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User Topic: Spouses/Partners Of Sex Addicts
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, November 18th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I reread that too, and I sound confused.

OK, he (was) doing 90 days of abstinence, this has coincided with the 30 in 30 with his SAA meetings and sponsor. At least this is how I understand it, two separate entities but really all his work?

He had only two visits with that IC before he told him to "start thinking about when" to start the 90. WH started it, then IC left. Sucky timing.

I agree about resetting the sobriety and that was pretty much a given with SAH. the white knuckling is what I felt he was doing before he broke sobriety. It did not feel like a "rewiring." What it felt like was the years of no touching or sexual contact with me.

He has been very consistent about Group therapy and SAA meetings. That makes 3 nights a week and talks to his sponsor every day.
Still managed to go probably 3 weeks without admitting even with those things in place.

I personally think he thought he could do this himself, and easily, and didn't have good preparation or counseling to be prepared.
Hell, he didn't have a clue as to withdrawal.

I agree about provocative material. That is another factor I realized this weekend. We need some serious definitions. Dirty pics in my opinion are porn. I guess it isn't the case for him, so we need to sit down and synchronize definitions. I am NOT playing word games.

I also heard more clearly his words as he tried to manipulate really being honest.

In the end, he did come clean, but I am still not comfortable.

1-I had to detach and finally call him on it, before he would admit. Much much less codependent mothering than EvER before, but it's bothering me. I never yelled or even acted surprised.

2-He still only has admitted what he is sure I know, and I believe he still keeps me locked out of his casual personal conversations at work. Innocent or not, it is where he rationalizes and I feel he still does.
This is part of the issue because the closing me off from his daily life, began when he started viewing porn. (of course he doesn't know "when," but I can guess) The connection twists my gut every time I think about it. I think there is a reason.

ETA: feeding this concern is the fact that first time in about 4 months just after this weekend, he does not bring home his work laptop. I wonder if he is checking to see if I will ask or if it is "safe" for him to use. I haven't asked to see it for about 3 months.

[This message edited by too trusting BW at 3:53 PM, November 18th (Tuesday)]


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 4:03 PM, November 18th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi too,
I'm still confused.

90 days of abstinence from what? The only times the word abstinence ever came up in relation to my rSA's recovery was our 90 day abstinence contract where we both committed to not having intercourse or heavy sexual contact so that he could get himself sober and into recovery. We used that time to develop healthy intimacy which included touching but not sexually. It was a really good tool for us. Learning the difference between sex and intimacy was amazing for both of us.

Use of the term "90 day abstinence" in relationship to his recovery is really throwing me. Especially putting an end date on it. I just can't stop thinking "abstinence from what?"

To get and maintain sobriety, it is true that he will need to abstain from all his bottom line behaviors but there is not a end date on that. That is forever.

I just talked to my rSA and was explaining why I was so confused. I think he figured it out. Your husband is going to SAA meetings not to SA meetings? That's the problem and why I couldn't figure out what you meant. I guess they are telling him to abstain from masturbation for 90 days and then it's okay to start again. I have a deeply held belief that that is TOXIC and will never work. You're either sober or you're not. You don't tell an alcoholic to stop drinking for 90 days but after that it's fine to start drinking again. Let's consider for a moment that he couldn't even make it 90 days. I hate to be negative but if he stays with SAA instead of SA, I truly believe he will never get sober. Ever. (This is just my opinion of course.)

the white knuckling is what I felt he was doing before he broke sobriety. It did not feel like a "rewiring." What it felt like was the years of no touching or sexual contact with me.

That makes sense.

I agree about provocative material. That is another factor I realized this weekend. We need some serious definitions. Dirty pics in my opinion are porn. I guess it isn't the case for him, so we need to sit down and synchronize definitions. I am NOT playing word games.

In addition to setting your boundaries about what you consider inappropriate imagery etc you need to decide what you consider sobriety. You need to decide if you think he is sober if he's masturbating which SAA allows.

