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User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Exclaimation  Posted: 1:12 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NaiveAgain
he has no access to another computer.

That you know of. SAs are nothing if not resourceful. The stories I heard in group were pretty amazing.

The only place he could be viewing is on cable, and I don't get the cable bill, although I do see the deduction in our checking account. The bill is the same every month, so if he bought pay per view it would be a bit more.

You have no idea what he watches and believe me he doesn't have to buy PPV to find things that he can act out with on TV. The point here is, YOU DON'T KNOW. And since you don't know you need to protect yourself. Frankly, he doesn't need porn or anything to act out, all he has to do is play back his mind movies. He could have magazines or DVDs too. There are too many bases to cover here.

The boundaries I have right now are: if I find one more bit of porn--he goes into counseling or I leave; he told me no more because it hurt me, so if he does it again he either wants to 1. hurt me on purpose, ...

Odds are better than not that he's "using" some form of "porn" right now and you haven't left him. Or is it that it's okay as long as you don't CATCH him? (I can almost guarantee that this is what he thinks. "As long as I'm really careful and she doesn't catch me, everything will be ok." This is not an enforceable boundary. You've made a threat. Will you REALLY leave? REALLY? I know I threatened that constantly but the reality was I couldn't leave him (nowhere to go and no money to go with) and he knew it. He knew it was an empty threat. Plus, why wait? Why wait until you catch him acting out. Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he's not acting out right now, he is still a sex addict who is NOT in recovery. He WILL act out. He either is now or he will. Period. You said it yourself:
he has an illness he can't control.

Yes, he does. No ifs ands or buts about it. So again, why wait for the inevitable?

It's true that my boundaries include statements about porn and acting out but that is because my husband is over 2 years SOBER and in recovery. These boundaries are to protect me IF he relapses not WHEN. I don't think he will but I have to have things in place just in case. That is a hugely different place than where you are now.

Back to your boundaries. You haven't set boundaries and consequences, you're trying to control the situation. You're trying to control him. You're negotiating with an out of control addict.


"If you look at porn you have to go to counseling, or else..."
How are you going to enforce that? Are you going to force him into a car and take him there?

And,

"If I see one more call to an escort..."

"...I'll leave you!"
That's not a consequence, that is a threat unless you're really going to leave...but again, what are you waiting for? (Not to mention that he doesn't have to use his cell phone to call. He can use a phone you can't check. And let's face it, if he wants to act out he can pick one up on the street or go to a massage parlor or a strip club. Why limit this to "if you call?" That doesn't protect you.

Hon, you're waiting for him to bend to your control and it's not going to happen. Either that or you hope that he can just be "cured" because he feels bad. It doesn't work that way. In fact, because he feels bad (and I'm sure he does) he's MORE likely to act out again because that's the way the cycle works.

Read this webpage.
http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/page14.html
Then read it again. And again.

My personal opinion is that your first boundary needs to be about him getting into recovery. You cannot force him obviously and if you're not willing to set a heavy consequence and stick to it while also surrendering the outcome, then you are simply not ready to have boundaries. You're not ready to break this codependent cycle and that's okay. You're not going to do this until you're ready.

At some point I will be tired of dealing with this and he will get that speech. But I am not ready for it yet, because there is the ultimatum and I have to really be ready to go.

The thing is you can set boundaries and consequences without having "leave" as a consequence since you're not ready to (or perhaps your circumstances are such that you can't.)

You're living apart right now right? You go to visit him? You could stop going to visit him. If you have to take your kids to see him, you can make sure that it is a "co-parent" visit only. No intimacy of any sort and you're certainly not there to cook, clean, do laundry etc. You can set healthy boundaries that give you space and safety without actually leaving the marriage. This not a good long term solution but it is a reasonable one right now. People would call this "doing the 180 on him."

Here's one way you could set a boundary that he get help for his SA.

If you continue to deny you have a problem with sexual addiction.

I will no longer be a full partner in this marriage. I will no longer travel to see you. We are roommates and co-parents. Nothing more. I will not share a bed with you (or be sexual with you in any way.) I will not be your maid. I will care for myself and our children and you must care for yourself.

So, anyway, after all this rambling, my bottom line is this: your boundary needs to be about your safety and you are not safe in a relationship with an addict who is not in recovery. Your boundaries need to start there, not with specifics about porn etc.

Make sense?
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PlanB
I know that I am being stupid- just grasping for anything that reminds me of how it used to be.

You are NOT stupid. You're in a new situation and you don't understand the far reaching consequences yet. That does not make you stupid. It makes you human.

I gave him complete trust, thinking that everything was fine.

