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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

prayful

My thought is that you should ask him what his intentions are. Speculating is going to drive you crazy.

Your WH and his OW made some pretty significant investments in that relationship. Are you sure you're willing to let him back in? Do you know all that you need to know about what has changed in that situation?


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Momuv4

It's a tough deal, but the baby is a life brought into the world because of the two of you. Your WH is, obviously, interested in being involved in the baby's life. It sounds like he's trying not to be unfriendly and/or contentious during his visits.

If you want your WH to remain involved with you baby, then you're going to need to establish some ground rules about visitation. Have a friend or relative be there to chaperone while you make yourself scarce, or agree that he's not to talk to you unless you initiate the conversation.

I'm sorry this is such a tough situation for you.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 3:29 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HoBeGone

The 'why' question is like asking the for meaning of life. Every WS has a different story, and different internal wiring.

If you go back and read this entire tread, you will see volumes of information on your question. The bigger question is 'why did your WS choose to do what they did in your marriage?'


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
JW123
♀ Member
Member # 21265
Default  Posted: 5:36 AM, November 11th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOYALTY TO THE OP. I have read through the healing library and cant find anything on this. Please can a WS tell me if they felt "loyalty" to the OP. My D-day was 4 weeks ago and my H is in counselling. The counsellor now wants to meet me to discuss his "issues" one of which I believe is his feelings of "loyalty" to the OP. Please shed some light on this. Did you feel "loyal" to the OP, was it the fog? I am hurting that he even feels this way.

Thank you.


Him (WS)41
Me (BS) 41
3 beautiful children
D -Day 13 October 2008
He moved out - 1st June 2009.
Divorced - 29/11/2011
He lives with OP now
Married 15 years. Known him 21 years
(Although I suspected, denial is quite a thing)

Posts: 483 | Registered: Oct 2008
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, November 11th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JW123

Every situation is different, but in my case it was more a sense of dedication to the addiction of the relationship with OW. It's very real, particularly in the early stages following discovery by a BS, and is very hard to break.

I'm sure the counselor will have more specific insight into the 'loyalty' question for you. I just know from my experience that the connection (addiction) I felt for OW was strong, and I was compelled to hold onto it for as long as I could.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, November 11th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi JW, yes bear is right. I have posted my answer regarding to loyal to xOP in BS to WS FAQ.


The reasoning of putting xOP first was rooting from love addiction mind. During A, I was confused individual. Even though I was married, but I was thinking of myself as a wife and I was a royal girlfriend to xOP at the same time and I wanted to be connected with him 24/7. Since he was out of league (younger, lanky and artistic, someone whom I donít normally associate with), I made him up like some celebrity and put xOP on the pedestal.

And because we only had the limited opportunity to get together, whenever xOP wanted to get together, I tried to work around my schedule to meet his needs and not only I put my family lower priority, but I didnít respect myself either. I remember when I was even tired, I drove over to xOMís place so, I could get together. On the way back home, I kept saying why am I doing this to myself, but could not stop the behavior.

My FBH would ask, "I was always be here for you, but why did you always want him?" I would say "because I could not see xOM all the time, so whenever he is available, I need to see him"

ETA - I also want to emphasize hurting FBH here:

[During A, we both were emotionally abusing to each other. H did tell me no more seeing xOM and became snappy to me and to the kids, so I told him that I would stop A, but he told me he knew I would be depressed if I didn't see xOM. It continued for awhile. But eventually, the double life took a toll on me. I lost myself and didn't know who I was anymore. Also I didn't want the kids to suspect my life style either. I then finally told myself that ending A with xOM was the way to go. I encouraged xOM to move away from me.

Letting go of A was a gift to everyone. I found a treasure in H and I am cherishing and appreciating his love everyday. My priority has been changed and I am at peace.

[This message edited by beach at 10:27 AM, November 11th (Tuesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
Devestatedx5
♀ Member
Member # 16557
Default  Posted: 10:33 AM, November 11th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm probably missing the "big picture" here.

fWH/DH stated that he never wants to "disappoint me again". I told him that the only way he could ever disappoint me would be to repeat a ONS or similar (got to make sure to cover all my bases).

Part of the reason he doesn't "act/verbalize" things towards me is from the root problem of "not wanting to disappoint me."

What can I say to him that will enable him to say/do things for/to me DESPITE his fear of disappointing me.

This "fear" is holding him back from doing things/saying things that I NEED to hear/have done. His NOT saying or doing things is hampering our "R" - as I feel that "in-actions" are an indication of "rejection/not understanding what I need/not wanting or being able to meet my needs."

I liken it to a saying I read here at SI:

ďIn any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.Ē
― Theodore Roosevelt

By the way, to the best of my recollection (both sober and stone-cold drunk), and encompassing our entire time together (dating/engaged/married), I can't recall a SINGLE time (neither can he) that I said anything remotely similar to "I'm disappointed with you."


