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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
Screaminginside
♀ Member
Member # 18381
Default  Posted: 3:59 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LC, I will admit that I have been guilty of this thinking in the past, especially during WSinKS's foggy period....

The feedback we often get is we did this to ourselves, so why should anyone else care what pain we feel.

And even now, when I am particularly angry I find myself thinking that same thing. And yet, I do care, and I do realize that he is in pain, and that it really matters not that he has done it to himself. That doesn't change the pain he feels.

Thank you for your help, both you and bear. It really is immensely helpful.


BS - Me 44
WH - Him 37 WSinKS
Living together 12 years, Married 8
DDay Feb. 19, 2008

‘Nothing we can do can change the past, but everything we do changes the future.’


Posts: 994 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: Kansas
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shotthru....,

I want to tag onto LC's answer to your question about your WH's behavior post d'day. I'd say he was probably functioning in a fog, because most every WS does for varying lengths of time until they get clear.....and it may come and go thereafter for varying amounts of time. Your WH's behavior, however, sounds more like a strong addictive need to continue the behavior that gave him what he needed to get a regular fix. If you go back to several of LC's posts both in this forum and the Wayward forum, you'll read bunches about how low self-esteem and need for external validation can drive a person towards behavior they would otherwise reject. You can get sucked in, and your thinking becomes so corrupted you can't/won't stop.

Hopefully, your WH has begun to see the light, but he's still going to be in a fog with or without OP contact. Continued contact, obviously, makes getting clear-headed and working towards R nearly impossible.

I am not as far along as LC in the healing process. I am still only one trigger or a blue moment away from the fog that is my constant companion. xOMW is not a physical presence, but my mind is.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
brokendreamz
♀ Member
Member # 18436
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, July 23rd (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

what was the hardest question your BS asked?

When you finally told the truth - what was your greatest fear?



Posts: 1077 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: SouthEast
loobyloo
♀ Member
Member # 19611
Default  Posted: 3:51 AM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Meeko

Thanks so much for your replies- when H got home last night the first thing he said was 'I'm sorry for being a dick.'

It was the last day of work yesterday for 6 weeks - h told me that OW had stayed behind with all the other staff for a farewell drink.
I was so pleased that he told me off his own bat and made sure I gave him lots of praise!

Thanks again- it's good to hear other peoples experiences of working with the XOP.....

Loobyloo


Me BS
H WS
Married 8 years
D day- march 19 2008
6 week EA with coworker who was also a family 'friend.'

Posts: 142 | Registered: May 2008 | From: UK
Shotthrutheheart
♀ Member
Member # 17312
Default  Posted: 5:35 AM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LS, thanks so much for your reply!

I was online, posting and chatting with a group of people who like me were pretty low on opinions of themselves. As we each stroked the others egos, I grew more and more drawn into needed that feedback to feel good.

Your explanation of what took place was exactly what my WH was going through.

I may be asking a lot here, but what caused you to come out of the fog completely?


Me BS: 42
Him WH: 37 (two ONS with same woman)
D-Day: 11/29/07
Married 8 years (second for both) together 9.
1 daughter 5 yrs old
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://shotthrutheheart.wordpress.com

Posts: 245 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: overseas
Shotthrutheheart
♀ Member
Member # 17312
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bear, thanks for your reply!

I will go through the other posts on this forum and in the wayward forum to get a better insight on how the WS feels and what they do through.

Thanks again!


Me BS: 42
Him WH: 37 (two ONS with same woman)
D-Day: 11/29/07
Married 8 years (second for both) together 9.
1 daughter 5 yrs old
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
http://shotthrutheheart.wordpress.com

Posts: 245 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: overseas
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:55 AM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

shotthrutheheart -

what caused you to come out of the fog completely?

Believe it or not, it was the combination of being challenged combined with seeing Wells pain.

I had been NC for about five months, but still was coping with withdrawal issues, triggers, etc. There was a work colleague who had done a great deal to coach me through my promotion within the company. I respected her quite a bit, and she taught me a lot about motivation and harnessing passion for work success.

She fell under attack by a new leader who didn't see eye to eye with her business approach. I became a shoulder to cry on. There was never anything more than that with her, and I think Wells trusted that all the way along.

In that support mode, I talked this leader through some tough times. Some of these conversations were happening during the evening and on weekends. And the kicker was this person lived in the same city as xMOW.

You guessed it. Wells saw the cell detail and called me on it. She was gutted by the possibility of broken NC and false R.

I had to scramble to locate a company directory that had this person's cell on it (we have multiple directories, but many just provide an office number). I was finally able to locate it, print it off and show it to Wells. Thankfully, I had some tangible evidence to prove the person I was talking with was legit.

It also helped Wells that the next day I talked with the work colleague and told her what had happened the night before. If she were here in person she would have kicked my a$$. She was pissed that I would not think through things enough to know the scare I created would happen. From that point on, we moved our called to office lines only and only during work hours.

Sidebar - that colleague has since been let go by my employer. Personally I think it's a great loss to the company, but nothing she would have been able to change in the end.