As we all did, hon. I was completely clueless and completely trusting for at least 6 years.

Well- I have figured out that it's my turn to live my life for me! I am jogging again (boy it's hard to get back into it) and it really helps clear my head. I am going to go back to school, and actually get my degree. (got married, and stayed home with the kids before I graduated) My focus right now is to stay healthy, exercise, and do things for myself. I am preparing myself for anything. My focus is to get my degree, get a job (haven't worked in 12 years) pay off our debt, not create any new debt, start a savings account for myself, finish this darn house, so then if it doesn't end up working out- we can sell it.

This is FANTASTIC. No, seriously, it really is fantastic. Self care is one the hardest things for us to do and you're ON it. That's perfect!! Keep that up.

Good to hear that you're both going to counseling. Are your counselors familiar with sex addiction and codependency?

One little nit-picky thing...he should have made his appointment himself!!! You're not his mother. If he wants to get into recovery and get sober he needs to put on his big boy pants and take care of these things himself. That said, I hope you found a CSAT. If you didn't, you should give him the information on how to find one and set that as a boundary. He needs to find a CSAT and make an appointment for himself.

Boundary work is really hard, you might want to work individually with your counselors and that before you try to "combine" them. And frankly, you can't combine them. I just realized that. This is not something that is a "group" exercise. You need to set and enforce your boundaries and he needs to do the same...individually. First and foremost he needs to set boundaries and consequences FOR HIMSELF and his SA.

You are mourning and you should. You NEED to. You are mourning the loss of your trust. The loss of your innocence. The loss of your safety. The loss of your illusions. You can't skip that part. But it will get better. You may come to a place where you can separate his addiction from him (I'm there, but it took 3 years) and be able to not see your marriage as a sham. (my words not yours but that's how I felt, I felt like our whole relationship was a lie, a sham)

Wouldn't it be easier if Sexual Addiction wasn't real? Wouldn't it be easier to say that it's just a cover up for bad behavior? I wish it was- because then I wouldn't have a problem leaving. But I feel obligated to stay and see this through- just in case there is hope of reconciliation. Real happiness is what I am hoping for. I don't want to settle for anything less.

Actually, no. I don't. It was harder for me when I did think it was just a cop out. It was much worse for me when I thought he was just a selfish asshole and a liar. Knowing that he has an addiction, that it is a disease just like alcoholism, that made it easier for me to stay as long as he got treatment. But I never felt OBLIGATED to stay and you shouldn't either. If you're staying because you feel obligated and not because you have hope, you're staying for the wrong reasons. Knowing that treatment, recovery and sobriety WAS possible is what made it possible for me to stay. If he was just a lying, cheating, asshole with no reason other than *he just is* then of course it would have been easier to leave, but what about healing? How could I ever heal from that??? Having a diagnosis and knowing that there is hope is a positive thing in my opinion.

Well, I thought I knew him, I thought that I could trust him, and I thought that I could rely on him. Now we have to start over from the beginning.

Right and you should use the RAM (Relationship Attachment Model). You don't know him (yet.) You can't trust him (yet) and you can't rely on him (yet) which is being vulnerable to him...so does it make sense to be sexual with him?

it just felt real. Not just him using me to get off. That's what I meant about it being wonderful.
That is a positive thing, that you felt like he was present but honestly, he is NOT there yet. SA is an intimacy disorder and until he can be emotionally and physically (NON-sexually) intimate with you on a really deep level you have no idea what you're missing out on. When it really happens it will BLOW YOUR MIND. I speak from experience on this. We did the hysterical bonding thing and I thought it was great. It wasn't until my rSA had been sober long enough to have gone through all the withdrawal, get to a healthy sobriety, be in true recovery, and after we did a 90 day abstinence to build healthy non-sexual intimacy, that we finally made love on a whole new level of true intimacy. It was one of the single most moving and amazing things I've ever experienced. I had NO IDEA what had been missing. NONE. Franky, even my telling you this cannot even give you a hint.

I asked told him that I found the phone numbers, and since I didn't recognize the numbers, I looked them up, and told him what I found. He felt HORRIBLE!!! He said that he hadn't called them since d-day. He immediately deleted them, and said that he couldn't believe that he left them there. Okay- now I really want to trust him- but on some level I don't believe him.

He might be telling the truth but he might not. Can you confirm with cell phone bills when he actually did last call those numbers? I would if I were you just so that you are not falling for any gaslighting. (Some would say that is "codependent" and that you shouldn't do it and I say that there have to be exceptions to these "rules" early on when you're still trying to determine your level of SAFETY.)

