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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH, So relieved for you. I had a feeling that his reaction was more emotional and more of a "bluff".... where you go from here is your choice. Weepy hit the nail on the head- for your H I think it is fear of failing and also not being used to feeling "out of control." But please make sure that he does some things to ease the children's worry after they saw that meltdown.

Try to have a WONDERFUL vacation. A new start here to create wonderful memories to balance out the negative ones.

Hugs,
HB
P.S. I got married in Scotland- I love it- so beautiful!


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 11:42 AM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


((LH))

A million hugs. I'm so sorry about all this.

Having been the one to give him the benefit of the doubt on his conversation with EvilSister, I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent here.

HE CANNOT GET AWAY WITH THIS SHIT. Sorry for the yelling, but he just can't. I fully agree with letting him go on the trip and trying to right things with the kids, but what he did--putting them in the middle--is so totally unacceptable, it's just not on.

I think it's time to stop letting the shots be called by what he wants. What do you need from him to consider staying in a marriage with someone who would cap off the last two years of hell by doing what he just did? I know it's beyond hard, but if I were in your shoes, that's what I'd be figuring out and I'd be letting him know it in non-negotiable terms.

I've met you. I know for a fact that you're a beautiful, smart, capable, compassionate, thoughtful woman and a fabulous mother. You and your children deserve better than this.

I hope the vacation is healing.

((more hugs))


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My goodness, what a carry on Mr LostH. I hope he has left his foul mood behind and packed a few smiles and good grace for the week. I’m sure LH will have a good time with her kids in spite of Mr LH. I’ve texted with her and she seems better. Altho I have to say that he seemed to want everyone to be thinking it was their fault and to beg him to go, that he is a great person and all that. So, once again, it was all about Mr LH. So wrong to do that to the kids. Selfish and self centred apology of a man. Chin up, girl! Sod him! But that’s bad news on your mum. Hope they can get her home.

My weekend wasn’t so good either. FWH and I went to a match and before and after the game we were in the reserved bar. There was a woman who, while she wasn’t a dead spit for OW was enough of a reminder for me to want to have her removed. I didn’t mention it, but I know FWH had a good look (triggered, maybe?) and if I had said anything, it would have been “nothing like her”. And this knowledge, this final realization, this cannot-be-ignored fact that he didn’t love me for all those years is pushing me further down into a depressive state. Why did it take 29yrs to think that, perhaps, I wasn’t so bad after all? Why the fuck did he marry me in the first place if he still held her in his heart? Why didn’t he leave when he met her again instead of this ridiculous cake eating and fence sitting? Where is the man I thought I married? Jeez. What a waste.

I could not think of one thing that made me think that staying made any sense for me. Worst of all, there was no one I could express this to since my kids were home for the weekend and I hate to put them in the middle so my thoughts just kept turning over and over in my mind until I was wishing that my H would die so that I didn't have to deal with this pain anymore. Isn't that awful?

No. I have thought that way too, or that I could just die. Then there would be an end to it instead of a living hell. And I have my boys in the middle too, but without them having any idea as to what’s been going off these past two yrs. DS2 phoned today so excited and upbeat and enthusiastic about everything, just everything, and I think “how could I have denied him that experience”, b/c I would have done if he had known. He would not have gone. That would have broken me up even more.

And yep, the infidelity thing in the news. I hate it all too. It makes me so angry. I want to throw the lot of them into hell.

They’ve been playing Good Riddance Time of Your Life on the radio.

Another turning point, a fork stuck in the road
Time grabs you by the wrist, directs you where to go
So make the best of this test, and don't ask why
It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time

It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right.
I hope you had the time of your life.

So take the photographs, and still frames in your mind
Hang it on a shelf in good health and good time
Tattoos of memories and dead skin on trial
For what it's worth it was worth all the while

It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right.
I hope you had the time of your life.

