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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
Frog
♀ Member
Member # 19331
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for WS's. It might be tough to respond to, but I'll put it out there anyway.

Is it easier to R if you've had a ONS vs. an LTA? I know there are few who have had both, but for the ones who have had ONS's or LTA's, what was your R time with your spouse and which A did you have?


Me, BS 33
Him, FWS 35 (MrFrog)
Married 10 years
DDay 12-11-07

Posts: 834 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NW US
capri
♀ Member
Member # 14940
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am looking forward to reading through this thread.

But it's late, and for now, I just have to ask my question and hopefully get some sleep tonight.

Our m was already less than ideal before I found out about ow 1, 2, and 3. To find that he was taking the time at work to send feel-good forwards back to ow3 and on to ow1 and several other female friends, but never to me, was my breaking point. That he insisted on keeping these 'harmless' e-mails in his personal account rather than our joint account and continued with them through 6 months of me making it clear it was unacceptable makes it even harder to swallow that she was 'nothing.'

Even so, I essentially asked for only 4 things from him. One of those was that I wanted to get warm, friendly e-mails from him when he was at work. Could be a forward, could be a clip of something that made him think of me, could be as little as three words: Thinking of you. Anything at all, to let me know he was thinking of me at work.

He has sent me a few nice things now and again, when it's really eaten me up and I've exploded about it. Then it stops. He's given me stories that have turned out to be untrue, as to why he 'can't' send me e-mails from work.

I need to know: why would a man who claims to love his wife and want to save the marriage not do such a very small thing? He's turned around other things. He works much harder around the house now, for instance. Why not such a small and easy thing?


Me: free of the secrets and lies!!!
Divorced 10/2011

Posts: 4483 | Registered: Jun 2007
september rain
♀ Member
Member # 18855
Default  Posted: 11:47 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope y'all don't mind me dropping by here. But it occurs to me that there might be some general questions for OP's as well as WS. I'm willing to try to answer some if I can.

If this is too sensitive or inappropriate, I apologize and will back off.


Remorseful, ashamed and "recovered" FOW and FWSO
Newly married and afraid of the Karma bus

Posts: 489 | Registered: Mar 2008
dayatatime
♀ Member
Member # 17090
Default  Posted: 7:23 AM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK September Rain, thanks for the offer. I really appreciate your openness.

My question: why would a single OW choose an
A when there are plenty of available men out there to date? Why would she continue to pursue WH when WH kept trying to end the A? (This is not to let WH off the hook.) Why waste valuable time in your life for someone unavailable?

BS 47
WH 50
son 7
Dday 9/25/07

[This message edited by dayatatime at 7:25 AM, July 6th (Sunday)]


BS 52
WH 55
son 13
ddays 9/27/07 and 9/1/10

Posts: 763 | Registered: Nov 2007
onemoretry
♀ Member
Member # 19698
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would like to know how long fog lasted compared to duration of A. We are 4 months out from 10month A I see improving signs, but still breaking my heart.

My A was 2 months and I started defogging right before it ended. By the time BH told me he wanted to R I was totally out of the fog.


Me: FWW
BH-
Married: 19 yrs.
D-Day 1: 5/1997
D-Day 2: 5/27/08- same xOM
D-Day 3- 6/10/10- xOM #2

Posts: 195 | Registered: May 2008
september rain
♀ Member
Member # 18855
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, first of all, recognize that the reason most people, especially OP's, engage in an A is because there's something wrong with or broken inside them. An emotionally healthy person generally is not going to put up with the shame of an A, or allow themselves to just settle for the "crumbs" the WS can throw their way. An emotionally healthy person will also recognize the wrongness and indignity of an A, for both parties.

As to why single OW's go for MM? I can't speak for all of them, obviously, I can only speak for myself. It usually has to do with self-esteem and self-image issues. I know, I can hear people groaning over that seemingly cliche. But it really has a lot of truth to it. You don't feel you can get anything better, so you settle for the crumbs thinking it's better than nothing. For such broken people, there's also the ego trip of a MM thinking enough of you to risk his M and future by seeing you. When it's hard to attract the opposite sex and you see all your friends and family with someone, that's often hard to resist.

