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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
JW123
♀ Member
Member # 21265
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why is my WS hiding the fact that he is going to counselling from me? What is going on in his head, is it because it is the same counsellor that OP is going to? I am so confused - why hide it from me?


Him (WS)41
Me (BS) 41
3 beautiful children
D -Day 13 October 2008
He moved out - 1st June 2009.
Divorced - 29/11/2011
He lives with OP now
Married 15 years. Known him 21 years
(Although I suspected, denial is quite a thing)

Posts: 483 | Registered: Oct 2008
Wantingtoforgive
New Member
Member # 21470
Default  Posted: 9:14 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do you know that your WS is really sincere in wanting things to work? How do you know they are not just saying that to save themselves the embarrassment of having to explain to family/friends why their family is broken apart? I don't want this pain ever again!

Posts: 6 | Registered: Oct 2008
numbandsad
♀ Member
Member # 19158
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by numbandsad at 7:51 AM, August 11th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 82 | Registered: Apr 2008
numbandsad
♀ Member
Member # 19158
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wanttoforgive....I have thought about this very same thing, I am a BS and I don't have an answer but your not alone...

I even said to my WH in a very heated argument that in out D it would read that we were divorcing due to his infidelity and that all of our friends and family would be made aware of his extra circular activities and them causing our D!

It's hard...I often wonder if he loves our lifestyle more than he loves me....


Posts: 82 | Registered: Apr 2008
LookingforLove
♀ Member
Member # 12002
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am posting this again because I don't know if anyone has seen it or it just got buried..

? for Fws--

In a nutshell--found out H is still seeing OW--this has been off and on for 3 years. I commited myself to 180 about a week ago (last D-Day)--fell off at the weekend (had sex)--got into another argument with him this past Monday where we were yelling at each other. I asked why he keeps doing this he said he doesn't know, doesn't love her and I called him evil, he's unremoursefull and I asked him if he is going to continue doing what he is doing--and he yelled back yes (don't know if he said it to make me hurt cause I hurt him or if he is telling the truth)--who knows after three years..
--so I am back on the 180 diet--we are barely speaking..

H got mad at me tonight because youngest son is having trouble with homework and he blames me because I want to do everything regarding school and I was the one who went to conference and talked with the teacher and he is still having trouble..

I can not leave right now due to financial reasons but I can not have sex with him anymore if he is going to continue..I have to do something different--

Will 180 still work even though now he has found a reason (son) to be mad at me instead of me at him?

I am afraid to withhold sex in fear that it will make H turn to her more but what can I do? It sickens me to know he is still doning this...He has no feelings...

I am trying to knock him off the fence,,am I going about this wrong since either one of us are not in a position to leave right now?

Thanks!


Me: BS
Him: WS LTA 6+ yrs
OW: Skank Company HO
Status:
Divorce filed 4-5-11
WH served on 4-6-11 with D papers and NC order.
Divorced: 4/20/12

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Washington State
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LookingforLove - it's just a timing thing. We try to provide answers as quickly as we can.

Will 180 still work even though now he has found a reason (son) to be mad at me instead of me at him?

You need to decide and lock in on your dealbreakers and then not waiver from them. Remember that the 180 is not designed as punishment for the WS, nor is it strictly about "witholding sex". It's about allowing yourself to grow stronger by focusing on what you need to heal and to be strong within yourself.

Based on what you have shared, R could not possibly occur. It requires NC, honesty, full transparency and counseling.

I am afraid to withhold sex in fear that it will make H turn to her more but what can I do?

Do you really want him? From what I have seen, the R's that succeed are the ones where the FWS is fully remorseful and willing to do all that is required to heal voluntarily. You cannot force remorse in your WH - he needs to adopt it on his own. All you can control is focusing on making yourself stronger. As you do, your WH will either take the easy path out and go to OW (in which case you know that the M will not survive) or will be shocked back into reality. But that reaction is in his control, not yours.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JW123 -

Why is my WS hiding the fact that he is going to counselling from me? What is going on in his head, is it because it is the same counsellor that OP is going to? I am so confused - why hide it from me?

Has he told you why he feels he needs to hide it? It could be because the IC is connected to OW (not a great move if you ask me, but if the person is professional and blocks the cross contamination of information then it might work). But it could also be that there is a traditional feeling for guys that IC reflects weakness, and there is nothing a guy hates more than looking weak in front of others.

Only your WH knows the reason he is holding back. But I think it's worth having a conversation about.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:27 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wantingtoforgive and numbandsad -

How do you know that your WS is really sincere in wanting things to work?

It depends on the stage. Immediately following D-Day, did they commit to NC, honesty, full transparency and counseling? Are they open in letting you see emails, texts, etc. or do they get defensive about their "right to privacy"? Are they openly willing to get IC to fix themselves or are they resisting the idea that they need to change? These are strong early indicators of a WS committed to healing and reconciling.

