I am so very sorry. You need to decide what is good for you. Then follow through. You have to be ready. Try not to do it in anger.
The first time, I confronted Mr. OLB, I had the preacher here - I wanted to make sure I had a witenss to me not yelling and screaming. It has also worked great to put things in writing.
I have yelled.
Of course, as you can see in my earlier post, we are still going around in circles, so I may not be the best to advise you, but I do know that 'I' am getting stronger.
He just doesn't seem to be getting it at all, huh. I just don't understand why they have to keep so many secrets bottled up. I mean, you already know some pretty disturbing stuff, what would he have to lose if he just came completely clean with you?
Is he still doing any of the meetings or counseling? And did you confront him about the OW?
Hang in there, I know it is another awful shock for you.
I wrote this in JFO
Yeah, I confronted him.
Yeah, he's just not getting it. At this point, I'm not sure he will. But I do know that it's still pretty new. He's only had one IC session and will have another tomorrow. He's still going to his meetings. He was just thinking to himself, "look how much progress I've made. It's not as nearly bad as before." I told him that I wanted a 100% marriage. Not 99 and 1% to the OW. I want it all. I don't care if it's better or not. I want 100% commitment. I didn't sign up for an open marriage. I didn't sign up for a marriage where I would become the OW and his OW get all the attention and love that I should be getting.
But then he wouldn't even talk to me about how I was feeling. I know that he can't offer me the support that I need when he's so broken himself. So that is why I'm beginning to think that maybe I should just be by myself healing by myself anyway. It's so painful living with an oblivious person. I just no longer feel very hopeful at all.
Don't feel you have to do anything immediately. Your SA is still very new at the healing part also. I just read sexaholics anonymous, it is a very good book, and I think it would be a great support group--is that where your H is? You said he was raised Christian, and what he has been doing totally splits him off from his God. Sexaholics Anonymous can get him back--he has probably split himself inside and he needs to work very hard to be whole again. Also, the book gives some examples and a lot of them fall off from time to time as they are working the steps (just like giving up alcohol and smoking), but as long as he goes back and makes a real effort, it is good. And another part I liked is that he doesn't have to believe in it at first, he just has to do it, once he takes the steps and works the program, the beliefs and feelings will come.
There is also a website called RecoveryNation, I looked into that one a month or two back, and I liked a lot of what they had to say.
As for you, look into something like Cosa, so you can get yourself back. I just joined it yesterday, and have my first meeting tomorrow, and I will let you know how it goes. Because no matter what our spouses do, we can only control ourselves and our reactions to them. And I want to be strong enough to handle whatever comes my way.
If you do decide you want to work at R, try really hard to remember this is an illness (I am a great one to speak because I have been angry and triggering a lot lately), but we have to remember it is a symptom of their inner emptiness, and really has nothing to do with us. It is their sickness, and they are not happy being sick, and it is hard to change after being the same way for years and years and years. My H has been using the same escape since he was 7, that is almost 40 years, and he was given this disease by his dad, who passed down his nasty sickness on my H.
Whatever happens, we are here for you--keep us posted!
Well, the whole ONSs is new but the rest of it is not. He had a serious online relationship last year and a couple of other ones this year but talking to lots of people. He's not really in love with them, I know. He just needs that in love feeling. So this this part is new but I've known something was wrong for a long time. But it doesn't really matter. I just have to have my boundaries and stick to them.
We are both going to Celebrate Recovery, it's a Christian 12 step recovery and mine is not but it's like cosa. It's WASA (women affected by someone else's sexual addiction). So I've been going there on and off for 2.5 years. I took a break while preg because I felt so ill and so depressed.
I really appreciate everyone here. It's wonderful to have the hugs and support.
I am not going to make any emotional long-term decisions right now. I just know that if I didn't have the girls to think about, I would have left a long time ago. I just deserve so much better.
I do know that it's a sickness. And I'm very understanding of that part. I just feel so hurt so much of the time that I feel like such a terrible mother when I can't deal with all this stuff going on.
My WH got this legacy from his father also. I'm very sorry that your WH also has this for so long of his life. That makes it especially tough to deal with since there aren't any good coping skills in place at all. Seven is just so very young. That's just tragic.
That makes it especially tough to deal with since there aren't any good coping skills in place at all.
The graphic was a see-saw and on one side was stress, and on the other was values. If someone's values are weak, or under developed, they will add addiction to balance the stress piled on the other side. Here's the link to the page (it's in the SA's workshop) http://www.recoverynation.com/recovery/m2w1d3.htm
I found it fascinating... and if one was introduced to this dysfunctional stress relief BEFORE they could develop adult values - TA DA! Sex Addiction. Bleh.
