A few observations:
1) Your H is most likely still in "the fog". Even though it has been 4 months, for some WS it takes up to a year to fully emerge from the fog and admit (at a very deep level) to themselves what they did and who that makes them as a person. Typically, at this stage they either want to just move on or sweep it under the rug as "a mistake". This CANNOT be done. If this is the path that is followed it will very likely happen again. Your H has some serious issues and they need to be addressed. If I were you, his seeking IC would be a condition of reconciliation. His wild abandonment into pretty raucous sexual behavior (group sex, multiple partners) tells of a deeper issue (does he have foo issues, etc). He needs to understand what is broken in him and fix it before you can trust him again.
it was about sex & her receiving her attention that she so needed.
Bingo!!!! He gave you a major cluse here. It wasn't her that needed the attention. His ego was getting a major stroking from his which points to self-esteem issues. He needs to get into IC yesterday!
Keep posting and we will keep trying to help. Sorry I was gone for a while but I am solo with the kids and they don't understand my fascination with SI.
And I don’t CARE that he felt I was doing it all and he was the just the provider of the funds – I was doing everything else. Everything.
I gave him the time to do what he wanted (rugby, golf, chilling in front of the tv, staying away for work, whatever) b/c he was the bread winner. It was his reward. And what does he do with it? Fucks someone else. Well, thank you buddy.
If it makes you feel any better...I did "everything" too. In addition, while he was in his two LTAs, I was make 5X as much income as he was....really. I was providing him the the lifestyle and taking care of the kids while he was out for "business". He was at a couple of start-ups that required a lot of client visits. But there was a whole lot more going on and I didn't know it.
Interestingly, the affairs stopped soon after the birth of our third and my retirement. I think he felt more in control being the primary "breadwinner" and he didn't need their ego boost any more.
It doesn't matter how many times they tell us that they never stopped loving us, the truth is that you don't fuck another woman and LOVE your wife. It just isn't possible to convince me of that.
I've accepted that this might be true. After all the C'ing all the books. He didn't love himself, therefore, he couldn't have loved me anyway. He THOUGHT he did, but he never really did. I think these guys come into the relationship convincing themselves they're in love because we love them.
he says- due to the boundaries being down, his interest & excitment in this "new" lifestyle he didn't resist at all and they had sex that night.
My H's rationale was the same... he had nothing to lose, he'd already been cheating on me, so whether it was one or 50 it didn't matter, he was already a condemned man. If she hadn't picked up on his vulnerability to it, had never called him again to "chat", he would never have seen her again. He was "happy" with is financial arrangement with the prostitutes. If she hadn't entered the picture, I have no doubt the infidelity would have stopped a lot sooner or I would have found out sooner. But with no receipts, no missing money, no missing time (OW lived 5 minutes away... he would see her on WAWA runs and tell me he ran into someone he knew and talked a while) there was not much chance other than the "no sex" thing to pick up on. But he'd already blamed that on me, so I already "knew" why we weren't having sex.
WN28, my H took at least 2 years to defog (without the help of a Dday or any counseling). Then 2 years after that, he proved he was still foggy about the "romance" because she died and he fell apart. THAT's how I found out. Then he went through another foggy period because he had convinced himself that the affairs were all my fault. He had to figure out that they weren't. Here he was being magnanimous giving up his girlfriend for his wife, the whole "I owe it to her" speech to the GF. so how the hell was I supposed to know I was supposed to feel "grateful"????
I don't know what's causing the current issues. He could have something on the side now for all I know.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I wonder if my H is not still in a fog as to all that he did. He says he's sorry and all the right things but that feeling, that truly angry at himself and upset about what he did has not really happened. He has never once brought it up on his own, always in response to me. I wish I knew how to defog him.
He THOUGHT he did, but he never really did. I think these guys come into the relationship convincing themselves they're in love because we love them.
So Lost- My WH may still be in the fog for sure- he NEVER brings up the A to me...actually just 30 mins ago he said, I've been thinking...and I was all excited to hear SOMETHING....but it was unrelated to the A... I told him I had been hoping he had been thinking about the A.
