Now, H is in the funk again... not showering, not changing clothes, not caring about his hygiene.
He came up and held me last night again and we talked briefly about it. I almost felt disconnected. If I let myself feel too much I would shatter. I even said that at one point. He said he should have said that sometimes he doesn't feel like having sex...not that it was directed at me in any way. So adding the 'with you' part gave it meaning that he didn't intend. Whatever. Is there really any difference at this point? I told him I have lived in an affection less and sexless marriage for years and I can't do it anymore, that I deserve better. He had his arm around me and was holding my hand and said then what's this. Umm, guilt. was my answer.
i think at one point he must have thought I wanted sex last night b/c he was like "You know, I just don't feel like having sex tonight". I said don't worry, i wasn't asking and I honestly don't want to have it...ever. I am no one's pity party. He was taken back a bit but I meant it at this point. Him wanting it now would just be out of obligation and I am not wanting that.
He said at one point he needed to talk about it in IC b/c his head was messed up, it has nothing to do with me. Who knows. MC is not until 9/9 and no sooner appointments.
As far as being the aggressor. FNF, you in no way were overstepping. But I have initiated 90% of the time since dday. And probably another 8% of the time I manipulated the situation so that he would intiate. I need to be wanted and desired. I can't do this anymore.He owes that to me, for me to feel special just a few times, and wanted.
I'm sorry. i seem to make it all about me lately. I am reading along, but I just feel so overwhelmed with my own crap that I am useless. You all are so wonderful and helpful and caring...I will repay that, I promise.
H is very careful around me. Very sweet and well, just careful. He knows I am on the brink. i know I am on the brink. I don't know how much longer i can feel so second best and unwanted. He argues my point but his words and actions are what tell the truth. I feel like I am losing myself and becoming and empty shell and I hate him for doing it to me.
Weepy- I would agree on the depression suggestion but would be interested to hear why your IC believes it's not.
I found the topic of checking on our WH's interesting ie: not being gone for hours at a time. Surprisingly....and maybe I'm still too dumb & naive but I don't worry about it much. I used my recorder 2 days months ago and didn't capture anything worthy, I used spooftel and called from "Ow's #" and he didn't answer but instead called me immediately after. He has Monday & Friday's by himself all day (watching the kids but that wouldn't stop him) while I work and these are the days they had sex for the last year but I know there is nothing I can do about it. If he's going to continue his A, there is nothing I am going to be able to do to stop him. He could lie about anything- create a false work schedule, lie on his time sheet...have his co-workers lie for him. I have come to the realization that nothing is out of the realm of possibility and therefore....not much I can do. I have cell phone records but don't check those much because incoming calls don't say who they're from anyways so...he's not dumb enough to call her from his phone if I'm reviewing them. He never used the internet for anything although I do have passwords for his myspace and have checked the messages.... I don't know. sometimes I do think I'm still too naive and other times I just think it doesn't matter- he's gonna do what he wants to do and I can't stop him. Yes, the serenity prayer pops into my head here too.
I would go insane if I worried daily.
[This message edited by Whatnow28 at 7:40 PM, August 25th (Monday)]
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
I know he's depressed, but he'll never admit it. Acts like he's the king of the world with his IC. He's so proud he's down to once a month. Some shrink Huh?
I'm off to bed for the night... apparently. H shut up everything downstairs even though I never go to bed with him anymore. But I'm tire.
See ya'll in the am.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I'm sorry. i seem to make it all about me lately
I feel like I am losing myself and becoming and empty shell and I hate him for doing it to me
SoLost, that is why we are here..for the most part.
When you say you are on the brink,what does that mean to you? Is your iC on 9/9 too?
Try to hold it in till then,SoL (thats what I am doing).
Wishing you loads of strength, SoL.
I am off to quickly read Shirley's article now (thanks Shirley).
Glad your DD is feeling better.
My H also seems to be in a dont care zone re himself. Has to be related to his depression too. There is so much we can do. And the rest is up to them. I dont obsess over him like I used before DDay. I have realised that he is quite capable of looking out for himself, and if he doesnt, its because he doesnt want to. Best we can do, I guess, is manage how this affects us.
Ukg, has H scratches and bruises up and down him yet? did he survive the weekend intact?
Actually...nevermind that.DOnt much care about him..
HOW ARE YOU, SWEETIE?
And the sex, well, H hasn't been interested since May. MY fault apparently because I make it a "competition". I'm not there to make love with him apparently, I'm there to PROVE I'm the best he's ever had. Can't do it, can I?