However, I'm bit worried about what'll happen after we're back together as a family again. I'm afraid that he may have slip ups as he'll once again have unlimited internet access. When think that he might slip up, I think of the pattern that led to his As. I'll have a hard time having sex with him knowing that he looked at porn. Should I leave if that happens? What are you all doing in these situation when your spouses slip up?
I doubt that I would leave just for looking at porn, but I would consider it seriously if he starts to escalate, or uses the porn to avoid intimacy with me, and does not recognize the problem or try to do something about it. But in my case, any more porn and he is off to counseling, and probably a 12 step program. Because he has told me it is not a problem, so if he does it, then he lied.
He especially looked at porn when I'd refuse to have sex with him and he'd use that to get off.
I'll have to look into those porn blockers. Do anyone know of any good ones? I had a keylogger but that didn't block any sites, it only kept track of online activity. I'd like to keep him from looking at those sites all together. It was just painful to look at the keylogger seeing when he screwed up.
Momofthree, I don't think I would leave bc the porn if he's trying to get help. I agree with NA-meetings are a good idea. I think in some groups there is a system in which they monitor each other's use.
[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 6:43 AM, December 9th (Tuesday)]
Today I told her about the extent of WS's SA ... I told her it very likely all grew out of guilt for the very first time he visited a prostitute and he has just added on more and more to beat himself up over through the years... up until this last LTA with the preying skanktis (well she wasn't a preying mantis... or WAS she? How about a preying on-mantis? Gawd, I don't know!) Anyway.
Whoopie for him, he is a SA and woe is me I'm straight, monogamous and completely turned off now that I know all this sh!t.
The favorite therapy question of "Where do you see your marriage in 6 months...?" Well, the toilet is a start. Then the septic tank. Then the deep dark bowels of the earth. Maybe even Hell, eventually. (sigh)
Today (and since 2 December) I just don't really see "R" in our future. Not fully -- not what I call marriage.
He made the choice. Then he made it again. And again. And again. And again. ... ad nauseum...
Is wondering whether he'll make the same choice and betray me again how I want to spend MY next 30 years? Not today.
We had some awesome times in our lives, and there will be great future events like our kids' weddings, grandbabies and the like. We'll share those moments... but I simply do not... CAN not see us spending those connected -- united as one body, mind and spirit -- ever again. And I don't even want to.
PS - edited because I'm goofy.
[This message edited by invictus at 7:51 PM, December 8th (Monday)]
If mine looked at porn, and then told me, I wouldn't consider it a relapse, since his main problem is lying. One of my core values is honesty, and if he was honest, even in the case of a ONS, I would probably be OK.
You need to focus on what your core values are (just like he does) - and that will help you clarify your boundaries. That's why I like the Recovery Nation program so much - it really helped define my values.
Last week, our counselor told me that my DH is "intimidated by me" and when he gets "mad at me" instead of confronting me - he will find other ways to hurt me.
Like in Oct when he texted one of his 'girls' and told her he loved her and missed her.
It wasn't meant for me to find out - it was sort of like a waiter spitting in a patron's food - the waiter "knows" but the patron doesn't.
Unfortunately, according to the counselor, we will go thru this a few more times until he learns to talk to me.
ALSO - he said that my husband DOESN'T TRUST ME.
I'm like *HE* doesn't trust *ME* ? Are you fucking kidding? and the counselor explained that he doesn't trust the fact that if he comes to me with an issue that I won't throw it back in his face ... unfortunately, I can't promise that I won't make 'smart' comments.
I mean .. really .. he's got a lot of damn nerve.
Have any of you ever heard anything like this ?
My WS has used similar rationalizations for not telling me stuff. He has childhood abuse issues and complains about an inability to deal with other people's anger (but gets angry with me just fine).
Here's what I have to say to your MC and WS:
HE'S A GROWN MAN! HOW ABOUT HE STOPS ACTING LIKE A SULLEN TEENAGER CAUGHT WITH A SPRAY PAINT CAN AT SCHOOL? GROW UP!
Intimidated my freaking ass.
We had a MC for YEARS during my H's A and all the massage parlor stuff - where I was blammed for EVERYTHING. THEN when it all came out, I WAS STILL BLAMED FOR EVERYTHING!!!
Poor, mean OLB.
I finailly fired the MC - told him he was doing me and our marriage NO GOOD encouraging the SOB. I told Mr. OLB that he could continue with him is he wanted for IC, but if he wanted to be married to me, WE were going to a new MC - a Christian one. So he continued and continued to spiral down - added more porn, prostitues, and even (gag) moved to the BEACH. Our teenage children were horrified -- one told me she was so glad I was staying is our 'regular' home and not some condo at the beach. This behaviour was encouraged!!!
WE started with the new MC - next blow up, Mr. OLB finially fired the former MC/IC.
