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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
brokendreamz
♀ Member
Member # 18436
Default  Posted: 12:52 AM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are there any WH - who genuinely felt remorse/guilt/horrible shame and just buried it inside - Just couldn't bring themselves to face it and never shared their true feelings with their W?

Also if you genuinely felt remorse/guilt/horrible shame -And you wanted to reconcile - Was there ANYTHING that could stop you from trying to win back your wife?

edited to add -

thank you!!

[This message edited by brokendreamz at 12:53 AM, November 7th (Friday)]


Posts: 1077 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: SouthEast
Forgotten1
♀ Member
Member # 20827
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Fallen! And I, like your husband, have trouble believing in forever. Right now, forever means "for now". It's hard to move past that.


BW(me)-34
XWH (him)- 41
M - 12/31/97
One darling son - 13
DDay 1 - 1/16/08 OW1
DDay 2 - 8/28/08 OW2
DDay 3 - 9/7/09 OW3 and OW4 and Idk how many more.
Divorced - 8/17/11

Posts: 226 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Here...there....wherever...
nlovemyfamily
♀ Member
Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


If a FWS could send one pivital message to WS who is S and still involved with AP what would it be?

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
Copeland
♂ Member
Member # 21005
Default  Posted: 9:37 AM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would tell him there are some things that once done can never be undone. Right now is one on those things. Think carefully and choose carefully, because the decison you make now is uniquiely critical.

It will decide the course of your life and should not be looked at lightly or selfishly.


Male 49-No longer defining myself by fidelity roles...been both. Time for a new start.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."-Leonard Cohen

Posts: 854 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Midwest
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ticked Off,

I don't know your WH, so I can only give you my perspective on your question.

I'm not a real verbal processor. Talking things out is not one of my strengths and/or in my comfort zone. Once I've talked about something, especially on several occasions, I feel like it's had enough focus.

I know from reading some of your previous posts that you are not completely satisfied that your WH has given you enough information to satisfy your 'why?' factor. He may not know, and everything he throws out comes off (to you) as excuse making. On the other hand, he may know 'why', and simply doesn't want to tell you. Going over it again and agian isn't going to change that.

Men and women communicate differently (generalization), and some don't really communicate at all, even in long term marriages. A discovered affair throws us into a demand for communication like none experienced before. Some people aren't up to the task. That's why counselors can make a living.

As to why your WH reacts the way he does when you want to 'talk' about his A, again, it could be any and/or all of the things you mentioned. The one I might add is 'embarassment'. I suppose 'shame' is a kissing cousin, but I know I just feel embarrassed that I let myself get into the situation in the first place (or, as you have pointed out before, allowed myself to get caught). We can't undo what happened, but there's a certain 'how could you have been so stupid' factor that's hard to continue to face.

He may not be able to answer your questions satifactorily, and he knows it. If he's a stoic type, he may be out of energy and/or words.

My take.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 2:23 PM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Bear for your honest answer as always. However, my question was more about his need to run and hide when "any" affair is brought up. (a friend's, on tv, in a movie) Why is it he is not able to discuss it.

My mention of any affair at all sends him running in a huff refusing to talk about it. Why?? If I am learning to deal with it and discuss affairs in general, shouldn't he?


Posts: 2381 | Registered: Sep 2005
tooexhausted
♀ Member
Member # 15232
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, November 7th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been separated from WH for 10 months. He wants to return to the marriage--I might allow this if specific conditions are met.

He is concerned that he would be a persona non grata with my friends. Obviously it would be an awkward situation for him. How should he handle this "elephant in the room"? Say nothing? Say something?

Thank you.

[This message edited by tooexhausted at 10:16 PM, November 7th (Friday)]


Posts: 898 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Living in the moment
prayful
♀ New Member
Member # 20961
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, November 8th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband left 6 months ago after a long distance affair with a whore from CA. He claims they were together a total of 4 times from October of last year until the time she moved to PA. She left her 15 yr marriage and 12 yr old daughter behind to be with my H. She moved to PA in June to be with him.
I posted 2 wks ago when i saw him for the first time in 2 1/2 months since my daughter refuses to see him when my son is not here (away at college). We had to meet over transferring my children's car over to my name. Anyway, he cried (actual tears), told me he missed me and loved me and thinks about what happened every day. He hugged me and kissed me on the cheek. (He did not say he wanted to come back but apologized for everything he put the kids and I thru).

I wanted to grab him and beg him to come home but instead I said we just need to move on.

I saw him the following week for about 5 minutes and when he was leaving he gave me a hug again.

Please read "my story" to get an idea of our marriage.