He still only has admitted what he is sure I know, and I believe he still keeps me locked out of his casual personal conversations at work. Innocent or not, it is where he rationalizes and I feel he still does.
This is part of the issue because the closing me off from his daily life, began when he started viewing porn. (of course he doesn't know "when," but I can guess) The connection twists my gut every time I think about it. I think there is a reason.

You don't have full disclosure. He's not sober. He's still gaslighting you. I'm sorry you're in this situation.

Are you going to IC? Reading any of the recommended books? I think you're going to have to focus only on YOU and what you want and what you can handle. You need to do your own work especially if he stays with the more lenient program.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
too trusting BW
♀ Member
Member # 15459
Default  Posted: 4:17 PM, November 18th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you so much for taking the time.

Yes, 90 days abstinence from ALL sexual activity. He and the IC did discuss what that entails, including masturbation, etc. I never heard about it being both of us, but I just assumed it is.

I have heard what you said about SAA vs SA. SAH and I both agree that masturbation is forever a bottom line for him. There is no such thing as "healthy" masturbation for him.

I have read both Mending a shattered heart and Don't call it Love, going to COSA and group spouse support meetings.

I don't think that he is gaslighting me as to past affairs or behavior.

What I think he is doing, is the equivalent of a drunk keeping the hiding places a secret. Keeping that avenue open for future needs.

His work has always been his private thing. It is also where the majority of the affair activity took place.

The viewing of porn and distancing himself, has recurred in the past few weeks. I think they are connected, and I do think he has casual friendships that he deems innocent and may be for now. I think it is his way of keeping things available and maintaining his fantasy life.
Make sense?


Me 39
SA-FWH 44
11yrs M
In R-maybe
3 DC from Marriage #1
1 DS together
at least 4 d-days

Posts: 1300 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Kansas
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 5:22 PM, November 18th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, 90 days abstinence from ALL sexual activity. He and the IC did discuss what that entails, including masturbation, etc. I never heard about it being both of us, but I just assumed it is.

Well, yes, if it's from ALL sexual activity that would include sex with you. It might have been healthier to do a contract like I talked about so that you were included. It impacts you too. Plus, like I said it's a good tool to help build real intimacy in your relationship. Finding ways to be close and intimate without sex is a great exercise.

I have heard what you said about SAA vs SA. SAH and I both agree that masturbation is forever a bottom line for him. There is no such thing as "healthy" masturbation for him.

That's great. I really think you guys have a much better chance if he's really sober. I'll bet you said that before but I have a hard time remembering everyone's details and I haven't been online much, so I'm sorry about that.

I have read both Mending a shattered heart and Don't call it Love, going to COSA and group spouse support meetings.

Great! I'm pretty sure there is info in MaSH about the abstinence contract if you think you might want to ask for that.

I don't think that he is gaslighting me as to past affairs or behavior.

I just meant that he's still being secretive and protective of his "activities" (work) and that's not healthy. Gaslighting might have been too strong a term for it.

I hope his seeing his new IC and resetting his sobriety is successful.
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question.

For any of you BS, how did you get your WS to see that they had a problem?

Did any of you know about the problem before your WS, and what did it take to get them to wake up about it? Did it take a long time? Did you have to talk to them about it or did you have to issue ultimatums? Or did they wake up on their own?

Mine says it is not a problem, because he lived without porn and acting out for 4 years while we were together, but it still came out in different ways, like the lack of intimacy during sex and just his whole attitude of carrying around something deep and heavy inside of him.

