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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LookingForLove -

Why can't he stop?

In my case, I had to work on the core things that were broken within me to "affair proof" myself. That meant learning to increase my self image and not to avoid conflict. Basically, I now tell myself I have my own set of expectations for myself and when I meet or exceed them I am happy. I no longer let the expectations of others govern whether or not I think I am doing well. That's what led to my addiction to the positive feedback I got from xMOW.

Has your WH dealt with the weaknesses within himself? If he has, he clearly hasn't done so fully. If he hasn't, I think he will be prone to this behavior until he attacks his demons head on.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
loobyloo
♀ Member
Member # 19611
Default  Posted: 3:14 PM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Listeningclosely,

Sorry to crash in on your reply to someone else, but your remarks about other's expectations struck a chord and your insights have been so spot on...

In a conversation with my H earlier today he said he had horrendous self esteem issues and we both agreed that he relies a lot on external validation- he loves to be mr popularity and hates the fact that someone may have negative feelings about him. He said that we all need other people to give us praise and to know we are doing a good job etc
I agree with this but just wondered at what point this becomes detrimental?
Just wondered about your thoughts on this.....

Loobylooxx


Me BS
H WS
Married 8 years
D day- march 19 2008
6 week EA with coworker who was also a family 'friend.'

Posts: 142 | Registered: May 2008 | From: UK
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, July 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

loobyloo -

Just wondered at what point this becomes detrimental?

At the point when it becomes the primary way you define your own value. You have to know inside that you are a great person, you deserve a good life and that you are achieving to your own standards. If others compliment you that's great. But if you define that sense of worth only by what others tell you, then when someone has less than glowing remarks about what you are delivering (as happens from time to time in an M), it exposes you to turning to the wrong place for positive reinforcement.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
loobyloo
♀ Member
Member # 19611
Default  Posted: 2:28 AM, July 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Listeningclosely

it's definately a topic that h and I need to discuss a lot- the trouble is after the A his self esteem is even lower as he feels so much disgust etc at himself. I suppose it's all about forgiving himself and learning from it.......

Thanks again


Me BS
H WS
Married 8 years
D day- march 19 2008
6 week EA with coworker who was also a family 'friend.'

Posts: 142 | Registered: May 2008 | From: UK
Jekyll
♂ Member
Member # 10886
Default  Posted: 3:06 AM, July 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hollywood -

I saw that your question hadn't been answered yet, so I thought I'd present my own answer to it (though for this one, especially, I suspect answers may vary, even wildly):

In the midst of the first PA contact, did you stop for a second to think about your BS? If so, what "thought" did you have, and what did you say to yourself to continue? For instance, right before you leaned in for the first kiss, did you think "oh, he's so hot" or did you think "what am i doing?"

I honestly didn't stop to think. I think that if I had, I couldn't have gone through with it. Everything I did was just... base, for want of a better word. No rational thought, no consideration for what I was doing or the effect it would have on anyone - in particular, obviously, my BS - nothing but going with the flow and taking the easy path, not resisting temptation, not even taking the time to recognize it... just... going with it. Living the unconsidered life, as it were. Little better than some kind of rutting animal... or perhaps even worse.

Also, as a followup to Ron's question... I think one of the things that continues to hurt my BS is not necessarily that I "got" to have "pleasure" (sorry for all the quotes, but at this point the thought of it just makes me want to ) with someone else (which she, being a very attractive woman, could easily do if she were so inclined), but that she is no longer my last first. She is not the last woman I kissed for the first time, or slept with... and that, I know, hurts her. I don't know that she think about it as much as she used to, but I'm sure it's still a shadow lurking somewhere in her mind.


Me: FWH
My beloved wife: hurtbs
DDay - April 2006
July 2006 onward - R'ing

"Every hill that's worth the climb will always be too steep."
- Wild Colonials


Posts: 1017 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: TX
onemoretry
♀ Member
Member # 19698
Default  Posted: 8:34 AM, July 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hollywood- As foggy as I was during my A, I very vividly remember my first physical contact with the xOM and my thoughts during it. We agreed to meet at a park and I remember pulling in the parking thought thinking I could easily turn around and go home and NOT cross that line. But then I thought that would be be rude. So as he leaned in to kiss me my thoughts were that the line has been crossed and nothing in my life will ever be the same again. So I might as well not stop it. I did think about my BH and how he would die to know where I was and what I was doing. But then I just tried to rationalize everything- he doesn't care about me, there are problems in my marriage anyway. And I was so foggy....I mean, the AP drove an hour to see me...he must REALLY like me.


