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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blackbird -

Ditto to what prettyfuture said. A lot of what you see will rest in how your FWS focuses on the R process.

What can I expect?

A ton of confusion for a while. Addictive relationships have a way of distorting the way you see the world. As you come out of your fog, you start to see what you felt and did differently. There are a lot of things that no longer make sense, and you're not quite sure what you felt.

As you dig deeper and realize the addictive properties of an A, you start to realize that it wasn't love you felt for the OP. It was a strong need for something they gave you. In my case it was positive attention. The amount of time it takes to get to this understanding is different for each person. For me, it was about five months before I clearly saw what I felt as an addiction and not "love".

Is this something that will pass?

If your WS continues to do the work in R on himself, learning what caused his behavior and taking steps to address it, then yes it will pass.

Will I lose him to this feeling because he can't feel it for me?

Only if he backs down and caves in to the addiction instead of working on his character. It's probably way too early to know right now.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Blackbird
♀ New Member
Member # 19511
Default  Posted: 12:02 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you both so much.


Married 23 years
WS-46
Me-42
2children Daughter-16 Son-14
Dday 4/13/08
Recovering and moving on together

Posts: 18 | Registered: May 2008 | From: california
diminishingpain7
♀ Member
Member # 20072
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This may have already been asked, but I just haven't had the time to read through all the pages.

My question is, I think my WS could really use some IC. HE has had a lot happen in his past that was never really delt with and now all the A stuff too. I know he is a wonderful man and that he really needs to look inside himself to find out why he chose the path he did. I asked him recently if he though IC would help and he said no. Can I do anything to help steer him in the direction of wanting IC? OR IS this something that I just need to see if he brings up on his own? I am so lost as to how to help him the best way. I have recently taken a huge step back in making all the preparations for recovery and have asked him to play a more active instead of passive role. He is doing so great that I hate to take a step back on that front. I dont want him to think that I doubt his actions he has taken so far, he is doing so wonderfully.

What is the best route to take on IC?

OH, and he is on the boards here, I am not sure of his user name as I want him to vent and post freely. So I know he will get it reccommended, but is it enough?


Me~BW 32
Him~WH 35 OW#1 PA (no intercourse) OW#2 EA 6 mos
D-day 4/16/08
In recovery

Best post EVER ---> http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&AP=1&HL=


Posts: 240 | Registered: Jun 2008 | From: not sure where I am...
lilliolly
Member
Member # 19647
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks beach and L.C for your replies.

some more questions.

Found out today H OW going on a all girls holiday without him,she is also starting to go out more at weekends(when my H has children) drinking with her friends?? surely she can't think that much of him??

The other thing that has being playing on my mind, is do you think my H is thinking the grass is greener or suffering some sort of crisis??
I would have thought by the age of 30 he would want to settle down, this is what he has always told me, when we first met he wanted to settle down get married, have 4 kids, get our own house. the first 3 years of our marriage was fantastic then 2 years ago his mum was diagnosed with cancer and died 2 weeks later she was in her early 50's, he was so close to his mum, he would speak to her daily on the phone she was so proud of him.A year after his mum died is when i started to see changes in my H. our youngest daughter was born then, H didn't bond with her like he did our eldest daughter.W I also noticed him (and his dad) drinking more. H also said things like, there's so much more to life out there i could drop down dead tomorrow,he also said he would never kill himself,but said if your'e dead youv'e got no worries.He started going out drinking more and slowly distance himself.It was 18 months after the death of his mum he started the affair with his younger woman.


Posts: 71 | Registered: May 2008 | From: England
lilliolly
Member
Member # 19647
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks beach and L.C for your replies.

some more questions.

Found out today H OW going on a all girls holiday without him,she is also starting to go out more at weekends(when my H has children) drinking with her friends?? surely she can't think that much of him??

The other thing that has being playing on my mind, is do you think my H is thinking the grass is greener or suffering some sort of crisis??