Now that is one HUGE trigger every time it comes on. “I hope you had the time of your life.” Well you did. Now fuck off.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So glad LH got off with her little ones. Was thinking of her as i went to sleep last night. sigh

And this knowledge, this final realization, this cannot-be-ignored fact that he didn’t love me for all those years is pushing me further down into a depressive state. Why did it take 29yrs to think that, perhaps, I wasn’t so bad after all?


Me too, UK, Me too. (((UK))))


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And this knowledge, this final realization, this cannot-be-ignored fact that he didn’t love me for all those years is pushing me further down into a depressive state.

UKG - This is exactly where I was this weekend. I was so overwhelmed with this thought that I sat outside for hours letting the tears flow. Every time my H came out to find out what was going on, I just kept telling him to leave me alone. I couldn't stand to have him there trying to comfort me. Is there any comfort for us when we finally acknowledge this fact? I guess the only comfort is in how serious they are in trying to right the wrong they have done. More importantly though, it's coming to the realization that they were so fucked up and had no idea about what true love was all about and now that they have come so close to losing us, they finally see our value and the love they do feel that somehow got undervalued while they were off satisfying their pathetic egos.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:54 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess the only comfort is in how serious they are in trying to right the wrong they have done. More importantly though, it's coming to the realization that they were so fucked up and had no idea about what true love was all about and now that they have come so close to losing us, they finally see our value and the love they do feel that somehow got undervalued while they were off satisfying their pathetic egos.

I think it is deeper than this. Each of our Hs had plenty of opportunity to leave but they never did. Even in the deepest fog of the affair, they kept coming back. Not that this is a consolation prize but it speaks to the fact that they *knew* deep down, below all the brokenedness that they wanted to be with us.

And, we have to remember, the affairs were not about us. It was about them. What they needed. Whether it was affirmation, ego, escape from failure, they did not risk any of that with these OW because they were in control. With us, they were not in control.

I know now that my Hs foo issues taught him not only how not to love but how to make sure you hurt the one that loves you. I know now, with conviction, that he wanted to love me but that by marrying me he felt trapped. He never made the choice to actively love me until a few weeks ago. How sad now to see his love shining out from his eyes and I feel nothing.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Great post by oldtimer in general that speaks to this very thing. My favorite line:

men who feel like nothing see their families as impoverished extensions of their own nothingness


So sad and so much time wasted.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
acreswild
♂ Member
Member # 19371
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right.
I hope you had the time of your life.

Now that is one HUGE trigger every time it comes on. “I hope you had the time of your life.” Well you did. Now fuck off.

gotta love green day to sum it all up


BS-Me-59
WW- Her-59
Married 36 years
PA/EA/?A...depends on definition....
She finally admitted an old 3-4 year affair ( over 25 years ago) followed by a very sporadic on-again off-again 8 year PA followed by lengthy EA that would likely still be

Posts: 409 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 9:24 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - sent to H...he agrees.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:34 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the affairs were not about us. It was about them. What they needed. Whether it was affirmation, ego, escape from failure, they did not risk any of that with these OW because they were in control. With us, they were not in control.

I agree 100% with this statement. It's funny how the dynamics of our relationship changed over the years. Initially, I was so awed by him, handsome, successful, funny, generous, affectionate. When we started our family and I was overwhelmed with the responsibility of their care because he always had something more important to do rather than spend time with the family or help with the children, I realized that I was on my own and became very independent. We are forced to do it all (with the exception of bringing home the paycheck in my case) and we do it well. Now, if they contribute, great, if not no problem - we can handle it. It was then that I think my H started to resent me yet he was the one who forced this strong independence on me. I didn't need him to be my companion, my confidante, my parental partner anymore. I was quite capable of handling things on my own. I made a life for myself that didn't have to include him and figured this was better than always fighting to get him to be part of our family. And he felt left out. He can not see to this day how he was the one who set this in motion. I never wanted it to be this way but I got tired of the fight and did what had to be done for myself and my children.
So he felt unneeded, unloved and undervalued. Well who the fuck set it up to be this way? His ego was wounded by my lack of neediness and so he moved onto the OW. Talk about neediness, she wins 1000 fold.
So the very independence he was so eager to encourage in me became his excuse to find someone who needed him. Someone to make him feel appreciated and needed. As I said to our MC several times, I was never going to win.
So in terms of the control issue, it's true. I was in control of my life and didn't turn to him for support or, god forbid, direction and affirmation.
She, on the other hand, gave him the reigns to her life and her soul and he fucked her up worse than me I think.
Whatever he wanted, she couldn't give him enough of and the independence that I thought would make our M stronger became the wedge that drove us apart while her total and complete dependence on him was the aphrodisiac that kept him locked in the cycle of destruction that almost ended our M.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:32 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, noted oldtimer’s post and will read later. But your quote rings true. WH had nothing good to say about his family at that time. So I became like FNF ……..

