I think you are certainly within your rights to ask your husband not to discuss you with your mother. And I would definitely do that. That's a weird little backdoor relationship that needs to end like yesterday.
I want you to try something, ok?
Pretend you are on a train in a subway, and its going fairly fast. You can see the stops as you look out the window, but not enough to really look at them. Thats ok cos you know that on your return journey, you will get off at each and every stop, and explore them at leisure. Just acknowledge the stops out loud, then let them pass by.
Those stops are your concerns [H, his issues, the kids, H's issues, possible dealbreakers, H's issues, your hair, H's issues ], and you are heading to your MC/IC session.
If you are like me, when one big thing goes quite bad, all the other little and meduim bothers jump in too. So this might help you just keep your wits about until your next session.
You cant really deal with anything now, as you and H seem to have reached an impasse. Take deep breathes; tap (I know I go on about this, but it does help some); know really really know that no matter, what you WILL be ok. Crying does help release some of the pent up energies, but then you need some action, even quiet actions.
When I am in a quandry, many here have pointed out to me, to find my quiet place in my head, use prayers or meditation, or whatever works for you.
You know you are right.You are standing up for yourself. Your H has done many things right thus far. Maybe he needs a asskick to get him over this bump. Hopefully your MC can do that.
Till then, just let it be. You have both said enough. Focus on the kids, and if you can, be extra nice to you. Go on!
We are holding you close this week.
Isn't there someone now who can give that to you when your Mom is being so difficult?
I feel pathetic saying this, but no.
I am that person for my sisters, well i used to be for the youngest, but as her relationship with her H grew closer, she needed me less, and that couldnt make me happier. She has found some of the peace and contentment we all need in their relationship.
My 2nd sister...I am afraid that one day I will disappoint her. I think she thinks I have all the answers. She calls me when she is lost somewhere; when her toddler is sick and she doesnt know what medicine to give him; when her H is being an asshat and she needs someone to vent to.
Unfort she is not very good at receiving emotional outbursts. She cant handle peoples feelings, and feel v uncomfortable. And she, like the youngest, are v protective of my mum. They have taken over my role in that way, and I know once she tells them about this incident,(if she hasnt already) they are going to be so pissed off with me. I am dreading that already. I should know better. "Do you want her to die? Do you know she has cancer, and might drop dead tomorrow? How many times do we have to tell you NOT to talk to mum about upsetting stuff?"
BT, H's relationship with my mum.
That goes way back. I wouldnt even know what to say to him as he would think I am being ridiculous, and OTT as usual.
We are having this big family dinner tonight with his aunty/uncle which my mum is hosting. She informed him off it, and told him I can bring a dish if I want to. I obviously need to know what her menu is, to compliment it, and asked him to find out. I later realised how stupid that is, using H as a messenger, and called her direct. I was polite and friendly. She was guarded. When I told H what I had done, he was upset. I had told him to call, he was supposed to do that, I should have told him first before calling, and his reaction made me nervous. I would have thought he would be pleased that I am handling this instead of adding to his load, but he wasnt. So dont know what to make of that.
Today is his 41st bday. Yesterday, was his last smoke day. He promised the kids that he wont smoke anymore. He has done this before,and broken it.
I truly hope he keeps it, for his and their sakes. He needs a big victory for himself. They need to see that no matter how difficult it is, that you can do something if you really wanted to. Also, more impt, that their dad CAN keep his promises. That is one of their main gripes with him...that he doesnt keep his promises.
Fnf, you did say I could wax on, so I am taking advantage as you can see.
Thank you all for your kindnesses.
One of the things that was most difficult for me to give up in this whole process of growth was my longtime habit of treating people as though they were the people I wanted them to be, rather than the people that they are.
I wanted a Mom like Shirley's, and I always treated my mother like that even when she proved time after time that she wasn't that kind of supportive person. I built expectations of her as a mother that she was unable or unwilling to fulfill. I kept expecting her to act the way I wanted her to and she never did. I realized finally that by treating her as a person she wasn't, I was hurting both of us. I was constantly disappointed and I was giving her ammunition to hurt me repeatedly, which wasn't doing her own karma any good, and which subjected her to much anger from me.
When I really looked at her and saw the kind of person she actually was, I started to treat her differently. I did not confide in her anymore and I did not look for support or encouragement or even attention. I am still helpful to her and polite, and probably am a better daughter as I no longer carry an enormous amount of anger towards her for not being what I want her to be. But I no longer seek any emotional sustenance from her.
