Also, do you think of "everything" you did as a separate event, or do you bundle all the events of the affair as a whole?
It has been a long drawn out process for me which I'm sure it has been for everyone here.
Early May - admits to haveing friendship with AP but no PA.
2 weeks later - find evidence it was a real PA. He admits to it - says it was 3 weeks long and over before I found out. We start MC and he starts IC.
2 weeks later - find out it was 3 months long - he admits to it. Give him dealbreakers - he changes job, cell phone number - admits to sleeping with her one more time in may for closure. And seeing her before he went camping to end things. Still going to MC (where he lied) and going to IC
1 week later - I ask him to leave because he is clearly morning her - blameshifting, gaslighting - etc. Told him he could come back if I thought he was a person I wanted to be with. Says all the right things. He house sits for a friend, but comes by every night to put the kids to bed. I put a tracker on his cell phone - he catches it - gets mad - I stupidly take it off. We are both still in MC and he in IC. Find out just recently (last week) that he slept with her twice (for all I know could be longer) while gone for two weeks near the end of the two weeks. As he put it "there wasn't a natural arc to our relationship and we were caught - so we spent a whole evening together to end it"
He comes home Mid June. One week goes by and he goes to the RUSH concert with his brother (find out later AP bought him tickets) He gets so drunk - she texts him "call me" He does. The day after when I found out he called her - he admitted it but denied meeting her. (last week he says he was set to meet her but freaked out because his brother was there and bolted after waiting ten minutes). This same night - he gets so drunk he shits himself.
The next day after getting caught - I told him - I am not doing this anymore - he apparently tells me he has a revelation and I am the best wife one could ask for - yada yada yada - romantic...
Next week, AP calls (find one call out last week) but the other - I catch because he is at home. She texts him "Call me - its important" He replys "I can't" He showed me this. (we are now in early July.
Mid July (19th or so) He calls me and tells me he got a text from her saying "I want to let you know what your wife is up to. If you don't want to - your not gonna like how I handle it" He tells me this after he talked to her for almost an hour on the phone. I tell him (yes - mistake) to talk to her to find out what the hell she is talking about not knowing he had already talked to her for an hour. He calls her again - she's says I'm stalkingn her - I was not.
End of August now. I get the phone bill and realize that AP has continued to call H. Call him on it...he admits to it. Tells me she called in early August to say her daughter was out of town and she would like to see him. He tells me he said no - and was only a little tempted. He takes Monday off - she attempts to call while I am by the phone - I answer - she hangs up. Sends two texts - "I need an explanation" and " Seriously, I am feeling amputated. Your fueling my spite and I don't want to go there" I ask him if there have been more texts and he admits to picture texts of tits and vagina sent to him. I asked why he didn't tell me - he said things were going so well he didn't want to upset me. He changes his cell phone number again. Rights another NC letter sent registered mail, but a day later admits to remembering that on the receipt part of the register letter - he wrote her address instead of ours so we will never know if she gets it. In it it threatens a restraining order and to inform her work if it continues. His boss - who is somewhat friends with her calls the main office to get his new number. The office manager refuses knowing that he wants it to give to AP. His boss just says she needs closure. The number isn't given.
Five weeks later and I'm feeling good - he treats me to a romantic night etc.
Sept. 19th - my gut tells me something is wrong. I confront him. It takes 15 minutes of asking him to please tell me the truth for him to tell me that she had left notes in his car and a request to meet him at a park the previous Wednesday. In one of the notes apparently - it states that she did not accept the registered letter because it would just say things that would hurt her.
I asked him what he is going to do and that I refuse to live like this and why does he continue to hide contact. He said it is what he is working on (conflict avoidance) and just doesn't want it to erupt again. Monday he files a restraining order against her (with some information that I felt was inaccurate and wondered why he included it)
Tuesday, he picks up the restrainging order. I ask him about some additional contact he had included in it. And he goes ballistic, packs his bags and leaves saying he wants peace.