FNF. Your last post. All of it. 100% me too. Abso-fucking-lutely. And that’s what really pisses me off.

How sad now to see his love shining out from his eyes and I feel nothing.

Last night FWH was out with bf, whose first m broke up due to brief A and is now in his second marital crisis due to all sorts of stupid ego issues (again). Anyway they went out for a beer. H comes in, looks at me on the computer (facebook for DS2’s photos and videos >>sigh<<) and says “Do you love me?” S’cuse me? Where did that come from? He asked at least a dozen times and I wouldn’t answer. He put his arms round me and asked me again. And again. What could I say? I did love him completely, without boundaries and forever. He threw that in the trash along with everything else I valued. I wasn’t going to say ILY if I didn’t feel it. Maybe I should have said that I’ll say it when I have forgiven him. And I can’t forgive him right now.

Out with DS4 for school clothes. Groan.

Hope LH is doing ok. Have a good day tribe. Check in later.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 4:34 AM, August 13th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You all are just simply wonderful. So insightful. I read some of these posts and think...now how in the world did they know that about my H? LOL B/c you have been there and done that and apparently they are not all that different from one another.

UKGirl. I think of that song in such a different way. I feel like it's about how life is so unpredictable and unsure...your H could even have an A some day (go figure)...but to make the best of it, to try to hold on to the good stuff and get through it so that you can have the time of your life for yourself, make a good life for yourself despite all the obstacles and unexpected things.

Having a rough couple weeks here. I think about her and him all the time and I hate that. H is just not understanding and although he won't admit it, I can see him losing patience. Everything happened with LH and I just thought, Oh God, what would I do if my H left or said he was leaving. I went in to that desperate panic feeling and that scared me. I really need to shake myself out of this mode.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, it took the adoration of the crowds and the compliments of complete strangers, to make him feel unique. Why not his family? Because men who feel like nothing see their families as impoverished extensions of their own nothingness. They requite external validation to become a somebody.

This and the lines above it that say the men look at their wives as losers because they've attached themselves to such a loser.. really speak to me.

Of course when I asked my H directly "do you think I'm an idiot for staying or DID you think it while I was staying when you were being such an ass, that I was a fool?" Of course he said no.

BUT he would also say that he didn't feel loved or appreciated despite everything I did for him. He said he would feel guilt and self-loathing when I would give him a special Christmas gift or do something spontaneously wonderful, like he wasn't worthy. And then he would lash out because he didn't "like" feeling like a louse. So OW made him feel better because she never judged. He was never a wonderful friend or playmate or father with her. All he had to do was show up and she was flattered and humbled. LIke my H's famous words when I would ask him whether he was cheating on me "I come home every night, isn't that enough?" Like I should have been licking his boots when he made his appearance.

He has a question to answer for me when the kids are not around... his answer will determine whether or not I continue to stay in this M. I love him, he loves me, but the day to day grind has worn us both down. I think we've been kicking a dead horse for the last 3 years.

