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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
ManyRegrets
♀ Member
Member # 7840
Default  Posted: 6:47 AM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do understnad that on one leel, but why can't the WS see the emotional damage they are doing to their spouse, and the overall damage they are doing to the relationship?

Why does it take so long in some cases for the penny to drop?

I can't speak for any other FWS...just myself. n my case, it took about 2 months for the entire truth to come out.

During the majority of that time, I was more focused on my pain and hurt than I was my BS's. I thought I was avoiding a D and more hurt on my end.

Still selfish thinking, I'm afraid. I'm assuming your H was worried about similar things.


Posts: 8722 | Registered: Aug 2005
reallylost
♀ Member
Member # 18185
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgive me if this has already been asked. Any WS, were you ever so desperate to move on to something else, someone else unknown, just the idea of a new life that you had lost all thought as to what it meant to everyone in your life. My wh has had serial ea's for about 2 years always searching for another one to chat with or email or call. Our life at home seemed good and after dday 1 I thought it was great! I found that he had never stopped had even gotten secret emails and cells to keep it up...no sex involved not one woman but 3 that I know of. He seemed more desperate to get their attention and got to where his common sense was a memory. I want him back is it possible and if you went through this what made you see the light..I think he is addicted to this behavior, everyone else be damned.


Me: 47
WS: 38
D-Day:12-26-07
Married: 11 years
divorce final: 11/19/08
3 children: d25, d21(autistic),d8(ours together)
divorce final: 11/19/08

Posts: 166 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: KY
brokendreamz
♀ Member
Member # 18436
Default  Posted: 11:16 PM, July 27th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear WS,

In the beginning of R - how did you handle triggers?? Tonite - a movie came on the TV - WH kept going back to it. I realized it was a movie he had watched with OW.

I kept my mouth shut - and left the room.


What is the best way to handle this?

Granted I am not a mind reader - but I firmly believe he was thinking about her.

It is like having her ghost in the room 24/7.


Posts: 1077 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: SouthEast
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:26 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopefulintx -

Why has he never come out and told me he wanted a divorce?

I'm not sure in the case of your WS. In my case, I never wanted to leave my family. I had let the things that we needed to address in our M lead me to a bad decision. I had numerous other paths I could have chosen, and I chose the wrong one. For many of us, it wasn't until we were confronted with the reality of the impact of our choices that we were able to show how much we need our spouses and families.


Why doesn't he want to accept that I'm acting the way I am because my life has been turned upside down because of his actions?

Because doing so is facing the largest consequence of our actions. That we have changed the person we love forever, and can never go back and "fix it". I avoided facing this consequence early because I hate conflict, and owning my shit in this case would have meant not only allowing conflict, but allowing it within myself. It took quite a while to build enough strength and resolve to face it down and deal with it.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

neverendinghurt -

why can't the WS see the emotional damage they are doing to their spouse, and the overall damage they are doing to the relationship?

In my case, during my A I became obsessed with the good feelings I was receiving from xMOW. I had tuned out the entire world around me. My job, my friends, my kids and my BW. They all drifted off into the background as I obsessed.

After D-Day, I was afraid that the damage I had caused was both completely devastating and permanent. That there was no way I could repair any of it, and that maybe it would just be better to simply give up.

Why does it take so long in some cases for the penny to drop?

Because it takes something on the order of a huge earthquake to shake a WS out of their fog and to see the real world around them. Please for proper behavior, total honesty and full transparency are ripples. It took a major confrontation for me to be fully backed into a corner and to realize what I had done.

Pressing for full accountability hard and consistently is the only path I have seen that gets a WS "to get it".


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:22 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ron -

Why do WS's not simply ask for a divorce?

In my case, it was because I never wanted to leave my wife and kids. And deep inside, I had to have sensed I love I wife deeply. Whatever issues that existed between the two of us had ways to be improved.

I chose the very easy and very wrong way to go about addressing them. Once confronted with the reality of the impact of my choice, I was able to see the decisions I made and how bad they were. While I realize there are some WS's who string things along, I knew I needed to make a break from the dark world I had been in and focus on the brighter opportunities which remained solely with my BW and our kids.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

acreswild -

why has she not had time to reflect on it and have an explanation or a rationale by now, any normal person would have tried to understand what they did and why

This assumes that a WS will have a "normal" ability to self examine and learn from their past actions. I'm not certain this is even a normal capability. There are a lot of folks I know who repeat the same errors over and over again without ever examining what they are doing to enable the same mistakes. Infidelity happens to be a large and tragic mistake. But the area of not learning from self examination goes father than this one area of problems.

I had learned over many years to define myself through the eyes of others. This meant I never really created a way for me to look at my own behavior and to learn from it. This was something I had to work hard on during IC to understand about myself and to make myself a more "normal" person based on this description.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

reallylost -

Any WS, were you ever so desperate to move on to something else, someone else unknown, just the idea of a new life that you had lost all thought as to what it meant to everyone in your life.