I would have thought by the age of 30 he would want to settle down, this is what he has always told me, when we first met he wanted to settle down get married, have 4 kids, get our own house.He married me aged 25 we had our first daughter at 26,She was born very early i had eclamsia (life threatning to mum and baby) me and my daughter nearly died).
The first 3 years of our marriage was fantastic then 2 years ago his mum was diagnosed with cancer and died 2 weeks later she was in her early 50's, he was so close to his mum, he would speak to her daily on the phone she was so proud of him.
A year after his mum died is when i started to see changes in my H. our youngest daughter was born then, H didn't bond with her like he did our eldest daughter.When our daughter was 2 weeks old we nearly lost her to bacterial meningitis,H seemed all stressed out with this, I also noticed him (and his dad) drinking more. H also said things like, there's so much more to life out there i could drop down dead tomorrow i feel i need to live life to the full,he also said he would never kill himself,but said if your'e dead youv'e got no worries.He started going out drinking more and slowly distance himself from me and the kids.It was 18 months after the death of his mum he started the affair with his younger woman.When he first left us for her he still wasn't sure weather this is what he wanted. Will he now just carry on living life as single man, he now says, he doesn't want to marry again and doesn't want anymore children as he can't cope with the 2 he has??
surely though the younger OW he is with (she is 25) will want to settle down and have kids and hei'l be back in the same sitch as he was with me??

I hope this all makes sense and gives you a clearer picture, to be totally honest i'm quite worried about him.

maybe all that ive mentioned, he was feeling vunrable (like you said)??

She is obviously giving him an ego boost(that i used to before the kids came along, and what his mum used to do before she died) she is making him feel special and is taking him away from all the stresses we had together. His mum would be devastated with what he has done and is doing to his kids, deep down i think he knows that!!

Lilliolly


Posts: 71 | Registered: May 2008 | From: England
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:17 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

diminishingpain -

What is the best route to take on IC?

Based on my experience, IC is an absolute requirement to ensuring the cause of choosing an A is uncovered and steps are taken to avoid it ever happening again.

Maybe if you ask him to try sessions for a specific period of time - keep it from being the overwhelming sense of years of therapy - he can get the experience of it and realize it's going to help him immensely.

If it helps, I am more than willing to PM with him about my experience with IC and why I think it's so critical. The door is open.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:28 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lilliolly -

Found out today H OW going on a all girls holiday without him,she is also starting to go out more at weekends(when my H has children) drinking with her friends?? surely she can't think that much of him??

It's not about what she thinks of him, it's about his addiction to her. I'm not the only WS here to have been infatuated with someone who did not return affection in the same amounts. She gave just enough to give me a fix of positive attention, but then turned to the next guy on her list - keeping us all looking like fools.

The other thing that has being playing on my mind, is do you think my H is thinking the grass is greener or suffering some sort of crisis??

When you question your own self image, anyone who counters that negative self image becomes a draw. If it's a younger woman, it can feed a guys ego that he's "still got it".

Will he now just carry on living life as single man,

He will as long as no one holds him accountable for his actions. If there are no consequences, there is no compelling reason for him to change.

surely though the younger OW he is with (she is 25) will want to settle down and have kids and hei'l be back in the same sitch as he was with me??

Not necessarily. There are a whole population of people, men and women alike, who have no desire to be parents. They like the freedom they have without the responsibility kids bring on. She could very well want to avoid parenthood on her part.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
nooneeverthought
♀ Member
Member # 20157
Default  Posted: 8:20 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know in most people's opinions, the FWS who is truly remorseful will sit with a BS and answer the endless questions over and over again. Even though I want to ask them over and over I don't think that is helpful in our healing. My FWH started IC in 02/08. Ended the A in 05/08. Moved home in 06/08. I definately saw signs of withdrawal from the A and we had lots of trickle truth. In his IC he has admitted having had suicidal thoughts his whole life, but, had them nightly during S. He has apologized over and over for not being totally honest with me and seems to be truly and totally committed to R and I believe him when he says he is totally no contact other than passing when shifts change at work, he said they don't speak. My question is what can I do for him? We have the same IC and MC, she said that in his case, he would rather disappear than face the hurt he has caused me. So I get consumed with guilt when I want to ask him a question. I know he is hurting as much as I am and forgiving himself just seems beyond his grasp right now. Is all of this a normal process for a FWS? Any suggestions on how to heal him at the same time as healing me would be appreciated.


