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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I dare say I am proud of my H for being a man of integrity now

Well done, HB and Mr HB!
I love the David and Goliath real life stories too.

You all can kick my sorry butt when I get all pathetic and whiny and scared about money, ok?

Not from me. There is absolutely nothing wrong in being scared about money.And its not just the money is it?its everything thats tied with it too...security, future, stability...so have no fear, HB, I doubt anyone of us would do some kickbutting.

Wishing you and H reams and reams of Tribal strength.

***

LH - looks like you took a day off

Alas, you were wrong, FnF.

I had an awful awful 2 days and I just couldnt bring myself to post.
Doesnt it just clean take your breath away when you hit a low after being on a relative high for awhile.

I tried not to make my low A-related and not to bring all that stuff in.

It seems like I have gone full circle in a way. Before when I got upset, I would either shut up and swallow and thereby add to the poison well of resentment, or make an appt to speak to H rationally,(if I tear or got emotional, he would end the conversation)but then nothing would get resolved really, just band aids till i got over my "mood".

Then after dday, I was so confrontational...really OTT..I wouldnt even let a "look" go away without a fight.
And you all know how long that lasted.

But recently, I seem to be withdrawing again, and it upsets H...and makes him say things like, 2Ok, lets play your game", or he pushes. Yeah, Mr ConflictAvoider has become Mr Confrontational.

But what he has difficulty understanding is that I shut down because I want to work through what upset me first. I dont want it to be a knee jerk reaction. I dont want to be this angry confrontational in your face person I have been being. I try to identify what upset me, what negative belief got triggered (IC's suggestion), and then work through whether my reaction was warranted or not. I am not only doing this for me; I am doing it for him too..I can see how depressed he is, how low he is feeling and frankly, I dont want to add to his plate.

Lightbulb moment: I dont feel the need to punish him so much anymore. I feel sorry for him. I really do. and I think how bloody awful it must be to have done everything that he has done.

Back to me:
So this process of mine is working..to an extent. The good thing about being confrontational before, was that I got to vent... alot.
Now it seems to be building up in me...which suggests that I am not working through my stuff as well as I hoped.

So yesterday and today, I felt like I was stifling meltdowns (if thats possible).Can you picture me driving with one hand, and tapping furiously with the other, whilst trying not to tear so that my eye makeup doesnt leave black streaks?

Ah well...I am still here.

***

Maybe though, as you suggested, LH, if I make the changes in my attitude, I just might start to see some positive changes in the way we communicate with each other now.

FNF,
It was actually BT, ROBT and OTC who steered me down that route. They told me to focus on my changes, and hopefully it will serve as a lighthouse for H.

I dont know exactly what/how/who instigated his "lightbulb" moment, and it doesnt matter...he is trying hard to be a better H and F, and right now, I couldnt ask for more than that.

He did say to me that he wants this not just for us, but for himself, because only then would it be longlasting.

I am suspicious (Hey i wouldnt be me if I wasnt right? ), and anxious and all sorts of worried.
I feel my walls weakening and that scares the **** out of me. I felt stronger when he was being Old H and I was being angry..at least then I knew where we both stood.

Now its all new territory.And I will watch and observe and be careful, and try to enjoy this.

***
((((((FNF)))))

Big hugs Fnf, as you work through your boulders.

****
((((UKG))))

I have spent quite a bit of time on the Friendsreunited website (yes, the one where FWH found OW) with some correspondence that has come winging my way. I think it’s time to change my profile there. Maybe. Now that I’m less resentful

Please take care, Ukg.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I’ve heard of the 12 Steps before and read that they can be used in other circumstances where one needs to find a path from a state of lost control to one of calm and in control. If you have spirituality of some kind, I would think it is a way of true guidance, but even if you’re not, there are still aspects that everyone can use in their lives to find a way to happiness and fulfilment.

BT, that said, does your H feel the need to tell everyone about his failing, or those who have been involved either knowingly or otherwise? My H told no one by his own volition, it’s been me and my big mouth and then he has had the business of dealing with friends and family who otherwise would never have known. Maybe he’s extremely ashamed and embarrassed. I’m not sure. But he is a very private man, even though his outward persona is the opposite.
*****

HB. Oh my. It does sound seriously scary. I hope it’s all factual and no one gets uppity and nasty. I for one would not like to go through all that we did with the Germans for two years. But we were lucky in that we did not incur too much in the way of legal costs.
*****

UKgirl - sounds like the two of us are going through the same tough times right now. Thank heavens for everyone here. Hope you're doing better today.