I've gone into affair mode -- turned off all interest except for when I'm alone. I look at him and can't stand the thought of him touching me and I keep reminding myself that he sucks in bed anyway. I'm not getting anything out of it other than lowering my already low self-respect. Why am I chasing this loser?
H is very careful around me. Very sweet and well, just careful. He knows I am on the brink. i know I am on the brink. I don't know how much longer i can feel so second best and unwanted.
he's gonna do what he wants to do and I can't stop him. Yes, the serenity prayer pops into my head here too.
The rest of the story is pretty unspectacular. The six month information dump was the end of the trickle truth and the beginning of the long uphill climb, and it has been long.
I went through the same stages as pretty much everyone else. Disbelief, depression, anger (or maybe fury is a better description). But time (and IC) really do have a way of pulling us through.
Overall things are good now. I still have moments and days when I trigger and definitely some lingering anger and regrets, although those too are fading. I sometimes think I'm in a funny position as I hate everything about the A and the way it devastated my life and my beliefs, but I also recognize that my H was like a lit bomb. I didn't recognize it (hell, he didn't recognize it), but he was a disaster waiting to happen. He has often said that being caught and dealing with the aftermath has literally saved his life, that he feels like a whole person for probably the first time ever. HurtShirley, I think your posts sometimes really resonate with me because I think our H's are very similar in a lot of ways.
So I'm older, sadder and wiser, but we're in a better place than we ever would have ended up without the implosion. My H has changed in every way. We now know ourselves and each other in ways we never did before. I wish there had been some other way of getting here, I really do, but sometimes I force myself to stop and look at the "here" and be grateful for it regardless of the path.
The challenge for me now is to sort out my culpability in this--not in an excuse the affair way, but in a figuring myself and why I accepted so little for so long way. My H said last night that while there hadn't been any other undisclosed infidelity-type stuff, he feels he was never even close to having been the husband I deserved and how much he regrets the wasted years.
And he was right. I can think of a million ways that was true. So why did I not only accept that but tell myself it wasn't he case? Why didn't I ever really bring these thoughts up to a conscious level and really examine them? Why did I give up so much career-wise? Why did I resent having a husband who was considered a phenom at work but acted like a child at home but never *do* anything about it?
And I hate to say it, but in some ways this is the hardest part of this journey because it's my turn to do some of the heavy lifting.
I'm sorry, I know I should know this, but have you guys talked about the sex issues in MC? Do you think your H is uncomfortable with intimacy (not sexual) in general? The computer time, the porn, the willingness to make an effort for sex in an A but now in the M, all sound so much like intimacy issues. It really is about him, not you.
Welcome, but sorry you have to be here.
Ugh. I'm sorry. It almost sounds like he believes deep down that he's so worthless that he'll wind up alone and toothless in the end so he might as well just drive everyone away and get it over with. It's hard to believe his IC isn't seeing through this. Whose idea was it to go down to once a month?
How are you doing? I read your last posts and, honestly, I think you need to just shut this FOW out of your life. Do you really believe that continued interaction with her is going to give you anything but more anguish? I'm worried that you're giving her a sense of power here and that she's crazy enough to want to keep that going.
Hugs to all
I enjoyed reading your story and find it hopeful to hear a "happy ending"
The more and more I read everywhere I realize that WH has SO much to do that he hasn't begun...but *I* also have a ton to do- not only my own healing but looking at myself and why did I also accept the way things were?
((HUGS)) weepy- The only thing I can think is that your M could possibly be drastically improved if your WH does have depression and was treated for it. I think it goes back to that basic concept of meeting each other needs.
Forgivenotforget: I hear ya on the taking so long to figure it out if another A were to happen. I *hope* that due to the previous A I will be more open & aware...and through periodically checking on things to ensure he's being honest...hopefully I would discover it. It is scary though to hear how many other go through false R....there's just no perfect solution.
I've actually been wanting to use my voice recorder again on a Monday or Friday when WH is home. I think he knows enough not to subject the kids to OW again...that would confuse them to no end...so if she were coming over he would have to be extra sneaky about it....which would also limit them to what rooms are available so I'm fairly sure if my VR doesn't pick up anything that I'm safe those days anyways.
The computer time, the porn, the willingness to make an effort for sex in an A but now in the M, all sound so much like intimacy issues. It really is about him, not you.