it doesn't matter where you go in life ,it's who you have the beside you

Posts: 8493 | Registered: Jul 2008
Ingrid
♀ Member
Member # 20126
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WS continues to be unremorseful. After one month of separation, and him still continuing his stripper involvement, I just cannot live with it, and need HIM to tell ME his choice, which I posed to him ((again)) this morning via e-mail. Even though he said for me to be patient, give him time to work out his issues, etc., blah, blah, blah, give some more time with the stripper while HE decides if he wants his wife and family? I don't think so.

After the past month of agonizing, I think I'm beginning to really know myself a lot better. And am willing to be strong. And trust God.

I know and feel it just is NOT acceptable to me, for him to be carrying on this way, and for me to just sit back la de dah, and wait to see if he'll have a change of heart, become remorseful, get help with his obvious sex addiction ((finally--after 18 yrs))etc...I just cannot do it. It's too hurtful. He has a lot of problems, sex addiction, money problems, inappropriate relationships (obviously), but I do believe I am gathering enough self-respect to feel I deserve to be treated much better than this, as his wife. He broke our marriage vows, destroyed my trust, and is still breaking them as of yesterday. Every single day he's been out of our home, and living in a 12-step recovery house for addicts, he has been calling the object of his addiction, the stripper. Does this sound like a person who's trying to get help for their problem???

I cannot sit in the sewer any longer, nor can my children.

What do any of you feel about this? I am a Christian, and I know God desires all marriages to last forever, but if one wants out, I'm feeling then let them be out, and move on. That's the healthy thing to do, I feel.
God gives us BSpouses a heart overflowing with love, why waste it on a WS who abuses us, cheats on us repeatedly, and disrespects us and treats us like a doormat??


Posts: 232 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: L.A. CA
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:39 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nooneeverthought -

My question is what can I do for him?

First and foremost, don't let him "disappear". I had similar traits, mostly fueled by a fear of conflict. And once a FWS has an A, talking about anything related to the A brings on thoughts of a conflict we can never win. So we avoid it to avoid a "guaranteed loss".

The best thing you can do is to keep the conversation alive by assuring your FWH that you want the conversation to keep going because you want to face the issue together as a team. If you can, explain the reason you need to know the answer to a given question to set up the question. If you need to know how many hours they were on the phone each day, tell him why you are asking. Maybe because it helps you show him how he could use that time to do things that show you affection instead. Or maybe to show how addictive his relationship was that it went beyond his other responsibilities. Whatever the reason, it will help him understand that you aren't just grilling him to punish him, but seeking to understand.

Is all of this a normal process for a FWS?

I don't know that there is ever a real "normal" in any of this. But for those of us who hate conflict, and there are a lot of FWS's in that boat, it is definitely common to fear talking about our A and it's impact. As I said before, when you feel like you are always losing arguments anyway, you don't enjoy a conversation you feel like you are assured to lose. The way out is to find the words and environment that turn it from BS versus WS to BS with WS, working together to face the results together. If you can do that, you both win.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 12:50 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ingrid -


Does this sound like a person who's trying to get help for their problem???

It doesn't, because the only help for his problem involves quitting his addiction cold turkey. There are no patches, no gum, no hypnosis options. The only path to restoring health for him is a complete break from his addiction.

What do any of you feel about this?

I am glad you have been able to do the self exploration you have done to figure out what you need. It may help to basically help him understand he has three choices. This is not an ultimatum. It is not a demand. It is the set of facts based upon his actions. His choices would be:

1. Go completely NC with OW, and start work with you and other resources (IC and MC) to try to heal.

2. Go completely NC with OW, not lean on you but use the time on his own to "work out his issues" with a clear mind, and then determine together what his next steps are.