Thanks for your concerns, FNF. Not tough times. Just removed and looking at H objectively. Today …..

Okay. So now I’m home, you can give me the 2x4’s and ask me why I am doing this to myself. I had my car in for service today and took the courtesy car down to the village where OW lives, parked it up 100yds from her house by the canal and bridge and walked the tow path to the pub. Where I didn’t get lunch b/c they forgot and asked me twice what filling I wanted, so I said forget it. I can see the attraction of him staying at hers and taking a stroll to the pub for a meal or a beer. There was only one bench (she referred to “our bench”) up that way.

But, I didn’t get upset and I didn’t cry and I didn’t get all angry. I think I feel sad more than anything. But one good thing might have come from me being out for the day; FWH says he has done the timeline and reread parts of the Katie Coston After the Affair ebook. And he’s getting dinner ready. And, with regard to waiting on the job contract/offer to come through (snail mail, for goodness sake, but then they are French ….) he said that nothing was more important to him than his marriage. I guess he’s done some thinking.

And I did get all dressed up as if it was a “Friday”.

But I am a little concerned that I seem to be walking along the edges of the lethal plain of flatness again. I’ve been there for a couple of weeks. Don’t feel much at all.


ETA Hi LostH. Didn't see we'd run to another page! Read you later.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 2:15 PM, July 8th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK,

This is the first person my H has volunteered to tell. He was the only mutual friend who was pulled into the affair by my H.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost H,

I had to explain that to my H, too.

I asked him for his patience. Told him I had to sit with my feelings before I could figure out where the hell they were coming from and what they meant.

It was hard for him at first. But he is getting better at it, and I am getting better at asking for more time rather than just withdrawing and leaving him to wonder.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:15 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all, sorry for my absence but I was at the beach for an extended long weekend. The weather couldn't have been better - only one day of rain which allowed us to go see Kung Fu Panda

I will go back and get caught up but wanted to check in. Interesting MC today....we realized that the source of my strength that is helping me survive this devastation (strict sense of “right and wrong”, “it all comes out in the wash”, do your best and good things will happen, etc) is the same thing that is blocking me moving forward. He did wrong…he should be punished. They did wrong….they should be punished. No one is paying the price that I am without a choice in the matter. Therefore, ironically, my strength is my weakness. I sounds like a line out of Kung Fu Panda.

Anyway, I am officially stuck. I can’t move forward and do not want to move back. I am, again, waking up first thing with thoughts of “them” in my head. I have a couple of issues going on that let me know that my immune system is low so I need to get more sleep but that is an issue too. Meanwhile, my H is frustrated (fuckem). He wants to help but there is nothing he can do. I told him today after MC that it is like he cut off both of my arms and legs and then stands there and asks what he can do to help them grow back.

Sorry for jumping back in with nothing but complaints….


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
lovegonewrong
♀ Member
Member # 17440
Default  Posted: 10:21 PM, July 8th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it's been a long long time since I last posted here, have been lurking mostly...

HurtShirley what you said has struck a cord in me that only the other day I realised myself that my strength is also my weakness. I am very strong in my beliefs so for me its a case of -

I always said this was a deal breaker cheat and your gone.
I also strongly believe in my marriage vows For better or worse, in sickness and in health.

According to FWH he was sick something broke in him. So if I am to stay with my vows then I need to work on this, however if I am true to my word I should go. I never say anything lightly without thinking through if I would indeed follow up. My answer is hell yes I would.

So I am damed if I stay and damed if I go!

I just hate this whole thing!!! I really would like to know why they get to go and test the waters for years to see if they can find someone better, have a lot of fun on the side. Get caught and say 'sorry' and come home to the good ol dependable wife!

It all just sucks, we are committed to our vows yet they have the fun and we still suffer. It just seems never ending...


Monty Python, "It isn't the despair. I can handle the despair. It's the hope that's killing me."


DDay #1: 04 March 07
DDay #2: 10 May 2007 revealed all (I hope)

profile has all the sordid details...


Posts: 124 | Registered: Dec 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 5:47 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm back guys and a lot to process. I have to tell you I didn't miss him one bit the whole 3 days. Didn't worry about what he was doing, who he was talking to, whether he was eating, sleeping or anything. It was a great relief.

