And if so why?
[This message edited by movingforward31 at 4:20 PM, September 25th (Thursday)]
I especially want to hear from people that ended it before they were discovered, and why they did.
Is this still the fog?
Sure sounds like it to me. Getting defensive, wanting to "just get over the A and move on". These are signs that a WS has not yet taken ownership of their own shit and done the work necessary to heal.
In this instance, MC won't do any good either. Your WS is still looking outward (at you) for reasons instead in inward.
the only way past this is for a WS to do hard work in IC to figure out why they allowed themselves to make bad choices and act on them. To determine what they need to do to shore themselves up, be accountable for what they did and to start acting the way they need to in order to have a healthy M.
Until that work happens on the part of the WS, progress will be halted. You cannot work on the "us" of your M until your WS has done the work on themselves first.
In thinking this through I came to the conclusion that if the chain was never broken and we got a D, she would eventually fell that a debt was owed to me and hence cheat on her future H in order to repay me.
Twisted it is because in a way it makes it out to be that she wasn't cheating on me, she was cheating for the OM.
Anyway, my question is, does that sound like a reasonable "why" to any of you WSs and if so do any of you feel the same?
When the time came that your affair was out in the open with your BS, did you care who else knew?
At first, yeah, I cared a lot. I wanted to keep the number of people who knew down to a minimum. I was ok with my BW telling people she needed to tell for her own healing (though not always happy about it). But I didn't volunteer anything to anyone myself.
Now, a year plus out from D-Day, I'm ok if pretty much anyone who needs to know finds out. There are still a number of people who don't know (or at least don't know specifics) - our kids and my parents among them. At this point, my only question is what benefit will come from someone knowing. If it will result in a positive (my BW's healing, my own healing, someone else's understanding, etc.), then I am all for it. If it will result in only pain, sorrow and angst, or creating an enemy of our M, then I don't feel anything needs to be said.
I won't lie, but I'm not looking to go on 60 Minutes and tell the story either.
I am a BS and have never posted here before, but I am desperate to try and understand WH, and I am getting no discussion from him. We are currently separated, he is living at his parents. If you would like to know our history it is in my profile.
My question is, why is WH so ANGRY and BITTER towards me? I have tried everything I could to keep our M together, we've been going to MC though I don't know if that will continue. I only asked him to leave because I couldn't take him ignoring me constantly, not touching me or saying ILY, he would literally be in the same room but acting like I didn't exist. You could FEEL the anger radiating from him. I just couldn't take the contant tension and it was affecting the kids. We haven't even spoken much over the last couple of weeks, but he is still so angry and bitter. If I even try to talk to him I can feel his anger building. I just don't understand why he's directing all of his anger at me. I have done the best I could to refrain from calling him names, being disrespectful, etc. over the last almost year. His anger has only grown over time.
I am almost 100% sure there is no current OW or A going on. His family says he is always there when not at work, and I have access to his phone bill. There is no evidence, and I don't feel like that an A is what's going on.
Is this a just a stage? Any WS go through anything similiar? Any ideas as to why he cannot see me or talk to me without getting incredibly angry? Thanks you so much for your insight. I am posting here as a last resort, because I have been seriously considering D because nothing I do helps.
She is currently separated, on the D track, and claims, just in it for the sex. She also said that "SHE" is not the one who is married, he is, and so she is not doing anything wrong.
Married Man is, of course, unhappily married, father of two young daughters, about to be contracted overseas for 1 year, and plans on divorcing his wife when he gets back.
They call each other "booty calls". She claims she is just having an "adolescent experience" and her IC is fine with it.
She also claims the relationship is purely physical and she is not emotionally attached. She admits, however, to thinking of him constantly during the day and texts him quite often.
Any advise as to how to cousel my friend? How to warn her about what she is getting herself into? How it affects not only herself, but the man's family as well? And how to be her friend throughout?
Because I am a BS, she doesn't think I can understand her need for "just sex" with this guy, and that I can't relate to her situation.
Thank you for any advice I can pass along to my dear friend, who I very much adore and care deeply about.
does that sound like a reasonable "why" to any of you WSs and if so do any of you feel the same?
This wasn't my experience. I guess I can see the point, but my own guess is the reason your WW allowed herself to cheat multiple times goes deeper than that. The unanswered questions that remain are why, after a formal process of splitting a relationship, wound she still feel that obligation? And more importantly, what made her think that affair activity would resolve that feeling of obligation more effectively than other paths she could have chosen, such as D and then resume the relationship or even a simple letter of apology for any hurt she feels she may have created.
These are the things I think IC would help get to the root of.
why is WH so ANGRY and BITTER towards me?
An A is an addiction for a WS. It is just as powerful as any drink or drug. Whenever I felt low or beaten down by the world, I turned to the xMOW for a shot to my ego. I'd get a temporary boost, then run into reality, get knocked down and the cycle repeated again.