In dropping that desire for emotional help from her, I freed myself and I freed her. The dream of a loving, kind and nurting mother just wasn't to be realized in my life. It was a hard dream to let go of, but I found that trying to hold onto it was hurting me much worse than facing the reality that it wasn't to be.
Thank you so much for those words also. Really, really helped. I totally sat and visualized and realized, I cannot stop this train yet. It needs o get to MC. I need to let it take me there and then deal with this all.
I think we are both just trying to ignore the big purple elephant in the room. He came home last night and sat up in bed with me holding hands and watching tv and talking...just like everything was normal. So I let it be as normal as I could. Fake it for now, right? Or at least try to let some of the anger go and the wanting to fix it all and just let things be.
I am actually going to try to get a quiet moment today and meditate and pray and just let myself be with me.
I reminded him how it's not an issue for me to not socialize with other guys without him but somehow he is furious that he can't do it with other women and he's the one who had the affair. Amazing.
I honestly think he needs his meds adjusted. We discussed it briefly at the last visit and he didn't feel he did. He has an appointment with the med adjusting doc in September, so I am hoping my little comments will add up by then. He did say at the last session that he would go up but he only has one more dose he can go up until he is at the max for that drug.
I have to call and get a babysitter for the MC session today for Wednesday. I dread calling her, I don't know why. I think b/c she is the only one who knows and I don't want to be asked how things are going. You know? I am sorry I had to tell her and I would rather no one knew IRL.
I totally subscribe to the theory about us repeating our relationship with our parents in our marital choices. My H does also. It's the basis of Imago therapy and other relationship therapies, too. My own IC believes that we unconsciously find in out mates an amalgam of the most problematic traits of both our parents. A kind of superfund of dysfunction if you will. I would say that was definitely true in my case.
And yes, I think it is true that most of us will go through life hoping for emotional sustenance from someone else, even if we never get it.
I wonder which parent I represent for him? Prob aspects of both of them.
I was doing fine with my mum till I started work. We werent v close, just friendly and cordial, nothing v deep, although I continued to offer support when she griped about my dad. I think I have let my barriers down recently (as things have been going so good for me/us ). I need to remind myself that the barriers are there to protect me.
H has been asking me whats wrong, but I know he doesnt really want to know. He just wants a quick fix problem with a quick fix solution. Today, my mum called again and before he handed me the phone, she must have said something cos he laughed and said "You check". For some reason, that made me so angry. After the call, I asked him what she had said,]. App she told him that she had a favour to ask me, and what did he think her chances were, and they both laughed as he said he didnt know,(suggesting who would know!), to check with me.
This infuriated me. Them two laughing at me. The tears just popped into my eyes.
Later on, when he asked again, whats wrong, I told him briefly,and said that I felt so sad and so utterly alone, and this is what he said:
"You dont have your mother. You dont have your sisters. You dont have me. You ARE alone. That is something you have to get used to."
And he was about to launch into his sililoquy about how he had always been alone, and didnt have/need anybody etc etc (yes, I have heard this many many times), and I stopped him.No more.
Anyway, the evening went well. We all put on a good show for the visitors. No one would ever think that we had any issues.
I will let go of my fantasy of my mum. I am still letting go of my fantasy of my H.
Fnf, my sisters wont be there for me in that way. They both can not understand why I would stay with H after everything. He reminds them too much of my dad.If I left H, I know that they would offer every kind of support, but since I have decided to stay, then I should shut up and put up. And I wouldnt DARE say anything bad about my mum.As I said, they have become v protective over her.
You know what H told me earlier on when I was crying. HE said that I would get over this, that I always go through these "phases", and come out on top again.HE doesnt get how upset I am, how hurt and alone I feel, how this is not just another phase, or my hormones or whatever.
But I cant really talk to him, nor do I want to. Right now, I dont much trust him with my feelings. That would be laying myself open to more pain.
SoLost,yes, fake it. Or rather, like you said,let go of the need to have this fixed right away. Trust that it will resolve itself in time, and that you can still breathe with this pushed to one corner.
All the best.
thanks tribe for holding my hand.
Good night all.
[This message edited by Lost Heart at 5:49 PM, August 3rd (Sunday)]
You ARE alone.
