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User Topic: Long Term Affairs X I I I
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:42 PM, October 17th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF - I went and read the thread as I do not believe that my response would be appropriate there. I honestly believe that the depth of the betrayal that we all have experienced is greater than others. This is not a drunken ONS, or a brief fling while at a conference. We are talking about YEARS of betrayal, layered with, often, EA, layered with double betrayal, layered with a lifetime of not knowing our partners.

I have always considered myself extremely competent, I work well under stress, I have the ability to adapt well to circumstances but this is just MORE than I can handle. I have my okay days, the odd good day and a lot of bad ones. I can't bounce because I am deflated. I posted this here because I thought you would all understand.

I need to find all the holes in my "ball", patch them up, reinflate my ball and find the field before I can bounce again.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, October 17th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I honestly believe that the depth of the betrayal that we all have experienced is greater than others. This is not a drunken ONS, or a brief fling while at a conference. We are talking about YEARS of betrayal, layered with, often, EA, layered with double betrayal, layered with a lifetime of not knowing our partners

Hurtshirley, I am so thankful you said this. I believe it to be true as well. But no one says it, just that the LTA is a different animal. Anything longer and more involved is worse it seems to be. There is so much more involved and I wish it was just acknowledged once in a while as the awful thing that it is. A one night drunken affair I could know all the details, deal with how it happened and maybe move on. I will never know all the details of a five year affair. I can never know it all. And I doubt I can ever truly get over it.
Have a killer headache and the kids are wold and H is at work until midnight. Blah. Think I may take a bath and turn the jets on and the fan in the bathroom so I don't hear anyone!

UKGirl, hope you have a good time out!!!!


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:44 AM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need to find all the holes in my "ball", patch them up, reinflate my ball and find the field before I can bounce again

Well put, Shirley.
And you will. This is what "working on yourself" means.

Look about your IC...like I said before, my IC said the same to me. But she also acknowledged that if he does the necessary hard work on himself, we will be able to move on together. Other wise, I will have to move on without him; or decide to stay on in an unequal M, where neither of us will ever be truly content or happy.

For now, my advise for you would be to concentrate on the near future, which is finding your holes, patching them and then re-inflating yourself. Hopefully, your H will be doing the same. What ever happens next year or the following or 3 years from now...let that go, knowing that when it does, you WILL be stronger and more able to deal with it (good or bad).

****
SoLOst, it is hard to even hold a solid thought when you have little ones, isnt it?
I forget how old your kiddos are, but some old fashioned bribery seldom goes wrong, "If you guys dont trouble mum for from Xtime to Ytime, I will &&&".
I have also plomped them in front of the TV with snacks and the rule. Mine are a little older (12,8&7), so it is a bit easier.

Hope you are feeling a little better today.And I hope you plan on having your "I am not the mature one today" days soon.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 7:38 AM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope you are feeling a little better today.And I hope you plan on having your "I am not the mature one today" days soon.

Thanks LH. Not even sure how to do that though, so we'll see. Mine are 7 and 9, so definitely old enough to entertain themselves. Come Friday night, all the energy from the week comes pouring out and they were running around like maniacs! lol I hid in the bathtub and had some lovely 'me' time, so all was good. 7 year old had a sore throat this morning and I am sad to say I was thrilled~~that means no sitting out at the freezing cold soccer game! Woohoo! And yes, two hours later the sore throat is gone. I don;t think he wanted the cold either.

LH, how are you from the car accident? Any aches and pains?

HB, how about you? Any problems?

Didn't someone else have a car accident? Why can my brain not remember that??????


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurtshirley, I am so thankful you said this.

So Lost, obviously the people in JFO and general are in extreme pain but as far as the bounce back I think it helps to know there was at least SOME period of time when your H was loving and faithful. Unfortunately, for most of us, that is not the case. In addition, we are dealing with VERY broken people. To be able to carry off what they did they clearly have some very serious issues that need to be worked on over a long period of time. How do we "bounce back" if we don't know if our partner is "unbroken"?