I'm reading a new book "How Can I Reach You?" The author basically paints a picture of our M from page 1. And it's hard looking at those pages and thinking "this is me, and that is him." And for the last year I have been trying to change that dance thinking if I make it a safe place for him, he'll open up. Controlling my anger, not shaming him (which is almost impossible) and he sees this as a reprieve from working on us. Yea! no more relationship crap. When I asked him last night what's going on, because he doesn't seem "here" any more... he says he's "working on it". And when pressed for what "IT" is... he won't go there because the kids are home.

FnF: Everything you wrote in your post above is our story too.

When we started our family and I was overwhelmed with the responsibility of their care because he always had something more important to do rather than spend time with the family or help with the children, I realized that I was on my own and became very independent. We are forced to do it all (with the exception of bringing home the paycheck in my case) and we do it well. Now, if they contribute, great, if not no problem - we can handle it. It was then that I think my H started to resent me yet he was the one who forced this strong independence on me. I didn't need him to be my companion, my confidante, my parental partner anymore. I was quite capable of handling things on my own. I made a life for myself that didn't have to include him and figured this was better than always fighting to get him to be part of our family. And he felt left out. He can not see to this day how he was the one who set this in motion. I never wanted it to be this way but I got tired of the fight and did what had to be done for myself and my children.
So he felt unneeded, unloved and undervalued. Well who the fuck set it up to be this way? His ego was wounded by my lack of neediness and so he moved onto the OW. Talk about neediness, she wins 1000 fold.

He always encouraged me to reach for more responsibility at work, go back to college, but undermined it all by not being there to support the household while I did all this, so I did more. I was "working" 18 hour days while he gave lip service to supporting me and admiring me. All the while resenting the fact (by appearances) that I could do it.

So the very independence he was so eager to encourage in me became his excuse to find someone who needed him. Someone to make him feel appreciated and needed.

That says it all. Even the pros "needed" him (his money). I didn't even need that. I was essentially supporting our family for the first 5 years of his affairs. By the time year 6, 7 etc rolled around and he decided to get a "real" job, he knew he could never catch up to my career track and he resented that even more because as we all know, they can't see THEY are the problem.

I've been thinking long and hard about my M. And I truly think we're done, just going through the motions. And it's draining both of us. He can't give me what I want, he has no more left to give and neither do I. I'm willing to try another round of MC, but with someone competent this time. But if he doesn't agree... I'll understand and we'll just work on making the split as amicable as possible.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy - Your frustration is palpable. I don't know what else you could be doing to reach your H. He is so blocked. You have read so many books, gone to endless MC'ing session, IC sessions, he has gone to endless IC sessions, you have the support of his family from what you've said and still he keeps up those walls that prevent you from achieving your goal of a R'd M. I don't get him. I never have.
I don't want to sound discouraging. I just want to let you know that I completely get why you are where you are now. I can hear your resignation and feel your withdrawal. I don't know, maybe this will reach him. He has to feel this too.
Anyway that I can help, please let me know if only to be your sounding board and I'm there.
(((Weepy)))
“Do you love me?” S’cuse me? Where did that come from? He asked at least a dozen times and I wouldn’t answer. He put his arms round me and asked me again. And again. What could I say?

UKG - I think I would have turned that question right back to him. What our H's don't understand is that we struggle every day with the knowledge that for many years we were not loved. It doesn't matter how many times they tell us that they never stopped loving us, the truth is that you don't fuck another woman and LOVE your wife. It just isn't possible to convince me of that. As I tell my H all the time when he says he always loved me, Love is not just a word or a feeling, it's an action - a caring, a sacrificing and a genuine concern for the well being of the person you claim to love. Our well-being was never considered during their A years because if it had been they would have ended it much, much sooner.
So, back to your H's question to you, I would push to get him to acknowledge that you have come to the realization that you were unloved during those years and now you are in a self-protective mode where convincing him of your love is NOT your main priority. Our main priority at this point is trying to be convinced by them that they now do love us in a way that is meaningful and makes it possible for us to even want to move forward in our M.
I hope my posts today are not discouraging to anyone. I just think we all, both BS and WS need to be realistic about the fallout of years of infidelity. And from some of the posts lately, I feel that H's just don't get the extent of damage that they have done to our M's.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF -

I hope my posts today are not discouraging to anyone.