He also said that he got rid of all of his porn stash

Maybe he did. He very well may have. He's probably done this more than once in his life. It's very common. It's a cycle. My rSA says that he would get disgusted with himself and get rid of everything. Then he'd start building it back up the next time he started back into his acting out cycle. So, he might have but it won't stay gone until and unless he gets into recovery and gets sober. So, take that with a grain of salt, that's all I'm saying.

and he is not on the computer unless I am in the room.

Do you stand (or sit) and stare at the screen the whole time to see what he's doing? Cause if you don't, he could still be visiting inappropriate sites or chatting with people. My rSA and I share a home office. We sat back to back at our desks. He looked at porn and chatted with whores with me IN THE ROOM and I never knew. I never caught him, not once. I am not stupid. I am not unobservant. He was a master at hiding it. If you had asked me at the time if that was even possible I would have been insulted and I would have laughed in your face.

And when I am not home- all of the computers are password protected. I know I shouldn't have to rule with an iron thumb- but he lost the privilege of using the computer.

Are you absolutely 100% that is iron-clad? Just saying.

Right now you're doing what you can to feel safe, and healthy or not, it is what it is. There will come a time when you trying to control him to that extent will just be toxic to you.

Let us know how the counseling appointments go!

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 3:30 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all. I posted an intro in just found out.

I just read the last two pages and scatterings of other ones.

The same thing happened to me with the pregnancy test last year. The test line came up before the control line because I was already 5 or 6 weeks preg. I thought I was having a long cycle.

Also, I just had STD testing on Tues. How do I know if they did enough? Should I get more done and how often? I'm so naive in this, but I didn't know there were ones that you could get even with protection. Now I'm freaking out!


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I have ideas for boundaries?


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 4:27 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hope4tomorrow
Welcome. What tests did they run? Did you explain you needed a full screening because your husband was cheating? Many doctors don't test for everything, I have no clue why. I know there are certain ones you have to specifically ask for but I can't remember which ones.

I will PM you with my list of resources I give to all "just found outs" that will give you a starting point.

7

ETA: I just went ahead and posted the list in your introduction thread instead.

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 4:40 PM, November 21st (Friday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lovedontlivehere
You have to do the work and figure out what you want your boundaries to be. No one can do that for you.

I have offered specific advise and examples but that was to people who were already part way there and had already tried to state some boundaries.

Read through this site:
http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/page14.html

Think about what boundaries you want to set. Figure out enforceable consequences.

Post them here and we'll offer feedback for you.

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 5:00 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, 7! I appreciate your response here and in my intro post. We are going to Celebrate Recovery right now and I know that he'll be doing more meetings, too. They have a 12 step program. We've been there for 2 years and he's still has not helped himself. So I'm just not going to worry about him anymore and just me. I have set some boundaries and I'm just hoping he'll get help. I just can't do this anymore if he doesn't!!!

I know that they did ghonorrhea, chlamydia with a culture; herpes, hep c, hiv and one other through the blood test. I can't remember.

Thank you so much for all your insight and help.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
PoorTwistedMe
♀ Member
Member # 20956
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hope4tommorrow,
so sorry you find yourself here.
Also, I just had STD testing on Tues. How do I know if they did enough? Should I get more done and how often? I'm so naive in this, but I didn't know there were ones that you could get even with protection. Now I'm freaking out!

Relax... ask specifics about the test work-ups. You should have definetly been tested for HPV, HSV, HIV, Trich., Hepatitis , Syph., Chlamydia & Gonorrhea.
And yes, it is Very True that you can contract & pass an STD even using protection. For some STD's, like HPV, HSV, Chlamydia & Gonorrhea condoms offer virtually no protection. With other STD's the use of a condom is safe at an estimated percentage only. Condom manufacturers must now clearly state on their box that "If used properly, condoms will help reduce the risk of transmission of HIV & many other sexually transmitted diseases". This was changed for liability purposes. Condoms only "reduce" (not eliminate)the risk of "many" (not all). Eventhough using condoms is leaps & bounds better than not using them- there is really no such thing as safe sex. That is one of the main benefits of being in a mutually monogamous relationship- living free without fear of contraction of unnecessary disease.
Take Care of You!

[This message edited by PoorTwistedMe at 5:05 PM, November 21st (Friday)]


Twisted

DDay- 14 Aug 08, 16 Sept 08, 22 Sept 08, 7 Oct 08, 27 & 28 April 09
Trickle Truth is Brutality


Posts: 150 | Registered: Sep 2008
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 5:13 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We are going to Celebrate Recovery right now and I know that he'll be doing more meetings, too. They have a 12 step program. We've been there for 2 years and he's still has not helped himself.