He tells me he has fixed his porn viewing, won't do any of this ever again because he knows it hurt me and it wasn't worth the damage to our relationship, but he is not healed. He still has secrets that he is carrying, and there is absolutely no sex life between us right now (although our situation is much different, because he is away for one year on a job and we won't physically be together again until next spring. I fly to see him once a month, and am going again tomorrow, and don't know what to say to him about all this, because he always seems terribly overwhelmed and just wants pleasantness between us.) He always acts like he just can't handle one more problem and is at his breaking point with everything. Personally, I think it is because he is carrying such a heavy burden, and I know he would feel better in the long run if he just knew it is treatable and there are others fighting this, but to even bring it up starts such unpleasantness, and since I only see him 3 to 4 days a month, I tend to not bring it up much but it is still there between us.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14917 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
Newtwood
♀ Member
Member # 21154
Default  Posted: 8:21 AM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NaiveAgain Your WS and mine sound alot alike. He said the exact same thing. He internalizes everything which is why it lead to where it did.

He says he doesn't feel like he did before when he was stressed. Hurting me has kind of "snapped him out of it". I don't believe it. I think it's just him sucking it in again to add to his other baggage and one day he's gonna blow!

I made him take Dr. Carnes online tests-he was I think 2 points short of: GET INTO A PROGRAM NOW! At the time he said he did think he had a problem-now he says he doesn't. He answered Yes to nearly all the questions on the online porn addiction test. But he doesn't have a problem?

He just wants to forget any of it ever happened. I'm just afraid when the stress level gets up there again where will that lead him?


Faithful Wife of 24+ yrs: Me
WS: Him
OW(s): AFF Skanks/GRANDMOTHERS!!!

Status: Struggling Everday to
Survive

what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France


Posts: 2181 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: North Carolina
PlanB
♀ New Member
Member # 21359
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Newtwood,
My WS says the same thing about not wanting to ever hurt me again, and says that he is never going to cheat again. (His method of choice were prostitutes). He also promises never to use porn again. This past weekend, I was looking through his phone address book, ( I needed his sister's new cell phone # that she had just called from.), and I was scrolling through his recent received calls- found her number, and also one from "SHAY". Well, I knew that was one of the call girls names, and I quickly jotted down the number. Sure enough- it was the same one that he had seen a couple of times. I asked him on Monday if he had contacted or had been contacted by any of the girls- and he said that one had called him on Friday. She wanted to see him- he said that he blew her off??? Okay- why not tell me? Why do I have to find out, and then pry it out of him? Last night, while he was in the shower, I snooped (I can't trust him at this point) I scrolled through the main phone number list on his phone. I found a listing for "H", and one for "K". I just googled them this morning, and they were both from an escort service. I then went to Craigslist, on the erotic service section- and found both of them. Heather and Kelsey. NICE. He is getting a new phone for work tomorrow, I am making him change his number. I don't want these sluts to be able to call him. I feel so STUPID. We had sex last night- and it was wonderful!!! But now I just feel stupid. I do think that my WS is a sex addict- but he doesn't want to go to a counselor. He says that's what he has me for. Why the hell put that on me??? I think it's time he makes an appointment. I am hurt, confused, and MAD!!!


Fall Seven Times, Stand Up Eight
~Japanese Proverb

high school sweethearts, together for 18 years, married for 15.
Me- 35
Him-38
2 kids.
d-day 10-14-08
trying to reconcile


Posts: 15 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: California
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PROGRAM NOW! At the time he said he did think he had a problem-now he says he doesn't. He answered Yes to nearly all the questions on the online porn addiction test. But he doesn't have a problem?

That kind of logic reminds me of our former counselor.

His behavior is escalating, but he's not an addict.

Well, I hope your H can acknowledge that he has a problem. ((((HUG))))

He's sexually compulsive, but he doesnt' have a problem you just need to be more stimulating.

Yes, I am still perturbed about that after months.

I want him to take that test,too, but I know I can't make him.

OH and I have disagreements about that,too. I consider anything that is meant to be titillating as material he shouldn't have. Maybe Maxim isn't always considered porn, but that's exactly how he will use it. Playboy is porn, he doesn't think so. I think he equates porn with the hardcore stuff.