Not at all!! They are spoken from the heart and they are the truth. The one thing I have learned through all of this is that the truth is the only way. The truth will come out. Burying the truth will just lead to rot. If the truth is that someone in the marriage is not working for the marriage, then the marriage is over. No amount of "work" on our behalf will salvage an unsalvageable situation - we have all learned that already. If our spouses do not commit to the relationship wholely then it is not a relationship but cohabitation.

It doesn't matter how many times they tell us that they never stopped loving us, the truth is that you don't fuck another woman and LOVE your wife. It just isn't possible to convince me of that.

FWIW, my H has admitted this to me. He was trying to get something for himself...something that was missing. He is in the process of learning what that was...what was broken in him. He has also admitted that the affairs were a way to hurt me. He felt inferior. He was competing with me and I didn't know it. One aspect of the affairs was a way to knife me. Nope...not love at all. I think it is incredibly healthy for both of us to know this. To know he is now committed and has told me that he will be here to protect me, he is "on my team" and he will never intentionally hurt me again. Now I have to learn to believe him again.

now you are in a self-protective mode where convincing him of your love is NOT your main priority. Our main priority at this point is trying to be convinced by them that they now do love us in a way that is meaningful and makes it possible for us to even want to move forward in our M.

Right on sister!!! This is it exactly.

Weepy, I hear your frustration and your sadness in the state of your marriage. Like FNF, I am hear to listen, to be a shoulder to cry on, to lend a hand in any way I can. Reading your posts over the last few months, you have come so far. It is frustrating that your H won't budge an inch.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 11:02 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am feeling so hopeless lately....I don't know how to do this. It seems impossible- that the uphill battle is just too much for me or WH. The thought of fighting this for years and the likely possibility that we won't be able to make it.... I'm sad....how do you guys do it?

2.5 year LTA, double/triple betrayal- OW lived in our home final year of their A


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((WhatNow)))) your dday is so recent and that kind of betrayal will create a complete devestation of your soul. You are probably still in PTSD. Are you in IC? The short answer to how we do it is one day at a time, one step at a time. My dday antiversary is coming up this weekend. I remember last year like it was yesterday. I was barely able to function. Some days I couldn't get out of bed. I was emotional wreck crying constantly. The Tribe here just kept telling me to do it one day at a time. Each minute just breathe and move forward. It works. Tell us more about your profile so we can try to help.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Whatnow28
♀ Member
Member # 19345
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you hurtshirley- you brought tears to my eyes!

Okay...my story- I'll try to condense it as much as possible


At WH's work just over 3 years ago now another MW started talking to him about cheating, sex, etc. He told her early on that he would never do that, etc. but over months time they started having a PA (almost entirely at work- she came to our house a few times for sex) which lasted 6 months. Our oldest son was 4 months old at the start of this A. This OW was not really a friend of mine because we didn't get along (wonder why?) but she and her H came to our poker games regularly, we'd buy gifts for each other kids, etc. She wasn't a friend but I knew her & her family well. WH says this A was mostly PA- he didn't really like her personality either and he was looking for the sex out of it although he enjoyed the lifestyle as I had been his first relationship & sexual relationship....and he has what I would say is a greater than average interest in sex.