I guess the NC situation wasn't clear in my story- He told her on the phone there would be no more contact because we would be trying to R and when I made the steps to talk to her....based on those discussions she had a question for WH and that was how contact was intitated. They had 2 short conversations and that was the end of it....I think anwyays. Can't always be sure, eh? The only hurtful thing about those is that he was totally in the fog and I hadn't found this site yet to learn a TON so he pretty much confirmed his feelings towards her and expressed how hurt he was at what they had created. He does now see it as a "false love" and using her for sex for his selfish needs but still....she was left with his soft confirmations.
D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA
"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".
didn’t he actually love himself more than me? He was more concerned about himself?
No UK, it was about covering for himself, covering his shame and bad deeds. He didn't love himself, or you'd be posting in the narcissist forum too. Did he put himself ahead of you and your children, of course, out of selfishness, not because he loved himself. Then there's the shame of being selfish on top of it... and don't any of you think otherwise... they know all along the damage they're causing... why do you think they're secret? Why so many means to throw us off the scent... because THEY stink.
This is why I believe so many WS trade down with their APs.
The shame comes from having to tell me. He didn't feel guilt while he was doing it, only after. He was trying out that road untrod. It was the effort of all the secrecy while trying to maintain their respective M's that fuelled the intensity which, in the end, made it burn out. If they had been free agents, it would have been very different.
And I don't mean "traded down" in terms of necessarily looks, social status, brains. Look at this woman....she couldn't move on from a college "romance". They were both living their "glory days" because they didn't seen anything better in their life. Yes, he did miss the fact that he had a wonderful wife and family. What was BT's quote from that thread... we become inconsequential. Not because we ARE, but because that's the way THEY feel. A mirror reflection of who they truly were... that's what we were. She got to be the mirror of what he was desperate for... external validation like when he was a young stud.
My H did the same thing. His OW was POS, wasn't fit to lick my boots, but neither was he at the time. All he saw in my eyes was that he was a failure. I never told him that, he felt it. He recaptured his youth too because she was an old HS crush.
BOTH of them were dead inside and I'm sorry, that has to count in the "traded down" calculations.
I have been relegated down the pecking order (in terms of your love and attention) and felt that I was propping up the table. Last in line. And I have been. And for most of the first quarter of 2002 that’s where I have been. I’m old and wise enough to accept that these situations arise, and to learn to cope with that feeling of being emotionally relegated that accompanies them. Right now you have a lot on your plate and, quite understandably, you’re expressing yourself in this way. [DS3] is currently draining you emotionally, and there’s not a lot left for me. So, my reaction is to build up interests outside of you directly, by getting out of the way, by throwing myself into the job (how I wish!) or golf, or almost anything else that helps me to deal with the sense of being undervalued, underappreciated.
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 8:01 AM, August 14th (Thursday)]
This is from his original bit: “I love you. It’s been ages since I’ve said it. .......... You are a great wife, a wonderful mother and the best friend that this man can ever wish to have. You are patient (with me) to the point of saintliness. You have an innate understanding of the requirements of our family for its successful functioning. And you work damned hard at it as well. My own contribution is more modest, but that’s a product of my working life, the relative strengths and weaknesses that we each have, and the fact that you have sacrificed far more of yourself to make our family work than I have ever made or (if I’m being honest, and everything in this letter is based on honesty) would consider making.
If I kept on saying to you how much I appreciated what you do as standard, the mundane, the trite, the trivia, the run of the mill activities, believe me, you would puke at the apparent insincerity of what I said, and of how often I said it. The trouble is that I don’t say it often enough. Striking a balance is the hardest thing to do. I’ll keep on trying, but the reality is that you will continue to do so much for this family that goes either unnoticed or unappreciated or both.
Like the bit about the letter being based on “honesty”???? Ha-fucking-ha. He was already shagging her.
And then I read about John Edwards and the theories behind successful men having affairs. I always knew that my H, doing the type of work he does, being attractive and witty, charming and intelligent, attentive and polite, reasonably “successful” careerwise and financially solvent. A good package for some other woman steal. I understood that. But I thought he would be decent enough to tell me if he wasn’t happy, if he was seeking another relationship, if he wanted out. But he never did. And the illusion has been shattered. He is not a decent man at all. He is not a caring husband and father b/c he couldn’t give a shit about me or us. And now he wants back in?