I have also plomped them in front of the TV with snacks and the rule. Mine are a little older (12,8&7), so it is a bit easier.

I can't tell you how many times over the last year I have used "I Carly" or "Josh and Drake" as baby sitters!!! Sure kids, just watch whatever you like on Nick but don't bother mommy!

I am sad to say I was thrilled~~that means no sitting out at the freezing cold soccer game

Do you live here too? My middle child is sick so nooooo soccer for me this morning. What a shame!

Try to do something you enjoy So Lost. Take a walk in the crisp fall air and watch the leaves fall. Make something yummy to eat for YOU (let the kids have chicken nuggets). Take a bath. Read a book. Just try to take a deep breath and say "I made it this far".


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 9:11 AM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH- Thanks for the link on porn- It was scary. here are some quotes that stuck out to me:


the more time you spend in this fantasy world (porn), the more difficult it becomes to make the transition to reality


sex assumes an almost unsustainable freight of demands and needs. Not only does the act itself become almost the only means through which many men can feel intimate and close, but it is also the way in which they find validation. And sex itself, of course, cannot possibly satisfy such demands.


Women are always, in the words of the average internet site, "hot and ready", eager to please


It is this reinforcing characteristic that leads men to want the experience they have in pornographic fantasy to happen in real life."


Okay...those certainly make me think of the effect porn can have leading up to & continuing an A. WH was obsessed possibly more with porn during the A than prior to. Anyways- I'll ask WH to read that and I'm sure he'll minimize & roll his eyes the entire time.


Hurt789- What a great comfort to come to that conclusion!


Wow to all the recent car accidents.

I had a rough day at work yesterday- one of my clients that I have been spending 6 hours/week with passed away. I was within an hour of finding him myself- instead another worked did. he was barely alive at the time and she performed CPR, along with the help the EMT's provided but it was too late. He was a great guy- I have many funny memories as we could always make each other laugh.

Anyways...WH is working today which is unusual. We're going out tonight to a comedy show that we attend every year. The past 2 years were with OW though- I'm praying she won't be there- I think she knows well enough NOT to go.

[This message edited by Whatnow28 at 9:12 AM, October 18th (Saturday)]


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it helps to know there was at least SOME period of time when your H was loving and faithful.

I think for us, it was the four years we lived in Staffordshire. We had bought a new detached house on the edge of a market town and had just had our first son. He was ten months when we moved. DS2&3 were born there. I had lots of good friends and neighbours, H was happy and successful in his career and we were very much a partnership. We loved each other very much. Then we moved to a part of the country where I was unhappy and it was later I found out that it was where OW had lived as a child and where her brother was buried. H sought out the grave. It also turned out that H worked for the same company as OW’s father. And I wonder if that’s when their relationship began to impinge on ours. That was 1989.

I will never know all the details of a five year affair. I can never know it all. And I doubt I can ever truly get over it.

That is part of it. Last night, I told H that I had met OW’s BH. I can’t really remember what I said cos I’d had quite a bit to drink. I just said it, there was no logical follow on in the conversation. I was looking at his ring, I’m still not wearing one and I thought that the couple on the table next to us had noticed (paranoia here!) and maybe thought we were having an affair. He was a little lost for words. He also tried to contradict me when I said her BH was 53, saying no, no, he’s much older than her. Dumbass, why would BH lie??? And I would have guessed early 50’s anyhow. I could see him trying to work things out. I had already decided I was going to tell him that night, I’d printed off an 8-page document explaining in all in amongst the rants. I gave him the doc this morning. On the way back from the restaurant, we looked in through the window of one of our pubs, saw and waved to DS3’s gf and DS1 was still behind the bar. So we went in. Mistake. That one extra red wine tipped me over so when we got to bed I snivelled and cried until I fell asleep. Again.