Well, yes, Mr. Lost, for most of us that's been true. We didn't know it, because you told us something different. You promised to be there for us and with us, and true to us, and we believed you.
We didn't have great role models of true connected relationships in our youth to judge our own against. We believed that the love we held for our spouses would somehow automatically create the kind of marriage we wanted. Most of us had the naive belief that marriage should be easy if it was the right one. We didn't know a lot of the things you should know before you enter a relationship that is supposed to last a lifetime.
But just because we have not had a real connection so far does not mean we cannot have one in the future if we are willing to do the work to learn how to create and sustain one.
You can continue to go through life not needing anyone if you like, but understand that is your choice. You can choose something different if you desire. I believe you know that's true because I would bet you've seen that in others. Maybe a married couple, maybe a pair of siblings, maybe friends. People who are always there for one another and wouldn't have it any other way. You can have that too if you want it.
I am so sorry to read of all the hurt being experienced and very glad to see the support offered by wise members. Reading the advice helps me to cope with my situation even though the circumstances may differ I can empathize and identify with so much of what is written.
For me, the weeks leading to and since our anniversary in June have been a roller coaster of a magnitude not experienced up til now. I haven't posted a lot of it, not knowing what to share or how to begin. Three weeks spent apart from my FWH did not have the effect I'd hoped for. We spoke on the phone often while I was away and although he told me he was working on the letter he promised me, he didn't have one waiting for me on my return home. He decided that a bedroom reno and house reorganization was more important. My feelings and expression of my needs in order to be able to R have fallen on deaf ears! Conflict avoidance continued. He says he got distracted by the painting and organizing. More disappointment for me. Why do I even hope for resolution of the issues?
While I was away I applied for the passport needed to make an airplane trip out of the country (an island paradise) at the end of July with FWH and had it sent to our home address. Expecting an honest and revealing exchange on my return, I'd hoped we would be in a better place in our reconciliation before the trip. No letter! Then he had a business trip out of town which resulted in a meltdown on my part when I couldn't reach him, followed by a promise that he would write me every day when he got home.
I should know by now not to get my hopes up. It was 3 days before I received a brief letter promising more to follow.
His job and family occasions kept us busy that week. Again broken promises. No more letters. Still I kept to myself a lot, giving him time to spend on the letter. On the last day before our flight, as I did laundry and packed, I saw him writing. We had a nice dinner. The evening passed and he hadn't given me a letter. I asked him if he had one for me. He said 'yes' but didn't know if he should give it to me. I now wish he'd lied and told me it wasn't finished. I didn't want to think of it waiting for me during the trip so I read it. He had so long to reveal the truth and his timing made it worse. We traveled separately due to my trip reservations being made later than his so I had many hours to read and re-read his letter. I pretty much collapsed sobbing in his arms when he arrived at the luggage carousel. We talked some and I fell asleep in his arms, more from fatigue than relief. We played tourist for 2 days until our son arrived. Meeting him was the reason for our trip. We spent 2 days together... then I flew home and FWH is sailing home with our son. He'll be gone for the next 10 days during which I don't expect to hear from him much. Internet and phone access is very limited.
I plan to re-read and respond to his last letter. But don't know if I'll give it to him. Maybe it will become part of my journal. In some ways I'm back at square one. For me the gas lighting has occurred since Dday, not during the A. I didn't suspect a thing for 3 yrs, was totally blindsided by discovery of the chat logs on our home PC and archives on his laptop. NC has been broken several times... as recently as 2 months ago due their ongoing business dealings. Somehow I have to summon up the strength to deal with the new info and the ripple effect it will have. Time... that 4-letter word again... will tell.
As recently as 2 months ago, and you didnt know!
That stupid man.
Every line you wrote rang true. I read it out to H and asked him what he thought. He said its very different for a couple (like us)who have so many issues between us. Sigh.
And that he didnt think much about this kind of stuff anyway.
You can continue to go through life not needing anyone if you like, but understand that is your choice. You can choose something different if you desire.
Have a good day Tribe!
You dont have me. You ARE alone
My own IC believes that we unconsciously find in out mates an amalgam of the most problematic traits of both our parents. A kind of superfund of dysfunction if you will. I would say that was definitely true in my case.
Just had to quickly respond. I can't be on here today because I'm going to work shortly. Yay!
