hope the longer he's in IC, hopefully the better it will get.??

_______________

Everything has been poisoned.

Lord, I can relate to that. Everything in my house, memories, holidays...you all know. Tomorrow is Halloween- Last year OW was there as we took the kids out- She met one of my friends that night & we joked about how OW & the friend were SO much different because OW was kinda trashy and the friend is very professional, polite, etc. If I only could have seen the trashy and believed the stereotype.


__________


Happy Anniversary livinlife!


_________

We can never forget that their LTA's ARE NOT ABOUT US - THEY ARE ABOUT THEM and therefore we can not allow their choice to affect how we feel about ourselves

FNF- I totally "get" that....but am somehow still affected. It's mostly the losses that get to me- the broken dream, perfect marriage, H, etc. And...the sex is a horrible problem for me- WH hadn't been with anyone else- I was telling him the other day...."You didn't know anything but me" I was perfect because that was all he knew...now he's done other sexual things we haven't, seen & touched other breasts, bodies, etc. Heard how other women made sexual noises, orgasm, how each of them performs differently, etc. As a result, it makes me feel like shit....and it all makes me wonder what I'm left with. Am I stuck with the short end of the stick? Does he really want this M & me? Marriage is supposed to be this perfect union...and no one is ever good enough to break that, HA! Wasn't too fucking hard.


_____________

we can choose happiness and we must believe deep in our hearts that we deserve that happiness

I think this choice is up & down for me- but right now I'm in the gutter. I've really been thinking about IC because all day long I trigger. Doesn't matter what it is- I can't get rid of it. I have told WH that I've been wanting to be connected & make love for a while now...but it's so hard for me to get to a place where I can open up to that right now.


__________


Weepy- Good idea to record the conversation you had with WH. Not sure how he will react to that.... How did MC progress when you went previously?

_________

For a person without empathy the only reasonable response to their SOs bad feelings is defensivness. That's what you get from him

Wow, I hate to hear that but this is where WH is for the most part. he seems to be really trying to open up instead of getting defensive, but it's certainly a problem for him.


_________

his low life OW make him feel inferior? They were WAY inferior to him.

You are all making my brain say "ding, ding ding" over & over because it all seems to be our situation. WH has said how he felt so much smarter than OW...I obviously, LOL have it together so much more than him...and wonder if he resented that.


________

Fadingmemories- That is such a sincere note your WH wrote. I only wish my WH would "get it" like that. He sound so appreciative- and totally understands.

_________

So Lost- I'm saddened to hear that your WH wasn't more supportive.


I can see how I've been able to get by day to day so much better than a few months ago....but when I think of the holidays, D-day, all of their "anniversaries"....oh, it kills me knowing the horrible pain will return as they come & go.

_________

I hate the fact that he is such a convincing liar because it makes me feel I never knew and will never know the man.

For me it's not only the convincing liar but how the guilt wasn't there enough for them to feel shitty about it. Oh wait...Wh always tells me that he did feel shitty about it, so he'd go back to fucking OW on a regular basis & continue lying. Ooops, I again forgot how much it bothered him.


_________


Gotta get the baby up & go pick up DS#1. Hope to BBL to catch up


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Donít get me on Coldplay:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jBEYyHGbwto
Fix You.

This one just gets me every fucking time. For me, him, OW, OWísBH. Him fixing me, him fixing OW, BH fixing OW, me fixing me. Stuck in reverse. I skip it when itís on. God, there are so many tracks. Leave right now by Will Young is the worst, closely followed by My Resistance is Low by Hoagy Charmichael. Oh and Movin In, canít remember who itís by. One off hit, I think. ďitís been such a long time, and I really do miss your smileĒ yeh, right. The latest one being played on the radio is Adeleís Make You Feel My Love (which is a bob Dylan) and the line about crawling down the avenue. Where do we live? The Avenue. Hit the off button every time. He has Viva la Vida in his car. I bought it, heís got it. Heís never bought a cd in his life. Or cassette. Or vinyl record.

>>>>>sigh<<<<< But I know what you are saying FNF. Iím listening, but I canít hear. Iím on the outside looking in.
I guess I have to build my own castle then. His was a land of smoke, mirrors and lies. I donít do that. I like clear lines, parameters, right and wrong, say what you mean and mean what you say. But I have this problem of trying to seem happier than I am. I feel Iím pretending all the time in the hope that one day Iíll ďfeelĒ it. I talk to him one way and I come in here or to friends and just fall apart at the seams. If he was to read my posts, heíd be upset, depressed and puzzled. Iím doing to him just what he did to me. My head is screaming one thing (UFB, usually), my calm voice says ďplease would you pour me a glass of wine before we start on dinnerĒ. Or I think I will NOT have sex with that bastard who went sticking his dick into that pathetic emotionally retarded ex, only to find I canít and donít want to resist. So why did he want sex with me when he was quite happy shagging her? The cattle prod effect of his touch. Iím fucked up. And this is a really bad time for me. I dreading Remembrance Day (11th) and Remembrance Sunday. The silence to remember those who died in combat over the last 90+yrs. And OW and her name and her wedding anni. How could she want to taint her own anni? Oh, of course. WH was with her, wasnít he. How sweet, spending her wedding anni with my H. How her BH must have loved that one. Another fucking denial that I revealed to be a lie.