Wednesday, he comes home and sits down with me apologizing for the prolonging of this whole thing. Takes full responsibilty. Says that he realizes that he thought he was protecting me, but in the end it was lack of taking responsibilty. He admits to sleeping with her in Mid June when we were separated (at that point I didn't know that) seems extremely remorseful, but then proceeds to tell me that he spoke with his boss (the one that is friends with her) while in the main office and told him his plans for a restraining order - he said his boss said it was "over the top" response and that he would be willing to talk to her for my H and was sure he could get her to stop contact. My H told his boss that he had to check with me - Husband says he would like to stop the restraining order and have his boss talk to her. The restraining order could hurt her career as she wanted to apply to PA school. I said that I felt uncomfortable that the RO was a legal document and contained inaccuracies. But I would have to think about it.
He had to pick up my son - so he left.
I called the office and asked if he had talked to his boss. The answer was no. He lied about the conversation with his boss. I called him - told him I knew he had lied and why. He said he was afraid I would think he was protecting her if it was his idea.
I said, in the end you have to do what you think is right.
He agreed to give the letter to his boss (the original NC letter with threat of RO) and his boss would give it to her.
She refused to accept it - again - so his boss read it to her. All of this was confirmed to me by the office manager.
Since then he has been sweet and loving - although I still feel like I do not have the whole truth. I ask him - he says I have the truth. My gut tells me somewhere in the middle of all the contacts that he didn't tell me - he met with her.
Please help me.
Are you disgusted with you actions at all or do you not even give it a second thought and chalk it up to "just" something that happened. It is what it is type thing.
I am certainly disgusted by my actions. At times it feels like an out of body experience, trying to figure out how who I became was so far off from who I am.
Everything associated with that phase of my life - accessing the site I was on, interactions with xMOW, withdrawal from my family - I package together as my season of darkness. I've described it before like Narnia. Always Winter and never Christmas. Cold, bleak, and blinding. The xMOW being the Turkish Delight that fooled and deceived so much. And all of it - every moment - was wrong, destructive and painful.
What I don't do now though is to get so low in thoughts of that time in my life that I wallow in it. Wells has mentioned on numerous occasions that she needs me to be strong for her. I can't do that if I am having a pity party for how low I sank during that time of my life. I need to focus on who I am now, not who I was then. I have learned from my past, but refuse to let it define who I am for all of my life.
She "refuses to accept" the NC letter? You need to get the RO (it is NOT over the top), and have it served. Let the legal process do what the "nice way" did not handle.
They spent a whole evening to end it? Bull. There is no end to an addiction when access is allowed to continue. The only cure is quitting cold turkey. All the cover ups about contact are a way to sneak off and get his fix. At this point, full honesty and transparency (which should have been in place long ago) are a requirement - not an option.
I have a conflict avoidance issue, but that doesn't mean that my BW hasn't pushed my on the dealbreakers to suck it up and deal with it. The crap of using the boss as a go between has to stop. The OW doesn't belong in the middle of your relationship, and the boss doesn't belong in the middle of slamming the door between your WH and the OW.
He doesn't want it to erupt again, yet it keeps blowing up over and over again. He needs to see that one big meltdown is going to be a whole lot better than little ones that will eventually destroy the M.
Could he have met with her? Sure. But that doesn't fix the future in any way. The best thing my BW ever did for me was hold the line on things. Fencesitting was not allowed. You need to determine your dealbreakers, put them on the table and then hold to them.
I agree I have core issues. There is a huge part of me that is tremendously compassionate for what he is going through. In large part, It doesn't have anything to do with me. And the work he has to do in IC is a slow process. I am trying to understand that.
I do see myself constantly believing what he's telling me until it blows up. At this point - I am so shaken that I don't believe anything (finally - I know - dumbshit).