Me: FWW
BH-
Married: 19 yrs.
D-Day 1: 5/1997
D-Day 2: 5/27/08- same xOM
D-Day 3- 6/10/10- xOM #2

Posts: 195 | Registered: May 2008
auntcis
♀ Member
Member # 15926
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, July 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

First of all thanks in advance for any responses, I think all FWS who are willing to help us BS here are very brave.

That being said, my question is more for those of you who a pretty far out from Dday. My FWH doesn't ever seem to think about the A, but he made a comment to me once about never forgetting what he did. So what I am asking I guess is do you ever forget about it? I know that although I have forgiven my H and consider us R'd I won't ever forget what happened. Do you(generally speaking)forget about your A over time or does it cross your mind and do you feel bad for the pain you have caused, although you may not show it?

Thanks again


Me;36FBS,Him;31FWH,married 14yrs
D14,S12,S8,OC13
OC was adopted 8/13/09
"Lucky I'm in love with my best friend."

Posts: 3519 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: New York
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, July 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

auntcis -

Do you(generally speaking)forget about your A over time or does it cross your mind and do you feel bad for the pain you have caused, although you may not show it?

No, I never forget about it. But I choose not to obsess about it either. Any time I spend actively thinking about my A and the damage it did takes time away from actively thinking about how I can make my BW and our kids happy in the here and now.

I leveraged my knowledge of the destructiveness of the A to find my flaws and learn ways to attack them (improving my self esteem and not avoiding conflict). Those are the legacy of the A that last. And those are the actions that "affair proof" me for the future.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
auntcis
♀ Member
Member # 15926
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, July 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks


Me;36FBS,Him;31FWH,married 14yrs
D14,S12,S8,OC13
OC was adopted 8/13/09
"Lucky I'm in love with my best friend."

Posts: 3519 | Registered: Aug 2007 | From: New York
SoSleepless
♀ Member
Member # 19922
Default  Posted: 3:48 AM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a few questions if i may...

are you sure it is not about/has nothing to do with us? because in my mind i totally love my WS and i would never ever do something like this to him.

how did you ride out that anger and still love your BS? i get quite angry and i can see that it hurts him (he hates conflict) i am actually scared myself at the level of anger i have, i have hit him, broken things and often physically hurt myself to try and get the rage out its like im not even there in my own body. thankfully the anger seems to have simmered down a fair bit

i guesss its just something i dont get, and i dont think he got... how much this can destroy a person.

and lastly

what can i do to help him?


Two half people only make one whole one and it takes two whole people to make a relationship work

going to church doesnt make you a christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car


Posts: 114 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: UK
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:16 AM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoSleepless -

are you sure it is not about/has nothing to do with us?

All M's have issues. Some are big and some are small. Couples who don't face infidelity are made up of two strong individuals who face those issues together. In the case where one or both have an A to "escape the problems with their M", there is a weakness in the person that had the A and let it happen. Saying that marital problems are the reason for the A is blameshifting.

In my case, I enter the A with low self esteem. If my BW criticized me for not remembering to pick up some milk (after she reminded me several times that morning) and I were stronger about myself, I would have accepted the blame for screwing up and moved on. Because I thought little of myself, I allowed that thinking to let me believe she felt I wasn't good enough for her and could never meet her standards, thus letting someone else in who I shouldn't have.

So the A was completely about my own weaknesses - not about us as a couple.

how did you ride out that anger and still love your BS?

My love for my BW has never wavered. It's strength is the reason we are still here together today as a couple (if it was weaker I would not have found the strength to R). IC is what got me through the initial period. I had to learn to respect myself and feel good about who I am as a person. Once I could do that, I could face any anger, disappointment or frustration my BW had toward me without fear of it driving me back into an A.

i guess its just something i don't get, and i dont think he got... how much this can destroy a person.

The pain and destruction the A might cause were the last thing on my mind during it. First, I had the "just friends" mentality so I didn't see it as an A when it clearly was. And second, I was so desperate to make myself feel better about me that I was willing to overlook the signs.

what can i do to help him?