They are a general addiction program right? I'm going to be very blunt and say that is never going to work for him. If he wants to get sober he needs to see a CSAT (Certified Sex Addiction Therapist) and attend SA meetings. (not SAA, see my post in your intro for why) His program needs to be specific to sex addiction. If he's been going to Celebrate Recovery for two years and has still not achieved any level of sobriety or recovery, it is my opinion that he has chosen to try to "manage and ENJOY" his addiction. That is not good.

But you are right that that is not your problem and you can only focus on you. However, you can set a boundary and consequences around his lack of recovery. You can set a boundary that you will not consider him to be in recovery until he is doing those two things and make the consequences such that they really get his attention. If he still doesn't get sober, then yes, you are right, you have to decide if you're going to stay with an out of control SA.

ETA: I looked up Celebrate Recovery and I think that another reason it might not be working for him is that they do not really make him take responsibility for his addiction. They don't even call it an addiction. They call it a habit or hang up. Addicts need very specific and sort-of *in your face* language.

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 5:27 PM, November 21st (Friday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
hope4tomorrow
♀ Member
Member # 21673
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Twisted,

Thank you. I think I got tested for all of those. I forgot to ask how long it takes to get the results, though. I was just so embarassed for being there in the first place, although they were very sweet about the whole thing.

7, CR has a meeting just for SA. They have a general mtg for an hour and then everyone goes to their individual groups. I go to a WASA (Women Affected by Someone else's SA) meeting at that time. His problem was that he got to the 4th step and never finished. I don't know why he doesn't finish and get help. He claims he doesn't want to be that person he's become but so far I'm not seeing anything contrary to that. I've basically "forced" him to do the things that he's doing now because he obviously wasn't ready to be done. So hopefully it's a kick in the pants to know that I'm serious and he's going to be gone if he doesn't get help. I would rather be single and raising my girls than live in this hell any longer. It's just pure insanity!! And yeah, he got one 30 day sobriety chip but he lied about it. There aren't any CSATs that I've found in my area. We are seeing a counselor that has his emphasis in that and his old sponsor just got his degree in counseling with this emphasis so he might see him as his IC. He's never had any IC at all. I know that he has never dealt with all his issues in the past that he escapes from with his SA so maybe if he finally gets some help in that area, it will be enough for him to start on the road to recovery.

Thanks again for responding. I feel so much better knowing that I'm not insane with all this.


Me BW
Him WH-SA
Married 12 years
3 Beautiful girls 8 and under

Posts: 346 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Eternaloptimist
♀ Member
Member # 15029
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone,

Welcome to the newcomers. I've been away for 10 days and can't believe how many new names are on this thread. I hate that it makes me feel better because I wish none of us were here -- but misery loves company!! Or at least it makes me feel less lonely.

My family holiday was nice. But I find myself wondering if I'll ever feel really happy again. I was one of those people (rose colored glasses, perhaps) who honestly felt so lucky -- great husband, three healthy kids, career that I love... Then, as we all know, it went to hell in one unbelievable confession. Now, almost two years out from DDay one and 18 months from DDay two, I still find myself fairly numb. Not unhappy...but not happy either. I'm on ADs and have been for about four months now. Losing my mom likely has at least something to do with this suspension of emotion. But if any of you have any tricks to trigger my emotions again, I'd love to hear them. It's like living life wrapped in gauze. I hate it. Having been a mercurial person my whole life (I was either on cloud nine or miserable, depending on circumstances), it's strange to have this void of feeling.

7 -- It's nice to hear your "voice" again. I know how huge a loss that was, but your courage and resilience awe me. And you offer so much to us here.


Me: BS
Him: WS, SA
Married: 12 years
Three kids: 9-year-old D, 7-year-old S, 5-year-old D
D-Day #1: December 11, 2006 (LTA)
D-Day #2: June 17, 2007 (found out about SA)

Posts: 656 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Toronto
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 5:20 AM, November 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can think of two boundaries.

I told him that I'm not going to tolerate him looking up hookers or else I'm leaving. I think I can uphold that one.

I was also thinking about this one-I will have no choice but to inform the proper authorities if he looks at suggestive pictures of a minor ever again.

I don't want him doing online porn anymore either. If he's to the point where he'll search for nude pictures of a 15 year old girl he just doesn't need online porn. I think in his mind since it was a celebrity (if you keep up with gossip you can probably find out who this is) he and possibly a few others are more likely to give him a pass. O and the comments they posted about this girl were just inappropriate on many levels. It disturbs me so much that he would even think about visiting a site like that. And that will include his hardcore sites, looking up nude pictures of celebs (one of his favorite past times), and anything else titillating. I know a few sites he goes to, but I'm just going to assume that what I know is the tip of the iceberg.

