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User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
stateofshock
♀ Member
Member # 21287
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS's...my DDay was 9/8/08, and at the very beginning he showed some remorse and seemed like he wanted to work on things. But things exploded around 9/25 when I went crazy with my knowledge (from cell phone bills) that he was still talking to her and texting her numerous times a day) and he has been out of the house since 9/27 (not living with OW but has seen her several times--she lives in another State). At this point he doesn't seem to intent on stopping me from filing for D, and goes back and forth from being mean and angry to trying to be nice and seeming to want to talk, but then doesn't say anything much.

Should I give up? At this point shouldn't he have felt enough pain and come back if he was going to? Also, why does he continue to tell me that it is over with her, when I know it is not? If he wants a D anyway, why should he care what I know? I'm in a no-fault divorce State, so that is not the issue. I'm so confused!!!


Married 17 years.
Me-41
Him-45
D-Day 9/9/08
1 Daughter, 15 yrs old
OW is ex-wife from 22 yrs ago
He's been out of the house since 9/20.
R seems to be impossible now...

Posts: 277 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Southwest
JW123
♀ Member
Member # 21265
Default  Posted: 2:03 AM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you Findingcomfort and Beach. It is so interesting how, through our bad/negative life experiences, that one can reach out to the other and help shed some light and goodness - therefore helping another understand and heal. AMAZING.

Sadly, H cooked a special dinner for me last night, got a bit drunk (and he normally does not drink) and then wanted to have sex with me. This is so confusing. Did he need the drink to have sex with me? Can he not reach out to me sober? I HATE THIS SITUATION - I love him, but hate the situation.

Thanks again for sheding some light into this and for being prepared to help!


Him (WS)41
Me (BS) 41
3 beautiful children
D -Day 13 October 2008
He moved out - 1st June 2009.
Divorced - 29/11/2011
He lives with OP now
Married 15 years. Known him 21 years
(Although I suspected, denial is quite a thing)

Posts: 483 | Registered: Oct 2008
findingcomfort
♀ New Member
Member # 21364
Default  Posted: 6:10 AM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Ticked Off,

When I say I still had feelings for OP, I guess it was more in the sense of the fix that I would get from contact with him. I never loved him. I loved the idea of him possibly loving me, which was never the case. We were good friends before the A and when it ended it was hard to just let go of that. It is impossible to just hate someone instantly because a relationship should end.

Of course I realize I was being used. That is one of the hugest issues I am dealing with right now. How could I damage my wonderful marriage by being with someone who was just using me? I used to be very confident with myself. Now I have no self esteem. Partly because of me letting myself be used by someone else that I thought was a friend, and partly because I am such a terrible person for hurting my H in such a cruel way. I know it doesn't make sense, I'm still trying to figure it all out myself.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Oct 2008
lumpy
♂ Member
Member # 20121
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess my question for WW's is this: Did you go thru a period of ambivalence? What did you BS do that helped you get past your guilt to give him/her what they needed?

Quick background, we R'd after 11 month separation during which she was seeing the OM on and off and had a passionate relationship. I'm confident that it is over after it ran it's course.

The 1st month of R was great, the 2nd okay, the 3rd and beyond miserable. She is resisting transparency on the advice of friends because she want to maintain her privacy. We haven't had sex in 7 weeks and she told me she feel "dead" that way. She told me last night she feels terribly guilty, like she wrecked something perfect, and doesn't know if it can be fixed. She's read some of"not just friends" and read the 5 love languages yesterday, I don't believe the affair is still going on, and I don't think there is any other man.

I've asked repeatedly for affection and love, she tells me she is trying the best she can, but I feel very lonely, unloved, I'm just so sad and I don't feel like she's giving me anything that I need.

We start with a new counselor next week, and she's willing to go along with whatever he says we need to do, including passwords, transparency, etc.


delete me

Posts: 206 | Registered: Jul 2008
Jade1964dream
♀ Member
Member # 21362
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Beach or other WS's - last time I talked to H, when he was acting jealous or controlling about having my new bf at the house, he said during a conversation that he just doesn't want to be married, thus his filing for divorce; yet I know he and OW have future plans. According to H, he will never marry OW (never say never). Is it possible then that he really just doesn't want to be married? Or because of the 'fog' he really just thinks that but the truth is he's so into OW? Him simply not wanting to be married would be easier to accept than plans with other OW.