This morning, he read it all, shaking his head, wiping the occasional tear and then proceeded to tell me that I am not and have never been second choice, that if he could do a Sunshine of the Spotless Mind for us both, he would. If he could erase her completely, he would. His only answer to why he carried on when everything in our lives was telling him to stop before it went any further was that it wasn’t real and wasn’t really happening. It didn’t work the first time they were together, and I was right when I said that even on the inside, she’s not an attractive person. He has promised he’ll never hurt me like that again, I just thought “no you won’t, cos I wont let you close enough again to allow it”. I dunno. This whole affair thing’s just so draining.

Sorry, having a bit of a pity party.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi UKG. Do you feel a bit relieved now that he knows? Sounds like he was comforting this morning.


I'm feeding the kids and thinking about the past 2 years when we went to this comedy show with OW#2. The first year was in October or November 06- they had only been having sex for 8-9 months. I think we met at the restaurant, all ate (her sister & BF & another couple) then went to the comedy show in her van. I can clearly remember riding in the front of the van with WH driving. OW was in the back. I just don't understand WTF she was looking for. Seems that if she wanted a relationship with WH and had "all these feelings" she would have had a tremendous amount of jealousy when WH had me come to everything. For instance- there were times while watching the kids that they would go out to lunch or take the kids to the park- and WH always called to invite me. I just don't even understand WHY she would put herself in that situation...WHY become friends with me? Seems like it would have been so hurtful for her....but then I think about the way WH saw it which was an excahange of sex for companionship. She supposedly wasn't interested in a relationship....I don't believe that completely.

I'm just rambling....DS is saying "mommy, I want to race with you."


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 12:26 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((UKGirl)))

I can’t really remember what I said cos I’d had quite a bit to drink.

I have to say that one of my regrets is that some of the seminal moments in this whole process have occurred after I have had several (+) glasses of wine. It seems that at that moment the cross-sections of anger, hurt and clarity of vision about the situation seem to hit at the same time. I seem to "see" everything clearer even though my mind is foggy. Maybe the wine dulls some of the senses that are protecting me...I don't know. But, at that moment, out comes the important stuff but I can't remember exactly what was said later and it is very frustrating.

This morning, he read it all, shaking his head, wiping the occasional tear and then proceeded to tell me that I am not and have never been second choice, that if he could do a Sunshine of the Spotless Mind for us both, he would. If he could erase her completely, he would.

This sounds like he is truly feeling sorry, awful, owning his shit, feeling empathy, all of those things that we rarely see from our Hs. I think he really means what he says....can you let him in just a little?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
So Lost
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Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Seriously, HS, I was doing little cartwheels in my mind when ds came in at 7 am and said his throat hurt. This is the first cold weekend soccer game and I was not looking forward to it~!

Take a bath. Read a book. Just try to take a deep breath and say "I made it this far".

I'll try, but I think part of my problem is wondering how far we have come. We never talk about the affair at this point. Never. That doesn't seem normal at 1 year out. I had a bit of a pout this morning. My back hurt and my head hurt and H was lying in bed also and was so unsympathetic. Just really didn't say anything when I told him that. SO I told him how I wanted a husband who gives a shit and was thinking of trading in for one of those b/c the current one doesn't. He said I measly yes I do. Whatever. I said I just want someone who would take care of me for once. He said I don't know how to take care of you with a hurt back and headache. I said I know you don;t, just forget it.

It's true, he has no idea how to take care of me. Rub my back, ask if I want an ice pack, ask if there's anything he can do. Do SOMETHING! And hour later after shower he came over and hugged me and said he was sorry I had a headache and backache. I said you know, it's too late. Why does it take a fit for you to do anything. He just shrugged. He never has an answer.

UKGirl, it is sooo hard to let them in. I cannot imagine truly trusting again. i don't think he will cheat, but I do not trust him with my heart at all. i I would never completely trust that he won't cheat. Especially with her. He did for 5 years, how hard would it be to just slip up one more time? Probably not so hard. He does seem truly remorseful though, so try your best. it's worth the fight.