BT - I'm reading your posts and realizing that my H too was just like that and in many ways still is. He's cynical and this whole mess has made it worse. He would tell me blatent lies and I'd believe him. Just believe him because he did the "hate liars, thieves, I would NEVER do that" kind of thing. I saw the white hot disgust he held for my father the WHOLE time he was doing the same thing.

SO he wonders why I look at him in wonder now sometimes... but this is MY problem, the not believing, because he's not lying now. Maybe for the most part, but he's still hiding. He told me early on that I deserved someone better and I told him he could be that person and he was trying, he really was. But I didn't believe him. And now he doesn't care.

I almost told his sister that i was thinking about leaving him to guage her reaction and the family's. But I didn't. They know we're not happy though.

Got a million things to do, so I'm going to dash for now.

Hang in ladies.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
up2me
♀ Member
Member # 10681
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

dependable wife...i hate that! that's who i am too. totally unappreciated as a woman more like the all purpose life facilitator.
ya wanna travel for a month or more for your job? go right ahead, you don't even have to ask if she minds because your dependable wife will take care of the house/kids/bills. ya wanna go joyriding?...no problem, don't even bother checking in since you have a dependable wife. she can handle lack of attention/affection so long as you come home to eat, sleep and get clean clothes. ya wanna have a secret life, no worries your real life will be fine your dependable wife will cover.
yeah struck a chord with me too.

Posts: 690 | Registered: May 2006 | From: ny
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 12:17 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT,

Maybe I need to reassure H better when I am. Thank you.

Btw,BT,I think its quite brave of your H to admit the LTA to his friend. Guess he feels that it is something that he has to do. Hope it goes well for him.

***
Welcome back Shirley!
[
quote]Anyway, I am officially stuck. I can’t move forward and do not want to move back[/quote].

Thats ok, Shirley. Lay with this for awhile. Dont fight it.

I have also/still stuggle with this. Its part of what my IC calls, me fighting me.

I remember the intensity of my wanting justice for all the hurt parties. It just didnt seem fair that these people (H and the OW)could mess around with people's lives and just get away with it.
Someone had to pay...and the only people I saw paying, were me and my kiddos.

I must admit though, Shirley, that much of that intensity has gone. I still feel it and think it, but now...I guess I am coming to terms with it.

Like someone once said here, their (OW and WS)greatest punishment is being them..and I am starting to believe that.

Dont fight it,Shirley.
This is just something you are going to have to grapple in your own time. ANd no, its not being stuck...you are actually, IMHO, moving, but just cant see it.

((((Shirley))))

****

((((Lovegonewrong))))

((((uptome))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Lost

I guess I keep wanting to feel okay so badly and I need to let this run its course. Today has been better as H is out of town. His presence seems to trigger me. He, as a person in theory (as in my H is in Houston on business) is okay with me. His actual face in the same room as me gets me thinking all the awful thoughts that I don't want to think - mind movies galore.

I did go back and reread several pages and so much wisdom was offered. BT I forwarded your post on your H to my H. It was him absolutely to a T. When he read it he said he couldn't believe it.

Weepy - glad you had a good time. Glad you had some time away from your H. The fact that you didn't miss him, enjoyed being away from him, does it tell you anything?

HB - I love the fact that your H is willing to take the risk to take the right path. That speaks volumes about his character. We all know that at the end of the day, our WS had a serious character flaw. To see evidence of true character must be very helpful.

FNF - I know that I personally will never completely trust my H again. I will always have an inner sanctum that he will not be allowed into. He was there once and he started an inferno that almost obliterated me. If we R, he will be allowed to enjoy my company and I will enjoy his, but he will never have me completely like he did before.

LH -

Lightbulb moment: I dont feel the need to punish him so much anymore. I feel sorry for him. I really do. and I think how bloody awful it must be to have done everything that he has done.

Okay...tell me how long this took because I want them to all suffer badly!!!

Really....do you know far out when you started to let the need for retribution go?

UKgirl - padded 2X4 here...there are places that I am required to drive by that I know "they" were there and it almost makes me sick every time. Some hotels, some parks, etc. Every time I trigger badly. You really have to stop putting yourself through this it just can't be good for you.

((((lovegonewrong))))
((((up2me))))

dependable wife

yep, that WAS me too. No fucking more. He does his own laundry. I don't remind him if he forgot something. He has to help a hell of a lot more around the house. I have completely changed the way our house works and if he doesn't like it he can just go to hell!!!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:16 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley,

I spent a lot of time looking for the shortcut out of this pain. I couldn't find one.

