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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: WS Questions for BS's
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for herding us in DS. And sorry - I didn't mean to start an avalanche.

As for the topic - neverendinghurt, we certainly talk about things. Quite a bit as a matter of fact. The survey isn't viewed in a vacuum by either of us. It just sparked questions for Wells. We talked a little more tonight and part of it comes from different definitions. She sees wants as the full set of things we would like, but needs as the things we have to have. I was viewing needs (does she fulfill all your needs) as all the things I would like, so all was too strong.

In the end by her definition, she exceeds my needs, and even reaches pretty close to hitting all my wants. She is the most amazing woman I have ever known, and will always be the only one I want and need as my best friend, my lover and my wife.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 7:42 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry DS, I was FTD at work and got interupted. Forgot which forum I was reading. Not really used to going into ICR, as I fear the long threads.

Back to your original (serious) question LC. I assume you mean the one from marriage builders. Although I love a lot of the stuff they have there, I never realy liked their questionaires. They may have been usefull for some guidance, things that we would not normally think of and such, but like my answer to the swallow question illustrates (or I am justifying bad behaviour), there are a lot of implicit assumptions involved in them.

Like you, I do not like the wording, in fact I wonder how you could like when someone meets your needs if they do not meet them. Yes I can get hung up on words and their meanings, but words only power is in the meanings we give them.

More importantly, as they acknowledge before the survey, each of us will assign a different importance to each of those needs. Is it even appropriate to expect a spouse to be responsible for meeting all of our needs? The questionaire seems to imply they should for whatever is most important, but what about my responsibility to meet my own needs? What if my needs are unreasonable? I have a need for certain kinds of conversations that I would not dream of inflicting on my wife, and it is my responsibility to meet those needs without harming my marriage. My wife has a need to be creative in many ways, and when she is making her own jewelry, my involvement is limited to admiring her handiwork, and occasionally suggesting a website or tool that she might find a use for. Just as she would be miserable not meeting that need for creativity, I would be miserable if I was expected to sit there linking rings together for a chainmail purse. (Actually I think she would be miserable if I sat there linking rings together for a chainmail purse with her)

Maybe what is more important is how well are those needs being met within the marriage, in a way that is not threatening to the marriage, not how well your spouse meets those needs.

Just like it is silly to think that a swallow really travels at the speed of light, it is also silly to expect your spouse to meet all of your needs. What if one of you dies?

How well are your needs being met in a manner that is healthy for your marriage?

ETA: Note to self, after being idle, refresh page before responding to thread.

[This message edited by aesir at 7:44 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
Sandcrab
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Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For a BS which need is more important? Emotional or physical? Does this depend on the person or maybe a gender thing? For me I know it is emotional but I believe for LJ it is physical.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
kdny
♀ Member
Member # 760
Default  Posted: 7:51 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For me, its emotional.


Whether we remain ash or become phoenix is up to us.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sometimes the fine line between a nervous breakdown and knowing things will be okay is a pair of furry pants~unfound

Posts: 81335 | Registered: Dec 2002 | From: Slightly left of center, standing on my head
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it depends on the person, and it probably varies. Whichever need has the greatest deficit is probably the one that will feel most important.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:00 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sandcrab - I will chime in with emotional too.

Being a girl, I feel like gender does indeed play a part in what need is more important to you.



BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Sandcrab
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Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What if a BS wants things that were talked about during the A but not actually done? What if these things are not actually a turn-on to the WS but the BS expects it to be because it was talked about?

Does that make sense?

[This message edited by Sandcrab at 8:08 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:09 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uhm... are we still talking about the same thing here on this thread?

I know that on marriage builders questionaire of emotional needs, physical affection and sexual satisfaction/gratification/whatever they called it were listed as emotional needs. Of course they have a longish list of needs, including conversation, child rearing, financial support, domestic duties...

If we are starting a new topic here, sorry to intrude.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sandcrab - could be me, but I don't understand - could you be a little more specific?

Do you mean like going to counseling or something?

[This message edited by wannabenormal at 8:11 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 8:30 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No I wasn't trying to change the subject just trying to expand it to include physical needs also.

No I wasn't talking about going to counciling. I was asking more about physical things done in the bedroom.

If there was something not originally done in the bedroom between spouses but in the messed up A time it was talked about a lot with the OP is it expected that the WS now do this thing even though the WS may not want to?

Never mind, I do not need an answer. I really do not want to go into more detail about this.

So back to your original programming on emotional needs.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
wannabenormal
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Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I thought you were probably talking about something of the physical nature since 'turn on' was mentioned.

I wouldn't do anything I was uncomfortable with and just tell BS that. I, personally, would understand.

[This message edited by wannabenormal at 8:34 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay sandcrab, I crossposted on that one, I assume you are talking about sexual acts or fantasies or something. Perhaps certain fetishes being discussed with AP, and now BS feels like they would be okay since WS has already expressed an interest in them with AP?