Whatnow, sounds like you really know what you want as far as boundaries with pron. That's important. H, of course, has not looked at it since we started this conversation. I may bring it up again at some point though.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((ukg)))))

So H finally knows about OWH. Did he react the way you thought he would? I bet his picture of OWH was rather tainted before, as OW would have painted her H in a very unsympathetic light. I wonder what he thinks now that he knows that OWH is in fact an attractive, successful,faithful,funny and intelligent man, in his own way.
I hope that your letter poked a hole through the ice-shield around his heart.
(I am crossing all my fingers and toes that he doesnt break out into a poem today. )

Take care, Ukg.I know this was tough for you.

***

SoLost,your H KNOWS what to do, but he choses not to.
Now, are you going to wait for him to get in ass in gear...or are you going to help yourself?
Harsh, I know, but I am concerned about you. I can see the warning signs from here in the lead up to DDay antiversary, and I am worried that you are going to crash. If I am off base, please accept my apologies.
The reason I say this, is because it reminds me so much of what I say.

Your back hurts...how can you make that better? Can you book a session wuth a deep tissue massage therapist? Can you lie down in the afternoon for 2 hours whilst he has the kids OUT of the house?
What can you do for you, whilst utilising H as well?

***

Wow, Whatnow. This is a major night. Are you both ready to reclaim this night? Have you and H spoken about it? What about what to do/react if she is tasteless enough to appear?
Hopefully this might be a non-event and you get through this fine. However,if you dont, if you find yourself crumbling or breathing hard; let H know. In fact, warn him in advance that this might be tough (you wont know until you are there), and I hope truly that he is super sensitive to your needs.

All the best, Whatnow.
Remember, shoulders back, boobs out, chin high...march on!

****
Shirley, I know more about kids tv than I have a right to. I even know some of those kids' real names! I will confess though to a secret liking for Spongebob Squarepants,
, although that Hannah Montana gets my goat sometimes.
Thankfully my DS likes his documentaries, so when its his TV turn, the girls get some education.

***
BT, have you settled back home yet? Has the danger all passed?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:23 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will confess though to a secret liking for Spongebob Squarepants,

This has been a family favorite for years. My H used to always watch it with the girls when they were younger (the two *teenagers* don't watch it much anymore
). One year the girls even got my H a pair of Spongebob boxer shorts for Father's Day! I had to warn him not to wear them on a business trip to San Francisco!!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rofl! I think Spongebob Squarepants is funny in small doses. H and kids think it is hilarious! Nik is baned in our house...too much back talking when they watch it. But I can tell you all about Witches of Waverly Place and Demi Lovato is as close to a Goddess in our house as they come! lol

and I am worried that you are going to crash. If I am off base, please accept my apologies.

No, I can feel it. I know it is going to happen. i am almost steeling myself for it. I almost want it, as sick as that sounds. I want to let loose and just scream and cry and have a fit and feel it all again, you know? I feel so numb and we don't talk about it. I need to remember it happened.

Do you really think he knows what to do? When I tell him, he seems to do it. But seems so unsure when not told. Looks at me all sheepish like what the hell do I do? Is he fooling me? Does he really simply not want to meet my needs or does he not know how?

Much of this can be resolved with me simply asking. I don't want to ask (said as a 4 year old stomping her foot at the same time). I want him to figure it the hell out. We have a lot to talk about. We really need to have that talk soon.

A neighbor is having a tastefully Simple part the night of dday. i think I am going to go. Just for a half hour or so. A break form the tension. He can put the kids to bed and get them settles and ready for my freak out. lol


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 4:05 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why does it take a fit for you to do anything. He just shrugged. He never has an answer.