You know, that's the first time I have thought of that. No doubt he has intimacy issues. Even in MC he will make a joke if things get too intense and they will often stop him and point out how he couldn't handle that and why that was. It's the part about it not being all about me that is just hard to believe in my heart. It just hurts. And to have to go through the whole affair and all the hurt that I went through those five years and afterwards only to have to have my husband learn how to want to make love to me? It just seems like too much.
Being on the brink. Honestly, I feel like I may have a complete breakdown at any moment and just lose it. I hold it together every day all day and I feel like glass. One more thing and I will crash in to a million pieces, never to be put back together again. Like the men with white coats will have to come take me away. It is so frightening for me to write that because it is so painfully true.
You all are simply wonderful. You have your own pain to deal with and yet as I sink you reach out and pull me up. You will never know how truly important to me that has been and is. I feel like I am drowning and I can't help anyone else yet until I get myself about water. I wish I knew how to do that.
Now you can all throw 2X4at me. I have no IC appointment. I haven't been going b/c we have been going to MC and I was doing really, really well. H goes to IC pretty often. I think I need to call her today and make an appointment. I was going to do that yesterday but she called here first to make our next appointment and H talked to her.
So why did I not only accept that but tell myself it wasn't he case? Why didn't I ever really bring these thoughts up to a conscious level and really examine them? Why did I give up so much career-wise? Why did I resent having a husband who was considered a phenom at work but acted like a child at home but never *do* anything about it?
These are the questions that I have been asking myself lately and I am trying to be truthful to myself with the answers. Unfortunately, the answers aren't pretty. They make me angry with myself for putting up with all the crap for the facade of a perfect marriage. I was living with a mask just as much as he was. On the outside, everything is great. The reality was I was putting up with so much shit and doing everything to make it "okay" so I could be married. It just makes me so angry with myself.
I DID NOT START THIS CYCLE - I RESPONDED TO IT FOR MY OWN SANITY.
Can we get LTA bumperstickers made with this as our motto?
Unfortunately, the answers aren't pretty. They make me angry with myself for putting up with all the crap for the facade of a perfect marriage. I was living with a mask just as much as he was. On the outside, everything is great. The reality was I was putting up with so much shit and doing everything to make it "okay" so I could be married.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 10:30 AM, August 26th (Tuesday)]
I ask myself every day how I could settle for a marriage almost completely devoid of emotional intimacy. So many lost years. I'm just sick with grief and fury.
My WH is NC, completely remorseful, transparent and doing everything he can to become a different person. He is going to AA and SLAA and picked up his 60-day chips recently. I have told him what kind of spouse I want to have and if he can't be that person, I am gone. Now I just have to wait and see if the person who lied to my face for years can actually keep his promise.
On D-Day, WH was ready to shoot himself because of the lies. He confessed to everything on the day he lost his job. I had already filed for D and he had moved out to accept a promotion and transfer to another region. He was promoted one day and fired seven days later. He had nowhere to live and he asked to come home. That's when he revealed everything.
He thought he was a master of the universe who thought that having his pick of the skanks was one of the perks of being an executive. Little did he know that skanks tell other skanks when they're fucking the king. And then you become known as a player and you become a skank magnet. He was certain that the skanks weren't talking to each other and I just had to laugh at him. When you're fucking the king, you have to tell someone. I mean, you can't keep that a secret. It's way too juicy.
Everybody in his company knew what he was about. Except me. The man I worked with for eight years was like Darth Vader in the workplace. All business. No flirting. Ever.
I don't know this man.
After weeks of paralyzing grief, I am now really pissed off. Actually, that doesn't even begin to describe how I feel. Right now I'm enraged at the fact that he was fucking around, feeling the rush of being hot for someone new and feeling that someone new being hot for him when I was sitting at home praying that our marriage would get better.
He is a sex addict and he is in therapy (so am I) and he sees and accepts his condition. It still makes me ill.
The LTAs were with total skanks and employees in the factories he managed. He got fired in part (I believe) because top execs were on to what he was doing. Like some of you, I stayed because the lifestyle was good. I stayed because I kept hoping he would change and focused on working on myself (I'm in AA and GSA with lots of sobriety). But it shocks me when I think about how little I demanded from him. While I was giving him his "space," others were giving him head.
I was his dream woman when we married. I'm educated, successful, a former model and a business owner with lots of clients who love me. I am independent, adventurous and fun. All the things he loved in me turned into reasons to have the affair. He said he did it because I didn't need him. Well, he complained about having too much to do around the house so I picked up the slack for him and then--wa-la--he wasn't needed.
