I said "I understand what you're saying and I understand you're frusterated. I'm asking you for my sanity and well-being. I know what you have said and I truly do believe you. Since there's nothing to worry about it truly should not be a big deal and it can be over. At least the questions about STDs. I hope that makes sense. I want to be with you and need to remove as many doubts as possible."
I think that if there's truly nothing to worry about he should be willing to prove his innocence. Right? Or am I crazy here?
Your are correct to ask and insist.
When health and safety is concerned, there should be no compromise. It is beyond the mere realm of trust or the lack thereof. It is to protect your life.
You cannot make him do anything, including taking STD tests. Let him know if he refuses, then he has two options: you will not have sex with him, or a condom must be used. It is a choice that you have to make. Remember, some STDs get transmitted without intercourse, and condoms are not 100% fool proof.
NO COMPROMISE AS FAR AS YOUR HEALTH IS CONCERNED. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION.
I am proud of you. Please take care of yourself. We are here with you every step of the way.
[This message edited by birdwatch at 12:15 PM, October 31st (Friday)]
Way to go! You sound very calm and reasoned and sure of yourself (regardless of how you might be feeling inside!). There's nothing wrong with insisting that he assure you -- given that he's lied in the past about his activities, it only make sense that the onus is on him to prove to you that he's being honest. In short? NO -- You're NOT being crazy, you're being quite sane.
Birdwatch and the others have been giving you great advice.
Let me just start by saying GOOD FOR YOU! So glad you went to get tested and IMHO you should demand that WH be tested as well.
To me, the balking about handing over passwords or phone bills or going to get tested are red flags and makes me wonder what they are hiding. (after my WH hid so much that way)
How could he expect you to believe and trust him at this point after what he's put you through? You are right on in demanding he get tested and were great with your wording of "for my sanity".
I think the real possibility that my WH might have put my life in danger humbled him enough to go the next day after d-day to be tested.
Birdwatch is right. But, personally I wouldn't even give him the choice of using a condom. I'd say no tests, no sex! And to me, if he adamantly refuses to go get tested, then it sounds like he's done more than call an escort service. I could be wrong, but from what I am learning, the "fix" grows and grows and may escalate from masturbation & porn to phone sex, then escorts and ONS...who knows...
Know that we are all here for you!!!
He denies he has issues. Surprise, right? He slept with prostitutes, had an affair and the few times I checked his computer, it was loaded with Porn! Loaded! There has been possible hook-ups with same sex???
I have decided I can not do this anymore. We are moving forward with the divorce after 15 years...
Again, he does not feel like he has a problem. He feels he is a *normal* guy. Me, it scares me. He is not the person I knew. He has this life, I don't UNDERSTAND. He continues with portions of it because he see's nothing wrong with it.
Although I am getting a divorce, we have 2 young kids. Is there anything I should look for? I need to feel safe and I need them to BE safe. I already have my proof of him looking at hard porn while he was watching our son.
We are going in for *Family* therapy. I will inform the therapist of my findings. But what else can I do?
What do you do?
[This message edited by LisaP at 11:51 PM, November 2nd (Sunday)]
"The only thing left to do is forgive and forget. I want to forgive you and I want to forget you!" ~Lauren Conrad
~Feel your emotions, but control your behavior~ Unknown
I don't know the stats on SAs abusing their own family. But I do know that Daddy watching porn does affect children. My son is proof of that.
I would ask the family therapist if the kids should have individual counseling. Child psychologists are skilled at assessing how adult actions have affected children.
I applaud your decision to leave. There is no hope when the SA refuses to admit they have a problem.
My grandpa has an extensive porn collection, I mean magazines from when I was born, vhs, dvds, you name it. My brother (10 yrs old) and I have stumbled across his videos on purpose and accidentally. A few years ago my brother would go into my grandpa's room and get one of his videos. As a child, my grandpa taped over one of my kiddie shoes with his adult material. I was in for quite a surprise when I popped it in and hit play!!!
I think OH has been erasing his viewing history. I dont know if I'm just being paranoid, distrustful or whatever, but his history seems a bit too clean. I've checked on his computer, and nothing would show up. Nothing. The last time I checked it showed he had viewed 2 porn vids. I knooow he's been viewing more than that. I was mad b/c he lied-he told me he was going to end his subscription to this site after September! Not that I believed him,though. I know he can't go that long without it esp. with a computer right there.
He's still doing the groping thing. I wish he'd just stop.