Prior to dday, we were having communications issues, but I thought happily married.

[This message edited by Jade1964dream at 11:41 AM, October 28th (Tuesday)]


Jadie

Posts: 588 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Paradise
FierceSelfLove
♀ Member
Member # 19276
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Beautiful Wayward Folks.
Firstly, thank you for being willing to talk to BS folks. I know you work as hard, if not harder than we do.

I love my H. I am beginning to see him as very sad and in a lot of pain over our S and his A.

I saw a lot of that when we were S. He was so nice to me, so thoughtful. I thought for the longest time it was just because he was so happy with OW ( I kicked him out upon discovery and we were S for 6 months)

After I filed, he cried and said he couldn't be D from me. That he had abandoned his family and wanted to be with me.

Our M was HORRIBLE before his A. Just awful. We both wanted out. We coulnd't connect. I suffer from PTSD and wasn't able to connect or be loving.

I own my part in our failed M and worked hard to change the things that drove him away. That's what brought him back.

That, and the realization (so he says) that he wasn't in love with OW after all, just in love with the idea of being in love because he was so desperate for romance and attention.

So, after I filed and he came to me and said he couldn't be D from me on sept 6. It's taken him a good while to disentangle from OW.

She brought stuff to his apartment (he said he didn't want her to and in fact that was one of the reasons he wanted to end his A with her, she didn't respect his space or requests for time away from her) and it took two sessions of meeting her there and giving her explanations about why their relationship is over.

I was tortured each time he did this, but he assured me that he needed to meet with her, answer her questions about why it was over and finish it off. He had been staying back here at home the whole time. He never stayed at his apr. since then and is still moving his stuff out.

She texted him for a month straight, asking him to meet her, fishing. He never answered. The last night they met to get her stuff, I had two SIers spy on them and they verified what he told me.

Of course, she left her vacuum and some other things there.

Here's why i'm writing:

I have checked his phone without his knowledge since we started this R because he says it's humiliating to show it to me and wants to build integrity with me (I know) but I was stealthily checking his phone anyway and it has always verified what he's told me.

She texted him so many times and he never responded, then she became enraged.

The last time they met was Oct 7 and she was supposed to have gotten everything out of his apartment. He was exhausted and relieved, told me now it's really over FSL. This is really over with her.

She treated him badly, and I think that's why he wanted to do it this way, because he's told me he left her not because he wanted to be with me, but because he doesn't want to be with her--she's bratty, demanding, selfish and he didn't want her around our kids. So he allowed her to bitch him out and demand explanations until he'd had enough nad then said, "thats' it. I"m going home, I've told you why we're not together. It's over."

Well, on Friday she texted him about her vacuum. We had a terrible fight because I wanted him to text her to stop contacting him. He' sick of talking about her (just wait until we get further into R I wonder what he'll do then) and says he never thinks about her until I bring her up. Says he feels blindsided because we're having a great time and I bring this up.

He was furious because he says I want him to behave in a way he never would--which is true. He says he will not engage in conversation with her but will text her when his stuff is out to get her things and leave the key.

I checked his phone. He texted her back that he was moving out and would tell her a good time to get her stuff, but when I asked him if he had responded he said no. He lied to me for the first time.

I sat wtih it a few days, then today we talked and I told him I knew he was not being honest with me (I said cause I know when he is being honest and that I could tell he wasn't. I didn't tell him I"m checking his phone, sorry) and that my main concern was him not trusting me enough to tell me what's going on, that he has contact with her.

Let me say right now that
A) I'm not stupid I know he's not stringing her along, or cake eating. He's being childish and wanting to do things without having to report to me or have these conversations. He's moving back in, working hard on our our R. I would know if he were talking with her or seeing her. He wouldn't be moving back in for one thing, I know my H.