I think part of the reason he's in denial is that when he thinks of SA he thinks of Quagmire from Family Guy and the like.


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
HoBeGone
♀ New Member
Member # 21567
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, November 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone!
I'm typing this from my phone - but I really need help.

I haven't read the replies since page 34, but I'm going to do that now :)

Here's my problem -

I think I'm being emotionally abused, but I'm not sure (isn't that crazy?) I mean if it was physical, I'd have no question - but I'm not sure if it's EA or if this is what withdrawl is like.

My husband has been very "bitchy" since this last acting out (about 2 weeks ago - info is in my previous posts/my profile).

He literally "shuts down" and shuts me out. Walks around, not talking to me, when I talk to him, he answers with 1 or 2 words, etc (its like he's doing the 180 on me)

On Sunday of this week, he tells me that he's going to take a bottle of Bacardi that we have lying around (we don't drink) it's brand new and he is going to give it to one of his co-workers.

This co-worker is someone that I've brought up in therapy - and the therapist and I both feel that he needs to "limit" his exposure to her.

She is also a "sex addict" - and about a month ago was asking my H for 'advice' on how to handle her most current relationship.

I asked the therapist "why is it that *I* never get asked those type of questions by my co-workers" - yet everyone talks to my husband about sex.

The therapist told him to "steer clear of her".

Last week he tells me that they (him and her) are going to start going to the gym at work so that he has a "familiar face" to work out with.

We (I was in the car) also stopped by his job to give her a CD that she needed to reformat her computer.

anyway -I told him that I'd rather pour the bottle down the drain that to have him give it to her.

He said it wasn't a big deal since the bottle has been there for 2 years unopened and she could put it to use.

Then on THURSDAY he texts me from work and says "man I could really go for a beer" which is unusual since he doesn't really drink (last time was probably a year or so ago)

I don't say anything - but about 2 hours later he says to me that he's going to go have a beer with "her" since it's her birthday -

I tell him that it's UNACCEPTABLE - but that he's free to do as he wishes -

He's already sleeping on the couch since his 'i love you' texts to one of his APs.

He argues with me about it - and I keep telling him to do as he wishes.

He told me "fine, but don't speak to me when I come home"

Since then, he hasn't spoken to me. This morning he says "I'm leaving" (he was going into work for overtime) and I said "oh so you've made a decision"

and he says to me "no, you made the decision" -

He won't leave, but I don't want to live like this.

Yet, I'm so scared of him leaving :(

I want him to "chase" me. To be contrite and apologetic - except he's being argumentative and "withholding" with me.

I don't know what to do.

In therapy, when things aren't going his way, he will start back that I'm a bad mom. He knows I feel that I am, so it's his way of "shutting me down".

I just want him to "want" me.



Me - 35F - BS - Smart, Beautiful, Faithful
Him - 29M - WS - Asshole, Diagnosed Sex Addict
Son - 5
Together 7.5 years, Married 5.5 years



Posts: 31 | Registered: Nov 2008
HoBeGone
♀ New Member
Member # 21567
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, November 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lovedontlivehere You said :
He has one big boundary-if he even so much as looks at hookers again I'm gone. I told him I wouldn't tolerate that.
That's it. I'm bad with boundaries!

I set this boundary, too - but then realized that *I* wasn't ready for it.

When I caught him "contacting" one of his APs, I threw the air mattress into the living room - and that's where he's been for the past 2-3 weeks.

I knew I wouldn't be able to hold to the "I'm gone" - at least not with just "phone / text" contact. (I think with phyiscal contact I could)

I said all that to say :

Make sure you only create consequences that YOU are prepared to enforce - otherwise, it makes them pretty much useless and the manipulative SAs know that. At least MINE does.


Me - 35F - BS - Smart, Beautiful, Faithful
Him - 29M - WS - Asshole, Diagnosed Sex Addict
Son - 5
Together 7.5 years, Married 5.5 years



Posts: 31 | Registered: Nov 2008
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 2:08 PM, November 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He literally "shuts down" and shuts me out. Walks around, not talking to me, when I talk to him, he answers with 1 or 2 words, etc (its like he's doing the 180 on me)

This sounds a lot like my H. He just shuts down. This morning he left for an all day conference and did not make any attempt to kiss me goodbye. Yet if I tried that when I leave for work every weekday, he'd be insulted.

We had or rather I should say I had, a meltdown this last week. I start to know when he's using and I hold it in. Then I do something stupid, like I did this week. I told him about it a few days later and he shut right down.

