Now I'm wondering if we should give it a try again. I'm skeptical -- my experience with MC has been a bit of a time waster. However, I think my H is a lot more motivated now...and I'd like to find out if I'll ever feel more for my husband than he's a good friend and great father.
Just wondering what your -- and others' -- experiences have been re. MC.
EO, is your husband sober? In recovery? (forgive me, I have a hard time keeping everyone's life history and details straight) If he is, then I suggest you give MC another try, it's a whole different ball game when your partner is sober and in recovery. That's been my experience. Once my rSA got sober and his recovery was going well, I was able to make changes for myself and now we can go to MC and address real issues in the marriage (the stuff that would be there regardless of the SA) and make real progress on it without focusing on the SA.
There is a 99.9999% sway that he indeed had actual sex w/ her...:( probably lots even...sorry...
It is just so tough to SEE it cuz it's so painful, I know...
Believe me *I* know...my h. is also a Christian & NEVER EVER thought he'd act out in-person...
Evidence is obvious...& his porn addiction probably has been around for years & years...:(
WHAT does your counselor suggest you do...???
Yes, he's in recovery -- IC that helped set up the SA program at a well-respected addiction centre and a 12-step group that seems to be helping him a lot. He's also reading and going through a DVD program that his IC provided to supplement their sessions.
He claims he hasn't acted out for close to 2 years (when I busted him for what I thought was a single affair), though I'm always hesitant to say outright that he hasn't because he lied to me so handily for so, so many years.
So yes, I can see where MC could help us. I think I've become quite cynical through all of this. There's a part of me that simply thinks whatever I ever thought was there was a total illusion and, therefore, can't be recreated. I used to be such an "eternal optimist" and now I'm just a cynical bitch.
However, perhaps it's time to resurrect my inner Pollyanna and give MC a try...
Thanks. You say there's a 99% chance he did have sex with this stripper gal. I am not sure, as I wasn't there of course.
MC says for me to not consider this fact too heavily, as it really doesn't matter that much. What matters is that he DID have an affair in all senses of the word, fully, completely. He also said it's pointless for me to keep asking, as he'll never tell me more than he has already which is "I never had sex with the stripper". This makes me of course trust my beloved husband so much less. As I don't feel he'll ever tell me the full and complete truth.
I have phone records for 5 months which show 5 phone calls a day to this stripper. Now come on, was this to talk about how great their burger was at Denny's???
Anyway, this is one reason why our marriage, I feel is going no where right now, there has been no full disclosure. If there was, I feel we could move on much better.
My husband says he does not want to go back to our MC, because he feels he's gay, and also because he knows he refuses to go to any more SA.
At this point, I feel once I have a job, I have to leave him. There is just no honesty/trust any longer, and I don't think I can handle being married to a SA any more. Today we were at the new local mall, and he was looking at every teen scantily dressed. I cannot take this for the next 30 years.
Question: How does one BS wife really find out the extent of their WS' involvement???? How????? If they won't fess up???
You probably cannot--won't find out...& obviously, your h. wouldn't agree to a polygraph, right?
And if he refuses to go to SA, look at his issues & addiction, you're right,there's nothing you can do...except move on.
It's horrific. And I'm so damn sorry for the LOT of us stuck in this nightmare beyond all nightmares.
My H. is trying to get sober/going to counsel. SA while separated, UNable to make ends meet (no work), & living w/ his psycho mom...& he ADORES his girls & the older one has only now finally agreed to going to talk to him only IN the counselor's office in a few weeks.
None of us know how he'll manage it...he's so ADD when things are 'normal" ,,,
I think I'm going to have to get a job no matter what he does...
Yep-----I'm looking for a job too, haven't found one yet, and I've been looking for 4 months now.!
I think what we both need is to learn how to be happy with or without our SA husbands. Either way, no matter what life has in store for us both, and for every wife is for us to honestly come to terms with their problem, and know we cannot fix them, control what they do, or cure them, or make them realize they need recover.
After a long time of me dropping it, my SA hubby tells me today, "I think I'll go to SA once a week but not any more, and not because anyone, tells me to."
I really do not think he had full-on sex with this stripper, as I found his diary I gave him in June when he moved out, and in it he said, he hopes to get to know this stripper better as time goes on, and he hopes she'll "open up more to him as the days go by". Also, for some odd reason, I believe my hubby when he swore with his hand on the Holy Bible, saying "I never had sex with the stripper". It doesn't matter though, an A is an A still, and I'm not any less hurt either way. I'm still so completely devastated, as you can understand.