Seeing the pain in Wells as I worked to pull up the proof that I was not sliding back plus the stress of finding the tangible proof things were OK was enough of a shock to my system to shake the rest of the fog off. Since that day, I have placed my dedication and focus squarely on Wells and our girls where it should have been all along.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
NewMama08
♀ Member
Member # 19532
Default  Posted: 10:32 AM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is this a normal WS reaction?
For almost 4 months, my WS has been giving me the "I don't remember" line for almost all of my questions. I have tried to explain to him what details I need from him, and he still says he can't remember and never will. I have explained to him that I need these details (I don't think I'm asking anything unreasonable, just the locations and a rough timeline, plus info about the way he was feeling and some examples of things they would talk about).
Last night, he came to me and said he remembered something. MOW had made a list on her myspace blog of things they shared. WH claims he can't remember most of them, but the list haunts me since I read it so many times before D-day, trying to figure out if it was about WH. I had mentioned one of these things yesterday (a song title), and WH said he'd think about it. After 1/2 hour of alone time to think, he remembered that the song was playing one night in her car during sex. He says he can't remember anything else right now.
Is it normal for it to take so long to remember one detail like that? I don't understand why it would take so long to recall that one thing. I guess I kind of figured once a memory started coming back, the rest would just follow! Is this normal WS behavior, or is he just playing games with me? Any thoughts would be appreciated!


FBW (Me)-30
FWH- 29 (WorstChoicesEver)
2 1/2-year old daughter
D-day- April 27, 2008
Working on R

Posts: 229 | Registered: May 2008 | From: NY
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NewMama -

Is it normal for it to take so long to remember one detail like that?

From what I faced, it's not so much not remembering as a lack of courage to face the details. I absolutely hate conflict of any kind. That includes with myself. So remembering a detail that would force me to face my own bad actions is something I would have ducked to shield myself.

Another fear is one of a WS triggering. Yes, we trigger just like BS's do. Only when a BS triggers, it feels like they have a right to let it out on their WS, but the reverse isn't necessarily true. The thought that we brought this onto ourselves prevents us from telling our BS that a specific memory triggers us, because we figure our BS will simply pile on the pain we are already dealing with (the trigger) adding their own pain (the hurt the BS is feeling). So we might sort of roam around in silence, saying "I don't know" and "I don't remember" in hopes we won't have to reopen the wound all over again.

This is also the reason for wanting to "just get over it" and move forward, rather than confront our past head on.

After about six months of IC, I was finally able to start facing my demons. I'm still not perfect at conflict handling and I still have plenty of room to improve. It is getting better but it takes a good amount of time.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
NewMama08
♀ Member
Member # 19532
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks LC, that makes a lot of sense. It's still tough, because every time I get a new detail, I get upset all over. I almost wish WH could just lay it all out there for me so I could be upset once, instead of having so many days of re-opening the wound!


FBW (Me)-30
FWH- 29 (WorstChoicesEver)
2 1/2-year old daughter
D-day- April 27, 2008
Working on R

Posts: 229 | Registered: May 2008 | From: NY
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When a WS (generally speaking) says that "we should get over it".....do they really believe that we will or that we can. Do they really believe it is that easy to do? Is there a timeline so to speak? Just wondering from my own experience with my h as well as some of the responses I read on other forums.

Thanks.....And thank you to all of the WS out there who are really (more than you know) helping us out as best you can. I for one applaud you for this.


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 3:04 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TO -

When a WS (generally speaking) says that "we should get over it".....do they really believe that we will or that we can.

I doubt they mean it the way it is received by many BS's. It's a defense mechanism from settling into a pity party that never ends.

You see, no one has the ability to change the past. We can wish all we want. We can regret all we want. We can have the deepest remorse ever demonstrated. And none of that changes the fact that we did something horribly wrong.

So we are faced with two choices. Look back and wallow in self pity and sorrow, thinking we don't deserve to live. Thinking that our BS really ought to leave us and move on to someone more worthy than us. Oh yeah, we throw in a little low self esteem on top of that and the situation is pretty hopeless.

Or, we try to shift the focus to the future. We get to make new choices every day, right? We can do whatever we can to make amends. We can be a better person than we were yesterday. We can learn to value ourselves so we don't have others do it for us. We can believe there is a potential for tomorrow.

And then our BS, in their legitimate need, asks us more about the A. When? Where? What did you say? What did you do? What were you thinking? And we're sucked back into the pity party area again. The heavier and more frequent the questioning, the deeper we sink and the less hope we see in the future.

So we try to deflect. I can't change the past, so why dwell on it. Wait? Isn't that what starts the cycle over again? The BS needs details that the WS is trying to defeat.

Somehow, Wells and I struck a balance. Somehow, what she needed to know did not exceed my capacity to share over time, especially after clearing the fog. Finding that balance is very difficult for both sides. But when you do, there is a sense of peace that comes with it, because the healing is working for both people, not one over the other.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Simple
♀ Member
Member # 18814
Question  Posted: 5:03 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The questions below are for WS's with multiple affairs:
1. How is this time going to be any different? How do you know or tell within you that this time is different and your spouse is not going to endure another one?