FBS-me (49)
FWH(57) ONS 8.19.07
Dday: 9.19.07
Married +26 years
RE-MARRIED 4.28.11
----------
Proverbs 31:10-31
Sometimes people are SO open-minded that that their brains fall out.

Posts: 2598 | Registered: Oct 2007
queneanth
♀ Member
Member # 15816
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, November 11th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't post here much, but...

I am always curious about the reasons that the WS gives to their AP about why they are staying in their relationship/marriage.I always hear "for the kids" or "we have alot invested$$$, the mortgage. etc..." or "our families are soooo close" as the reasons.

In my case, FW(boyfriend at the time, now H) and I had none of that:

1)No kids together (our kids were all grown)
2)We rent a home
3)We have no assets together, other than individual 401k's

In other words, all the usual excuses flew out of the window.We have been together for a long time, but given the "usual" reasons for staying with your spouse, what reason did you give your AP?

BTW, I have asked him, and he has replied that he has always wanted to be with me, he just got too into himself and his own outlook. He never told this to his AP, he just ignored her contact attempts.

I am just wondering if any WS/FWS on here can relate to our situation at the time, and what were YOUR reasons??


"The hardest thing in life to learn, is which bridge to cross and which bridge to burn."

Posts: 560 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: in between
JW123
♀ Member
Member # 21265
Default  Posted: 12:52 AM, November 12th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Beach and Bear. Your responses are so appreciated. I guess I just wait until I speak to the counsellor and try to make sense of this mess


Him (WS)41
Me (BS) 41
3 beautiful children
D -Day 13 October 2008
He moved out - 1st June 2009.
Divorced - 29/11/2011
He lives with OP now
Married 15 years. Known him 21 years
(Although I suspected, denial is quite a thing)

Posts: 483 | Registered: Oct 2008
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 1:03 PM, November 12th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am very sensitive these days because I have had two FRs.

When I decided to give R another try - my H was open and helpful, transparent, etc. I, of course, thought he was this way before but he was still talking to OW. What I noticed from that was - he would be willing and caring - then shut down (usually when other woman contacted him and he was conflicted).

Well - now - He has been incredible for 2 weeks, last week - moody and crabby. Of course his mood sets me off as if something is going on. He assures me this is not the case and from all evidence - I believe there is NC.

He says he is afraid I am going to confront him with another thing - question or something that I don't believe the answer to - and although he understands why (he created this) he is still worn out and just wants some peace.

Can I be overreacting. And he is trying not to be rude - but is just worn down.
Two weeks ago - he was willing to do "ANYTHING" and now he seems moody and worn out at the subject.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
Copeland
♂ Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, November 12th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

roccodom-does he have any idea how worn out you most likely are? you have to think about the A every minute of every day and try to come to grips with it.

I'm sorry it tires him to have to deal with your pain The way I look at it for myself is that anything I feel right now is small potatoes next to what I put my BSO through. If I'm tired, that's too bad. If I get upset by questions, I am a human being and can share those feelings with her-in fact I require myself to share these feelings with her because not sharing my feelings became the runaway snowball that got me here in the first place.

If he is moody and it bothers you, I say call him on it. Make him put it into words. If he's afraid that you're going to ask him more, then tell him to take the initiative and tell you what you're afraid you might ask him.

I'm glad he's showing you the capacity to display relationship building behavior, but he'd better know that its gonna take a helluva lot of work and its going to drain him. He needs to figure out how to take care of himself so he can be available to you. You don't have any responsibility to take care of him.


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
Copeland
♂ Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, November 12th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and make sure he's doing is part to be a good dad to those little ones...I've got two of my own and know that I took time away from them during my A as well.


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
roccodom
♀ Member
Member # 19714
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, November 12th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

copeland -

Thank you - very good advice.


BS - me (45) WS - him (45)
married 16 yrs (DS 11yrs, DD 9yrs)
#1 PA - DDay 12/97
#2 PA DDay 5/08
#3 PA DDay 2/12
Trying R
Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security.


Posts: 789 | Registered: May 2008 | From: MO
prayful
♀ New Member
Member # 20961
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, November 12th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bear

I am afraid to ask him anything for fear of rejection. I have been thinking about writing him a letter and asking why he acted that way. I really don't know what to do.

I have no clue what is going on with him since he lives over an hour away. To be honest, I have not heard from him only thru email since that second meeting.

Deep down in my heart I know it is over. But I don't want to give up. Our relationship if that's what you want to call it is in limbo. No divorce, not really talking....I just don't know what to think or do anymore.

You are right. I am going crazy! I cry every day a few times a day thinking about everything. I am in such pain. I have been in IC but I don't know...it just does not seem to be working.

I cannot imagine the upcoming holidays without him. I don't know how I'll stay strong for my children. They are both in so much pain and he is absolutely clueless.

When will these feeling ever go away???