OMG- That's WH and it kills me. I tell him- DO NOT buy me flowers or write a letter AFTER I tell you I feel unloved because I never get those things. I try to nicely tell him- remind him of meeting needs, wait a while to see what happens, if he will do something on his own and then we go right back where I have to ask & ask some more. ((HUGS)) I SO feel ya there.

Whatnow, sounds like you really know what you want as far as boundaries with pron

I think about this still, the porn issue. And it seems like such an easy request- I have stated my request (for him not to look) with valid reasons and he since D-day has looked twice & lied about it. HOW hard is it to let go of porn? I know it's not a big deal to him- but it is to me. And, it seems like he gets angry/frustrated with me and that gives him the "entitlement" to do whatever the fuck he wants. That's what he said the next morning- "I didn't feel like telling you". Whatever.

Wow, Whatnow. This is a major night. Are you both ready to reclaim this night? Have you and H spoken about it?

About 20 mins ago on the way home from the grocery store I talked to WH about it. Asked if he thought she would be there- or had thought about that possiblity. he hadn't of course. We talked about the last 2 years and how I don't understand her interest...feelings, etc. He again stated he believes she totally knew & understand that WH & I were his "real life" and she was just extra, or plan B. So...he doesn't think she would have felt too strange hanging out with me. So...we'll see. It's in a fairly large auditorium, I'm in Maine so it's not like we have large arenas....

Remember, shoulders back, boobs out, chin high...march on

I had to LOL at this. I can laugh about it but I have always HATED my boobs- I had to wear a bra in 5th grade and was tortured by the boys, my sisters, etc. Now, I feel like they are saggy, too big (DD's), just horrible. OW#2 ALWAYS ALWAYS had her boobs hanging out of her bra & shirt and she LOVED, just ADORED her breasts so....now I have even more issues with my boobs. LOL. Just lovely, LOL.


i am almost steeling myself for it. I almost want it, as sick as that sounds. I want to let loose and just scream and cry and have a fit and feel it all again, you know

I totally know. It is stange to want to be there sometimes- but I think it's therapeutic. Sometimes I think i'm not focused on it enough- it was a big fuck up on his part. The repercutions (sp?) are life long. We're a few months behind you on D-day and we still talk about it in some aspect daily.

OT- I love tastefully simple- I've been wanting to make some beer bread actually.

My kiddos are still too young for the older shows. We're still into Dora & Diego. They're both napping right now- DS#1 doesn't really nap anymore but he fell asleep in the car so I felt him in there, parked in the garage with the doors open so I can hear him. I'm enjoying my 5 minutes of uninterrupted posting time. Gotta go do my hair & get ready for my mom to arrive to babysit.


Have a good evening everyone!


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, October 18th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS - I hope that reading the thread on "bouncing back" didn't upset you. In fact, I was a little hesitant at first to recommend this thread but after thinking about it, I felt there were some responses that might be helpful to some of us.
First I'd like to say that the term "bouncing back" is very inappropriate in our case because as you say, the depth of the betrayal we have experienced is so much greater than most. For us, it's not a matter of bouncing back, it's a matter of slowly working our way back every day to a place where we can once again find our inner joy, be at peace with our life, find love again whether that is with our S, or perhaps by moving on. More than anything for me it is finding my joy and then being able to fully experience the love that is in my life, that brings me the most happiness and this for me is the joy I feel when I am with my sister, my children and my grandson. So for me, there were some responses that I personally believe to be true and ones that I think can help us as we work toward our recovery. This one in particular makes so much sense to me:
Whenever we go through a traumatic event such as death of a loved one, illness, infidelity, or for some even the loss of their job it all has an effect on our worldview. Maybe we don't trust as easily as we once did. Maybe we question God's existence. Maybe we turn it off and not deal with it.
It challenges our belief system, our morals, etc...
I've worked with people who suffer these types of events and from what I see, alot has to be credited to their support system. Don't get me wrong, the healing has to start within but I do see a big difference in those who have others to lean on. Now whether in this case it is a very remorseful spouse, SI, MC, IC, etc... the combinations will always vary.