Childhood issues also have a lot to do with it. My parents both cheated on each other all throughout my childhood and well into adulthood, yet stayed together and seemed to be in love. Talk about screwing up a child's view of marriage and relationships. My father was an abusive alcoholic for much of my childhood and I can't begin to describe how much that screws kids up. I had trouble with "normal" relationships, when I had them at all. Although intelligent and capable, I also have several physical and mental issues that made attracting and dating much more difficult. I was very resentful of that and resentful of other women who had husbands or BF's when I was so lonely and tired of being lonely.

When a family friend came on to me when I was barely twenty, and I'd always liked him, it proved too much to resist. I used the way she treated him as justification, even though I knew better. I believed his claptrap about waiting until the kids were grown and then "anything can happen", even though I should have known better. I also used the fact that she'd confessed her own A's to my mom and I, (before our A) as additional justification, even though it wasn't. And it didn't help that my mother actively encouraged that A, that she acted as if the wife didn't even exist.

The second time I was much older and it was my (now former) boss. I was a never-married single parent still living with my parents and tired of being alone and lonely and never seeming to have any dates, or any second date if I did have dates. I still hadn't recognized that it was my own issues causing that situation.

When I was a WSO, I was still pretty young, and it was basically an exit A from an emotionally abusive, screwed-up man who'd already been married three times. I was too cowardly to end things the right and dignified way, and it took awhile before I recognized and acknowledged just how much I'd hurt him and how wrong it was of me. Yes, the relationship would have ended anyway, no matter what, but I didn't have to do it that way.

There's also the matter of fear of commitment and true intimacy. In other words, wanting to be close but also wanting to be free. In A's, you only see the best of the person most of the time, you don't deal with the daily life stuff spouses see and go through. For many insecure, broken people, there's a lot of fear of real committment and fidelity. If you're insecure, you're going to find it hard to deal with such commitment and intimacy, especially when you know that love and fidelity really are choices and you're terrified that your partner will choose not to be with you anymore. A lot of OP's have that problem.

As for why they keep after the WS when the WS is trying to end things, I can't speak for myself since I didn't have that situation. But I can hazard a couple of guesses, one of them being they can't stand to have the "fantasy" over with and can't stand the idea that they've "lost". They probably think they can wear the WS down or that they can "make" them see their true "lurve."

There's also the matter of some people just being plain selfish and self-absorbed, with a highly-inflated view of themselves. Some people just want what they want and don't care if it's wrong or who they hurt.


Remorseful, ashamed and "recovered" FOW and FWSO
Newly married and afraid of the Karma bus

Posts: 489 | Registered: Mar 2008
NoLongerWantHim
♀ Member
Member # 19934
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

New Question -

I'm trying hard to look at the A and the issues that were there before the A as 2 very different things.

Am I thinking straight on this one?

The A is over, my questions have slowed almost to a stop, and I can't undo the past.

But those issues will remain unless the two of us act to resolve them?


Me & the kids are having the malignancy removed.

If I went to Hogwarts, my Patronus would be my Big Sister - GWADW


Posts: 4120 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Where I want to be, on the road to the future
vanna
♀ Member
Member # 19845
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was wondering how many WS's think that a BS SOULD TELL OP's BS?

Posts: 1623 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: LALA Land
lovegonewrong
♀ Member
Member # 17440
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

first off thanks to all the WS's who have taken time to help ease our minds on this and the other thread in Wayward side.

To ask my question I need to give a little bit of background. My FWH had a 2 yr A with a mutual friend/co worker. We separated after the A was going on for 1 yr (he did not tell me about the A)and then he begged me to R after 3 months which I agreed to.(still not knowing about the A). We went to MC he didn't tell, he says now that the A returned to an EA while we were separated BUT after being home for 3 weeks the EA became more intense and the PA resumes again and became more often.

He asked her to marry him, they spoke about having kids together, talked about how to co parent the step kids etc. He treated me like crap and the week before DDay I asked to separate he said ok.

So my question is ...
what keeps a LTA going?
why would he beg me to come home and then resume the PA and make it more intense?
why go to MC and lie?
He says that he never meant any of the things he said only did it because he needed his 'fix' and he kept upping the anti because the 'buzz' was not the same. Is this the case?
Why could he walk away from me with just an ok but says he was building up to walk away from OP?
He says he was in shock when I asked him to separate but says he knew he didn't want OP. How can I believe him?

thanks in advance

[This message edited by lovegonewrong at 6:20 PM, July 6th (Sunday)]


Monty Python, "It isn't the despair. I can handle the despair. It's the hope that's killing me."


DDay #1: 04 March 07
DDay #2: 10 May 2007 revealed all (I hope)

profile has all the sordid details...