2. Do you consider your BS special out of all of them? Please explain.

Question below is for anyone WS and BS alike:

3. Have a trial separation of a week or a month helped anyone here? Will trial separation help even after both parties are in true R and have been living together during all those months? Please explain.


I can accept PM's for those wishing to keep things private.

I am seriously picking people's brains and experiences here since I feel like a complete depressed idiot right now at a cross-roads. Hence pardon me for borrowing your brains and your hearts.

/hugs to all

[This message edited by Simple at 5:05 PM, July 24th (Thursday)]


Love is a choice.

True love is harder to come by than soul mates. True love requires work.

Ignorance can be cured with knowledge. There is no cure for being an idiot.


Posts: 927 | Registered: Mar 2008
brokendreamz
♀ Member
Member # 18436
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((simple))


No- separation - we are just in the early stages of MC. And it isn't going well


Posts: 1077 | Registered: Feb 2008 | From: SouthEast
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Listening"...I truly have no words for the help you have given me in just the few questions you have answered for me. I do thank you so very much.

You know, some of us BS's (a lot of us) ramble on from time to time and speak out of anger or spite because of the hurt we feel. I think alot of what we say is out of pain. But then we read posts such as yours (or answers) and we can somehow make some sense out of something that seems so senseless.

What you said is exactly what my h says about "letting it go"....but I think I needed to hear it from another WS for it to sink in.

Thank you so much for your insight and honest answers. Well's must be a very special person, as you are.


"TO"


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokendreamz -

what was the hardest question your BS asked?

If she had not caught me that weekend, would the EA have turned PA.

When you finally told the truth - what was your greatest fear?

That because I would have allowed myself to slip so far, and the fact that my own mind would have crossed her line in the sand, I would lose her anyway. That even just the thought I could allow myself to go that far would be too far for her to recover, and for our M to be saved.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:48 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Simple -

I only had a single A, but wanted to share a response to a couple of your questions that I thought was appropriate.

1. How is this time going to be any different? How do you know or tell within you that this time is different and your spouse is not going to endure another one?

Because I have done the hard work in IC to expose my flaws. Not what was wrong with my BW. Not how the M was awful. But what was so screwed up within me that I would allow myself to have an A. I have faced those weaknesses head on, and established ways to make sure they don't creep back in ever again.

3. Have a trial separation of a week or a month helped anyone here? Will trial separation help even after both parties are in true R and have been living together during all those months? Please explain.

I asked my BW for a trial separation the weekend of D-Day. She refused, saying she would not put our kids through that turmoil. Looking back, it was the greatest blessing I could have ever received. Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, I have no doubt that separated and outside the visibility of my BW, I would have kept contact with xMOW. In doing so, I would have stayed in my foggy state indefinitely, and I truly feel our M would have ended.

I was given two choices shortly after D-Day. Call a counselor or call an attorney. Thank God I made the right choice!!!!

[This message edited by Listeningclosely at 8:56 PM, July 24th (Thursday)]


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 8:59 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TO - you are most welcome. If I can help someone out as a result of the mess I created, then it's a small repayment back against the person I should have been all along.

Wells must be a very special person

She is my Angel, my Best Friend, the one I am deeply in love with. She inspires me daily, and I am honored to have my place as her husband forever.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
bear
♂ Member
Member # 19859
Default  Posted: 11:02 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ticked Off, you know you said something in your response to LC that caught my attention. You referred to the fact that your WH had said excatly the same thing that LC said in his post, but you had been unable to accept it until you heard it from somebody else.

So much of what causes BSs and WSs trouble is the inability for the two sides to communicate with empathy towards each other. When WSs attempt to answer questions, and they just can't spit it out eloquently, the BS just can't buy it....because it could just be another lie or half-truth or total crap in their mind. Trust is gone. The WS on the other hand can get worn down by the feeling that there is no resolution in sight, nothing satisfactory will happen. Frustration.

WSs and BSs are sending and receiving information on completely different wave lengths. I can tell you, absolutely, that my brain is still cross-threaded. I don't want it to be, it just is. My BW wants me to be focused and clear-headed when we're working on the 'whys'. I'm coming around, but it's a work in progress.

I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but it was something that caught my eye. After all, my brain is still cross-threaded, and I've had a headache for 5 months.

You're right, LC's responses are always thoughtful and helpful. Not just to BSs. I've been following his posts around like a stray puppy for weeks.

Have a good night.


WH (me): 59
BW: 56
M: 34 years
Together: 38 years
2 DDs: 21 & 25
d'day: 2-11-2008
A: EA & PA 6 months


Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: South
TICKED OFF
♀ Member
Member # 8291
Default  Posted: 11:50 PM, July 24th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"bear", I do understand, I finally do understand with what you and "Listening" have said.......you made me cry over you response. You guys are right and most of us know it, but it is so damn hard to let it go, and yet we know in our hearts that we have to and need to if we want to truly reconcile.

Again, thank you "bear" and "listening"...........


Posts: 2390 | Registered: Sep 2005
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