But something else is going on. Not cake eating, not fence sitting but he's working out, I think, the last bit of fogginess.

During our fight over the weekend, he said he might have to be "available" for her to talk to him if she needed it. I freaked out, I mean freaked. Then he retracted it and said, don't ever bring that up again.

Well today of course I did and he told me that he sometimes still feels responsible for her feelings, but that he knows there will be no contact, not reason to meet with or talk to her.

I was very calm, told him we need to talk without him raging or me crying, Just honest talking.

And we did. I feel closer to him, he agreed it was unhealthy and would seperate us if he isn't honest.

Then he said he feels like a bad person, that's why he gets mad at me when we talk abvout this. Cause I said, in every other aspect of our M, you are considerate, wonderful, Except for this.

I dont' know if this makes any sense, I'm just wondering if any of you can relate to this. Any WH's especially who left the M in search of romance? not sex? Cause we have great sex, but had no romance

But now we're building both

But I mostly listen and think it's good that he can tell me how he feels

Thanks for reading. Things really are going well, but I'm wondering how to help him be closer to me. I know it helps to compliment him, be grateful and appreciate of him, that goes far.

He's so sweet. Such a loving man. I"m very lucky..


Me: BW,
"Take back your lives, heal yourselves. Get revenge by being happy with yourself. Stand proud and say-You have not broke me. I will survive and I will come out of this better than I went in"

Posts: 1861 | Registered: Apr 2008
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 8:44 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

stateofshock,

WS's...my DDay was 9/8/08, and at the very beginning he showed some remorse and seemed like he wanted to work on things. But things exploded around 9/25 when I went crazy with my knowledge (from cell phone bills) that he was still talking to her and texting her numerous times a day) and he has been out of the house since 9/27 (not living with OW but has seen her several times--she lives in another State). At this point he doesn't seem to intent on stopping me from filing for D, and goes back and forth from being mean and angry to trying to be nice and seeming to want to talk, but then doesn't say anything much.
Should I give up? At this point shouldn't he have felt enough pain and come back if he was going to? Also, why does he continue to tell me that it is over with her, when I know it is not? If he wants a D anyway, why should he care what I know? I'm in a no-fault divorce State, so that is not the issue. I'm so confused!!!

I can see why you are confused. He is still carrying his EA if not PA, therefore he is in fog and cannot even think clearly. Foggy WSs have unhealthy mindset. Don't let him define your M. You need to decide enough is enough.

[This message edited by beach at 9:15 PM, October 28th (Tuesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSL,

I have never moved out to be with OP, and I know not many FWSs members who actually moved out and then back to R and still actively post here, so you may not get any answer from someone in your FWH's shoes.... but I just wanted to say I read your story in R, too.

, he said he might have to be "available" for her to talk to him if she needed it. I freaked out, I mean freaked. Then he retracted it and said, don't ever bring that up again.

Well today of course I did and he told me that he sometimes still feels responsible for her feelings, but that he knows there will be no contact, not reason to meet with or talk to her. I was very calm, told him we need to talk without him raging or me crying, Just honest talking.

And we did. I feel closer to him, he agreed it was unhealthy and would seperate us if he isn't honest.


I am glad you got to talk about this.

Then he said he feels like a bad person, that's why he gets mad at me when we talk abvout this.

He may feel bad maybe because he still feel responsible for xOW. He may feel that way until he completely grieve the loss of xOW. It took me 3 months to get out of withdrawal stage and at the 6 month mark, I feel indifferent about xOM.

I hope she picked up the rest of her stuffs, otherwise, someone can pick them up for her or deliver them to her place.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:06 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JW123,

H cooked a special dinner for me last night, got a bit drunk (and he normally does not drink) and then wanted to have sex with me. This is so confusing. Did he need the drink to have sex with me? Can he not reach out to me sober? I HATE THIS SITUATION - I love him, but hate the situation.
I can understand why you got confused and then you feel like you have been used afterward.

Stay off the alhocol. Don't let your H take an advantage of you.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lumpy,

I guess my question for WW's is this: Did you go thru a period of ambivalence? What did you BS do that helped you get past your guilt to give him/her what they needed?
Quick background, we R'd after 11 month separation during which she was seeing the OM on and off and had a passionate relationship. I'm confident that it is over after it ran it's course.