Posts: 124 | Registered: Dec 2007
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NoLonger, you said:
I'm trying hard to look at the A and the issues that were there before the A as 2 very different things.

The A is over, my questions have slowed almost to a stop, and I can't undo the past.

But those issues will remain unless the two of us act to resolve them?

Bless you for being willing to acknowledge that perhaps you had unaddressed problems before the A. As long as you don't blame those problems for the A, or it doesn't give your WH an opening to do that, I think it's essential that you address old issues.

Part of what made it so hard for me to trust that my H wanted R was that I'd tried to talk to him in the past about our problems and he dismissed me. (Of course, I obviously didn't try hard enough)

When I saw that he was willing to look at our entire marriage and work on that, not just focusing on the A, it made me willing to work very hard to R.



You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
hissadwife
♀ Member
Member # 14982
Default  Posted: 8:37 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My questions are for FWW:

If your affair partner had children, did you feel guilty about what the affair stole from them? In our case, we have four very young children who needed their dad and OW knew it.

FWH told OW, in a nutshell, that I was a bad wife and mother. As a mother herself, do you think she would have felt any guilt about leaving our young children in my (horrible incapable) hands rather than in (loving superdad) FWH's care? The lie was so obvious...how could she not see it?

FWH's OW told him she'd happily settle for spending a couple of hours a week with him. Why would she settle for that? She was married, had been separated from her BH for years, though she still kept him around and had sex with him. Why wouldn't she file for divorce and then out the affair to me so that she and FWH could be together full time?

Thank you for any insight you can offer. I'm still struggling to make sense of what I know and fill in the gaps of what I don't know.


Does this wedding ring make my dick look big?

Posts: 4362 | Registered: Jun 2007
NoLongerWantHim
♀ Member
Member # 19934
Default  Posted: 6:31 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fallen,

Thanks!

FWH did try to tell me I "drove him to an A" - And he looked genuinely shocked to hear that if I'd driven I wouldn't have any questions at all, I would have stayed to watch.

For today. I'm focusing on letting him know that he was wrong - beyond belief, and as of today, I feel that most of the work on changing behaviors seems to be mine.

He sees that, and knows that needs to focus on me so he sees the warning signs go up before I blow up.


Me & the kids are having the malignancy removed.

If I went to Hogwarts, my Patronus would be my Big Sister - GWADW


Posts: 4120 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: Where I want to be, on the road to the future
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Frog -

Is it easier to R if you've had a ONS vs. an LTA?

Tough to answer unless the WS has had both. I can tell you from my experience that the withdrawal from my online EA cut pretty deep, and I can't imagine it being "easy" for anyone.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

capri -

why would a man who claims to love his wife and want to save the marriage not do such a very small thing?

There are a couple of things I can think of, having made adjustments to the way Wells and I communicate. First, if you have spent years not communicating this way, it may feel strange at first to change things up. I was flirting with people I barely knew, but I knew that they received that kind of communication well. After I focused on Wells, I wasn't sure if she would enjoy flirting in IM, text, etc. with me. We had never done that before. Over time, sending her texts, IM's and emails has become easier for me.

The other challenge is that when I withdrew from life for my A, it wasn't just from my family. I let my work quality fall apart too. So as I tried to "right the ship", I was more intensely focused while at work and maybe spent too much time with tunnel vision on work. Over time I have found a better balance, but it hasn't been easy.

Not sure if these match what's going on with your WS, but they are my experience anyway.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NoLongerWantHim -

I'm trying hard to look at the A and the issues that were there before the A as 2 very different things.

Am I thinking straight on this one?

Yes, you are. In any M, there will be challenges for the couple to face. None of them cause an A. The A is a choice made exclusively by the WS.

Of course, the correct way to approach the challenges in the M is to work together as a team toward a solution. When my A happened, it was because I let my combination of low self esteem (assuming "why bother to try, I'll never be good enough") and conflict avoidance ("I'll just lose and sacrifice for my BW anyway") prevent me from talking with her and facing the issues as a couple.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

vanna -


how many WS's think that a BS SHOULD TELL OP's BS?

I'm ok with the idea now. For me, even shortly after D-Day I wouldn't have cared either way. xMOW had given up on her M (or at least that's what she told me), so I would have figured it would not have come as any great shock to her BH that his WW was messing around.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lovegonewrong -

what keeps a LTA going?