BS (Me)49 yrs WS 46 yrs--D-DAY 5-16-08--He moved out 5-18-08 and she moved in w/him 6-7-08
Married 23 Years/Together 24 Years
2 beautiful, bright children. Son 21YRS (College)Daughter 18 YRS Mary,Undoer of Knots,Pray for Me!
In R since June, 2008

Posts: 38 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: PA
cani4give
♂ Member
Member # 19601
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, November 12th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After the WS truly commits to R and has worked on their issues thru IC, can a WS really be smitten with their BS? Really think their BS is so special?

I am having a really hard time thinking of myself as special to my FWW. Last year we purchased a new car. I researched several models and narrowed it down to a few choices. My wife *loved* the first one we test drove. I wanted to take a look at the other models too but my wife didn't need to. She KNEW that was the one she wanted.

I wish my wife thought of me like that car. But instead she had to try out something else before she was sure. I feel like in the end she said, "Eh, I guess you will do."


BH: Me
FWW: Her
2 amazing children

Posts: 615 | Registered: May 2008
Copeland
♂ Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cani4give-Everybody's differnent, but I can tell you this: I fall in love again more and more everyday with my BSO. Its hard though, because she doesn't have the same feelings for me, but that's just something I've got to sort out for myself.

I feel your pain and am sorry you have to go through it. I think sometimes we WSOs project our feelings of love and tenderness that should be going to our SO onto the AP. In other words, her AP got what was rightfully yours. When she starts really seeing you again and connecting with you those feelings will be directed back to you, their rightful owner. My A wasn't because I was dissatisfied with my SO, it was because I wanted to escape from life and I chose to do it in a cowardly way. There are so many factors in these stupid A's.

Take good care of yourself. Do the things that you love to do. Be yourself for yourself and that is what will show you off as that unique showroom shiny car that you truly are. People who really care about life are irresistable imho.

[This message edited by Copeland at 8:13 AM, November 13th (Thursday)]


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
Ibelieveinlove
♀ Member
Member # 20921
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cani4give,

Ditto everything that Copeland has said and he has said it so well.

My A (and as far as I can tell, most As) are not about the AP, but about the feelings and validation that the WS gets while engaged in an A...

Therefore, when I realized what I had risked and really looked at my H with fresh eyes, I fell in love with him all over again and realized how special he is... please realize that your FWW's A was not about you and value yourself.


Posts: 276 | Registered: Sep 2008
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

prayful

I'm afraid the 'rejection' factor is already messing with your mind. Seeking out clarity and/or intentions would help you get past whatever mile marker you're at right now. Your WH has made some VERY significant choices that appear to be pretty definitive about your marriage. The problem is that he is having it his way without regard for the traumatic state he's left you in.

For your own mental health (and for the health of your 16 y.o.), I think you need to force the action with some sort of 180 to get him off the fence. In order for you to be healthy, you're going to need to take control of whatever you can control in order to build self confidence. Right now, you're allowing the unknowns to control you.

I'm not minimizing the 'rejection' factor at all. It can be debilitating, I know. Right now, however, you need to be proactive to get ahead of that curve.

As far as the holidays are concerned: can you plan something completely different? Go somewhere with your kids, friends, or family that will focus you on things other than what went wrong. Get out of your traditional routine.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
feelingsick08
♀ Member
Member # 21403
Default  Posted: 5:18 PM, November 14th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS has been up and down about making another attempt at our relationship. First he says he wants to try again, then he is unsure. He is acting very remorseful and his actions are not those of someone who is planning on leaving? Is this a normal reaction, or is he just trying to save my feelings?
Also, after the A happened, he called me instantly to tell me. Ostensibly because he didn't want me to call the police when he was out at a late hour. I find it strange that he told me he right away, almost would have felt better had he hidden things for awhile, and then tried to exit out of the relationship. Any insight would be appreciated...


"Everybody, sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences."-Robert Louis Stevenson

Posts: 58 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Pacific Northwest
Copeland
♂ Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 1:30 PM, November 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

feelingsick-I don't know how far out you are from d-day, but this infidelity crap just turns everything upside down (like this is news to you ) But you're having to somehow incorporate this into your mind, and so is he. Know this though-he owes you everything right now. If he has even a sliver of desire to R he needs to fight to be completely honest with you.

Let him know you need to know what he is feeling even if he thinks you don't want to hear it. If he's struggling, tell him you want to know. For you its the not knowing that is a killer right now. What can you believe?

I truly believe he is struggling to figure out where he is, what he means to you and what you mean to him. That's not a bad thing, but he needs to talk about it. He's probably afraid of 2 things-Hurting you more, and getting himself into more trouble by telling you something that makes him look even worse.

Really, how much worse can he look than right now? If you are open to talking with him and you are interested in R, tell him that the first requirement you have from him is to be totally open and honest with you and answer ANY questions you have.

He's got a lot of work to do. Both of you do. This is no easy business we find ourselves in.


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
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