3. Continue his contact with OW, and start the process of ending his relationship with you.

So long as you keep this information factual, and keep it focused on the fact that the results are based on a choice that HE makes, it's about as fair a response as I can think of.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
nooneeverthought
♀ Member
Member # 20157
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LC: Thank you, Your approach to why I need to know is what I think I was missing. I just asked over and over and never explained my reasoning, he thought instantly I was trying to trap him.

I had found some love letters from OW from when the A started. After I had myself together I read them out loud to him, I explained to him I was not making fun or trying to make him feel bad. After I got done, he was amazed at the veiled insults to me and the manipulation he hadn't read in them at the time.

I feel a responsibilty to him also as we both let our marriage break down. I don't really believe it is all me, me, me that gets to make the rules. Especially with a conflict avoider, I want him to feel empowered and equal to me.


it doesn't matter where you go in life ,it's who you have the beside you

Posts: 8493 | Registered: Jul 2008
Ingrid
♀ Member
Member # 20126
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEED DESPERATE ADVICE:

My husband just came over, telling me to read an e-mail he wrote me.

(He is better in writing than in words)

It said he wants to give our marriage another chance. That "it's the right thing to do".

I said well, for my sake, I need for him to call the stripper right now, in front of me, calling it off, saying he's never going to see her again or talk to her again. At first he said, "no I'm not gonna do that". I asked why not? if you want our marriage to work. "You can't control me, what I do, it's not gonna work YOUR way all the time"......then I asked again, 'WHY CAN'T YOU DO THAT IF YOU WANT OUR MARRIAGE TO WORK"? He said; "I guess because I'm partly in love with her", but I'm in love with you too."

Then I proceeded to throw him out, saying nevermind, I can't deal with that, and I'll be letting you know about making an appt to go see the attorney. Then he got on his phone, and called her with me there. She answered, and he said: "I. . . . I uh . . . can't really see you anymore". Then listened to what she was saying for a minute or so, and said "no, everything's not all right". . . .then listened for a couple more seconds, then hung up.

NOW WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO????

I didn't feel any remorse whatsoever from him, no apology, nothing. He merely said he wants our marriage to have another chance, because it's the right thing to do.

I don't think I can ever trust him again, nor do I want a man who's partly in love with another woman.

PLEASE HELP I guess that's a start anyway.

I want to tell him I feel that was a pretty lame attempt to call it off!!!! And what I want is repentence and commitment!!!! Or I have to move on with my life.

PLEASE SOMEONE ADVISE ME.

I feel like such a fumbling idiot not knowing what to say or do. WHAT SHOULD I DO OR SAY AT THIS POINT????

[This message edited by Ingrid at 4:50 PM, July 11th (Friday)]


Posts: 232 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: L.A. CA
reality247
♀ Member
Member # 16561
Default  Posted: 7:08 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are you a WS who wanted recovery, eventually became 100% truthful(after the fog), remorseful,attended IC,never wanted D, but BS could not R and chose D? And if so, what was your relationship like with XBS post D? Did you resent XBS for not being able to R?
Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

Posts: 329 | Registered: Oct 2007
Listeningclosely
♂ Member
Member # 16472
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ingrid -

First pause. There will be many emotional moments like the one you are experiencing now.

It may not seem like it now, but this choice by your WH is the first wise one he has made. When I told Wells the weekend of D-Day that i wanted to R, the top thought in my mind was that R was the right thing to do. And I still thought in my foggy state that I was in love with xMOW. I had no idea how I was going to get by never hearing from her again.

It wasn't until some five months later that I recognized what I was experiencing was an addiction, not love. And prolonged time of no contact was what I needed to understand that.

In a moment of decision, with his head spinning, he chose you. That's a pretty powerful statement regarding the love inside his heart.

As always, you are welcome to PM Wells or I if you need to work through this. But I see this as a good sign.


BW(her)- 45, FWH (me) 48
4 month Online EA
M 23 years, together for 28
4 Daughters - 21, 18, 14 and 12
d-day 6/2/07, in R
FORGIVENESS 1/1/2008!!!
"Action expresses priorities." -
Mohandas Gandhi

Posts: 4454 | Registered: Oct 2007 | From: One Particular Harbour
SoDisappointed
♀ Member
Member # 19609
Default  Posted: 8:05 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

reality, great questions, ones i have also been wondering.


