BS's, please do not answer by proxy for your WS, stick to your situation.
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[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:49 PM, July 3rd (Thursday)]
My first question:
Why the "I don't know" or "I cannot remember".
I know many of the minute details may escape you, but EVERY detail except for the very clinical explaination of the act itself?
WH (Detached) seems to be unable (unwilling in my mind) to remember any details, cannot give me an "example" of what converstaion may have been ( other than it was about work & family uh ok...). He says they never talked about sex, that there was some "flirting" but cannot give me any examples, other than to say: "you know...flirting.
No I do not know. I don't know what it looks like to see my husband flirt with another woman with the goal of having sex with her. I don't know what get you from A to Z, as I have never gone there.
I see this in part as protecting himself. If he doesn't look / dig deep enough, he can still hide from it. WE both know he had horrible behavior at that time, but he won't look at JUST how bad it was.
WH had 10 OWs in a span of 6 years...all different types of affairs, the last being a LTA (long distance EA & PA).
How can he not remember most anything I ask? He does however seem to be able to remember things that are self serving.
Can any of you give me insight into this.
thanks in advance
I can almost see it talking a few weeks....it must be terrifying to admit, as well as to face yourself.
We are almost 11 months past D Day. What are the chances it will ever happen? I think if he is willing to hide this long, he is willing to hide forever???
My WH and I are R our marriage. He reassures me that he loves me and only me and is happy with us. He also works with the OW. He does not want to talk about the A or the details that surround it. Why as a WS is it so hard for him to talk with me about the A? We both know it happened.
While I know now I had to face my demons in order to heal it took quite a while for me to be ready to do so.
I have confronted my WH with seemingly obvious proof only to be told it's not true.
The most recent confrontation came about over a detailed invoice for a car rental used during a 'business' trip. Several things pointed to OW being there. He swears she was not.
Anyway, the invoice says the car was returned in OW's city (she lives in another state!). I love this part - wanna know what he said? It was a billing error! Of all the cities it could be, they happened to 'erroroneusly' type in hers.
No every detail will not escape you but there are a lot that will. Sometimes these details are buried so deeply that they cannot be remembered unless you try very hard to pull those memories out. Also, it is very hard to remember details of conversations. Parts of conversations: yes, a overall theme of the conversations: yes, but not all the details. I find that writing things out it helps me to remember some of the details that I have forgotten or cannot remember when I am asked.
When he says “flirting” it may not have been X rated talks but innuendos. I know that innuendos were used a lot in the “flirting” I got and the way I “flirted” back.
IMO, He probably is protecting himself from the pain and also thinking that he is saving you from more pain. Him looking at how bad it was makes him uncomfortable, embarrassed, or whatever so he is able to compartmentalize all of this and bury it deep so he will not have to deal with the repercussions. Maybe it is that he cannot see differences between the OW’s, could it be that they all blend together?
Has he tried to write? Starting at the beginning and going through it all to the end? If he hasn’t this will help. The first time writing will be like an overview, if he goes back and reads what he wrote more memories will surface and he will be able to fill in some more information. From what he wrote you can ask him questions. Writing him questions and having him answer in writing also can be of help.
It takes a lot of courage and strength to admit to the wrong doings of oneself. Please let him know that you need him to answer your questions for you both to heal.
I am sure that if your husband says that he loves you that he means it. If he is working with the OW has NC been established? Sorry to say this but if he is not willing to talk about the A he may still be in it. It is either that or that he is too embarrassed to tell you what happened. You will have to be specific on how much of the details you want to know and let him know how much to tell you. Do you want every little detail on what happened? You will have to decide how much you wish to know. And then again it may be hard for him to talk to you about it because he wants to sweep it under the rug. This will not help either of you and he needs to understand that. You need your questions answered to heal and it will help him heal to get the truth out. If he keeps it in it will poison him and I can tell you when that happens it hurts horribly. Only when I got all the truth out did the pain start to go away.
I don’t think that a WS thinks that their BS is a moron, but more that the less they know the better. He does not understand yet that you know and he needs to admit so that you can continue on. He needs to own his own shit as we say. He is blame shifting to anything that he believes will make him look better. And I believe he is probably still in the fog and not seeing everything as it actually is. Of course when he does see what is actually going on he will see that what he is saying now is utterly ridiculous.
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You are dead on - he's confused still, really has no one to talk to (other than me and OW - probably the last 2 peeps he should be talking to!)