Over time, are their actions starting to reflect someone who is back and invested in the family? Are they doing more around the house to help out? Are they starting to help the kids with homework or volunteering to take them on an outing somewhere? Are they expressing their love for you in a variety of ways from texts and emails to cards and gifts? As a FWS emerges from the fog, their focus shifts from what you need to do for them to what they can do for you (and others).

I hope these might help a bit in your own assessments of where things stand.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

numbandsad -

Did other WS expect their BS to trust them shortly after the A was revealed?

I'm not so sure it's about an expectation of trust so much as a hope for trust. It took a while for me to realize that while I knew the full story, my BW only knew pieces. And based on my prior actions, I had become an unreliable source of information for her in the immediate aftermath of D-Day.

The only fix for that which I found was accuracy, consistency and completeness of information. The more I repeated the same information without variations, the more likely it was to be accepted as accurate. The more the details I provided made sense, the more they could be accepted. The more I answered questions directly and completely, the more they could be accepted as "the whole truth".

If you are seeing complete, consistent and accurate information, then it will be easier to believe. But if details don't make sense, then unfortunately "trust, but verify" mode still makes the most sense.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
LookingforLove
♀ Member
Member # 12002
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

listeningclosely---

Thanks. I am not trying to use the 180 as punishment but as a tool to detach from the situation since he is still in contact...I do however want him to eventually see what he is losing--a strong and confident person who is standing her ground...

I am also not trying to punish him by with holding sex although He will probably look at it that way--I just can't see continuing to go to bed with him when he is still seeing her..what does he need to go to bed with me for? He has her...the sex is great but I always feel horrible afterward because I gave in and know that he is having his cake and eating it to.

I still love him and do want to R however I realize he has to want to as well...adn I can't make him...

How can I explain this to him without making it seem like I am trying to get back at him, manipulate him or punish him for what he has done?

Is their any hope after 3 years of this crap?? I'm just lost--damned if I do, damned if I don't...

Thanks


Me: BS
Him: WS LTA 6+ yrs
OW: Skank Company HO
Status:
Divorce filed 4-5-11
WH served on 4-6-11 with D papers and NC order.
Divorced: 4/20/12

Posts: 1114 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Washington State
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 11:27 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I apologize if this has been answered, there are a LOT of pages here.

Anyway, I don't know if anyone S from their BS...but mine did. Now that he's free to be open about relationship with OW, why isn't he?

We are S, but not D - but his family doesn't know the whole deal, neither do friends or co-workers (I understand the want to hide it from work, but friends and family?).

I have warmed up to the fact that he's not coming home, but now that he's got what he wants, I don't understand the need to still lie about things to his inner circle.

Is it b/c we're not D and he wants to 'save face' by pretending he's not dating someone until our D is final?

I guess I feel maybe a little angry that he isn't being honest with people and when his family talks to me,I have to 'cover'. For example, I talked to FIL the other day. He asked if we were going to work things out. I'm thinking, how can we when your son is DATING someone else? That's why we're not working things out! But instead I just said, "Things will happen the way they're meant to". FIL told me he talked to Mr. WBN too, but didn't say anything and I didn't ask (though I'm dying to know what story Mr. WBN is telling).

I guess I'm a little annoyed that I'm the one who got replaced, but have to remain 'cool' while he's still running around but hiding it. Grow up!


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lookingforlove -

How can I explain this to him without making it seem like I am trying to get back at him, manipulate him or punish him for what he has done?

Lay it all out for him directly. Stay fact based, and clearly state the things you need in order to remain in the M. Then be prepared for either response. If he accepts that and is willing to work at it that's great. But if he isn't, be prepared to detach yourself and focus on making yourself stronger.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Jade1964dream
♀ Member
Member # 21362
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wannabenormal: why are you hiding the A from friends and family? why not tell the truth? Not your problem he doesn't want people to know about AP until D. Out them, people will say things to him, some may not, but they'll be thinking it about him - that really bothers my STBXH.


Jadie

Posts: 588 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Paradise
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 12:00 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wannabenormal: why are you hiding the A from friends and family? why not tell the truth? Not your problem he doesn't want people to know about AP until D. Out them, people will say things to him, some may not, but they'll be thinking it about him - that really bothers my STBXH.

Strangely, I don't feel it's my place. I don't talk to his friends, but as for his family - I don't want to come off as the embittered bitchy spouse.

I feel it's his news to share (or not, apparently). I don't know why I feel this way, but I do. Let him be the one to tell them - why should I have to deal with that too? It's bad enough I have to cover with the kids, let HIM tell his family what he's been up to. Let him own it with them, not me.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
building429
♂ New Member
Member # 21460
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys. I am a BS. My WW had an A with a friend of ours. I'm not quite sure how committed she really is to staying, but, she at least HAS agreed to R the M. For whatever reason, I guess it's a start.