My therapist initial (free!) appt is Tues.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

from a personal point of view, I don't let anyone touch me with a knife unless it's a medical necessity.

You and me both, fnf. I haven't had a medical need as of yet (knocking on wood).

We can never forget that their LTA's ARE NOT ABOUT US - THEY ARE ABOUT THEM and therefore we can not allow their choice to affect how we feel about ourselves

WORD!! AMEN!! I'm doing really, really well personal healing wise, and I believe a great deal of it has to do with the fact that I realized from Dday that I wasn't the fucked up one(s) in this equation. It really makes me sad to see the "If only I had been (prettier, thinner, younger, smarter, fill-in-the blank)" posts. There is absolutely nothing a BS could be enough of to compensate for a WSs fuckedupedness.

that we cannot put our faith in our H's and for me I believe, no one other than ourselves - and when we rebuild our "castle" we must be that foundation, that strength, that security. We can allow our H's to share in our new world but we can not give up our innermost selves to them, do you KWIM??

I know what you mean.

Welcome new folks.

(((LTA Tribe)))

((BT)) Hope all is well with your son.


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 5:17 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh and Movin In, canít remember who itís by. One off hit, I think. ďitís been such a long time, and I really do miss your smileĒ yeh, right.

I think that's I'd Really Love to See You Tonight" by England Dan and John Ford Coley. Geez, I haven't heard that song in ages, but when I read the lyrics, it popped right back into my head. My age is showin'.

(((UKg))) I hope the appointment with the C helps you some.

[This message edited by Steelergal at 5:17 PM, October 30th (Thursday)]


Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
Steelergal
♀ Member
Member # 13113
Default  Posted: 5:25 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Some more Coldplay that hit home after dday.

The Scientist

Come up to meet you, tell you Im sorry
You dont know how lovely you are
I had to find you, tell you I need you
Tell you I set you apart
Tell me your secrets, and ask me your questions
Oh lets go back to the start
Running in circles, coming up tails
Heads on a silence apart

Nobody said it was easy
Oh its such a shame for us to part
Nobody said it was easy
No one ever said that it would be this hard
Oh take me back to the start
I was just guessing at numbers and figures
Pulling your puzzles apart
Questions of science, science and progress
Do not speak as loud as my heart
Tell me you love me, come back and haunt me
Oh and I rush to the start
Running in circles, chasing our tails
Coming back as we are

Nobody said it was easy
Oh its such a shame for us to part
Nobody said it was easy
No one ever said it would be so hard
Im going back to the start

Oh ooh ooh ooh ooh ohh (x4)



Posts: 701 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: No Cal
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jeez. DS3 played that on his player and on the piano all the time when he broke up with his long term gf about 6wks before dday. And The Streets Dry Your Eyes, Mate (maybe UK only?) aka plenty more fish in the sea. Sometimes all I could do was give him a big hug and say was ďG*, right now life is shit for you and me. letís just get through the dayĒ He had no idea what I was really saying, he was too wrapped up in his own sadness.

I had all these songs popping up in my head Ė and ďIíd really love to see you tonightĒ was an early one. I feel like the woman in Mary Chapin Carpenterís ďHe Thinks He'll Keep HerĒ
Everything runs right on time, years of practice and design
Spit and polish till it shines.
He thinks he'll keep her
Everything is so benign, safest place you'll ever find
God forbid you change your mind.
He thinks he'll keep her

Yeh, he kept me while fucking MOW. Difference is Iím still here. But nothing runs on time anymore b/c the clock has stopped.
And I hate the fact that he is CRAP with songs, so much so that he has reassigned lines from our songs to her. Or maybe they were always hers anyhow. Three times a lady, Sheís always a Woman, Donít go changing, First time Ever I saw your face, and others. And Bob Dylan, stuff. Lay, Lady Lay. No, too many. Wonít go there.

Heís on his way home. And I will have nothing to say. Because I am not her. This is the mundane that he wanted to escape from and there is nothing I can do to change that. And that is why I have no interest in maintaining the house. If I decorate or refurbish, am I doing it to sell or doing it because we have a future? If I clear the garden for winter, what is the point? That's looking ahead to the spring. I am not his wife and I am not his mistress. So what am i? I feel I donít belong here, so thereís no point to anything other than thinking about keeping the cupboards, fridges and freezers stocked for permanently hungry males. Iím rambling. Gotta be up early to take DS2 to work. They took a sculpture from the gardens of a to-scale baby (6mths?), wrapped it in bubble wrap and put in on a long low-loader. A piece of artwork on loan from Sotherbyís. I stared at it in the early morning mist today. I even took a photo on my phone. I can just imagine the traffic tail back it caused on the motorway.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:32 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, God. He's on his way home and i'm dreading it. I haven't even bought him a card yet. I couldn't find one that seemed right. Can hardly get one that says "to my wonderful DH".