I don't think I would describe my situation as a desperation to move on. It was more like a desire to escape the stress and strain of real life, and xMOW provided that outlet. In focusing on that escape, even obsessing about it, I lost sight of what that meant to everyone else in my life. I lost the ability to understand the impact of my choices.

In some ways, it's almost like the person so focused on violent video games that they lose the ability to realize the difference between "virtual harm" and "real physical harm". I got so distracted by the virtual world I was living in that the real world faded into the background.

Of course, that real world was always there, and when I snapped out of it, it came crashing down on me pretty hard and pretty fast!


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokendreamz -

how did you handle triggers??

In the beginning, horribly. I would remain silent, sort of taking my lickings alone because I did not feel I had the right to burden anyone else with triggers I created for myself.

The point at which they became far more effectively handled is when I came to SI. I found that through posting about a trigger and talking it through with others who I knew had been through similar challenges, I was able to get through them much more easily.

Of course, time has also been a strong healer for me. It's what I needed to distance myself from the details of memories that I wish I didn't have to deal with.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If WH wants to start a new life, why does he continue to atay here? Part of it is money, but he has someone he could stay with - am I making it too easy by not being super bitch while he's here?! (that's probably a yes). I guess I'm wondering why he doesn't try everything to leave if he really wants to.

Why does he say things like, "Next year for vacation - we should go here" or other 'future' type plans?

It's confusing!


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 9:26 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wannabenormal -

If WH wants to start a new life, why does he continue to stay here?

Because he hasn't been given the push needed to move away from fencesitting. He is being given the opportunity to live a double life, and until forced to do so it's unlikely he will change.

am I making it too easy by not being super bitch while he's here?

It's not about being bitchy. It's about being firm about what you will and will not allow. In my case, Wells had provided me with a long history of following through on what she said she would do. So when she laid down the options (counselor or attorney), I knew there would be no going back. I had to make a commitment and stick to it.

Why does he say things like, "Next year for vacation - we should go here" or other 'future' type plans?

Because until he is given the firm "there is no next year's vacation unless OW is gone, we are in counseling, etc.", he will continue to ride the fence and avoid the conflict of having to decide.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
wannabenormal
♀ Member
Member # 19772
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks LC - those are pretty obvious answers! Gah - I am tired of fencesitting. I think he's waiting for me to make the first move (filing for D - maybe booting him out, I don't know). I'm just tired.


BW, divorced: 03/09


Posts: 14252 | Registered: Jun 2008
brokenhearted58
♀ Member
Member # 19997
Default  Posted: 10:53 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need a FWAS opinion, please. H and I seperated in March and in May I had my D-Day. H was completely unremorseful. Said sex was fun with her and she was just a friend. Was not going to stop seeing her. 3 weeks ago I filed for D. H has been VERY angry ever since. A few days before our first mediation meeting, H apologised for A and said it was a big mistake. The day of mediation, he apologized again, said he still sees her but has not had sex with her for 2 months. Started to cry and say he was still very depressed and his life is not what it thought it would be.
Keeps saying he just does not love me anymore so he thnks we still need to D.

Do you think he is starting to come out of the fog? We have been together 19 years and were very in love until the A. Is there any hope of him coming back?


Posts: 101 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: getting on
justfriends
♀ Member
Member # 17867
Default  Posted: 10:58 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm trying to figure out the emotional involvement my H had in his A. It was mainly physical, although there were daily calls or texts during the last 2 months of the A(mostly initiated by the AP). They were co-workers, and he swears the calls were "work or friend" related....nothing he wouldn't have said in front of me. They were usually 20 minutes or so, on his way home from work. Nothing at home on work days. I've seen the bills. He has had female friends his whole life, so I tend to believe this.

My question is....how often and for how long did you talk to your AP? Did you talk at home while your spouse was home?

Thank you!


D-day Jan 2008
me BS (now 42)
him WS with no communication skills or heart
4 month PA
WH left 3/10/12 after 4 years of R and 18 years of M



Posts: 426 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: ca
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokendreamz,

Triggers are inevitable if your WS was involved in an EA, whether it involved sex or not. In my case, it was both EA and PA. I still trigger hard when certain things happen. I'm afraid I'm not very good at it either.

Typically, my mind takes me somewhere else and my body language disconnects with the present. This happened to me while my BW and I were at an outdoor concert together recently. Something happened (I can't even pinpoint what it was), and I was completely gone into a fog. My BW touched my arm, and told me to tell 'her' to leave.

What you witnessed with your WH was probably just that. The best thing for you is to call him on it, and shake him back to the present. Triggers are real. How you respond to them will help your WH recognize them and modify his response. One of the best places I've learned to come to be able to 'get real' is right here on this site. My BW knows about 'triggers', 'fog', 'fantasy fog', and many other terms, because I've shared them with her. I wanted her to be able to recognize what has happened (and may yet be happening) to me. Is your WH reading on this site? It helps, it really does.