OH has pointed out to me that a lot of stuff like CD covers, mag covers, etc are porn. He's exactly right. I have a Janet Jackson CD, and the cover could easily be in Playboy. That stuff is hard to get away from.

[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 11:48 AM, November 19th (Wednesday)]


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Flame  Posted: 3:30 PM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NaiveAgain, Newtwood and PlanB,
I'm swinging a big ol' 2x4 at all three of you, if you don't want to deal with it, stop reading now.

You're all trying to control HIM. You're all focusing on HIM. I know it seems logical but it's not. If he can't face his addiction you're not going to force him to. What you all are doing is allowing yourself to be manipulated and used. Codependency.

You cannot force him to do anything. You cannot "wake him up." You cannot SAVE HIM.

Save yourselves. Get counseling. Set concrete boundaries and consequences. (In some cases, suffering severe consequences does "wake up" the addict and they do get help BUT you cannot do it with that goal in mind! You have to surrender the outcome completely.) You all know that you are living with sex addicts. You KNOW IT. So what are YOU going to do for YOU? It's not about him anymore. It's about you. (It sucks doesn't it? I know.)
Here is a good resource for learning about boundaries:
http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/page14.html

NaiveAgain You said:

He tells me he has fixed his porn viewing, won't do any of this ever again because he knows it hurt me and it wasn't worth the damage to our relationship

How do you know this is true? How do you know he's not viewing porn? Do you honestly believe that he is not acting out when you're not together? You WANT to believe it. I get that, but c'mon, do you really? If not, you need to decide what YOU want. If you are not okay with what he's doing, change your situation. YOURS (not his).

Newtwood You said,

He just wants to forget any of it ever happened. I'm just afraid when the stress level gets up there again where will that lead him?

You know the answer to this. What are YOU going to do for yourself? You can't stop him, you can't fix him, you can't prevent him from acting out. What are you doing to protect yourself?

PlanB
You said,

My WS says the same thing about not wanting to ever hurt me again, and says that he is never going to cheat again. (His method of choice were prostitutes). He also promises never to use porn again. ... I was scrolling through his recent received calls- found her number, and also one from "SHAY". Well, I knew that was one of the call girls names, and I quickly jotted down the number. Sure enough- it was the same one that he had seen a couple of times. I asked him on Monday if he had contacted or had been contacted by any of the girls- and he said that one had called him on Friday. She wanted to see him- he said that he blew her off??? Okay- why not tell me? Why do I have to find out, and then pry it out of him? Last night, while he was in the shower, I snooped (I can't trust him at this point) I scrolled through the main phone number list on his phone. I found a listing for "H", and one for "K". I just googled them this morning, and they were both from an escort service. I then went to Craigslist, on the erotic service section- and found both of them. Heather and Kelsey. NICE.

and in the next sentence:
We had sex last night- and it was wonderful!!! But now I just feel stupid.

The counselor of my Spouses of SA Group gave a simplified version of something called the "Relationship Attachment Model" that really summed it up for me.

"To the extent I know you, I can trust you. To the extent I can trust you, I can rely on (be vulnerable with) you. To the extent I can rely on you, I can commit to you. To the extent I can commit to you, I can be intimate (sexual) with you."

The text book says it this way: "The level of each bonding process, however, must be kept in balance with the others in order to insure a healthy attachment. This balance is maintained by a simple rule:
The level of one bonding process should never exceed the level of the previous. ...therefore, the level at which one knows his/her partner establishes the maximum level of earned trust, which establishes the maximum level of safe reliance, which establishes the maximum level of healthy commitment, which establishes the maximum level of appropriate sexual involvement. In other words, the degree of sexual involvement should not exceed the degree of commitment, which should not exceed the degree of reliance, which should not exceed the degree of development in your trust picture, which should not exceed the degree of what you accurately know about the partner."