P.S.. Do you want to have coffee one day? Will PM you.
[This message edited by Ingrid at 10:58 PM, October 15th (Wednesday)]
What should be an exciting trip for me to go out of town with my mom for the weekend, is giving me quasi panick attacks. I have a tight feeling in my chest and I am getting more and more unsettled as time ticks by... I leave Friday afternoon and this is my first weekend away from my H since all of this happened.
I used to go on trips with my girlfriends and not think twice about what was happening at home, but that was always when the acting out would peak... Always when he was bored and I wasn't there.
He has talked to his IC and he is trying to plan out his entire weekend hour by hour... He's been open and honest with me- Committed to his recovery, etc...
I just feel like crap. And then I feel like crap that I know I should be able to leave and feel ok; he's got to be in this situation sometime, but even still- I'm having a hard time!
Any suggestions to help me get through this weekend?- I am going to try so hard to have fun with my mom... I have been looking forward to this trip for awhile.
I hate that I feel this way.
Eternaloptimist and others,
I have the following to share about MC & IC from my own experience...
The month after D Day, Mr. Birdwatch & I both attended IC & MC. My shock, anger and hurt was so acute that only MC offered the forum for me to yell, scream and ask questions with Mr. Birdwatch present. MC gave us a forum to let it all out.
Thereafter, MC has been put on hold. It is agreed by both of our individual counsellors that Mr. Birdwatch has to resolve his own SA issues first before any couple's issues can be addressed. Mr. Birdwatch must fully acknowledge the problems, understand the cause of his misbehaviours, abandon his disassociation & compartmentalization, realize the full extent of the consequences to himself, to me & to our relationship, commit to a recovery program, and devise strategies to prevent relapses. Having MC before a SA has a handle on the above issues is like re-arranging the chairs on the deck of the titanic. In other words, what is the point of discussing coping strategies and improving communications as a couple if the SA is still not remorseful and is still acting out?
In addition, IC for the BS in the initial stages gives the BS much needed support that a BS deserves. In addition, the sad reality is that only a WS, not the BS, can change his own behaviours. If a BS rushes into MC thinking she can "fix" the MC, the BS would have switched the responsibility for recovery to herself and letting WS "off the hook" for taking responsibility for his own recovery.
Mr. Birdwatch and I are about 7 months out of D Day 1, and MC has not resumed. However, there are talks that MC may resume in the next couple of months.
I am not saying I am "right", I am just sharing my experience and thoughts in the hope that this post gives others some food for thought.
I am thinking of all of you and hope that everyone is coping okay.
[This message edited by birdwatch at 8:00 AM, October 16th (Thursday)]
I totally relate. My husband travels frequently for work, so I get that same sick feeling everytime he leaves as his acting out was always on the road when he was alone and bored/lonely whatever.
I just have to keep telling myself that he's got to get sober on his own. I can't help him. And that's so damn hard for me because he's playing with my life!
My WH seems to be doing everything right, he's going to IC, group and has accountability partners that he is always in contact with, but...
I have a question for everyone...
I'm struggling with the idea of this is how it's going to be. I get to constantly wonder if he's telling the truth or if he has selfishly threatened my life with another ONS? How do I find the trust again? How do I fall back in love with him? I love him dearly, but I just don't know if I can do this.
[This message edited by Mourning123 at 8:06 AM, October 16th (Thursday)]
And that's so damn hard for me because he's playing with my life!
I guess I have never felt so out of control about my own future before... I want our marriage to work and I want to be able to trust again... It feels so scary to have all of that in his court at this point. (Logically I realize that at any point in ANY relationship this is true, but it seems so much more scary since not only has it happened already, but we have to leave it solely in the hands of the addict who had the self control problem in the first place! Not the most comforting thought to make you feel safe!)
This is quite a lesson to have to learn... In reference to your question about how it's going to be in the future- My guess is that it will get better when consistently, time after time, our suspicions and fears are false. When we KNOW they are recovering because they are different. When they can talk openly about their challenges and not have the shame about their past.
I think the love will resurface. In fact, I think if they are REALLY recovering, we can love them even more than we did before... because we know what they have gone through to make themselves the best they can be. And they will finally love themselves enough to be able to give back some of the amazing love and support we've been giving them all along.
I can see glimmers of that, but not enough to calm my mind yet.
Take care... Thanks for the response...