A revenge affair seems really appealing right now. I can play the tape to the end and know that I would only feel worse afterwards. I just want my asshat WH to feel as bad as I do.
Why did I settle? I don't know. But I won't be settling any longer. I am calling the shots.
But I still hate it.
Not consciously, of course, and not being a BS either. That was something I never wanted. But the amount of distance between us was what we both wanted, at least in some senses.
After fighting it for a long time, I've come to accept what all the experts say: that the amount of intimacy that exists in a relationship is there because it is what both partners feel comfortable with at heart, even if one or both may decry it out loud.
In my case, I came from a family where I was neglected for the most part and abused when I was noticed at all. And at the same time, everybody smiled and acted like we were the greatest family in the world. Including me. I actually blocked the reality of my childhood from my mind for years and treated my mother's cruelty and my dad's passivity as though they were charming eccentricities instead of the horrible experiences they had been.
So, I guess it isn't surprising that having my wants and needs ignored felt like the way it should be. Children really do learn what they live, and I learned that I should be used and neglected but not admit it. I picked a husband that gave me that -- he smiled and acted like we were a great couple and he a great husband, but he had a six year affair that he was moving towards before we had even been married a year. He was not connected to me, not bonded, not ever. He never had been bonded to anyone, including his parents, and he had no desire to be. So he did with me what he had always done with his parents -- smiled, charmed, deceived and kept his walls high and impenetrable.
While I claimed to want emotional intimacy, I didn't do what I needed to get it. I just complained about it. And I accept now that it was because it wasn't what I really wanted at heart. In my deepest being, true intimacy scared the crap out of me as much as it did out of him. We subconsciously recognized that in each other, of that I am absolutely sure.
And, if truth be told, I see now that I didn't want to have a husband that I had to spend lots of time tending to because I wanted the freedom to do what I wanted to do. I wanted to be able to spend lots of time at a job and with friends and colleagues outside of work and it was my marriage that ended up getting the short end of the stick. Even though I put lots of effort into the logistics of our life -- our home etc -- I didn't put lots of time into our marriage relationship, and if the truth be told I didn't want to do that and didn't realize I had to.
For those of you struggling to figure out why you remained in an unfulfilling marriage and didn't stand up for yourselves, I think this is a piece that begs to be looked at.
Now, I am in no way taking responsibility for anything he did, not his cruelty or his gaslighting or his lying or betrayal. But I did have to realize that I had some blocks to intimacy, too, and I needed to find them and deal with them if we were going to have a different kind of marriage. And it was not an easy fix, believe me. It was some of the hardest, scariest work I did in IC. And it is ongoing.
And, if truth be told, I see now that I didn't want to have a husband that I had to spend lots of time tending to because I wanted the freedom to do what I wanted to do.
BT, you are right. My WH and I have come to the conclusion that we first connected as sex addicts (we were work colleagues) so no intimacy really developed from the start. We also developed some bad communication habits from the start. The dance went like this:
I ask for what I need
He blasts me for needing (I call his scorpion tail)
I convince myself I don't really have the need and don't ask again for a really long time.
Totally co-dependent behavior, I know. This all started early in our relationship. I should have cut and run but I married the guy. Just goes to show where my self-esteem was at the time. Over time, I just stopped asking for any kind of emotional relationship with him and looked to girlfriends for emotional support and intimacy.
Eventually, like you BT, WH and I grew apart. We had plenty to talk about as long as we worked for the same employer but when that ended, we lost the only thing we had in common. He is a workaholic, so that was his entire life and I was no longer a part of it.
I could relate to so much of what you said about being quite comfortable with a man who didn't need "tending to." Actually, I could relate to everything you said. I, too, had a rich full life of travel, building a business, and being active in my community.
My work in this relationship is around becoming willing to speak my truth to WH. It is terrifying but I slog through the fear and do it anyway. I'm no longer afraid of his scorpion tail because I am now officially in data collection mode. I'm collecting data to see if he can be the kind of husband I want. If he can't, I will leave.
As for the revenge affair, I'm not going to do it. Like many BSs, I'm fantasizing about ways to stick the knife in and twist it hard. But I would never do it. I couldn't stay sober/abstinent if I did and truth be told, I would much rather live a life of dignity and grace and a revenge affair is not exactly dignified or graceful (although it is sort of fun to think about).
If I get nothing else through all this, I suspect I'll get myself back. Wherever she went.