But both my ICs have harped on this one... my most difficult relationship was with my mother. I had barely any relationship with my father and I guess I wanted to "create" one with my H. My father was the adulterer... talk about repeating the dysfunction....
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Had an intensive IC session today, and she pulled out a few gentle 2x4s.
Here they are :
* My H has proved himself unreliable, selfish, immature,unstable,a source of pain, abuse and neglect.
* My mum has proved herself to be selfish, unprotective, a source of pain, and what my IC insists were abuse and neglect.
They are also my 2 supposed main supporters, and alleged sources of love and affection.
Last week, I was in a downward spiral and a few events made the load overwhelming. I turn to the 2 people who are known sources of abuse for love and support. These two then joined forces to beat me up, sharing the beating stick...and I let them.
She said I was like a little girl, needing love, running from one abuser to another. As each abuser (in the guise of protector)beat me, I believed what they were saying, things they have said over the years, and which I use myself to beat myself up.
3 people beating one person up.
Now I cant change those 2 people, but I can change me. She said that when H told me that i was alone, I should have rather have said, "Yes, I am alone. Thats ok. I will get stronger, and I will get over this by myself. It would have been nice to have someone to rely on, but i dont at this time in my life. I will oneday. So now, thanks to you pointing it out, I know that although I am alone, I will remember that I WILL be ok ('cos realistically speaking, how is this any different from before. THIS time I know it).
IC thinks that mum's and H's behavior this weekend were very very cruel and hurtful. Almost abusive. And that they have done this before many times, For some reason, they use beating me, as a vent to their frustrations (which may not even be related to me), and I buy into this dysfunction with my reactions to this.
She said that the day will come, when no matter how much they laugh at me; no matter what they say; I will be able to stand up for myself, break their pattern, and not get drawn in. She said that she can see it happening already,(by me going over H's head to speak to my mum, and thus refusing to reinforce their portrayal of me being the difficult wife/daughter.)
I tell you,Tribe, I was pretty bummed up after the session.
If I cant rely on my H or mum for support and love, then...
I just feel so weary.
She said I have been fighting this battle for a long long time. And theres no saying where it will end.
Stay in the dance,and fight them, or step aside and fight for me.
I told her that i want to take my kiddos and run. I dont want these people in my life anymore. And to think that I have a long ways to go before I become that strong person she envisages.
Weepy, hope you have a great first day!
Shirley, how are you?
Where are you?
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 4:27 PM, August 4th (Monday)]
You are such a dear friend. Your kids are very fortunate.
You know, I am pretty surprised by me. You would think I would be a whole lot of mess, but I am not.
H is away tonight, has taken his aunt and uncle away to visit other relatives. My mum commented yesterday that she so hopes that he gets to spend time with his uncle, as he needs that role model (having been deprived as a child); and that the more time he spends with his family, the better off he will be. right.
He has been playing with her this whole weekend (they have been having, what I called to my IC, little"case conferences" about me, as they both need the other to reinforce that the dysfunction is in me, and not them. They have done this for years, and my Ic asked me why have I never put a stop to it. I guess it didnt occur to me that i could. And the end result would be everyone agreeing how difficult LH is, how moody and over sensitive and such high maintenance, she is. And that would feed into my views of myself already.
My mum thinks that he likes and respects her. He doesnt. Never will.And that actually makes me sad for her.
He is boring of the game already, and asked me before he left, "Whats up with your mum?She seems to be obsessing about me.". ya think? jeez.
But its not about her or him. Its about their own dysfunctions that make them turn towards each other, and against me.
Really ugly, isnt it?
And these people love me!
Would hate to see what they do to people they hate.
Thanks Fnf. I know I am being flip, but I cant be anything else right now. Too much to take in.
I Am going to be OK.
I can not tell you enough how much i appreciated and so desp needed yours, and BT's and Shirley's and evryone else's helping hands this last week.
Lots and lots of love and good wishes from me to you all.
Off to read my babies their bedtime stories. Its way late, but its their hols after all.
Good night Mary Jane.
(You know I wasnt as big a fan of The Waltons, as I was of Little House on the Prairie. I wanted to be Laura so much. )
[This message edited by Lost Heart at 4:57 PM, August 4th (Monday)]
Hold your ground. Don't let them force you into the old, destructive mode of behavior
Going to try my best, Fnf. My kids are SO not going to be having this conversation oneday!!!
HAve a good day you.