ETA-I'm trying to figure this out. He's into the crazy and violent porn stuff, but the sex is so predictable.
[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 11:27 AM, November 3rd (Monday)]
I hate that revealed to my WH long ago about the computer's history. Sometimes I wish I would just shut my mouth! But
I get so hurt and upset that I show all my "sources" so to speak.
He does not know the things that I suspect and know. I confronted him only after finding the first woman which of course he said she was nothing more than a friend. This rocked on for weeks with nothing more from him, no remorse, no confessions, only continued arrogance and denial that they were anything more than friends. hundreds of calls, text messages, trips to see her, dinners out of town, etc. He has confessed to nothing and we have not spoken in weeks. I believe he believes that his actions are justified and he believes his own lies.
I just want to be done with this but the divorce process for us is going to drag on forever because of no agreement on division of assets. I live in a state where infidelity is only grounds for a divorce and assets are split as "fair and equitable. Problem is, he had total control of our finances and has most likely been planning for this event. I struggle with a 50/50 split when I brought 70/30 to the table and I did not go outside of our marriage and break our marriage vows and the promises.
How long will I continue to hurt with each new piece of information about his activities? When does the heart and mind come together in accepting the truth?
When is enough really enough and the hurt becomes something that represents healing and acceptance?
[This message edited by WantingtheTruth at 8:18 PM, November 3rd (Monday)]
Sorry to hear you're sad today.
I had to have IC and meds to get me through. Time is what heals this very deep wound.
Sounds like you need a good lawyer. They can usually figure out the financial mischief going on. Judges don't look too kindly on adulterers.
If you are gathering evidence for the divorce then it is ok to keep looking. If you already have enough for the divorce then you should stop looking because a sex addict always leaves a path of lies and there's no reason to keep hurting yourself.
Mending a Shattered Heart is a good book.
Big hugs for you as you start on your path to healing.
After my last and final discoveries of his secrets, I finally realized that I could not continue in this relationship. For each discovery, he had an excuse. The proof is in his actions....not his words. This is something I have come to learn and accept.
It just makes me look at myself and MY choices. For so many years I wanted to believe I had it wrong. I allowed him to convince me his lies were truths. I wanted to believe in him. To trust him.
But now, I have hit my rock bottom. I can not help him. I can only help myself and our kids. I hurt for him, because I know he will struggle without me. I have always been his rock....and I am walking out to save my sanity and my health.
I deserve better. Our kids deserve better.
I have found when my WH is erasing the history on the PC that there is something going on. Have you tried to "secretly" install Google Desktop? This has worked wonders for me, until WH discovers it then I will be installing the keylogger (though I think I need to be doing this any way).
Well, both of us were right.
He was looking up women in Las Vegas on yahoo personals. We had a plan that I would go with him to Vegas-but I'd have to come a few months later than him b/c of school.
Oh wait I take that back. He's looking up women everywhere! I think he's acting out...He'd look up hookers around the country,too. I know he's been searching b/c some of these profiles haven't been active in months.
I just got into him about doing this kind of stuff!!!
ETA: I don't know if I could do keylogger or something similar on his computer since it doubles as a work pc and has sensitive information on it.
Yesterday he saw me with his Playboy mag. I don't understand the appeal-why ruin a sex life for that???
I dont think he knows that I know he has a stash of maxims in the bathroom. I can put two and two together
I know he's up to something b/c when he's acting out he wants to be intimate everyday.
[This message edited by lovedontlivehere at 9:38 AM, November 4th (Tuesday)]
Sorry I have been off line for a while. I have to take a day off work today - I am a workaholic but I just can't get myself together to go to work today. I am just utterly exhausted, physically and mentally. I think I am depressed. I have a doctor's appointment in two hours to re-fill my anti-anxiety prescription and sleeping pills.
OW (one of them anyway) emailed Mr. Birdwatch out of the blue four days ago. Mr. Birdwatch did not tell me. There is no acting out on Mr. Birdwatch's part - the email is quite clear that this email from OW is totally out of the blue. Mr. Birdwatch had called her back on D Day 2 in front of me to tell her in no unmistaken terms that I now know about their "relationship", she is not to contact us, and he does not want to hear from her ever again. I guess she doesn't understand what no means.
In response to this recent email from OW, Mr. Birdwatch invited her to leave a note in the mailbox in his office. Apparently, the note is something simple like I want to talk to you and here is my number. Apparently, Mr. Birdwatch read it, breathed a sigh of relief that it is not something more "serious" (like warning, my husband is going to drive around and confront you), and he rippped it up and threw it away. The above information came after 6 hours of "interrogation"! I am a lawyer, but I never thought I would practise my cross-examination skills on my partner. And despite what you may see on TV, it is NOT nice to have to cross-examine someone you love. In fact, it just broke my heart.