Here's what you DO know, you KNOW he's had sex with hookers. (I read your other posts where you gave all the details) So that begs the questions, do you know him, do you trust him, can you rely on him??

You have to keep yourself save. He is still actively acting out! He is a sex addict and he's NOT sober or in recovery. You have to figure out what you're going to do for yourself.

but he doesn't want to go to a counselor. He says that's what he has me for.

WRONG!!! You are NOT (nor should you EVER be) his accountability partner!! You should be mad! I hope you are mad enough to educate yourself about SA and get help for yourself so that you can be safe.

7

[This message edited by 7yrsbetrayed at 3:49 PM, November 19th (Wednesday)]


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Question  Posted: 3:51 PM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OH and I have disagreements about that,too. I consider anything that is meant to be titillating as material he shouldn't have. Maybe Maxim isn't always considered porn, but that's exactly how he will use it. Playboy is porn, he doesn't think so. I think he equates porn with the hardcore stuff.

What boundaries and consequences are you setting?

7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
lovedontlivehere
♀ Member
Member # 20055
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He has one big boundary-if he even so much as looks at hookers again I'm gone. I told him I wouldn't tolerate that.

That's it. I'm bad with boundaries!


Partner still wanking off into fantasy land.
*update* No longer together, but he was STABBED and now wants R. Whatever.

Posts: 1256 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Deep South
1Forward1Back
♀ Member
Member # 11057
Default  Posted: 5:21 PM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 yrs. is absolutely bang on. It's essential to work on ourselves and to let go of the outcome. You cannot control your partner's behaviour and his state of mind and his actions should not control you.

I learned a very hard lesson this last week or two. I know my H is using. I know by his distancing and I see the spam he gets in email to confirm it.

I think he has escalated since his counsellor fired him. I understand why to some extent because I feel the same abandonment he probably feels by the IC's decision.

I never knew how sick I really am until this week. I have avoided the Al-Anon meetings, the CoSa online discussions and my readings and workbook.

I have engaged in my co-addict behaviours to a monumental extent this past few weeks. Drinking too much, spending way too much on new clothes, jewellry, etc. and a couple new behaviours I am not comfortable discussing.

But the realization and horror of my reaction to my H's behaviour escalation has made me realize that this is not over for me. I simply can't work on myself until I *think* I'm there and then quit.

I need to get back to doing those things that helped me focus on myself such as reading and re-reading the material I find helpful.

And I am getting a new counsellor. And this one won't be a religious bigot like the last one turned out to be. I'm also taking some action at some point to talk with the old IC/MC to inform him that he needs to quit this bigotry and to work on his professionalism.

Another girl at work who has seen him also agrees he has professional problems. And she has not a religious bone in her body. It was in other areas that she questioned his methods.

I'll probably just write him a letter or arrange to talk with him. But I cannot let this go. He could really hurt somebody and their progress by his inattention to professional boundaries.

Anyway, it's so good to see you back 7 yrs. I hope you are doing well.


Me: 60 Yrs. (BS)
Him: 60 Yrs.(FWH- life long sex addict)
-2 ONSs followed by an A-2005/06
-cheated while we were engaged
-seems to stray every 30 years or so
D-Day-June 10, 2006
Working on own recovery. His is his!
Married: 37 yrs. Grown ch

Posts: 966 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: Canada
NaiveAgain
♀ Member
Member # 20849
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, November 19th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs - thanks for your post and the 2x4!

I don't know for sure he has stopped--that is my worry. He gave me his laptop and he has no access to another computer. I check his cell phone numbers from time to time because I pay the bills. The only place he could be viewing is on cable, and I don't get the cable bill, although I do see the deduction in our checking account. The bill is the same every month, so if he bought pay per view it would be a bit more.

The boundaries I have right now are: if I find one more bit of porn--he goes into counseling or I leave; he told me no more because it hurt me, so if he does it again he either wants to 1. hurt me on purpose, or 2. he has an illness he can't control.