I can honestly say that had I not had the support of my sister, my children, my friends and the support of HIS family and our mutual friends who were aware of his LTA, I know I would not be as far along in my recovery as I feel I am today.
One of the most effective means of snapping my H out of his self-indulgent, entitled fog was his having to look into the eyes and faces of those whom he had to answer to once the discovery was made known to them, especially those of our children. This is a unique and extremely critical form of support in the beginning. For those of you who may not have been able to take advantage of this avenue, snapping a LTA WS out of the fog can be difficult. They have lied to us for so long, it's most likely second nature to them so many continue to lie and false R is the result. And they have lied to themselves for so long, telling themselves they are entitled, they're not hurting anyone, this is just sex and I respect my wife too much to ask her for the things my AP will do for me, etc., ad nauseum. But after they are faced with exposing their true nature to those they love and need, e.g., lying directly to their children, to their family (his brother in our case), to his partner of 15 years, to our closest friends who told him how disappointed they were in him, well I don't believe anyone is capable of deception to that degree. Because when they are forced to look into the faces of their innocent victims, to the people who respected them and trusted them and their goodness, they get to feel for the first time the total extent of the damage and it crushes them. My H literally collapsed onto the floor and I thought for an instant that he was having a heart attack. The impact of their reaction to him was immense. And every other person that was told held him to full accountability. He could no longer lie to himself. I honestly, truly believe that it was because of our support system that my H no longer wanted to be that lying, cheating, self delusional bastard that he was during those years and has been working so hard to become the kind of man I need him to be, his children need him to be and he needs to be for himself and those he most loves and respects in our world.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
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Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:52 AM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning. I'm feeling a little better. Sorry I didn’t get back yesterday. I was so emotionally drained that after getting dinner (pasta, all I could cope with) I fell asleep against FWH on the sofa. How do I feel about telling him OW’sBH and I met? Not sure. He’s asked if we’re going to meet again, but I said unlikely. He seemed to want to brush over it, fix his wife and be more attentive to her needs in the future. I don’t think there is any more to be gained.

H has “owned his shit” from the start. The morning after dday, his BF warned him to tell me everything and answer all questions as honestly as possible. To be completely open and hide nothing or I would never believe anything he said ever again. It took two weeks before I could bring myself to ask him to tell me about the affair from start to finish. He was fairly honest, but shrank it all down. Didn’t see her that often, sometimes for months, he didn’t love her, she pursued him, they’d had sex somewhere between 30 and 50 times in the whole five years, blah, blah lies. It took a year to get 75% of the truth and I reckon I have 85-90% now. He was shocked, but not surprised that OW had kept copies of emails and texts. And expected her H to go into stealth mode before confronting her. I think FWH has actually erased some memories. He still says the meeting and shopping at Stratford didn’t happen, although she said that was what she enjoyed. Whatever.

I do not trust him with my heart at all

I don’t think about whether or not he will cheat again. He’s not now, but the whole thing about being totally blindsided means I don’t trust him to look out for or look after me ever again. He put himself up to be a man with high moral standards, honest, the kind of guy who would watch your back, who would batter a door down to rescue someone in a house fire, plays fair on the sporting field, who is playful with kids and reminisces with the old, a respected colleague and friend, a good father to his children, provider for his family and a wonderful husband to his wife. He seemed to have it all. Now though, it’s not a case of me ever thinking he’s lying about where he is, I just don’t register it as a truth or a lie, it’s whatever he says. If he does lie, he’s lying to himself. It kind of washes over me. Maybe I don’t care.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:21 AM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whatnow – have you talked about those porn boundaries yet? If it’s an issue, it should be resolved otherwise it’ll just keep floating around in the background like a bad smell. I read LostH’s link too. Very good, not relevant to me, but an excellent article. As to OW possibly turning up, I hope she wasn’t so stupid as to even think about it.
"I didn't feel like telling you". Of course he didn’t, he felt guilty about doing it. How to not feel guilty? Don’t do it. Tell him to stop acting like a sulky schoolboy, cos that’s just what he sounds like!