My real question (questions) are has anyone of you gone back after living with OP after 6 months or so. Are there any woman who left their children to be with the OM. She moved 3,000 miles away and her daughter refuses to speak to her. WS and OW went out there Colombus Day weekend on business and daughter would not see her. I would have tried like hell to do anything possible but of course, I would never be in that position to walk away from my children in the first place.

Another question, the way he acted...do you thing the "fog" is thinning out?? Or is it guilt, the holidays coming up, or that he actually does care.

I can't see walking away from a 23 year relationship for a whore who must have major issues to leave a daughter like that. OW and H were in the process of building a new home and she walked away from that as well.

And I insane for still hoping and praying he will come back to me and our children?

I find it so very hard to move on. I think about us every day and every minute. I am hurting so bad inside my heart is ready to blow. It's been how many months now and I see no light at the end of this dark tunnel. I am in IC and even on meds but I just can't seem to move on.

I do go out with friends now and then and have been staying away from the TV and doing things to keep me occupied. I was doing fairly well for awhile but now slipping back again. I think it has to do with the holidays coming up.

I can't tell him how I feel because I am afraid of hurting even more then I do now.

Can someone give me some much needed help??

Thanks all for listening!

[This message edited by prayful at 12:06 PM, November 8th (Saturday)]


BS (Me)49 yrs WS 46 yrs--D-DAY 5-16-08--He moved out 5-18-08 and she moved in w/him 6-7-08
Married 23 Years/Together 24 Years
2 beautiful, bright children. Son 21YRS (College)Daughter 18 YRS Mary,Undoer of Knots,Pray for Me!
In R since June, 2008

Posts: 38 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: PA
Momuv4
♀ Member
Member # 17798
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, November 8th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My exH wants to be my buddy it seems. He chose OW over his wife, family including a newborn baby. He cheated on me thru my entire pregnancy. I am/was devastated. He and OW are seeing eachother more and more.

When H comes to see baby for his visits he wants to chat with me. When I don't want to or am pissy and hurt he gets angry wondering why I am acting that way. He is here to see baby, not me.

Today he got angry because I wouldn't tell him mine and baby's plans for the day. None of his business.

Now he is texting asking how my mom is as he heard she was ill. When I don't respond he gets pissy again, saying how concerned he is. If its not about baby I don't respond.

He chose OW and threw us under the bus. Why does he want to keep this friendly contact all the time? I don't want to play happy divorced family with he and OW.


Me: 44,H: 35,Married 1 year
Divorced 07, pregnant right after.
Thought we were in R, wrong!
H still involved with OW 2/08
H said he was committed
3/08 Little Girl Born!
7/08 DUI and found contact with OW
Kicked him out!
Trying to rebuild

Posts: 972 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: California
Violette
♀ Member
Member # 13779
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tooexhausted,

He is concerned that he would be a persona non grata with my friends. Obviously it would be an awkward situation for him. How should he handle this "elephant in the room"? Say nothing? Say something?


I think the best approach is to face down the elephant in the room and let them all know he is there with hat in hand. Admitting to others that you have made terrible choices, acknowledging the behaviours and way in which they hurt his wife (you), will go a loooong way towards showing your friends he is more than the sum of just his A actions. I think it may help him feel as though he is trying to earn back respect.

A little humility goes a long way. If they are truly your friends, they would want you to be happy. If you are telling them you will be happy if you two R, then this is simply yet another consequence of his actions he has to man up and face.


Facing these situations will help him free his soul from the guilty torture. I promise.


FWW - Me(34)
BS Mr. Violette(36)
D-Day-Jan 1/07
R'ing with everything we've got

Me, you, the dog and cat....the rest are details.


Posts: 1238 | Registered: Feb 2007
Violette
♀ Member
Member # 13779
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If a FWS could send one pivital message to WS who is S and still involved with AP what would it be?

It depends. Is the S mutual or only requested by the WS? Im going to assume thats the case.

****

To the WS,


You dont know me, and I dont know you. But, I do know something about what you are going through. I have to ask, how can you be sure what you are doing is the right decision for yourself? This person you have left your marriage for, do you trust them? I mean, with your life, pulling the plug kinda trust. How can you ever trust them in the fidelity department? Both of you have shown that a committment to your vows is secondary to your own personal happiness. Whos to say that person you have given up your other life for, wont again choose themselves over you?

Where is the harm in taking the time to fully seperate your old life from the new one you think is better? Facing down your own demons will only help you in your next relationship, or in your current one. I cannot begin to describe the serious disconnect I had with the world around me. Nothing I saw was as it seemed. My own personal issues and lack of ability to deal with them completely painted a very very wrong picture of the situation in my marriage. The depression I was fighting and the stress I was putting myself through combined to create a situation where I thought the only solution was the one I chose.