He was encouraging Mr. OLB to 'feel'. It was total Bull. Our MC is tough - on both of us...and is not afraid of Mr. OLB. He also encourage accountability - which is one of the reasons I insisted on a Christian counselor (who, btw, has experience in addiction because I suspected we were dealing with SA, though I was not sure at the time)
I would highly encourage you to either get a new MC, or at the very least your own IC.
Last Jan. 2nd at our new MC, Mr. OLB expressed a need for "emomtional security". I'm like WTF?
But I tried.
After our session, we went for coffee and had a wonderful, emotional, talk.
I found out later he had called OW between our session and our coffee...so the 'emotional security' was basically let me do whatever the hell I want and tell me how wonderful I am even when I am f***ing with my family, my job, my salvation and everything I hold dear.
They want to be told how great they are even when they are screwing up. HELLO -- would you let one of your children jump off a cliff because they WANTED to???? Heck no - you'd tell them it would hurt them because you LOVE them! Love doesn't mean letting people hurt themselves!
I need to go walk....
He was encouraging Mr. OLB to 'feel'.
Oh yeah! Our old IC/MC was very good at so very many things. But he fell short when it came right down to it. This is the one that fired my H because H would not be persuaded that Christianity was crap and hold to his belief in something different.
I wrote to this counselor to express my concerns. He answered me, I answered him and he answered back. He is so unprofessional on so many levels, including replying to me in email. He eventually phoned H and started by chuckling, thinking H would be taken in by his cutesy 'little boy' act; which he uses all the time.
He was unprepared for H to decline his offer of a free counseling session.
Anyway, in addition to the above, this counselor was encouraging that my SA H and I masturbate together; not to each other, but on our own side by side. He also encouraged H to 'feel', literally and otherwise. He told H that when he, the councilor masturbates, he feels himself all over, molesting himself IOW to feel good about himself and his body. OY!!
FWH is aware enough now to see the dangerous side of this IC/MC. He gratefully declined any further sessions with him. I have shared this stuff with a co-worker; the head of the Addictions Counselling program at my college. IC/MC was her student at one time. She is totally aghast and disappointed by him. She says that we should keep the emails shared between him and I. She also says this is what happens when a relatively new counselor does not have appropriate supervision. The clinic where he works is not adequately supervised according to this lady. In addition, the last sessions we had with him were in his home. She said this happens so often. IC/MCs in their own home doing their own thing. Someone is going to get really hurt by this guy and they are going to sue. He needs to get his ego in check.
yeah, invictus, totally turned off here too. I am hoping some attraction will come back at some point, I guess we will have to wait and see. I used to have a hard time keeping my hands off him, but now I don't really want him to touch me at all. Yuck. Maybe I'll learn a little more compassion in COSA, who knows?
HoBeGone--you had an idiot for a MC! My WS used that stupid excuse also, for his letter to the escort where he wrote: "if the price is right, maybe we can get together, blah blah blah...." He told me he was angry at me for not trying harder to get moved down there with him. While I was back here at the home, working my butt off, taking care of 3 kids, a part-time job, getting the house ready for sale, saving money to hire a lawyer (for the move), etc.....
And, he also wants a condo on the beach. Well, that was always my dream, but so happened that every once in a while, they go topless at this public beach. I told him I didn't want to go there. Gross. I can just see him now, with his telescope. He is still wanting to look for condos at the water. If we can find one at a canal, okay. But knowing what I know now, no way are we going to live with a parade of sex addiction objects running around in front of him. I am thinking I would rather him move back here to the midwest and we be poor, than for me to move down south with him--they don't seem to have the same values, there is so much sleaze very readily available, makes me uncomfortable. I know if he is going to act out, he can do that anywhere, but there, it is in front of his face constantly. And an uncomfortable reminder for me. Here, they tend to wear a bit of clothes, even in the summer. I never used to be a prude. I guess I'm still pretty traumatized.
1F1B - I remember you talking about this nut (oh, I mean counselor) before. I really don't think he will last long, I am sure he will be sued because he is going to really mess some people up!
If I can get my WS into counseling, it will be a CSAT. They are supposed to know what they are dealing with, but I will interview him first and make sure he shares the same values and ideas on this addiction.
When we were deciding to get married, we decided on a cruise. We even booked it. How romantic, I thought. Then we got this house and had to cancel the cruise, because we didn't have money for both, but it was okay, I wanted this house. We did lose $500 though for the downpayment. Okay, I thought, we will do a cruise some other time.
Came to find out, he later told me, what he was really looking forward to on the cruise was for nude beaches. He was thinking he was going to get us to "do it" on the beach in front of others and just see what happened, if anyone else wanted to join in. My blood just ran cold. I think I just blocked it out of my head, like when my XH was telling me he wanted to choke me, and I just blocked it and pretended it never happened, because, ?????
Is this real life? Sometimes I feel like I am living a bad movie or something.