Some triggers may be too painful to discuss, but it's a good strategy to get it 'called out' as quickly as possible. I went into a funk last week, and a BS in this thread helped yank me back by 'talking' back and forth. A sanity 2X4 is sometimes just what the other person needs.

Hopefully, we're all here to help, learn, and heal.

[This message edited by bear at 11:06 AM, July 28th (Monday)]


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokenhearted -

Do you think he is starting to come out of the fog?

By my read, no. He is trying to say the right things, but they are not backed up with the passion and enthusiasm of someone emerging from their fog.

Specifically, a FWS coming out of the fog will go NC with their AP. Not having sex is not the same as cutting the cord from the AP and focusing on the family you love and adore.

Also, most of the folks I have seen who have emerged form their fog do not "fall out of love" with their BS. In fact, if anything the love they display is more intense than before. This reaction is connected to the prior statement. Until your WS breaks free from the influence of the AP, there is no way to step out of the fog and know what you truly want.

Is there any hope of him coming back?

With total NC, total transparency, IC and a commitment to fix his own flaws, yes. Shy of these criteria, it's pretty unlikely because he won't see clearly.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 11:19 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokenhearted58,

I think what you're witnessing is the impact of your 180 action. You're cutting him off from being able to fence sit. Now the big question is whether or not you're interested in spending the necessary energy to determine if there's any sustainable hope that your M is salvageable. At this point, the ball is in your court.

It sounds like your WH was probably pretty deep into the PA. Although it was pure fantasy (and that might be starting to sink in), the physical memories are very powerful and real. I am experiencing those withdrawl symptons myself. It will take asignificant amount of time and effort to work through all of that.

Are you up to it? You've got the power position right now. I would suggest that you keep it. Your WH is still fogged up mightily, and probably desperate. It could shake him out of it, but he could be trying to stall your proactive action. All of the necessary steps towards R need to be actively in place PDQ, or I'd say your WH is simply trying to slow you down so he can formulate 'a plan' to have it both ways.

Your call.

[This message edited by bear at 11:24 AM, July 28th (Monday)]


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

justfriends -

how often and for how long did you talk to your AP?

For me, it was daily (yes, including weekends) and for way too much time. Some conversations were short - she was juggling multiple OM in her life at the time - and some might go for an hour or so. Conversation ranged from mundane daily stuff (what happened at work, what was on the schedule for the weekend, what chores had to get done) to total fantasy (what type of intimacy was desired at that moment, if you had a million dollars where would you go, where would you be if you could be anywhere,...).


Did you talk at home while your spouse was home?

It depends on how you define "talk". If you refer to strictly a live phone conversation, no because it would be too hard to conceal. If you include IM chats, yes we did.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

justfriends,

I talked to xOMW every day Monday through Friday, primarily from work during our A. The conversations could sometime go for an hour (and I don't even like to talk on the phone). I would never talk to her from my home, unless my W was gone. Weekends were hit and miss, but I used to 'hope' she would call and leave a voice message at the very least. Occasionally we would actually talk to each other. Whenever I would travel on business or family vacation, she would leave me voice messages to let me know how much she wanted me to get back 'home'.

Our conversations were generally charged with sexual tension and inuendo. They were fun, suggestive, and totally inappropriate. I suppose that's what made them so magnetic and addictive. I actually miss them. They were the sort of phone conversations I used to have when I was in junior and senior high school with my 'girl friends', only more graphic.

They were conversations that I certainly didn't want my BW to know about.

[This message edited by bear at 12:53 PM, July 28th (Monday)]


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, July 28th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Divorce?

Several BS's questions revolve around the question of divorce, and why that simply wasn't the first course of action on the part of the WS before they strayed. I frankly never considered splitting up with my wife. My A was all about escaping into a fantasy world of sex and no 'life' responsibilities.

BSs who've never traveled down this W route are not going to be able to get a grip on the thought process of the WS, because it's so contrary to their rational, moral thinking. "If you're going to cheat, then be straight about it and do the right thing." There's a reason it's called cheating. Most WSs don't have leaving in mind, they just slip off the road, get caught in the fantasy, and don't know how (or don't want) to get out. The longer it goes undetected to harder it gets to get out. I knew damn good and well that what I was doing was wrong, but my addiction to it disabled my ability to think and act straight. I was in way over my head. Admittedly, xOMW was too, and she was just as addicted as I was. We were both living a double life.

She did speak of divorce a couple of times, but I never did. I never explored whether or not she thought that a divorce would mean that she and I would become a real life couple. I think she was really looking to escape from her family situation, but I was not.

The mind of a WS is a very sordid, confused place during the preamble, main body, and post mortem of an A. Don't give us too much credit for rational thought.

[This message edited by bear at 1:16 PM, July 28th (Monday)]


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
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