Things are never as they seem. Once I dealt with my own issues and faced down what I had done, the clarity of my situation hit me full force.

My advice to you is to give yourself the time and the tools to gain this clarity. Else you run the risk of spending more of your life chasing your tail.

Love yourself first, because no one else will be able to understand you better than you can.

Things cannot be undone. You are running away from issues and problems that have solutions if you are willing to see them.



FWW - Me(34)
BS Mr. Violette(36)
D-Day-Jan 1/07
R'ing with everything we've got

Me, you, the dog and cat....the rest are details.


Posts: 1238 | Registered: Feb 2007
HoBeGone
♀ New Member
Member # 21567
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have JUST ONE question ...

Why?



Me - 35F - BS - Smart, Beautiful, Faithful
Him - 29M - WS - Asshole, Diagnosed Sex Addict
Son - 5
Together 7.5 years, Married 5.5 years



Posts: 31 | Registered: Nov 2008
tooexhausted
♀ Member
Member # 15232
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you, Violette, for your very thoughtful answer.


Posts: 898 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Living in the moment
PiQue
♀ Member
Member # 17575
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have any WS apologized, thought about apologizing, or been asked by their BS to apologize to their teen or adult children for the impact their A had on the children's lives?

My teen DDs became aware of WH's A and it has seriously clouded their relationship with him. He doesn't understand why. The one time I said anything, he replied that it was between he and I and didn't involve the kids.

I look at the years he spent preaching honesty and integrity to them. Then turned around and practiced otherwise...


Me/BW 50+
Him/WH 60+ Long Distance LTA
NEVER ignore your gut.


Posts: 2881 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: Mid-Atlantic Region
lookinforward
♀ Member
Member # 20577
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, November 9th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd love to see an answer to brokendreamz questions. I too wonder about remorse.

WS's what do you feel is really a sign of remorse?

Would a WS that is remorseful be angry at their BS expressing their fears or concerns surrounding the A?

Would a WS that is remorseful feel a BS was trying to control them by asking them to block the AP's number from getting through to the cell phone?

Would a WS that is remorseful keep saying when is it going to stop? If I do this, what is the next thing you are going to ask me to do?

I know that at some point I need to let go, but it has only been 5 months since DD1 and not even 2 from DD2 and 3 of those months I spent the entire time trying to convince WS to not leave, so really it has only been 2 months since we really decided to R.

Can you succeed in R without WS showing remorse?


~Without Struggle, There is no Progress

Posts: 1992 | Registered: Aug 2008
TellingLiesSucks
♂ Member
Member # 20868
Default  Posted: 12:14 AM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are there any WH - who genuinely felt remorse/guilt/horrible shame and just buried it inside - Just couldn't bring themselves to face it and never shared their true feelings with their W?
Also if you genuinely felt remorse/guilt/horrible shame -And you wanted to reconcile - Was there ANYTHING that could stop you from trying to win back your wife?

bd -- I have not tried to hide my feelings from my BW. I think facing it all is part of not doing it again.

Still, be careful when you lump remorse/guilt/shame together. I feel them all -- and they are different. True remorse will keep me from ever doing this to any human being again -- including myself. Yet while I am ashamed of what I did, I realize that burying myself in shame will weaken my self-esteem to the point where I am trash, and as trash I may cheat again, because that is what trash does, right?

I kept too much buried inside for too long. That is the kind of thing that gets in the way of R.

WS's what do you feel is really a sign of remorse?

lf -- I think signs of remorse are different for different folk; most importantly it is giving the BS what is needed. Sacrifices, small and large. Working hard in IC and MC, doing little things I didn't before, opening up when it is really hard. Backing away when it kills me that she doesn't want to even talk to me, like tonight, the reason why I am typing here.

Would a WS that is remorseful be angry at their BS expressing their fears or concerns surrounding the A?

I have sometimes been selfishly angry - angry and hurt that I can't be who I was to her, especially when it seems like we get so close, and then something I did months ago stops us cold. If anyone else did this to my wife, I would want to bash in his head. And yet, I did. How do I reconcile that?

Oops. BS questions for WS.

To the rest of your questions, lf, I will share what our MC shared with us, paraphrased and less eloquently.

A married couple weave a tapestry of their life together, and it only goes in one direction. The A is a horrible flaw that leaves the weavers with a dilema. Leave the tapestry unfinished? Keep weaving like you have been, most likely with more flaws?