I still feel that she's in the FOG BIG TIME. She's still very selfish in her actions. Everything she says is about how she feels, and about what she needs to do, not about "us" and our M.

She tells me that she needs me to "fight for her", and that she needs me to show her that she really is number 1 in my life. I'm good with that, because I will agree that I was NOT putting her first in our M. I'm not blaming myself for her A, that is 100% hers. But, I am willing to say that yes, I was not loving her the way she needed to be loved.

I need to know from some WW here. How in the world can I show my wife that I truly do love her, and that I truly do want to put her first? It's so frustrating, because I feel like whatever I try, she just gets pissed off at, or she pushes me away. I realize that she's in the fog, so, how can I show her that I love her? I'm so confused...thanks


Posts: 4 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: GA
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

building429 -

How in the world can I show my wife that I truly do love her, and that I truly do want to put her first?

There's no doubt in my mind that this is foggy behavior. I'm ashamed of my own actions after D-Day, but my first reaction was similar to your WW. I would comment about the things that I was missing in the M and the things I felt I needed my BW to do for me.

While there were things that she changed that have made me happier, it took my fog lifting for me to see that in reality I needed to be looking at what I was not contributing to the M in order to truly be happy. That didn't happen in full until after the fog cleared, some 5 months later.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

building429,

I am 2 year out of FWW. Mine was long term PA/EA. I see that your d-day was 10/21, so not too long ago. Do you know if she is completely NC?

I would like to add something to what LC responded. Mine was open to H and I didn't feel guilt or shame and was not remorseful for awhile.
With complete NC, it took me 3 months to come out of withdrawl period I then felt indifferent about xOM. I did avoid all triggers or reminders at all cost. I then was able to focus on M and myself. Letting go means also focusing my side of equation.
At the 1 year mark, I consider xOM as non existant in my daily life. My H was very supportive with my grieving process (what I need to get over xOM). H also said point blank that he would be willing to give me D, if I was still think about xOM and that he doesn't need to live that way (me being selfish). But I chose us and I worked so hard to save it. I simplified my life. I kept appreciating what I have and daily appreciation inventory. I appreciate what I have.


Hope this helps.

[This message edited by beach at 2:22 PM, October 31st (Friday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
building429
♂ New Member
Member # 21460
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks guys. beach, i told my wife just a couple of days ago, that if all she REALLY wanted in this was a divorce, just go ahead and give it to me now. i don't want to get three months down the road and then have her tell me that it's over. if it's over, then it's over, just tell me. she still said she would stay, even after i said this. i have told her every day since d-day that I am willing to do whatever it takes to make this marriage work.

here's another problem I need some advice on. Her family. Her family blames me for EVERYTHING that's wrong in her life. This makes it really difficult on me. They have "shunned" me for over a year now. They won't allow me in their homes, and they won't even talk to me. They say that it's the way I was treating my wife that led them to do this. My personal opinion is that I shouldn't HAVE to prove ANYTHING to them. I'm not married to them, I'm married to my wife. But, they don't see it that way. It's like I have to "earn" my way back in with them, and I don't think that's right at all. My feeling is, if they had a problem with me, then they should have sat me down and talked with me about it, instead of "shunning" me for all this time. So, now I have her family telling her that it's all my fault. How in the world can I deal with her AND them??


Posts: 4 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: GA
newday2day
♀ Member
Member # 21318
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok WS's... how do you know if your WS is actually remorseful and sorry?

My WH just wants me to reassure him everything will be ok and to "drop it". He's tried of "jumping through hoops". He got very angry when I asked him to get an STD test and demanded that be the end of the questions and we can move forward. He's very angry about the STD test and honestly I'm not sure he will go through with it.

I just don't think he's out of the "fog" yet. He thinks I should be trusting and ok with him. He doesn't even act like he's sorry.

What did you do to prove you were sorry and remorseful? How did you begin proving it was over and would not happen again?

Thank you!


BS 31
WS 36
Married 9/1/07
D Day #1 1/21/08 - personals ad response
D Day #2 5/15/08 - created 2 personals ads
D Day #3, 4, & 5 10/08 - personals ad response, phone sex, calling escort services
Newest D-Day 1/1/2010 - Will it ever end? This tim

Posts: 95 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Michigan
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, October 31st (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

building429 -

How in the world can I deal with her AND them??

You don't. Remember that there is only one person you need to ultimately be accountable to and that is yourself. Neither your WW nor her family define who you are. Only you define who you are and what standards you are capable of living up to.

So stop absorbing what they think of you. Be confident on who you are and what you offer.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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