In a case like that, I think the important thing to remember is that fantasies are not reality. Even if an idea has some interest on a fantasy level, it could be truly awfull if ever attempted to realize. Lots of women find The story of O erotic, but I don't know of any that would actually want to live it. A milder example would be stripping. Based on the ppularity of pole dancing classes, I am assuming a lot of women like the fantasy of being a stripper, but when it comes to amatuer night, there are nothing but a bunch of professionals who show up hoping to win the money.

Are you talking about things like this, where some explanation like I gave above that your BS could relate to would apply, or are you talking about things that hold NO interest at all that you only talked about with AP to keep AP interested?

If it is anything that your BS has a real interest in, you will have a hard time explaining it. It may be seen as more of a rejection of BS and the explanation may come across as a rationalization even if it is not.

In either case, I think perhaps the standard mantra of be honest will apply.

ETA: I spent to long thinking and writing this one, and once again we crossposted. I hope you feel comfortable with the categories I broke it down into.

[This message edited by aesir at 8:41 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
DesertLotus
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Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 8:39 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If there was something not originally done in the bedroom between spouses but in the messed up A time it was talked about a lot with the OP is it expected that the WS now do this thing even though the WS may not want to?

I haven't been in this situation - but I'll be honest. I'd want to know why you would talk so much about it (with the OP) if you weren't interested in doing it. And I would have a hard time believing it wasn't actually done (in the affair). If it was talked about so much, ya - I would wonder what was up.

I don't think anyone should do anything sexually that they are not comfortable with. But, if it were me, I would have a very hard time believing that my husband had no interest in something he talked so much about. I would also have a very hard time believing he hadn't actually done it. JMO


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sandcrab & DL, I think there may be a gender difference on this one, just do to the nature of certain acts which are possible, and the relative pleasure or discomfort potential for either party involved.

Of course that depends on the act, which may be TMI.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
DesertLotus
♀ Member
Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gender differences? I was commenting on what I would have a hard time believing.

I would want to know why my husband wouldn't do *xyz* with me if he talked about it so much with the OW. I would want to know why, and I would not believe he had no interest if he talked so much about doing it.

I may not want to actually perform the act (it would depend upon what it actually was) - but you bet I'd want to know why it's ok to do xyz with the OP and not me?


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 8:57 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think there might be gender differences in the ability to believe that it was talked about but there is no real interest. I did not want to get graphic, but there are certain acts that do have a fantasy appeal to a lot of people, that men would not have a problem with, but that women might find enjoyable or uncomfortable KWIM. I think it is easier for a man to believe that a woman would talk about those things with AP without actually wanting to do them, but that a man whose AP talked about them would likely have no reservations on doing. I suppose there may be acts that this applies to the other way as well, but I can not think of any right now.

Your mileage may vary.

In either case, honesty is the best policy. It is easiest to be consistent if you are honest, and if you are consistently honest, eventually the inconsistencies may be viewed as part of the fucked up nature of A's.

Sandcrab, are we helping at all here?


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
DesertLotus
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Member # 9095
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would not personally go on and on about a sex act I had no interest in.

Therefore, I would have a hard time believing this.

That's all I'm saying.


"The mind creates the abyss, the heart crosses it." ~ Sri Nisargadatta

Posts: 10462 | Registered: Dec 2005
Sandcrab
♀ Member
Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:05 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

are you talking about things that hold NO interest at all that you only talked about with AP to keep AP interested?

This is it, YES I used to say things to the AP to keep him interested. But my husband believes that I talked about it so much because I wanted to do it, which is not true.

If it is anything that your BS has a real interest in, you will have a hard time explaining it. It may be seen as more of a rejection of BS and the explanation may come across as a rationalization even if it is not.

Yes my husband has an interest in this, I never really have. And he does feel rejection because of this. I have gotten to where I can do most of what he wants but completing it is where I have trouble and I can't seem to remove this block. I have talked to him about this but he believes it is him and nothing that I say will change his mind.

I guess I will just continue trying and maybe one day I can make him happy.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
Sandcrab
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Member # 10067
Default  Posted: 9:10 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think the important thing to remember is that fantasies are not reality. Even if an idea has some interest on a fantasy level, it could be truly awfull if ever attempted to realize.

I know that it was fantasy and not reality. I have a hard time trying to tell him that this is what it was. He still believes there is something wrong with him.

I guess I am banging my head over something that I shouldn't be, it is just that I never enjoyed doing what he wants. I will do it as best I can to make him happy though.

This is not something that I should be complaining over at all. He stood beside me and he has allowed me to stay and work on this so I should do all he asks no matter how I feel.

Thanks for helping everyone.


I ♥ LostJim

Adopt a chihuahua in your area
http://adopt-a-chihuahua.adoptapet.com/


Posts: 5618 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: wishing I was on an ocean beach somewhere...
aesir
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Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, July 2nd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Perhaps this may depend more on the nature of the early relationship between the spouses then. Was a similar dynamic in play when talking about fantasies early on where things were discussed but never actually done? Or perhaps attempted early on and not enjoyed so they were not done again?

Maybe it depends on the types of communication patterns that people have or had early in the relationship, How they talked about sex when it was not immediately possible...


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
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