Or, learn how to weave (communicate, cooperate, be transparent, etc) as a team to make that tapestry worthwhile, if not perfect.

IMHO, looking back with remorse is one way we show we are better weavers. Two months is nothing. If he is complaining about piddly stuff like that, my guess is he is not connected to your feelings. Maybe your MC, if you are seeing one, can help him get it.


For every lie I told her, I told two to myself.

"I'm sorry" is about the lamest thing I have ever said, and yet I whisper it in my heart all day. Until I see her eyes, then I shout it.


Posts: 337 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Lost in (Inner)Space
Galoot
♂ Member
Member # 19272
Default  Posted: 9:55 AM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

New question for FWS's:

It's been about 3-1/2 months since FWW ended her 5-month PA. Things have been going relative smoothly, though with the usually stuff. One thing has been becoming evident is, as the fog has worn off, FWW has been feeling more and more guilty and ashamed of what she had done. She's been thanking me more and more for hanging in there while she "sorted through her feelings."

But now we've reached an impasse. We've been talking about things that led up to the A, and how to prevent them in the future. We both have agreed we drifted apart, and both need to give more attention to the other.

However, FWW wants to insist that I am 50% to blame for the A. I said I was at least 50% responsible for the distance that came between us, but that the direct cause was her inappropriate relationship with her friend, who later became her lover. She says if I hadn't been so withdrawn, she wouldn't have been driven to what she did. I said if she feels it was my fault, even partially, then what's stopping her from another A next time she feels neglected.

I told her I'm totally committed to meeting her needs for affection and attention, and she admits that I have done so very well. We even talked last night about renewing our wedding vows. I asked what difference does it make who's to blame, so long as we meet each others needs from here on.

But now she is saying that if we can't get past this, that we might as well get divorced. She has always avoided feeling guilty and repsonsible in the past, and apparently as she is becoming consious of the magnitude of what she did, she is finding it harder to live with herself, and, to cope, must have me responsible, at least partially, for it.

Any advice from FWS? Will she get over this? Anything I can say to her? I've worked so hard so far at this, trying to show her affection and attention and avoiding angry outbursts, even during the height of her infidelity, her lies and her broken promises. I'd hate for the marriage to go down the tubes because of pride.

Thanks in advance


BH (me) 54 yrs.
FWW 51 yrs
DDay 2/23/08, 1 day after PA started
NC commenced 8/02/08, final dday 8/6/08

Posts: 83 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: Almost Heaven
Ibelieveinlove
♀ Member
Member # 20921
Default  Posted: 10:11 AM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Galoot,

I completely agree with you that you are 50% responsible for the problems in your marriage, but not 50% responsible for her A. That is 100% her responsibility because that was her CHOICE, no matter what issues there were in the marriage...

I commend you for recognizing together that there were issues in your marriage that needed to be repaired and for agreeing to do this together but i think that is only part of the work to be done.

I said if she feels it was my fault, even partially, then what's stopping her from another A next time she feels neglected.

This is so valid and I have been asked this by my BH many times. The answer is that your WS needs to do a lot of introspection and self-reflection about why she had an A... understand those reasons and repair herself (her self-esteem, need for external validation, etc.)

This is separate from the problems that existed in the M... some people will never stray, no matter how bad a marriage gets. It seems like right now, she is beginning to deep into the reasons for her A but is still placing a lot of the blame on you rather than looking within herself. She needs to do some healing on her own before you 2 can truly heal together.


Posts: 276 | Registered: Sep 2008
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ticked Off

I think that your WH believes that the discussion of 'any' affair will directly or indirectly get around to discussing his own affair. The only perspective he could bring to the discussion is his own experience. Being thoughtful about someone else's situation will force him to be introspective.

I have a manager, that works for me, who gets aloof and angry whenever he is confronted with a situation in which he is ill-prepared or incapable of dealing with. Everybody around him is pushed back to arm's length. It's a stall tactic at best, and an avoidance tactic the rest of the time.

It just seems to me that your WH is trying to avoid as much 'discovery' about the whole affair topic as he can. His body language and behavior is his way to put you off on this issue.

What do you hope to gain from additional discussions about affairs of 'any' type?
Have you told him what you hope to learn?


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, November 10th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tooexhausted

Since you guys have been separated for 10 months, it would seem pretty obvious that there's something not perfect in your marriage. So, clearing the air about the 'whys' would be the only reason for a disclosure statement.

What have you been telling your friends up to this point? Do they all know why you're separated?

My advise would be to tell them as much (or as little) as you and your husband are ready for. The reasons that you're back together are really nobody else's business. If you want to make it more public information, then that is your call.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
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