The 1st month of R was great, the 2nd okay, the 3rd and beyond miserable. She is resisting transparency on the advice of friends because she want to maintain her privacy. We haven't had sex in 7 weeks and she told me she feel "dead" that way. She told me last night she feels terribly guilty, like she wrecked something perfect, and doesn't know if it can be fixed. She's read some of"not just friends" and read the 5 love languages yesterday, I don't believe the affair is still going on, and I don't think there is any other man.

I've asked repeatedly for affection and love, she tells me she is trying the best she can, but I feel very lonely, unloved, I'm just so sad and I don't feel like she's giving me anything that I need.


I am 2 year out FWW. I went through SWIRL grieving process. It took me 3 months to get out from withdrawal, and then at the 6 months mark, I felt indifferent about xOM. At the 1 year mark, I consider him as non existant. In the mean time, I became asexual. My H felt the same way that you described and I felt bad about that, but that I appreciate his patience. We never had hysterical bonding.

We are better now. My story is in my SI journal in my profile.

Has your W tried hugging, cuddling though? Even though I was asexual, I still enjoyed holding hands, cuddling, hugging and playful. Emotional connection also helped me connect with my H physically.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, October 28th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jade,

Is it possible then that he really just doesn't want to be married? Or because of the 'fog' he really just thinks that but the truth is he's so into OW? Him simply not wanting to be married would be easier to accept than plans with other OW.
It could be either or both. Your WH can only answer that.

In the mean time, keep focusing on your side of equation.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
JW123
♀ Member
Member # 21265
Default  Posted: 6:28 AM, October 29th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A quick question. What is up with drive bys and going to places in the vacinity of the OP?


Him (WS)41
Me (BS) 41
3 beautiful children
D -Day 13 October 2008
He moved out - 1st June 2009.
Divorced - 29/11/2011
He lives with OP now
Married 15 years. Known him 21 years
(Although I suspected, denial is quite a thing)

Posts: 483 | Registered: Oct 2008
InfinitePain
♀ Member
Member # 20819
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, October 29th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What do you mean? Are you wanting to do drive-bys or is somebody doing this to you! I as a BW,I have been in conflict about going to where OP works to see what she looks like. This is where WH meet her and was around her for months. It is 2 hours away, quite a drive to get a person in a panic or really pissed off!


ME-(BS)37
H-(WS)38
D-DAY April 24,2008
EA-1/08 through 4/24/08
PA-Beginning the last week of Feb.for 4 weeks
Married 9yrs
Together 10 yrs
Children 20(B),18(G),12(G),11(G), 9(G) We have the yours, mine and ours situation
In R, doing okay

Posts: 149 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: KY
lostcause111
♂ Member
Member # 19109
Default  Posted: 9:57 AM, October 29th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My struggle and my big question for WS. I am at a year and my wife has not returne dto the M. The A and transparency appear OK. But she does not treat me well and nowhere near how she treated OM. I do not know if you can clal it fog a year out. For any WS that were slow in really returning to the M and respecting your BS when what how did you change and what did you tell yourself to move forward in the M?

Posts: 934 | Registered: Apr 2008
Deeply Scared
♀ Administrator
Member # 2
Red  Posted: 10:01 AM, October 29th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BS's...

Please take the time to read this thread...so many of your questions have been answered already...several times.

This thread is a huge resource to you all...the WS's on this thread are very generous to be here for you all, please don't exhaust them by asking the same questions over and over again.

Read the thread


"Don't give up, the beginning is always the hardest." My Mom:)

My tolerance for stupid shit is getting less and less.