During the above A, while working at the same house (group home) another unmarried female came onto WH while she was drunk and as he says- due to the boundaries being down, his interest & excitment in this "new" lifestyle he didn't resist at all and they had sex that night. The next weekend, the 3 of them were working together along with another single male and they had group sex. The single male was also an employee and friend of mine & WH's (also came to poker). It soon came out to WH that OW#1 had been having sex with all the male employees of this group home at the same time...so she wasn't just pushing my WH. (OW#1 went on to have a 2 year A with this single male so WH always confided in his friend who was also having an A for the 2 years of his) From there the OW#1 relationship ended and he had a 2 year A with OW#2. Over the span of the 2 years OW became my friend as we'd all go out to lunches together, she started watching my children, and then a year into their A she moved into our home. I was pregnant at the time- she was involved with every family event/outing, every ultrasound she was there, she was present for the birth of my child and helped me daily during maternity leave....all the while having a PA/EA with WH. (We were still having bi-weekly poker too and OW#1 and other single guy always came too) They had sex while I was home at least 3 times and would most often have sex on the 2 days they watched the children together (they were no longer working together) She lived in our house just over a year when I found pictures on her camera of the 2 of them together.

Since then....she moved out within hours- She talked to me a few times at length- for hours for me to "confirm" the stories. The whole truth didn't come out until a week later and that was provided from OW. I am almost 100% sure there hasn't been any contact between them- they did speak briefly twice after she spoke to me- probably 4 months ago now. He has been transparent although that isn't too helpful for me since it all happened either at work or in my home. We are in MC- Our MC recommended IC for him although he has been dragging his feet but did look up counselors in the area the other day.... I am not in IC, because MC hasn't recommended it and I guess I'll just wait & see for now. WH wants to be here for me & the kids. He says "I always loved you" there was never plans for them to be together- it was about sex & her receiving her attention that she so needed. Although at the end they were telling one another that they loved each other. There was only 1 gift, 1 letter over the 2 years. They said they barely kissed, had very little affection and sex wasn't "good" or passionate. She scaled the passion a 2 out of 10.

We have been up & down over the past 5 months. We're trying to work on effective healthy communication since we expect a long term battle of painful conversations and don't want to build more resntment due to saying hurtful things. Lately I'm feeling like WH still isn't expressing his emotions and although is helpful in that he's listening and talking to me....but I rarely hear him accept the pain he has caused- ie: I'm so sorry because of x,y, or z. Or...I'm sorry x, y, or z is so devestating for you.... He says he's sorry but it feels like something is missing- it's not as "connected" as I would think it should be or as often. I'm not sure how much of that is a typical non-emotional male and how much is "missing" from him.

Anyways....that was not at all condensed but I guess I needed to get it out. Thank you for "listening" and helping anyway possible.

[This message edited by Whatnow28 at 12:14 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)]


ME: BW, 30 H: WH, 30 2 little boys

D-day 3/4/08 Whole "truth" from OW 3/12/08
Ow#1, 6 months PA
Ow#2, 2 years PA & EA

"It takes 3 seconds to say "I love you", 3 hours to explain it, & a lifetime to prove it".


Posts: 517 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: NE Coast
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi again, WN28. Haven’t you visited our corner before?

I had much the same business of letting down OW gently by my WH. He carried on texting with her, telling her everything would be ok, she whined about wanting to stay friends (huh???) b/c he was her best friend and aawwwlll of that crap. FWH said that he didn’t want her stepping into my life, so it was his way of pushing her away without a scene. Of course, the texting levels went back to the same as pre-DDay and I found out about it. So then, unable to cope with his NC, she turned up on myt doorstep. WN28, it took one whole year (and more) to get rid of her. Partly my fault for wanting answers, I admit, but she tried to worm her way into my life just to have some sort of connection with him. Truly pathetic.

These are still early days for you. (Bet you've heard that before!) I have very little memory of the back end of 2006, only by reading my journal can I see where I was – which was on the rocks below the cliff that FWH had thrown me off. I was still trembling every morning when I came downstairs (deeply disturbing), losing more weight, crying, having my hair fall out, unable to think about anything other than how was I going to get through the day. My main problem (well, one of many!) is that FWH had “dealt with it” after DDay. He just wanted MOW gone. I guess that’s the same for you. If you have been reading our recent posts (and I think I might have a vent coming up) then you know that the LTA, with all the double life for so long, is a difficult thing to deal with. But if you are posting here, then you do have hope and enough threads in your m to pull together a new life. It won’t be the same, but it can be done.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:31 PM, August 13th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope you don’t mind, but I want to come back to the not loving BS and us holding it all together. I’m looking for a letter that FWH wrote back it 2001. There’s stuff there that “justifies” the A. Meanwhile, back to last night and the “do you love me” question.