When it continues to fulfill the addictive need of the WS. As long as xMOW was giving me compliments that offset my own low image of myself, the A still remained a desired option.

why would he beg me to come home and then resume the PA and make it more intense?

When confronted with both worlds (real and fantasy) there is a battle that is waged inside. A part of me knew that the love I had for my BW ran deep and strong and that I wanted her as my life long partner, lover and best friend. But the allure of the fix I got from the A was very powerful as well. the only fix for it was working through IC to find my flaws and fix them.

why go to MC and lie?

For me it would have been a fear of conflict. Telling a truth that would cause pain and probably end up in a 2 on 1 (my BW and the MC ganging up on me for my own bad actions) would have been my worst nightmare. That's part of the reason that IC was so critical first. I was free to work out my fear of conflict, then address the issues with my BW as a couple.

He says that he never meant any of the things he said only did it because he needed his 'fix' and he kept upping the anti because the 'buzz' was not the same. Is this the case?

It could be. Although for me it was more like the addiction caused me to see the world in a distorted way. What I said was a response to that foggy, altered view I had at the time.

Why could he walk away from me with just an ok but says he was building up to walk away from OP?

Because to feed the "justification" of the A, I had built up the problems in our M way higher than they really were. xMOW was always a fantasy, so there were no negatives to lean on.

He says he was in shock when I asked him to separate but says he knew he didn't want OP. How can I believe him

Actions that support the words. Is he taking steps to fix himself for you? Is he in IC? Is he reading infidelity books and discussing with you what he is learning about himself? Is he offering gestures of love that you appreciate? These are signs that he is focused on you and your healing.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Frog
♀ Member
Member # 19331
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listening, you are a very considerate person to be taking so much time and answering so many questions. I hope you and Wells can get past the little speed bump from last night very quickly, with your willingness to be open I can't see how you couldn't.

Anyway, I do have one more question that might be open for a larger audience. FWH has told me a few times that after his ONS's he would still IM or email with these women a few times about nothing really, but he didn't want to have anything more to do with them. He said he was emailing because he didn't want to be rude or mean and just ignore them (and I know he has a people pleasing problem.... this is the guy who went for 2 years without a review or raise at his job when he should have been getting them every 3 months, but he refused to ask for one for fear of annoying his boss). The last person he was with IMed and emailed him for over a year after the A ended, fishing, inviting him over and such. She IMed him (according to him) once or twice a week, and he would only respond (again, according to him) once every other month or so. He said he doesn't know why he didn't just ignore her or block her IM's. We even moved states and he would occassionaly respond to her.

So my question is, is there a portion of a person that could be such a people pleaser that they can ignore the needs and feelings of their spouse to do things to not hurt others feelings instead? I ask him often how come he didn't stop knowing that he would be killing me, and he just doesn't know. He feels terrible, I have no doubt about that, but it doesn't hurt any less that he cared about not hurting someone's feelings that he had nothing more than a ONS with over hurting my feelings by having an A to begin with.


Me, BS 33
Him, FWS 35 (MrFrog)
Married 10 years
DDay 12-11-07

Posts: 834 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NW US
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Frog -

is there a portion of a person that could be such a people pleaser that they can ignore the needs and feelings of their spouse to do things to not hurt others feelings instead?

I know it happens, but I'm not sure I can effectively explain why. Wells often has told me all she wants is for me to give her and the girls what I give to everyone else. At peak times I have done volunteer work for as many as three or four organizations, helped family and friends, etc. Unfortunately, there have been times when that has come at the expense of my family having me do similar things for them.

I know that I have had a "hero complex" in the past - this need to do something to help others to receive the positive validation that came with it. I think that the conflict you mention is less about thinking about the pain your WS might be causing you. To me it feels more like the over the top reaction you get when doing something for non-family members versus either a "gee thanks" from your family, or even worse nothing at all because it's just assumed you should have given to your family in the first place.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
alone_in_georgia
♀ Member
Member # 19428
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to all the WS's who are stepping forward to answer questions; you really are making a difference!

If any of you have time to go back to look at my question near the bottom of page 2, I'd appreciate it. I think it got lost :-)


Me BW 40
Him FWH 45
DS9, DS7, DD4
D-Day: 4-30-08; 2 yr LTA
In R

If you sometimes treat your wife like a mistress, you'll have a happy marriage.
If you sometimes treat your mistress like a wife, soon you won't have a mistress.


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