Now consider what you represent in that cycle. You are the person who "took away your WS's high". You are responsible for him not being able to get his fix. An alcoholic will get pissed at the bartender who won't serve them. A drug addict will get pissed at the paramedic who gives them Narcan and takes their high away. And a WS will get pissed at their BS, who takes away their OP and the high they get when they interact with the OP.
Given time with NC and a focus on the issues why the WS needed an A, that anger can be defeated. But it takes time to get there.
Any advise as to how to cousel my friend?
I'm not sure there is any advice that will work here. The xMOW I was involved with, while not yet divorced at the time, had already made the decision she was done with her M. She shamelessly flirted with multiple married men (myself being one of them), and felt no remorse or guilt at all in the process. Ultimately, she expressed that if the BW's weren't doing what they needed to make their WH's happy and she could offer that, in her view she was doing something good.
The bottom line reality - she didn't think enough of herself to believe that she deserved anything better than being a married guy's "booty call". And in order to counter some pretty deep beatings she gave her self image, she needed multiple married guys to boost herself up.
You could explore why your friend feels that she has such little value that she should settle for being OM's "booty call". Why she thinks so little of herself that this it's ok for her to "settle" for this lifestyle. But unless she is willing to get her IC to dig into her low self esteem, I'm not sure she'll come around.
Any focus on the impact to the OM's family will likely be futile. She's totally self absorbed in what her "needs" are, and likely could care less about what might happen with his family.
So sorry you are going through this. I really hope things can turn around.
The unanswered questions that remain are why, after a formal process of splitting a relationship, wound she still feel that obligation?
My WW has a long history of disassociating herself from guilty or dark emotions. She could teach "compartmentalizing 101". In our recent talks she said that she never came to grips with her previous cheat and possibly that was the underlying motive for her current A.
I know this is probably psycho babble and maybe only another attempt to minimize her guilt but I do believe there is a underlying reason she did the unthinkable and it goes way back, to a time before I met her and probably started in her childhood.
Where, and when, did you first kiss? What did you say to each other right after? When did you first say “I love you” and where were you? Is it TRULY possible to NOT remember these things?
Is it possible not to remember to this level of detail? Yes, it is.
Ok, so maybe something as significant as physical contact (first kiss for example) is something memorable. But I honestly could not tell you when and where I first said I love you to xMOW. I can't tell you the subject of our first conversation, what her favorite color is or which restaurant is her favorite.
The reason is that the A was selfishly about me. It was about getting kudos for myself and getting my ego stroked by xMOW. I wasn't focused on what I was offering her. I was selfishly acting in ways that would create the positive feedback from her that I wanted.
It also started slow and built up over time. By the time I realized the depth of the relationship, my guess is I had already uttered the dreaded I love yous to her a couple dozen times. Added to that was the fact that she held back on saying it in return for a while, making it a sort of conquest. She played coy (saying I adore you instead of I love you, and that she wasn't sure she believed in love), furthering the determination of "her men" - yes there were more than one pursuing her (all married) to be the one to convince her to love them.
So now, if asked to go back and tell specifics - I couldn't do it. Some significant events I could - where we met the first time, and the place I said goodbye for example. But every detail to the level you are asking? I honestly don't remember. And at this point in our healing, I am trying to keep myself focused on what I am doing - my current and future actions - that make me the one my BW wants to choose every day for the rest of her life.
I still don't GET it, but I know that is because I'm NOT the one who did it. For ME, and only me, that kind of stuff would be burned in my memory. I guess if he (and you) really DON'T remember, it's kind of a "good" thing, because it means it wasn't all that memorable?
I HAVE been accused of "overthinking" things before, so perhaps the level of detail I've been searching for is something I need to get over.
BUT, there are still things I need to know, not dates or times or details, so I guess I'll concentrate on those and take him at his word that he truly doesn't remember the other stuff.
It has been 1 year out and R is going well. However, recently my FWH is wanting more trust from me. He says he has changed and is not the same person. In most repects, I believe that is true. He says that he feels like he is in prison or waiting for parole. Has anyone else felt this way? And if so how did you deal with it? Thanks in advance.
EA:May 07-PA:July 07 (w/co-worker)
D-day 12/06/07,day b4 b-day admitted 2 wk EA.
Success is failure turned inside out.
"Illusion never changed into something real." Torn - Natalie Imbrulia.
Divored n Feb 09
my FWH is wanting more trust from me.
Trust in what way? I think it all boils down to size and scope.
While my BW doesn't ask to see my cell or email every day, I would gladly let her do so if she needed it - now or well into the future. When there's nothing to hide, there's no fear there.
Close to D-Day I would IM or text my BW when I was running errands or attending events. I don't do that as often, especially if my timing is "normal". But even now if I am delayed - long line at a store, caught up talking to someone after a chorus rehearsal, flight gets delayed, etc. - I still IM or text. It's not just about verification. I actually see it as treating my BW with respect in letting her know when she can expect I'll be back home.
So what lack of trust does your WS feel is too rigid?