Press for IC, focus on discussions over arguments, find ways to help him see you are facing a common challenge as a team working together. That's the best support anyone can ask for.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
JMD16
♀ Member
Member # 12448
Default  Posted: 7:31 AM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In the midst of the first PA contact, did you stop for a second to think about your BS? If so, what "thought" did you have, and what did you say to yourself to continue? For instance, right before you leaned in for the first kiss, did you think "oh, he's so hot" or did you think "what am i doing?"

hollywood,
I was the one who initiated the PA and when I did lean in for that kiss- my BH came to mind. It was only for a second and all I thought was "what am I doing?".

I remember after that kiss thinking that I needed OM. OM would take me away from all the problems and responsibilities- things my BH couldn't do.

It was all fantasy! I was so overwhelmed with my life that I created one with OM- one that was stress free, children-free (this makes me sad now ), etc.

I should have listened to my instincts that were questioning me..I wish I had!


me- WW 34
him- BH 33
M 11 years
2 DD's, 11 and 3

It's never too late to be what you might have been

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end



Posts: 1333 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: New England
SoDisappointed
♀ Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was there a time during the A that the fantasy started to crumble and real life set in? When/if that happened, did you try to break free or continue on? Was there a time when the guilt got so strong that you had to stop?


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
onemoretry
♀ Member
Member # 19698
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoDisappointed- I remember the EXACT moment when I realize it was all just a sham. Everything he was promising me were lies. I was his secret and meant nothing to him. Dealing with realizing that and the guilt I felt is when I chose to end it. I ended it and then told my Bh everything.

[This message edited by onemoretry at 3:35 PM, July 5th (Saturday)]


Me: FWW
BH-
Married: 19 yrs.
D-Day 1: 5/1997
D-Day 2: 5/27/08- same xOM
D-Day 3- 6/10/10- xOM #2

Posts: 195 | Registered: May 2008
clearlydazed
♀ Member
Member # 19501
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would like to know how long fog lasted compared to duration of A. We are 4 months out from 10month A I see improving signs, but still breaking my heart.

Posts: 245 | Registered: May 2008
Fallen
♀ Member
Member # 4313
Default  Posted: 4:06 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My A started as EA, and four months in, became PA. I was foggy for about 2 months after dday, still confused and unsure of what I wanted.

I wanted R, but was afraid to trust it, so I kept talking to OP as a kind of insurance against being alone. I sent the NC letter about 6 weeks after dday, and 2 weeks after that, I was beginning to see much more clearly.

Remember that it is a process, not usually an instant reaction, though some WSes are much quicker about it than I was. I also think that how quickly a WS defogs has everything to do with how hard they're working on discovering why they cheated in the first place.

Truly, once the OP was out of the picture, my focus was clear, and it became much easier.


You can't heal what you won't feel.

"There would be no grand absolution, only forgiveness meted out in these precious sips. It would well up from his heart in spoonfuls, and he would feed it to me. And it would be enough."


Posts: 23475 | Registered: May 2004
JMD16
♀ Member
Member # 12448
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was there a time during the A that the fantasy started to crumble and real life set in? When/if that happened, did you try to break free or continue on? Was there a time when the guilt got so strong that you had to stop?

SoDisappointed-
I started to "see" reality when OM kept standing me up or I found out he was lying to me...I was so foggy/stupid that I put all my effort into keeping that fantasy alive!!

After many sleepless nights and looks of sadness from my BH (before I confessed) I realized I was throwing my life away. I honestly didn't feel guilty for a long time- I was too foggy!

Hope this helps


[This message edited by JMD16 at 6:18 PM, July 5th (Saturday)]


me- WW 34
him- BH 33
M 11 years
2 DD's, 11 and 3

It's never too late to be what you might have been

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end



Posts: 1333 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: New England
JMD16
♀ Member
Member # 12448
Default  Posted: 6:20 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Would like to know how long fog lasted compared to duration of A. We are 4 months out from 10month A I see improving signs, but still breaking my heart.

Clearlydazed-
My fog lasted almost a year- that makes me sad to admit but I kept taking steps backward instead of forward. If you see signs of improvement- that is a good thing. My BH didn't see anything hopeful from me for a long time


me- WW 34
him- BH 33
M 11 years
2 DD's, 11 and 3

It's never too late to be what you might have been

Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end



Posts: 1333 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: New England
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SoDisappointed -

Was there a time during the A that the fantasy started to crumble and real life set in?

There wasn't for me, but my EA lasted four months. I don't think it had time enough to work through to the "real life" stage.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:09 PM, July 5th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

clearlydazed -

Would like to know how long fog lasted compared to duration of A.

My EA lasted four months. My fog lasted another five months past D-Day.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
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