If I see one more call to an escort--that is my limit and I will not let him kill me with HIV or something because he has a sickness. I won't have sex with him until he gets tested and I don't care if that takes 2 years because I'm not in the mood anymore anyway.

And if I don't find anything, but he is still emotionally distant and walking around with secrets he won't discuss, I posted something in reconciliation :

I love you and I have stuck by you thru all our hardships and everything that you put me through. I don't think I need to prove my love any longer, but I am tired of seeing you in pain. You are unhappy, and holding so much crap in, and I worry about how it comes out in from time to time in very detrimental ways in our relationship and sometimes in your relationship with others. If you will get help, I will stand by your side, and go with you, and be so proud of you for taking that hard step, but if you prefer to stay in a lost world so immersed in pain, I can't stand it any longer and will not allow myself and my children to be subjected to that any longer.

At some point I will be tired of dealing with this and he will get that speech. But I am not ready for it yet, because there is the ultimatum and I have to really be ready to go.


Original WS D-Day July 10, 2008. Kept lying, he is gone.
New WS (2 EA's, no PA) 12-3-13
If you don't like where you are, then change it. You are not a tree.

Posts: 14917 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Ohio
PlanB
♀ New Member
Member # 21359
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, November 20th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7-
Wow, I needed that! I know that I am being stupid- just grasping for anything that reminds me of how it used to be. Before D-day, I was so clueless. He was living a double life, and I never noticed. I was so busy with the house (we are building) and the kids schedules- I gave him complete trust, thinking that everything was fine. Well- I have figured out that it's my turn to live my life for me! I am jogging again (boy it's hard to get back into it) and it really helps clear my head. I am going to go back to school, and actually get my degree. (got married, and stayed home with the kids before I graduated) My focus right now is to stay healthy, exercise, and do things for myself. I am preparing myself for anything. My focus is to get my degree, get a job (haven't worked in 12 years) pay off our debt, not create any new debt, start a savings account for myself, finish this darn house, so then if it doesn't end up working out- we can sell it. I waiver from day to day as to what to do. One day, I can't stand to look him in the eye because of what he's done- then the next moment- I convince myself that I need him more than anything in this world. I really loved what we HAD. I do need him right now to support me while I get my feet on the ground, so then I can support myself and my kids if I need to. I am actually expecting a HUGE shipment from Amazon.com today. I have checked out all the books that our library has- and now am ready for more. The next one I am reading is on Codependency. I am writing a list of boundaries today, as is he. We will then compile them into one. It will be interesting to see what he writes. Last night he told me (again) that he was so sorry. He was sooooo sorry for hurting me. Well- I told him that he couldn't even imagine how much it hurts. I told him it would have been easier on my heart, if he had died. (our neighbor is a widow with 5 kids) My heart would still be breaking, but at least I would have been able to have my memories. So, that's how it is- I was married for 15 years to a sex addict. And now I must mourn the end of our "perfect marriage".

I am going to a counselor on Monday, and hoping that he goes to the appointment I made for him on Tuesday.

Wouldn't it be easier if Sexual Addiction wasn't real? Wouldn't it be easier to say that it's just a cover up for bad behavior? I wish it was- because then I wouldn't have a problem leaving. But I feel obligated to stay and see this through- just in case there is hope of reconciliation. Real happiness is what I am hoping for. I don't want to settle for anything less.

7- you said

"Here's what you DO know, you KNOW he's had sex with hookers. (I read your other posts where you gave all the details) So that begs the questions, do you know him, do you trust him, can you rely on him?"


Well, I thought I knew him, I thought that I could trust him, and I thought that I could rely on him. Now we have to start over from the beginning. I know that having sex with him is pretty selfish on my part. I am trying to reconnect, and if I can keep those damn movies from playing in my head-it is actually a good thing. When I said that the sex was wonderful- that's what I meant- I didn't think about ANY OF THEM the whole time- it wasn't over the top, or especially orgasmic- it just felt real. Not just him using me to get off. That's what I meant about it being wonderful.