Posts: 192042 | Registered: May 2002
after34years
♀ Member
Member # 20520
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, October 29th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello…BS here, something that is really eating at me lately is the WHAT IF...My FWH was pretty brave
during his LTA, took OW into our home, (our bed) knowing that there was always the possibility that someone
( or I )could come home, matter of fact, one time my married son did stop over and the OW had to hide
in my closet for 45 minutes until son left. My FWH also took OW to my H shop and a rental home we have that was empty for awhile that was not far from our home, that I could drove by at any point to just check out. My question is this, did you ever take the OP into your home or any other place that the chances of being caught were considered very risky? And if you did was is all part of the thrill of the A. And did you have a plan for if you ever got caught as to what you were going to do? Also what was going thru your head during these risky sexual encounters?


Me 52 - WS-54 Married - 34 years 2 adult children, 3 grandchildren D-day - 04/14/08 LTA - 11 years.

Posts: 537 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: Michigan
Anachronism
♂ Member
Member # 20111
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, October 29th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for any WWs who are willing to participate.

Is there anything I can do right now to rescue my marriage?

In June, I discovered my wife was having an EA with someone living on another continent.

I confronted her on D-Day, and she said she wanted a divorce. She moved out in July. She has filed divorce papers.

I have made so many mistakes since the day I found out. Telling her I love her, trying to argue her out of her decision, basically everything but stalking.

We arrange visits with our son through my sister. We don't talk at all now.

I've seen absolutely no sign that she questions her decision in any way whatsoever.

I've dated a little since she left, but it's only reminding me that I don't want this. I want my wife and son back.

We will be divorced in January unless she somehow changes her mind. I'm fairly sure she has yet to meet the OM.

So, is there anything a BH can say other than waiting through this 180 process and hoping? Is there anything your BH said or did that made you question your decision?


"If I could fall into the sky, do you think time would pass me by?" - Vanessa Carlton

Posts: 837 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Michigan
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, October 29th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK folks. After a long "discussion" last night which started when I told my H I felt like I was going to need his emotional support at a wedding this weekend.... after being told that I was "planning all this in order to make his life miserable". After accusing me of manufacturing my discomfort, suggested I skip the wedding (it's my NIECE, can't). AFter listening to his defensiveness about "so, you're saying I'm not especially supportive or loving?" He told me I told him this to upset him to dig up the past all over again, that he'd "put it away, dealt with it, he made a mistake and that I think he intentionally stuck it to me." After that, he finally dropped his anger and said

"Look, you think I'm a sleazeball, that I'll never be anything but a sleazeball in your eyes." The only time he choked up. The rest of the "discussion" was him telling me what I was thinking, feeling, my motivations, etc.

So my question finally.

That was the only important part of the whole discussion right? That no matter how "forgiven" he says he is in his eyes, he isn't really, he just boxed it up to forget about, right? He's not fixed his underlying feeling of being a POS in general, right? HE feels like a sleazeball, I'm not saying that right?

I have not brought up his affairs in almost a year. I thought maybe we had reached a place where he was comfortable enough with our life to hear one of my trigger issues. My IC URGED me to discuss it with him, to allow him to help me, rather than deal with it alone. And it blows up in my face.

What's causing this?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
TNT1970
♂ Member
Member # 21351
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, October 29th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For any of you WS's-when any of you were in the A & still very much in the fog, and thought you never wanted to go back to your BS, and you ended up D-ing. Have any of you realized somewhat shortly after D that you had a revalation, and that you had just made the biggest mistake of your life & wanted to R with you former BS that you still had that opportunity, and were able to make it work? (i.e.-get married again, or just together again?)_

Posts: 151 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Toledo, Ohio
TellingLiesSucks
♂ Member
Member # 20868
Default  Posted: 1:00 AM, October 30th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

weepy -- I am thinking more and more that healthy human brains only react in ways that make sense. The trick is, knowing all of the stuff that is going on in there to cause the reaction.

IMO, there is some thinking going on in your WS mind that you don't have access to. Ask him. Did you do MC? Did you learn any techniques for having difficult conversations?

I know I had a totally dysfunctional cycle of resentment and silence that allowed me to justify horrible behavior. I don't know if his behavior is a red flag, but it is a sign that you are not connected.


For every lie I told her, I told two to myself.

"I'm sorry" is about the lamest thing I have ever said, and yet I whisper it in my heart all day. Until I see her eyes, then I shout it.


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