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK: First of all, don't worry about not having a card. My H got away with that for YEARS! If you feel "obligated" get one of those stupid trite one with the dogs or bears or whatever that are always "finding fault" with each other, but wind up happy ever after. To me those cards are wasted space, because there's no real sentiment to them, but they do in a pinch.

WS's need to comfort us for that connection, empathy, to be able to move together yet time & time again my WH can't handle it when I get emotional & talk about how hurt I am that he did x, y, or z. I try to own it with "I statements" but he just can't handle it right now. I hope the longer he's in IC, hopefully the better it will get.??

mig, I guess it depends on the therapist. My H got worse the longer it went on. Now he's on a once a month schedule and it's worthless.

OK Ladies... here's my opening volley, you tell me if it's confrontational or if it sounds like I want to talk.

"H.. the other night we both asked "if I'm such a sleazeball/making your life miserable why are you still here?"

I think it's important we try to answer that question. I would like to try couples counseling again. With someone more experienced with tough cases like us. Kate was fine, but we both said we felt she was in over her head with us.

We don't talk any more at all, we bicker. We don't touch any more. Even when I have tried to hug you these past few days, you have just stood there unresponsive. When I rubbed your neck the other night, you said it was "suspicious". You won't even make eye contact with me. This is not good.

It is obvious you are troubled by something, yet you don't discuss it with me.

It feels like we are not connected as a couple except by virtue of inertia. And I would really like to see that change.

You can sit there and blame me and I can sit here and blame you or we can DO something about it.

What do you want?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy,
you're right it is most certainly worth a try. And at this point you don't have anything to lose.
Him being him though, i'm sure you know that unless it's worded carefully he will see or feel most anything as a criticism.

How about keeping it as brief as possible and leaving no wiggle room ( no way to use your words against you ) and also in a way that he can feel it's a decision he's making , which it actually would be.

How about,

"H.. the other night we both asked "if I'm such a sleazeball/making your life miserable why are you still here?"

I think it's important we try to answer that question. I would like to try couples counseling again. With someone more experienced with tough cases like us. Kate was fine, but we both said we felt she was in over her head with us.

plus, i love you and it hurts me to know you feel like a sleezball.

NOT, i don't think you should have to feel like a sleezeball or i don't want to make you feel like a sleezeball, or even just i don't want you to feel like a sleezeball, anything worded that way would give him a way to turn it around and slap at you.


Maybe when some wiser ones come on board they can help you fine tune it. But i think the key with your H is to keep it short and no wiggle room.
If you think i'm totally off the mark that's OK , because after all you do know him best. But i would still so love to see him make a bit of progress. See you get some of what you need. You obviously love the man and i certainly know what it's like to love someone i wish to hell i didn't.
(((weepy)))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are all making my brain say "ding, ding ding" over & over because it all seems to be our situation. WH has said how he felt so much smarter than OW...I obviously, LOL have it together so much more than him...and wonder if he resented that.

Whatnow,
I don't think you have to wonder. I think you can count on it.


I obviously, LOL have it together so much more than him

'Course you do girl , he wouldn't have married you in the first place if you didn't.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy- I think MIG has some good ideas. Those "I statements" and speaking of your own emotions are really important- not that your WH is going to make anything easy.....


Speaking of music....I got my free IPod the other day & was SO excited! I only had a chance to put 30 or so songs on and listened to it the next day at work.....seemed like I was skipping through every song because I was relating it to OW somehow. AGH. i'm in such a shitty place- continually thinking about IC, feeling like I can't connect with WH and I've been telling him and I feel like he's not helping me get over the hump. I can see where it's my own job, but he needs to be supporting me at the same time. We just had a long conversation- don't think we really got anywhere but I was crying like a baby.

WH's IC brought up something interesting in session earlier this week. She wanted to know about how WH felt when he found the pics of his mom & dad having sex with another woman. (He was a teenager- his brother found them and shared with WH). I'm really curious to exactly what she's thinking about the pics....how it changed his view on relationships & sex? I'm not really sure but I had to LOL when discussing the options with WH....if he's been looking at porn half his life- how is seeing that his parents have sex with others going to be a biggie???


Yesterday was insane- went to pick up DS#1 and he had just fallen- I ended up in the ER until 9:00 (with DS#2) for x-rays but nothing is broken. Trick or treating tonight, WH is working an overnight.

BT- Any results? How is he doing?


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


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