SoL, tell him what you want doing. Eventually he’ll pick up and if not, just carry on asking. I remember reading “those” books trying to get some sort of communication and understanding with WH a couple or three yrs before dday and one said to use “would” rather than “could”. To use the word “would” is a request, “could” is more of a demand. So, “if you’d like to do something for me, would you get that ice pack from the freezer, wrap it in a tea towel and put it on my back please?” When I did that sort of thing with WH, it (whatever the it was) just got done, I said thank you and for a while, things were better. Although I don’t like to go back and analyse his behaviour during that time too much!

As to dday, you may not know how you’re going to be until the day is over, if that makes sense! Sometimes the dread and anticipation is worse than the happening day. Ride with your emotions. But just one question – what’s a “tastefully Simple”?

For us, it's not a matter of bouncing back, it's a matter of slowly working our way back

Too true. And as for others knowing what has happened to us, I needed his parents to know. It took a year, but I had to knock him off that pedestal they had him on, esp his mother. It was all to do with other family issues surrounding his brother and family. But I dread my children ever knowing. I don’t know how they’d react and it’s too awful to contemplate. If we’re not going to split, I can’t see the point.

And LostH – how are YOU today? Not too wrapped up in that ins form filling, I hope.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning everyone. I've been quiet on the board for a few days. But boy yesterday I could have used someone to talk to. Unfortunately H was on the computer at the time so I had to make due with one of my visualization CDS. Didn't help much.

We are the freaking Bickersons anymore. I know part of it is sexual frustration on my part, which then leads to my thinking that I'm not good enough or desireable enough for him, so I get hypersensitive. Had a lovely shower together yesterday morning which lead no where. Then he starts hammering (that's how it feels) with questions about my transcription work... how much I make, am I getting any faster at it, how this "friend" of our used to have macros set up, did I? Why didn't I try her software instead of working in Word. So he asked me the last question "Do you think you're getting faster at it?" and I stop to think "WTF? How could I NOT be getting faster after 4 months?" and he storms off that I'm not even able to have a normal conversation any more. I told him I admit to analyzing a lot of what he asks because he's going somewhere with this line of questioning, but I don't know where and I have to make sure any more that I'm actually answering his questions because he freaks if I give the "wrong" answer and says I'm not listening to him. That he's just trying to have a conversation. Later he made a comment that finally clarified what he'd been getting at. He said "I didn't bring this up before, well, because you USED to have a job." (My company cut my hours.) So it's about finances.

Instead of coming to me like an adult and asking "do you think you can make more money at this typing? Otherwise, we need to discuss how we're going to make it on my salary, what cuts we can make, etc." No, he has to circle the subject for days until I scream.

So we go see friends yesterday and eat. Around 8:30 he says to me "have you given any thought to dinner?" I said "well, at this hour no. I made some soup, I figued we could have that." So he stomps around looking for a tv dinner and our downstairs freezer is full of diet food for our D, she takes them for lunch every day. Which brings up another "issue" that we can't afford to be buying her this stuff and how much does it cost. I told him she pays for it. But he didn't buy it.

We eat soup and watch a terrific movie on tv. He compliments my soup, but that I didn't make enough... AGAIN. I sit next to him, thinking ok, no issues, there's plenty of soup. The movie hits a rather touching part where the son tells his father he's his hero and H starts to snuffle. I immediately think "yep, you'll never hear that from your son because you f'd that up too." And sadly, I felt good about his misery.

I went to bed and waited up for him, asked him to snuggle and he says he would, but my feet are cold and I refuse to wear socks, so no. I said "you're making excuses again, blaming me." Of course he doesn't see it that way and turns over in a huff saying "you always make everything into a federal case." I get up and take a valium. Great life.