I sent him a rather disjointed and rambling email the next morning. He never said a thing about it. Nor did he make any attempt to answer it.

Anyway, I kind of feel like there is more going on than I can find. There is nothing on his computer and I am not turning this house upside down just to find evidence.

I am considering putting a keylogger on his computer. I have told him in the past I have one and will use it if I feel I had to. I'm just not sure I want to bother.

I want him to "chase" me. To be contrite and apologetic - except he's being argumentative and "withholding" with me.

Yeah, me too. I told him in that email that I feel that he has fallen out of love with me and has for some time. No response. What does one do with that?

But you know, I'm just really tired of it all. I'm tired of me and my reactions. I enjoy it so much when he's out of the house like he is today. What does one do with that?

Ah shit, I'm gonna go lie down and read my novel. This is all too complicated for a weekend thought process. I think deep all week at work. Weekends are for totally banal and useless thoughts.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
PoorTwistedMe
♀ Member
Member # 20956
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, November 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This co-worker is someone that I've brought up in therapy - and the therapist and I both feel that he needs to "limit" his exposure to her.

She is also a "sex addict" - and about a month ago was asking my H for 'advice' on how to handle her most current relationship.


This is absolutely unacceptable! No heterosexual SA should be seeking any sort of program "support" from someone of the opposite sex. Ridiculous!

Then on THURSDAY he texts me from work and says "man I could really go for a beer" which is unusual since he doesn't really drink (last time was probably a year or so ago)

I don't say anything - but about 2 hours later he says to me that he's going to go have a beer with "her" since it's her birthday


It is clear that he is being arrogant and is starting to flaunt his deviant attitudes & behaviors right in your face. His involvement with this woman has crossed the line and is directly working against his recovery and the welfare of your reconcilliation. Again, it is totally unacceptable...

My WH goes through bouts of arrogant & thoughtless attitudes, too. Eventhough few & far between, it has taken its toll on me and makes me feel like he doesnt respect the pain I am in (the pain he has put me in). Feels like such a slap in the face. My WH is definetly getting better about it though and when I bring it to his attention (often not politely) that alone usually gets him to stop what he is doing and gain some awareness of the affect his attitude is having on me.


Twisted

DDay- 14 Aug 08, 16 Sept 08, 22 Sept 08, 7 Oct 08, 27 & 28 April 09
Trickle Truth is Brutality


Posts: 150 | Registered: Sep 2008
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 3:07 PM, November 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HBG, I think I can enforce that one.

However, instead of looking up hookers he's looking up women on Yahoo! Personals. I have no idea what he's looking for, but it's not for a drop dead gorgeous woman. He probably couldn't tell me what he was looking for. I don't understand why he's so absorbed in searching for other women. I really believe he's just gone from one form of acting out to another.*shrug*


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
WantingtheTruth
♀ Member
Member # 20889
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, November 22nd (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I suggest you educate yourself about SA just so that you understand why he chose the path he did.

7yrsbetrayed,
Know how much I appreciate your response. You are right -I need to take care of me now.

I am not sure what you mean by my understanding "why he chose the path he did". I have read several books concerning SA but I am personally trying to understand how long was this a part of his life/our life. It is important to me to know how far back my life was full of lies and secrets. It is as if he gets to steal my past and leave me with 20 years of regrets if I cannot determine a timeline for his beginning betrayals and activities outside of our marriage.

Also, are there factors or events that can bring this type of activity and addiction to the surface? Where does this start? What accelerates it?

I am trying to understand all of the implications of what I have lived with and been exposed to. Through therapy, my daughter and I are recognizing the emotional and verbal abuse that we were being exposed to and the control and the manipulation that was a daily part of our lvies. Trying to get to the truth about the problems has been a challenge in his absence. Trying to recreate the past and give it a name and a face has been important to me for several reasons. With no confessions, no remorse from my spouse, healing is so hard and delayed when you are having to get to the truth and to understanding on your own with bits and pieces of the truth from old records.

I can definitely assign the SA descriptor to my spouse but I also see a narcissistic disorder and a love, romance part in addition to the sex addiction. He was having multiple emotional relationships with several women, one in particular, even with all of the other acting out.

I believe I personally need to understand as much as possible to get to a place where I can let it go completely and start really healing. I accept the situation but I have experienced mainly sadness and have not gotten to anger. I think I am looking at this as a sickness as opposed to a choice and this may be what has me hung in sadness. My therapist said I should not be trying to get to understanding of my spouse while in the middle of the divorce process. She said I can only help me.

I need to know as much of the truth as possible and understand what I was dealing with in order to truly heal.

7, you and others trying to work it out with your spouses with SA have my hopes and prayers that it will all be worth what you are going through.