I asked told him that I found the phone numbers, and since I didn't recognize the numbers, I looked them up, and told him what I found. He felt HORRIBLE!!! He said that he hadn't called them since d-day. He immediately deleted them, and said that he couldn't believe that he left them there. Okay- now I really want to trust him- but on some level I don't believe him. He also said that he got rid of all of his porn stash- and he is not on the computer unless I am in the room. And when I am not home- all of the computers are password protected. I know I shouldn't have to rule with an iron thumb- but he lost the privilege of using the computer.

Thanks again for your post-

[This message edited by PlanB at 12:01 PM, November 20th (Thursday)]


Fall Seven Times, Stand Up Eight
~Japanese Proverb

high school sweethearts, together for 18 years, married for 15.
Me- 35
Him-38
2 kids.
d-day 10-14-08
trying to reconcile


Posts: 15 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: California
WantingtheTruth
♀ Member
Member # 20889
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, November 20th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there anyone in this forum that has had to try to figure out if their spouse was a SA or NPD after the separation and without access to their computer? My husband left me; I had no warning. He was so arrogant, so cruel when he left. I could not make sense of anything. I knew I had to find out the truth about my life, our life, and I have found the trails of a shocking 2nd life for my spouse.

I cried and crawled my way through months of old cell phone records, charges card records, and deleted files on an old computer to get to what I know: other women, calls to escorts, massage parlors and porn.

I know there is more and that I have just scratched the surface. Since he left me before I had any idea of the SA, I have had no access to checking e-mails, IM's, etc., like most of you. Can anyone suggest to me how can I find out about his profiles on dating sites if I do not have access to his current computer?

I know there is more. How does one track old records to get to as much of the truth as possible?

I am waiting for one day when I do not have to look for anything more to get to the truth about my life.


The truth is easy to remember.
BW, 53, Divorcing WH
WH, 49, No truths, in denial
Married 14 years, together 20 years. Who is this man?

Posts: 91 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Georgia
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 12:57 AM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WantingtheTruth
I'm so sorry you find yourself here and in this situation.

This is an exceptionally difficult position to be in and I know that you must be incredibly hurt, frustrated, angry... well, you name it, I'm guessing you're feeling it.

I read some (not all) of your other posts and see that there is zero chance of reconciliation and you say that your children are grown, and also that you have "no contact" with him. Based on those things, here is my advice.

I know you WANT the whole truth and all the gory details and frankly, you deserve to know some... but the reality is, you've got all the truth you're going to get.

From what you've posted, I agree that he is a sex addict. A completely out of control sex addict who is not even remotely interested in getting sober or walking the path to recovery. I see that you've explored him also having NPD. He may, he may not and really, the NPD issue simply doesn't matter UNLESS the two of you were planning to reconcile.

Stop focusing on him and focus on YOU. He's gone. He made his choice (and it sucks!) but it is what it is. You are torturing yourself ("pain mining") by trying to dig and uncover more information. You have all the information you need to move on and get YOURSELF right. You know he has a compulsive porn habit. You know he cheated on you. You know he had sex with prostitutes. Bottom line, you know he is a sex addict and that is the only knowledge you need.

I suggest you educate yourself about SA just so that you understand why he chose the path he did. (I'm not saying that understanding SA will give you what you need to forgive him and frankly I don't think you should but that's a whole different conversation. Read my profile, I explain my position on "forgiveness" there.) This knowledge of SA also will not EVER excuse what he did to you. EVER. But in this case, understanding the addiction will help you heal from your trauma.

Here are the resources I suggest for you.

~ Have a COMPLETE STD panel. Explicitly ask that they test you for every STD and tell them why. There is NO SHAME in this. YOU didn't do anything wrong and no one will judge you.