I am afraid of this ending (our marriage). Part of it is because we had a deal that I would be able to work on my stuff (artist) once I put him through school and the kids entered school. Well, that time has come and I'll be damned if that is going to be taken away by divorcing.
I struggle with a deep connection that we both recognize that we have - and his ability have an A and hide from it.
How do I rectify this.
How do I rectify this.
It still comes down to the same core issue. What is it that you can accept in your WH's efforts to detach from OW, and what represents a dealbreaker. The trickle truth clearly is not an acceptable approach, and he needs to come up with actions which can help restore some level of confidence. These measures will probably feel harsh to him, but they need to be because of the severity of his prior actions.
I know for absolute that this A has ended and there is no contact. But it IS true at this point - I don't believe anything.
I said in MC last week amidst the restraining order business that as far as I'm concerned - the marriage is dead - I remain because I am not strong enough to face divorce right now, to be co parents to our children and for him to support me while I get on my feet. If he had any thoughts of getting back with me - I was tired of doing all the work. I gave him a letter of things that would help although I'm not going to require them. At this point - he has to show he WANTS it.
The problem is - right or wrong - he takes any request as an order (like from his mommy). This is another issue he is working on in IC. No matter how it is presented - he takes it as a demand and rebels (immature - yes & he admits that and asks to have patients since it's been this way for 41 years and he is trying to stop it - AND I do see that)
He has run from the responsibilty of the A. The AP was persistent (I received a text from her admitting this) and he just wanted it all to go away.
I DO agree this is the wrong approach. I guess I've tried to understand this conflict avoidance. If there were degrees a person could have this his would be 11.
Are you basically saying that I am a push over? It's okay - need somebody to tell me.
Are you basically saying that I am a push over?
That may be a little extreme. What it sounds like is that you are accepting less that what you need (and deserve). I can only speak from my own experience. My BW was very firm and very clear about what she would and would not accept in my behavior. I truly believe that was the most significant driver in our R getting off to a strong start. I had a clear road map.
It's natural for a WS to rebel in the early stage. I did my share of complaining about the things my BW didn't do for me, or how she cut me down. But over time, I did see more clearly and started to change how I handled things. Throughout, my BW stood her ground on what she required. For me, that was the right move. Anything less allows a WS to slip back to their addiction.
He denied everything even when staring both of us in the face.
He would say the odd sentence occassionaly - he wouldn't have a conversation.
'Think of me as innocent'
'there was never any emotion, if that means anything'
'You are the best I have'
'You are my number one women'
'Youre the one I want to be with'
What was he thinking?
I don't even know what answers I'm looking for but if any one here can enlighten me on why he went with someone...feel there may of been a few rather than one.
My first suggestion would be that you take some time to read through the questions and answers posted on this thread. I know it's a lot of reading, but I think you will find some general things will start to hit home with you, along with some things that may seem relevant to your situation.
Okay - i agree. I feel that we didn't even have a chance as long as he remained in contact. He does not see that yet - but there are many things he didn't see at the beginning that he now does see.
I am willing to give him time in IC to rectify this. ONe thing I have stood firm in is his constant belief from time to time that he has figured it all out and we can move on. No - I have never accepted this. I have told him that I need to know his understanding of what this A was. How he intends to prevent this in the future. And a whole other list of things including to work on himself - external validation, low self esteem, conflict avoidance.
Very slowly - I have seen some change - efforts for sure.
Are we anywhere close to being reconciled or where I feel safe - NO WAY. And I'm not sure we will get there.
You have a real want to change - Did that exist in you from the beginning?
My H wants to run from everything. Has major FOO issues (as do I - fear of abandonment etc). H family is like stepping into stepford world where no one has any problems - my god - it's considered rude to ask his brother where he works (it's his private matter) Crazy to me - but that is what is. Don't know if it can be overcome.
I asked H last night if he though I was a push-over. He said "your a pain in the ass" about not letting him bury his head in the sand.