[This message edited by WantingtheTruth at 9:21 PM, November 22nd (Saturday)]


The truth is easy to remember.
BW, 53, Divorcing WH
WH, 49, No truths, in denial
Married 14 years, together 20 years. Who is this man?

Posts: 91 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Georgia
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, November 23rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WantingtheTruth
trying to understand how long was this a part of his life

It's been a part of his life from the very first time he masturbated.
It is important to me to know how far back my life was full of lies and secrets.

He was a sex addict when you met him. When I said "path he chose" I meant in terms of choosing not to get sober and in leaving you rather than face his addiction and get help. So, the answer is, he's always been a sex addict and your life has been full of secrets and lies as long as you've known him. The key here is to understand that he was broken when you got him. You did not break him. You didn't cause his addiction, you did not escalate his addiction, you couldn't have known about his addiction (if he was half as good at hiding it as mine was) and you couldn't have saved him. You might have been able to save yourself had you found out sooner but what's the point in miring yourself down in "what ifs." It is what it is. You cannot change the past, you have to move forward.
Also, are there factors or events that can bring this type of activity and addiction to the surface? Where does this start?

I don't know what books you've read but I'm surprised that none of them addressed this. He is an addict. It's hardwired in his brain. He found sex when he hit puberty and it felt good so that is the addiction he got. He found what worked for him. It could have been food or alcohol or drugs or gambling or stealing or, or, or to infinity. If you can be addicted to it he would have found whatever worked for him. He may have multiple addictions, I'd be surprised if he doesn't. My rSA also has issues with food. That is the most common dual addiction sex/food. My rSA's father has problems with alcohol and gambling (these are the ones we know about but we suspect SA too or at the very least a "love" addiction, the man cannot be alone but he can't make a marriage work either, he's been married 3 times and leaps from girlfriend to girlfriend when he's not married.)
What accelerates it?
Every person will have a different answer for this. Some people say that all SAs were sexually abused as children but that's a load of hooey. My rSA was not. Many of the guys he's met in group were not. That can be the case but is NOT always the case. One common thing that seems to anecdotally be the case is that SAs have very screwed up families. Common factors: distant, absent or abusive father and enmeshment with mother. My rSA has both, his dad was emotionally distant and his mother way over-shared about her relationship with his dad. She was also emotionally distant so it's all kinds of messed up. He is the oldest and took on a lot of extra responsibility. He also always felt like an outsider because he didn't fit the rural Montana, hunting/ranching mold. He's extremely intelligent and would rather spend his time learning and reading, his family couldn't understand that and gave him all manner of crap for it. So that's a very broad picture of what family of origin issues can look like for a SA.

Let's narrow it down to a specific escalation. I am my rSAs second wife. He did not physically cheat on his first wife. He did have a bit of a porn habit and he did masturbate a lot and he did have sexual anorexia when it came to having sex with her but he was "faithful." Their marriage fell apart (due in part to his SA but neither knew that was why and his exwife has more issues that National Geographic and that contributed to the failure of the marriage as much as anything else.) So when the marriage fell apart and they decided to divorce, he freaked out. Many SAs (my rSA is one) are TERRIFIED of being alone (and yet they also believe they are completely unworthy of being loved.) During the divorce process is when his acting out accelerated (or the more common term is escalated.) The internet played a huge roll as well since he is also fundamentally shy and was never one to hang out in adult book stores, strip clubs or peep shows. Up to that point he pretty much just had a few Playboys (or Penthouse, whatever, that you can get at a mainstream store) but the internet opened up Pandora's box for him. Porn was easy to get and amass and he did. He was also panicked about being alone so he found dating sites and online communities. (That's how we met, but let me be clear it was NOT an adult site or a sex hook up site, it was a community I created on Excite (the company I worked for at the time owned the web portal and I was required to start a community as part of my job, I was single and finding it hard to meet people so I started a "friendship and dating" community for people to meet for LEGITIMATE dating.) He didn't know he was a sex addict and he genuinely had good intentions when we met and he did fall in love with me. (I'm sure your SA is the same. We cannot assume that they even knew they had a problem when they met us.) But because he stuffed all his emotions about his divorce (just as he had done about his childhood) and used sex as his drug to feel better he continued to escalate after we met. You can read my profile to see the full extent of the escalation. Porn and masturbating weren't getting him the "high" he needed anymore...sad thing is, nothing EVER WOULD. EVER.

Trying to get to the truth about the problems has been a challenge in his absence. Trying to recreate the past and give it a name and a face has been important to me for several reasons. With no confessions, no remorse from my spouse, healing is so hard and delayed when you are having to get to the truth and to understanding on your own with bits and pieces of the truth from old records.