More "stuff" from the past came out. OW is actually married. Mr. Birdwatch said when he got OW's email, which email was quite vague, he was freaked out that may be OW's husband has discovered this and OW's husband might come to our apartment (OW knows where we leave - she has been up here - but that's old news I already know). Mr. Birdwatch said he was really afraid I would be upset by the scene and wanted this to go just go away.
I am sorry I am rambling. I trust my gut now. My gut tells me there is nothing going on between OW and Mr. Birdwatch, and Mr. Birdwatch has no intention of re-connecting with OW. HOWEVER, Mr. Birdwatch knows our agreement - he has to tell me whenever any OW contacts me. Not only did he not tell me, it took me a pain-staking 6 hours to get all the details.
It is true that I had numerous anxiety attacks last week, to the point where I could not get up from bed. The email came just 1-2 days after I was able to get out of bed, and Mr. Birdwatch said he felt he could not tell me.
Mr. Birdwatch is now also having a panic attack/psychotic break. He said he made a mistake, but this mistake has nothing to do with acting out. He has now been distraught for two days and I am now concerned about his health, let alone mine.
I just cannot believe how easy this could have been all avoided. IF ONLY HE HAD TOLD ME! We could have decided together how to respond to the email - delete it or respond to it. Instead, we now both have 2 days of hell and counting.
I am not even angry with him in the sense of his acting out, because he has not acted out in the traditional sense. I am just frustrated, like a mother being frustrated with a teenager. I don't know if I am making sense.
I am so sorry if this post is incoherent. I love Mr. Birdwatch, and know he has not acted out. Nonetheless, he lied and covered up. I know we can move on, but at this particular minute, I feel drained and dejected. How many times do I have to say the same things (i.e. tell me when you are contacted by OW; 100% honesty).
We are still R'ing. Any positive suggestions as to how to move pass this incident would be appreciated.
Thank you very much to all of you for listening.
[This message edited by birdwatch at 2:19 PM, November 4th (Tuesday)]
I know exactly how you feel -- been there, done that, have the meds to prove it! It IS exhausting. It took awhile but I did FINALLY get my husband to understand that "protecting" me just causes me greater anxiety because I can sense something is wrong, but am being told everything's "okay". It's like a flashback to all the times when my gut was telling me one thing, and everyone else was telling me something else. It's like some sort of post-trauma response now. Is there any chance that, after seeing what happened to both of you in the past few days, he'll "get" how traumatic the half-truths, lies by omission, etc. are??
I've also posted in the past about how reconciling with an SA is further challenged by the fact that THEY are so traumatized by what they've done that we can't really count on them to support us when we most need it. It so often seems to be the other way around.
In any case, I'm sending you strength. Get some sleep, if you can. I'll be thinking of you.
Like others advised you, I would find a counsellor and seek out advice re. the SA and children. I don't know if you can impose boundaries or restrictions. If your husband is still in denial, I too would be worried that he's refusing to recognize any harm his actions could bring to your kids. I'm a firm believer in talking to kids honestly -- but in an age-appropriate way. I spent too much of my own childhood being told that what I felt in my gut was wrong and the result, of course, was learning to NOT trust my own instincts and rely on others to tell me what was really going on.
I think you just have to give up the hunt. You're simply re-traumatizing yourself over and over. I suppose there's some chance that you'll desensitize yourself, though that doesn't seem to be happening. I had to picture a huge read STOP sign in my head any time I started to obsess over what I knew. It served nothing but to make me depressed and angry.
But for now, I will be putting an offer in on a home that I believe the kids and I can start a new chapter in our lives. I can only hope when he see's his family move on and he only see's his kids part time, he will look within himself and realize what he did. I doubt it...but I can hope.
Hang in there. We're all here for you.
Is it me or are there more and more people joining or at least wondering if they need to join our little group?
Status: Struggling Everday to
what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another-Anatole France
Congratulations -- I hope you get the house you put the offer in. Sounds like the start of a new life!
And yes, I think you're wise to get counselling as a family and wiser still to let the counsellor understand the whole story. Your kids will benefit and it opens up the lines of communication for everyone.
I suspect there are many more people living this SA hell than we can imagine. And that, sadly, don't even know it yet.