I gathered he says these things for protection. I can see that he just can't stop telling them either. Once you start, it's hard to stop.
I found the 'billing error' to be the best lie so far. Completely uncreative.
I ask because my H is totally foggy and him not having anyone to talk to, I am sincerely worried (not even from a wife's perspective like, "when will he see how great I am?" I'm kinda past that; but in general - it can't be healthy for him to keep all this stuff internalized, you know?)
I would have loved not to talk about what happened but my husband helped me a lot although at the time I really didn’t like the way he did it. He kept asking questions, lots and lots of questions. He would then ask them in a different way. It seemed like every day he would ask the same questions. Then one day he asked a few questions in a way that he hadn’t before. We were at lunch at the time. On my way back to work it was like a lightening bolt hit me. For some reason the way he asked the questions I was able to see things in a different way and put things together. That answered a lot of his questions.
Another thing that he did was to prove that the things I was told were lies. Then he would be there when I needed someone to lean on. He always assured me that he would not run and he supported me so much.
It is not healthy to internalize this stuff, it will only bring on depression that will get worse as time goes by.
Could you get your WS to write out what has gone on and the things that he thinks about? Write questions to him and have him answer them? This helped us a lot also.
To focus more on each other could you start by asking your WS to write 3 things that he feels about you and then you do the same? Maybe make this a weekly thing, or even a daily thing. If he can shift his focus to you I think it will be easier for him to come out of the fog.
Does he read here or post here? That would help. If he doesn’t there are a lot of great articles in the healing library that you could print off and give to him to read. Jacobs letter is a really good one.
Challenging me to make sure I didn't hide behind my conflict avoidance, then giving me a safe environment to talk by making it a discussion instead of a confrontation.
Encouraging me through the early stages of IC. It was frustrating for her I think when I wouldn't offer a whole lot regarding what I talked about in IC. As I got stronger I started to share more. All along I had strong support from her for the IC process.
Always making it clear she simply wanted me to be happy. From the start, she told me I had to decide in or out (I asked for a trial separation - she refused and it was the best thing she ever did for me). But whichever way I chose she supported it because she only wanted to know I was happy. As it turns out, I think we both benefited from my choice
She was patient while I waded through my fog. It takes a prolonged period of NC for the fog to lift. She never lost confidence that it would.
She helped me reintegrate with the family I had withdrawn from. When the kids would rebel because I was so out of touch with their reality, she would make sure the kids knew I still needed to be respected as their Dad, and then coached me on things that would make it easier for me to get back in touch with (in her words) "the rythm of the household".
She read along with me After the Affair, and we openly discussed each chapter when we both finished. She reads much faster than I do, yet she patiently waited until I caught up so we could face this thing together.
She focused on what it took to recover - for her and for us. She basically left xMOW out of it. If she had animosity toward her, she never showed it to me. It was always a focus on making us the best us we could be, and turning our back to xMOW.
Like I said, I know there's a ton more I'm missing here. But these were great starters.
I guess I'm not only trying to help ME, but to help him too. I feel like a goober at times - sometimes I think, he's not into you...then I think, he doesn't know what he wants. Be there, you still care for each other.
One step at a time. Maybe just getting him to journal his thoughts. There is something very powerful about writing things down.
I ask myself that every day, WHY did she stray from our marrage ?
Forgiving, that's easy.
Trusting again, that's hard.
"When you take things for granted, the things you are granted get taken away."~ RevRun.
I have had a bad habit of bringing 'her' up. I try so hard not to, but when I see on paper that things he said were one way really weren't, I get so fired up. I need to work on that. He has said it's not about her...but in my mind, she has a lot to do with why we're not moving on now.
My BW was strong and didn't need saving. At times, I allowed myself to feel lower when she would point out where I was falling short of her expectations (not her fault, totally my own). And I wouldn't counter any criticism from her because I figured I would just lose the argument anyway so why bother.
While traveling on business and spending hotel nights alone, I found a site that had a lot of similar people. And you know what we all did? Stroked each others egos. We pretended to ourselves we were "just friends" having fun. I was kidding myself all along. By the time I knew how deep I was in, I was addicted to the positive attention and couldn't let it go.
It had nothing to do with my BW. And I wasn't thinking about her at all during the A. I was purely focused on getting my fix to counter my low opinion of myself.