In the spring of 2002, DS3 was 13/14 and looking 16+. He was drinking and getting drunk, smoking cigarettes and weed and having full sex. We went to all the local shops and pubs with his photo asking them not to serve him. When FWH was a child, he was the worry to his parents and they saw me as a stabilizing influence, he seemed to calm down after he met me. Coincidence? Probably. Yet he couldn’t see, or maybe it was too obvious, that DS3 is very much his father’s child.
And I don’t think I can be bothered much more with all these whys and wherefores about his affair or the detailed analysis of affairs in the news. They’re all shallow low life. My H destroyed me, wantonly and recklessly threw me off a cliff. I did love him. I was desperate for us to survive those first few months, I was willing to try anything to understand him and what he had done. Now I just see him as a selfish bastard.
And all I want is for my wonderful DS1&2 to come home and to hear DS1 say “Alright Mother Goose” and DS2 to say “loveyoumum”. I have DS3&4 here, but I miss them so much. I will take the credit for the way they have all turned out. Well adjusted, confident, popular, friendly, easy-going, kind and considerate. That is down to me.
Oh Jeez. I’m on such a downturn and hating myself for this pity party. “Do you love me?” How dare he even think about asking. Gonna take the dog out for a long walk.
And I don’t think I can be bothered much more with all these whys and wherefores about his affair
Cool. That is exactly the point that we all need to get to before we can stop just surviving and learn to thrive.
Next up, focusing for real on yourself and deciding what you want the next thirty years of your life to look like.
Do they have LESS empathy for not chosing to stop and being able to continue so long without any reality hitting them?
Anyone want to diagnose our LTA W's?
But he was gone for five years. He says two and a half, but I think it was until that Feb, which was min four and a half. She was nothing to do with the rest of his life. And lives 70-80 miles away. No connections. Nothing apart from his past. She was in a box inside his head. He would access the box, deal with it and put it back. At our first MC he said when he was with her, we were “in the margin”, when he came home, she was “in the margin”. IOW, “the box”. She would text him and he would react like batting away a fly. So he says. She would up the ante by saying she would email or text or call me. all those “silent” calls!!! Was I stupid or what. But what angers me is the thought that his oldest BF knew. He was conducting an A at that time too. OW knows him and she spoke to him! Shameless fuckwits.
This is what I know of WH's childhood- He was raised by his parents who divorced when he was 18 but they were unhappy for years as she stayed in the marriage "for the kids". She soon outed herself as homosexual and there was some sexual exploration at that time with WH's mom/dad/and other partners. (WH mistakenly found some pics as proof) WH & I were just talking about this part last night: His dad raised them very authoritarian- taught to not show emotion, work hard, given little praise. His brother was treated more harshly than WH because WH would follow the rules and do the work that was asked. WH's dad was controlling of his mom and I'm sure showed no affection towards her. As a child in school WH was picked on and was very shy and secluded. He got into sports later in by the end of high school was much more out of his shell. WH & I met the summer after high school and I was his first relationship ever. He attributes a lot of reasons that he started the A based on curiosity and sexual interest. We always struggled with the frequency of our sex- WH was always interested in more & I struggled partly due to the lack of attention/affection although there were other issues.
The other one thing that stands out is WH witnessed his 7 year old sister be killed. WH was taking her to the mailbox to check the mail when she was hit by a car as he watched. Even though he says he doesn't take responsibility I am sure he must to some degree- as well as all the grief, anger, etc. that would result. He believes he grieved her death properly while I do not. I don't think he ever talked to anyone about it so.....
That's him in a nutshell. Day to day he is a wonderful man. He works hard, helps me with the kids & caring inside and out for our home. He doesn't drink....he just lies, cheats, and manipulates instead....
Thanks for listening again!
My WH doesn't use the box analogy but instead uses the term "separate". He says when I was with OW everything was "separate", when I was with you- that aspect was "separate", when we were all together it was......you guessed it, "separate". That's the compartmentalizing speaking. I HATE the thought of him having sex with her while his brain is free & clear of crap yet when having sex with me he was thinking of her & his guilt. I go from being pained by sex thoughts to their emotional connection, infatuation, the betrayal from her becoming my best friend & all the time together, feeling overwhelmed at how screwed up he is, that there is nothing left to go on, .....I could keep on going on & on for hours I think.