I think I would have turned that question right back to him.

I did. He just said “don’t answer a question with a question” and he just will not have it that he didn’t love me. He keeps saying that was what he held on to. So why fuck another woman for five years then if he loved me? He doesn’t know. Well, I fucking well do! He was looking for something that wasn’t there. Yeh, right. Fuckwit. As to our “wellbeing” during the A’s, we were all just getting on with it – that thing called life, parenthood, child, friend, etc, etc. That thing they professed to not be coping with. So, folks, what should I say? I do love him, but it’s fleeting, like snowflakes in the hand. I think “I love you” and then it just melts away b/c I think “you bastard”. Will that go away? I need to say ILY when it’s constant. Kwim?

Okay. I reckon this was written in April 2002. 7mths or so after he first met MOW/ex-gf and 6mths after shagging her again. It’s from a “love letter” he wrote and gave to me early Dec 2001 (right at the very beginning of the A and when the split of his BF’s m erupted in glorious Technicolor), but this is one of a few “additions” that I never saw until after DDay.
"You were right last night. At [popular local bistro]. When you said that I had stopped making an effort on a number of fronts. Not clearing up an untidy room, leaving the dustbin liner in the kitchen for days without a thought for clearing it away, rarely touching the garden, playing too much golf. Yep, I can’t disagree with you on any count. However, there are changes taking place in our separate and combined lives all the time. Priorities change. For certain periods of time I have been relegated down the pecking order (in terms of your love and attention) and felt that I was propping up the table. Last in line. And I have been. And for most of the first quarter of 2002 that’s where I have been. I’m old and wise enough to accept that these situations arise, and to learn to cope with that feeling of being emotionally relegated that accompanies them. Right now you have a lot on your plate and, quite understandably, you’re expressing yourself in this way. [DS3] is currently draining you emotionally, and there’s not a lot left for me. So, my reaction is to build up interests outside of you directly, by getting out of the way, by throwing myself into the job (how I wish!) or golf, or almost anything else that helps me to deal with the sense of being undervalued, underappreciated.
It’ll pass. You will return to your former self. I will need to readjust to your change in behaviour. Meanwhile, I will make the effort and address the issues referred to above. Therefore every room will be scrupulously tidied, every bin liner whisked away in a nano-second, and a minimum of 5 minutes a day spent in the garden. But the golf continues. And, if there is a major job change, that will be guaranteed to bring a whole new set of challenges for us. We shall see."

When I read this some time after DDay, I wrote pure vitriol between the lines and words. I told him it was NOT about being relegated down the pecking order. He had already started on his affair with someone who was making him feel the centre of her world. He turned it into a “ My wife doesn’t love me syndrome” How dare he say that even to himself? When he wrote this, you had already gone and probably looking for a reason to leave. This was his “reason” to withdraw from our marriage and go to her. Of course, he couldn’t understand that what he needed to do was to give me the attention he was giving that sad overly grateful bitch. Instead, he just took me for granted. So, my reaction is to build up interests outside of you And that line said it all “I’m having an affair!!” Of course, he didn’t change. He got worse as the years went by.

And I don’t CARE that he felt I was doing it all and he was the just the provider of the funds – I was doing everything else. Everything. I gave him the time to do what he wanted (rugby, golf, chilling in front of the tv, staying away for work, whatever) b/c he was the bread winner. It was his reward. And what does he do with it? Fucks someone else. Well, thank you buddy.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:33 PM, August 13th (Wednesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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