I have not dealt with things perfectly. I have made dealbreakers without thinking of what I would do if he broke them. I have let him step over my boundaries. I just have not felt strong and felt shaken. Normally, I am very strong and know what I want, but with this I tend to vasilate everyday. I have developed crippling anxiety for which I am on two medications.
Ideally, I would have been more like Wells. My H would have run for the hills because of his problem with demands - I should have let him. But I am here now.
I am focusing on myself and what I can do for me to feel better.
I am now in IC for the past month and working on my own problems.
You are such a valuable asset to SI - I cannot thank you enough.
Please continue pushing me.
Did that exist in you from the beginning?
The desire to R existed from D-Day forward. I'm not sure I could say that the desire to change myself existed from day one. For a while, I was much like any other foggy WS. I blamed my actions on things I was not getting from Wells, and did not totally accept accountability for my own shortcomings. It took about six months of IC before many of the light bulbs started going off in my head about the changes I needed to make.
He has made statements such as "I realize that I blame you, my job, everything else for my unhappiness"
He has begun to understand that the idea of protecting me when she further contacted him was really him not wanted to take responsibility for what happened - he realizes that the break up was prolonged by him trying to think the relationship was more than it was in order to rationalize the pain he has put everyone in. He didn't want to be the bad guy to anyone - which of course is impossible - he ended up being the bad guy to everyone and rightly so.
It did not help that the AP became a stalker. The realization that he was involved with someone so emotionally unstable freaked him out - but of course she was and of course he was.
He realizes that it was not about her but what he got from her. He realizes that it was an addiction and compulsion.
So - he has realized many things but still has far to go.
He has wanted to run away more than a few times because he could find no peace. He understands that he created the situation - but still...
How does a WS handle the shame.
By learning that the time of our A was one phase of a larger life. One season out of a number of years made up of multiple seasons. And that it does not define who we are, just who we were during that period of our life.
In time, you can grow to have a healthy respect for boundaries and how for some of us they can slip way too easily. But you also learn not to wallow in it, but simply to use it as a warning sign for making the right choices in the future.
Should I tell my WS what I know?
I'm not sure it would be of benefit. A WS who is still foggy, who still puts their OP on a pedestal, cannot see reality even when it is displayed in front of them. Whatever facts you provide, they will alter the storyline to fit their fantasy and keep the OP in high regard.
A WS who has broken out of the fog has already reconciled themselves with who the OP was and what they represented. They have created the skills they need to move past that person and not actively think about them. Bringing up these issues brings that person to the forefront again.
For me, it wouldn't matter. I already know what a narcissistic out of control person xMOW is. My BW pointing it out would only distract my focus from making her happy on a daily basis.
how do I keep him 'in the game' - or should I allow him to go?
First, welcome to SI and I am sorry for your pain. It may not seem like it, but your D-Day was very recent. There is a pretty big roller coaster of emotions ahead for both of you. What you are going through is perfectly normal for you both.
I can only share based on my own experience, but here are my thoughts regarding your question. On D-Day weekend, my BW gave me a choice to make. I was to make a phone call by Monday (she found out on a Saturday morning). The call was to either an attorney or a counselor - my choice. If I chose the attorney, it would hurt her immensely but she would move forward with a divorce. If to the counselor (which I in fact chose), then we were both committed to an R process fully. This full commitment meant we would both leverage IC and MC as much as needed, other resources (like SI) and books to sort through it all.
Is your WH in IC? From his actions, it seems he has not faced his own demons. You cannot repair the relationship between the two of you until he can heal the weaknesses within himself. No matter how he felt about the M, he chose an A based on things within himself that were broken. He needs to figure those out through IC. Once he does, the process of healing your relationship becomes less of an uphill battle.
You are not responsible for his guilt, and more importantly you cannot cure it. The cure has to come from within himself. He needs to develop the skills required for strengthening his own self esteem. Until he does that, he will continue to have these feelings of guilt and being under constant attack.