~ Read "Mending A Shattered Heart" by Stefanie Carnes

after that

~ Read "Don't Call It Love" by Dr. Patrick Carnes

~ Find a good counselor who is familiar with codependency (I hate this label but it will lead you to an experienced counselor) and addiction, preferably SEX addiction and get into therapy. You need it to heal from the years of emotional abuse you've suffered. Trust me on this.

~ Have as little contact with him as possible and do not engage in trying to get more information. Surrender this and let him go. (Easier typed than done, I know.)

~ Make sure that your grown children understand sex addiction and that that is what their father has. Seriously! If you have daughters they are more likely to end up with a sex addict and if you have sons they are more likely to BE sex addicts. You need to inform your children and get them counseling too. Being raised in an addictive household (whether it is hidden or not) breeds addiction and codependency. It's a vicious cycle.

~ Keep posting here and when you're ready read some of the other books I usually recommend about SA.

PM me anytime
7


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NaiveAgain and PlanB
I'm working on individual responses for both of you.

7

P.S. Waving to 1F1B, I've missed PMing with you etc. Hopefully we'll see each other around the boards more.

Thanks again to EVERYONE for all your kind words and thoughts. I'm still struggling with the loss of our son, but I think we'll be okay. We had a really good couples session today.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
newday2day
♀ Member
Member # 21318
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ladies,

New shocker in my life as of this morning. My period was late and it's not so normal over the past few months so I figured I have PCOS. But I still had one pregnancy test left from the last long cycle.

So when I got up I tried it out knowing it would be negative and I would go on about my day feeling relieved to know that it's not happening.

HOWEVER... 2 lines showed up. The positive line showed up before the control line.

I don't know what to feel right now. My WH and I are so close to DDay (5 weeks) and guess what I would be about 5 weeks prego.

I'm in complete shock. It must have happend during our hyper bonding time. We've not had sex in over three weeks.

I did call WH and was thrilled. I on the other hand am so confused I can hardly stand it. I really believe that God has a screwed up sense of humor.


BS 31
WS 36
Married 9/1/07
D Day #1 1/21/08 - personals ad response
D Day #2 5/15/08 - created 2 personals ads
D Day #3, 4, & 5 10/08 - personals ad response, phone sex, calling escort services
Newest D-Day 1/1/2010 - Will it ever end? This tim

Posts: 95 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Michigan
7yrsbetrayed
♀ Member
Member # 10198
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The positive line showed up before the control line.

I would question the validity of that test. The control line should come up first. Take a new test tomorrow.

But I still had one pregnancy test left from the last long cycle.

How old was it? Was it expired? Again, buy a new test and take it with FMU (first morning urine) tomorrow.

I would be worried about this given your SA's history of cheating and his contact with escorts. (From your profile it sounds like you believe he didn't have sex with them but really, you don't KNOW for certain.) Have you both had a full STD panel? If you are pregnant that is the FIRST thing you need to tell your doctor and ask for tests.


Me(44)
Him(46) arthurdent (rSA)
Married 12 yrs, together 15
Renewed Vows 12/19/08
One DD(8)
You can avoid reality but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.~Ayn Rand

Posts: 2167 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Colorado
PoorTwistedMe
♀ Member
Member # 20956
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, November 21st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But I still had one pregnancy test left from the last long cycle.
...
HOWEVER... 2 lines showed up. The positive line showed up before the control line.

Im with "7"... Please take another test in the morning or go to your GP or GYN for testing. Also, Yes, get the STD work-up done and fast! There are many scary STD's out there and so many of them are contractable even using "latex" protection. Believe me, its no fun but it will keep you informed & healthy.


Take Care of You!


Twisted

DDay- 14 Aug 08, 16 Sept 08, 22 Sept 08, 7 Oct 08, 27 & 28 April 09
Trickle Truth is Brutality


Posts: 150 | Registered: Sep 2008
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