DDay-Feb08
Divorced

Oh, my friend, it's not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left. ~Hubert Humphrey


Posts: 565 | Registered: May 2008
cani4give
♂ Member
Member # 19601
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, July 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My apologies if this has been asked previously.

My FWW had a 4-month EA/PA with a coworker. She rewrote our marriage (in her mind), telling herself she would never make me happy and even that we may have got together for the wrong reasons (15 years ago!). Now she is completely remorseful, is doing all the right things (IC, MC), and tells me all the time how sure she is that I am completely the right person for her, how much she adores me, and how stupid she was for giving up on us.

My questions are, why couldn't she figure this out before the A? Why can she see this so clearly now but just 3-4 months ago she was sleeping with OMM and ready to throw away her whole life?


BH: Me
FWW: Her
2 amazing children

Posts: 615 | Registered: May 2008
lilliolly
Member
Member # 19647
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, July 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I asked a few questions the other day, one of them was would my husband and the OW last, I think it was Beach that replied onlong the lines of they will continue unless one of them loses their jobs or a life or death situation.

there seem to be lots of w's on her that haven't had either of these but have come out of their fog, and had reality smack them in the face.

So my question is what things help them realise,there must be something that makes them click and think what am i doing!! i bet there are lots of diferent reasons??

lilliolly


Posts: 71 | Registered: May 2008 | From: England
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, July 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

reality247 - It doesn't apply to my situation. I hope someone else can answer to your question.


cani4give -


I am 1.5 year out of remorseful and redeemed FWW.

My questions are, why couldn't she figure this out before the A? Why can she see this so clearly now but just 3-4 months ago she was sleeping with OMM and ready to throw away her whole life?

Let me briefly say, for some people, it was started out as a friendship, and it was becoming slipperly slope and her/his mental boundary became fuzzy and then as long as he/she was not get caught by anyone, selfishly emotionally cross the boundary, before they know it, it became a part of their daily life and made them think like they couldn't live without it. Thus, the addictive part take over their daily life.


Also some of them are like my sitch, we were open to start with and sex only meeting was ok, but as time goes by, mental boundary become fuzzy and selfishly emotionally cross the boundary and before we know it, it went deeper and stuck. At that stage, it became a part of our life and couldn't stop.


The way the OPs made FWSs feel fuels the addictive relationship. Many stroking egos....My XOM was out of league (younger, artistic, lean athretic, musician looks). Over time, I made him up as a fantasy boyfriend. Even though I was married, but I was thinking of myself as a wife and I was a royal girlfriend to xOP at the same time and I wanted to be connected with him 24/7. XOM's telling me we were hot looking couple and that having xOM being into me made me feel I still 'got' it, didn't help. It made me fell like I was acting in the fantasy world. Acting out with the ideal fantasy lover in the limited time, sex became intense and leaving me the feeling of wanting for more and looking forward to the next meeting. It gave me the high and was getting addictive activities for me.

Speaking from my own experience, when most FWSs were not in the normal 24/7 relationship with xAP and not in the marrieage where there is no domestic responsibilities, taking care of kids, or paying the bills, most WS tend to rominticize xAP looking through the rose colored glasses and think xAP is ideal person in their view. Limited time meetings/communication fuels the fantasy world and it enabled FWSs to perpetuate the fantasies and became the intense meeting/chat session and look forward to the next session.

I hope this makes sense.



If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 6:49 PM, July 12th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

lilliolly-

So my question is what things help them realise,there must be something that makes them click and think what am i doing!! i bet there are lots of diferent reasons??

As for other reasons, some of them would snap out of it, when they are served D papers. As for my sitch, it was open to H and no one else, so it was matter of when I would end it. I was confused and I wasn't remoseful for a while.

However..having a double life took a toll on me.... depleted myself and I had identity crisis (wife, mother, and a girlfriend to xOM) and I didn't know who I was anymore.... I felt emptiness inside of me.

I also didn't want my kids to notice about my frequent going out.

Yes, each people has different reason....


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
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