I am not a professional but my opinion is that you need to stop focusing on details. You're never going to know. You have to face that and deal with that. He left. He chose his path (which is to deny his addiction) and he's never going to give you what you want. (Notice I didn't say need. You want this, but you don't need it. I know you're thinking I don't know shit about shit but I do and you don't NEED it.)

I can definitely assign the SA descriptor to my spouse but I also see a narcissistic disorder

Okay, so you know that he is a SA and a narcissist. That's all you need to know to move forward.
and a love, romance part in addition to the sex addiction. He was having multiple emotional relationships with several women, one in particular, even with all of the other acting out.

This is extremely common and probably the hardest part for most spouses to accept. My rSA had one LTA in the midst of his string of ONSs. Honestly, the ONSs were easier for me emotionally than knowing he shared emotional intimacy with this other woman.
I believe I personally need to understand as much as possible to get to a place where I can let it go completely and start really healing. I accept the situation but I have experienced mainly sadness and have not gotten to anger. I think I am looking at this as a sickness as opposed to a choice and this may be what has me hung in sadness. My therapist said I should not be trying to get to understanding of my spouse while in the middle of the divorce process. She said I can only help me.

What I see is you "pain mining" which is digging for more and more and more details of what he did. It's common. I did it. We all do. But it's not healthy. Ask your therapist about the term. You don't have to know every position he screwed these women in to let it go. You think you do but you don't. And you're never going to. It's frustrating and it's crazymaking and IT SUCKS but that is the reality. You're never going to know how many, who they were, how many times he screwed them, where he screwed them, if he said he loved them (blah, blah, blah) Trying to get that information is pain mining. Rather than looking at what you do know (and you know a lot) and then looking at yourself you're focused on him. It's easier. I know, I did it for a couple of years. It didn't do me any good. It's easier to wallow in our victimhood and protect outward than to look inward. Let me be clear here, we are all victims. We didn't choose this it was thrust upon us. But to move forward we need to accept it and focus on ourselves with the reality that we were victimized by someone we trusted.
I accept the situation but I have experienced mainly sadness and have not gotten to anger. I think I am looking at this as a sickness as opposed to a choice and this may be what has me hung in sadness.

His addiction is a sickness, but his unwillingness to get help and his decision to leave you is a choice. Be sad for the sickness (I think that's reasonable) but get MAD that he CHOSE to leave you. Anger is a part of this process, you're going to have to move through it before you can heal. I think this is a large component of why you're stuck. For most people anger is the first phase and it often reoccurs throughout the process.
I need to know as much of the truth as possible and understand what I was dealing with in order to truly heal.

And I'll say it again, you WANT it, you don't need it. There is a difference. (Look at the user name you chose WANTINGtheTruth, not NEEDINGtheTruth. Your user name is right.) You are making choices and right now you are choosing to focus on details and nitpick it rather than move forward. All that said, I also say, that's alright. You are where you are. You're not going to do anything differently because some stranger on a message board told you to. You're going through your process. I think you needed to hear this but it won't change what's happening here and now. Someday, when you have moved forward, you might remember that someone said it to you and think, "Oh, yeah...guess she had a point." but right now, you're working your process.

Take care of YOU.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, November 23rd (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lovedontlivehere

/start 2x4

HBG, I think I can enforce that one.

However, instead of looking up hookers he's looking up women on Yahoo! Personals. I have no idea what he's looking for, but it's not for a drop dead gorgeous woman. He probably couldn't tell me what he was looking for. I don't understand why he's so absorbed in searching for other women. I really believe he's just gone from one form of acting out to another.*shrug*

I don't think you can or will. As evidenced by the fact that apparently it's not okay for him to contact hookers to it is okay for him to be looking at profiles on Yahoo. What you have to understand here is that there is NO DISTINCTION between the two. He's looking for "porn with skin on" period. The only difference is whether or not he has to pay for it. Some guys get off on the "paying for it" part, not the sex. I don't know for sure what your SAs twist is but since he's looking for non-paying hook ups I'm guessing the "paying for it" is not his "thing."

You are not setting boundaries and you're not setting enforceable consequences.

Your first boundary should be that he get into recovery and get SOBER and the consequence should be severe. (You don't have to leave, if you can't do that, find something else.)

HBG is DEAD ON:

Make sure you only create consequences that YOU are prepared to enforce - otherwise, it makes them pretty much useless and the manipulative SAs know that. At least MINE does.

Your SA does not take you seriously and he knows he can manipulate you.

TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE.

/end 2x4


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
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