My husband went to -- of all places -- Vegas (!!) not long after his disclosure to me re. the SA. I managed it by ensuring that he would be available by phone AT ANY TIME and that he would ALWAYS answer. He knew I was nervous about it and stayed in touch frequently, too.
Not a perfect solution, but gave me some comfort.
For me, however, the acting out mostly occurred at home when I was asleep. He'd stay up late, scour the Internet for equally screwed up people, then meet in a parking lot or some such. I'd be dozing away upstairs, none the wiser.
Perhaps I'm being naive, but once I pointed out to my husband that he jeopardized my health and the health of our kids (I breastfed all three and he was acting out and still having sex with me during those times) when he acted out, he seemed to "get it". It was, honestly, the first time he'd even really considered that. He insists he would never do that to me again. He also knows how humiliated I was sitting in the clinic to be tested for STDs, along with all the university/college kids. That was one of my lowest points and he knows it.
All you can do is let them know that you NEVER want to go through that again. Then, as much as we all hate to keep hearing it, it's out of your hands.
But please know, we all know how you feel.
And thanks birdwatch for those thoughts re. MC. Your experience sounds much like my own. But I think I'm ready to give it a try again. And work on the intimacy issues in the hopes that we can create a marriage that meets both our needs.
HOW did you all deal w/ the doctors for meds, therapy, etc. We can't tell our insurance KAISER) that he has SA! And they don't have help for thay anyway.
BUT. We think my WS needs anti-depress. etc...to see the psychiatry wing of Kaiser...as he has ADHD also...(& prob. NPD!!!)
WHAT did you share w/ your med. insur?
I need info ASAP please...thanks!
Exactly what you mention above is exactly what our MC told us, that it's pointless to work on our M issues until he works on his SA stuff. So, maybe in time we'll go together, for now I go to him for IC, and WS goes to IC.
"Any suggestions to help me get through this weekend?- I am going to try so hard to have fun with my mom... I have been looking forward to this trip for awhile."
Yes. A bottle of whiskey and some Valium.
Question: How does one BS wife really find out the extent of their WS' involvement???? How????? If they won't fess up???
If you are referring to the extent of the acting out, then if WS doesn't confess, you likely will never know.
There is also the question: how much do you really want/need to know or are you "pain shopping"?
I believe each of us is different as to how much information we want/need. You may wish to explore this with your IC. For example, if you know WS & OW had sex, then one may argue it would be "pain shopping" for you to want to know the exact sexual position(s) they were in.
Pain shopping is a BS's attempt to regain control. Our well-being and physical & emotional safety had been ruined by someone we love and we had no control over that - heck, many of us did not even have a clue about the SA. We feel helpless. It is normal for us to believe erroneously that the more information we have, the more control we have. But no amount of information will allow us to "control" WS' recovery and remaining sober.
However, it is my personal view that a BS should at a minimum know the general categories of the acting-out - porn? online sex? dating sites? phone sex? meeting? dating? sex? etc. Without this very basic information, I don't think you can move on, or protect yourself (from STDs for example).
If you are asking for practical ways to be a detective, I suppose you can review the websites your WS had visited, heck into his emails and text messages, contact OW, check his old credit cards/phone bills, address/phone book, etc. However, not all of these are beneficial to you and your R. For example, if you contact OW, who is to say she will not lie for her own twisted reasons? And what if her story conflicts with that given by your WS, whose story would you believe? However, I can tell you the "thing" that led me to discover my WS' infidelity was his credit card bill with a hotel charge on it.
I am sorry that I don't believe I have really answered your question, but merely to point out (a) how much information you need/want to know should be explored with your IC to ensure you are not pain shopping; (b) pain shopping does not give us more control.
[This message edited by birdwatch at 2:14 PM, October 16th (Thursday)]
No heartbeat on the ultrasound today. It died about 2 weeks ago. My body hadn't caught on yet so I have to have a D&C next week.
We are completely devastated. I'm just glad we had decided to wait and not tell our 4 year old anything yet. I can't even imagine explaining this to her.
I just have to say that this is fucking unfair. Really. We have worked so hard. We have come so far. This is just not fair.
You are absolutely right - this is totally fucking unfair.
Take care of yourselves.
I'm sooo sorry! HUGS....& prayers...
I've had 2 miscarriages & a baby die from SIDS years ago...I FEEL your pain...
Take care of each other...
I'm so sorry!!!
((Hugs)) for you.