Today he's off doing a side job because (as he told our friends) SOMEONE has to make money in this house. I'm taking DD out to look for a dress for the wedding and thought I might be able to find one that doesn't need alteration like the one I have now. Well, that turned into another "weepy, you just can't do anything right" discussion... how I should find a place to alter it, when I asked where, he said "you're probably too late anyway to have it ready."

Oh, and I swear like a sailor any more. Never used the "F" word, now it drops into every argument, every sentence of the argument. There is no question I don't want THIS marriage, but I've tried being the "mature" one and it doesn't seem to help. Like I told my IC, I can be as "mature" as I need to be, but if I keep running into a 4 year old on the other side, it can't work. I turn into his MOTHER, not a mature reasonable person, someone who's either "better" than him which causes a problem or "telling him what to do" which causes a problem.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what’s a “tastefully Simple”?

It's one of those brands that sells through parties...like Tupperware or DiscoveryKids. Only all kinds of foods and dips and such. Their beer bread is yummy...just add a bottle of beer and bake. Plus horseradish dip and all sorts of other things that you add mayo and sour cream to! lol

Weepy, before I got to the end of you r post I kept thinking how you sound like his mom. I'm sensitive to that b/c that seems to be our problem as well. He just seems so unwilling to try. And yet at other moments I really feel like he loves you. It must be so confusing. What would happen if you just sat him down and said listen, please don't be defensive, but I need to tell you how I have been feeling. Would he hear any of it?

Had a talk with H last night. I was not feeling positive. At one point he said, it seems like you don't want to do this anymore and I shrugged. He said he felt like not talking about it was better. He knows I have said it's not, but he still does not want to ruin any potential moods by bringing anything up. Said he does sometimes think how sorry he is but never relates that to me inless I bring it up. Honestly, we didn' talk much although he was willing. I just suddenly seemed to have so little to say. I did tell him I'm tired of being the one to ask, I'm just done doing it. He needs to make an effort. At the end I said I do want this to work. And he said But.... I said no but, I want it to work. And he said okay then, let it work. We can do this.

Then I check keylogger this morning and he went on Everquest and talked about how what a bad mood he's in b/c his wife was bitching and he had to have a drink and his wife is nagging and bitching etc. Umm, what???? Is that all crap or is that the way he feels? He does lie on there. I have seen him say a kid is sick or he has somewhere to go just to make an excuse to not play. Clearly his default is lying and that is hard to take.

7 year old must have been really sick yesterday morning even though he was fine all day. 101 fever and vomiting today. Poor baby. Off to lie on the couch with him!


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, October 19th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What would happen if you just sat him down and said listen, please don't be defensive, but I need to tell you how I have been feeling. Would he hear any of it?

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

His defensive posture is default, like the lying.

And like your H, he probably goes around telling everyone what a bitch I am and how he HAS to get home or I'll pitch a fit. It's about not taking responsibility for your own choices.

I mean, what's wrong with saying "I wasn't on earlier because I didn't FEEL like being on earlier." YOu know, he's afraid to hurt someone's feelings, or feels like he has to play the victim or because it's "fun" to fool other people.

We were at this party yesterday and he starts telling people that his older brother hit him on the head with a cast iron pan when they were younger. And that he threw him off a roof. I'm just sitting there pretending I don't even hear it. When he's got nothing to "outdo" someone, he just makes it up. He feels inferior, so he has to grandoise his life. My GF looked at me while he was relating this story and I just shook my head no. She shook her head in pity.

You think if ONE of them could actually face/say what they're feeling, thinking or be real any of this would have happened?

Hope the little one feels better. I would do what you're going to do and H would have a fit that I was babying them, or risking getting sick myself. A child NEEDS that kind of caring, no someone who freaks out when they sneeze. They have to feel accepted no matter what or they wind up screwed up like me "Ms. People Pleaser" who's afraid to show they're weak, or scared or sick and risk non-acceptance.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


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