I do know that terrible yearning to be done with it, to feel like yourself again. What I found is that there wasn't any one action I could take, or one issue I could resolve that gave me serious relief. Rather it was a series of actions on a whole host of issues over a very long time.

Sorry, honey. My prediction is that when you resolve this "fairness" issue, another one will pop up to take its place. And if you think about it, that makes sense. Infidelity is a multi-headed monster. It is a betrayal on so many levels and a hit to so many aspects of our psyche that we have to attack it in waves.

No matter what happens to those other women -- or to your husband -- there will never be anything that balances out what was done to you. It is, always has been, and always will be unfair.

Shirley, you've got a ways to go to get through this stuff. There is a ton to resolve, and it's going to take a while. I know you're a very successful woman and I'm sure you are usually an incredibly quick study. This is one task that is not going to be done quickly, no matter how much we want it.

In terms of trusting my husband, I don't feel like I am trusting the same man who had the affair. That man is gone, thank god. My husband has to carry the burden of his actions, but I don't believe he is the same man anymore. Nevertheless, I keep my eyes and ears open in a way I didn't before.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:14 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT -

It is, always has been, and always will be unfair.

Yeah, I know and I just can't wrap my head around this. I know it sounds ridiculous but there is some part of me that wants the Karma Bus badly. I know that there are terrible people in this world doing terrible things and never caught. I know that there are innocent children brought into abject poverty and sickness. But, I never knew the unfairness would overtake me.

Interestingly, this is the same issue that has my mother at a standstill in dealing with him. She has the same beliefs in right and wrong, etc. (hmmmm, there's a shock since I am her daughter )

I recognize that I am rushing it but some days I just yearn to feel "normal". And, I know he does to. I think he is very frustrated with my "lack of progress". He feels like I am going backwards and I tell him that I am, at this point, just not going forward. He made the mistake of asking our MC if she had ever seen a situation as severe as ours and she had to say no.

I know he is remorseful. I know he loves me. I believe he would cut off his arm if it would help me but it won't. And he can't undo the past.

As far as trust, he could walk through the door tomorrow as the Dalai Lama and I wouldn't trust him the same again. He has lost the right to that deep inner part of my soul that I gave him before. Maybe I shouldn't have given it to him but I thought that was what love is..


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 8:40 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley, don't you dare let him rush you in any sense. He needs to take his frustration and file it. This takes the time it takes. Both of you need to give yourselves the gift of patience.

I like your mama. Maybe she can be our tribal yogi.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:09 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I will always have an inner sanctum that he will not be allowed into. He was there once and he started an inferno that almost obliterated me. If we R, he will be allowed to enjoy my company and I will enjoy his, but he will never have me completely like he did before.

This is what saddens me too - that we were offering something so pure, so genuine and so rare and they took it for granted. They never appreciated how much love was being offered and how beautiful that gift truly was. Now that we know what we know, we may never be able to offer that again and everyone loses. It is such a travesty.
I live in the hope that one day I can offer this to my H again and that he will be ready to accept and truly appreciate how rare and unique this level of commitment and love is. It seems at times that we will never allow ourselves to be in that position again to be so devastated but I think I would be devasted to think that I can never feel that way again, KWIM??? It was such a satisfying way to live, to be so full of love and appreciation. I felt that way before d-day.
So if we can be patient and wait and watch as our H's try to show us how they are changed men then just maybe we can start to let our love flow toward them again. I know I yearn for that day but I also try to prepare myself for a life without that level of devotion.
I think that's why I love to hear from BT about how far her H has come. It gives me so much hope. I have to have hope or I would be lost. I don't want a life of quiet resignation. That would be the ultimate punishment for me.
As to the trust issue, I honestly don't know that I will ever allow myself to fully trust my H again. But, thankfully, he's getting up in years so I'm hoping his age will give me some degree of security. Right now, that's the best I can hope for. So sad, as my kids like to say.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 9:23 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Both of you need to give yourselves the gift of patience.

BT - are YOU the Dalai Lama?

I have never had patience at all my entire life, seriously. Even my adorable daughters have learned to keep up with me. I swear I need to go to some hut in India for a month to learn to wait.

My mom, she could be the yogi for all woman kind. She has seen and lived through so much. But, in the end, she had a faithful and loving husband that would die for her. He is now in a nursing home and she spends all day, every day with him.

This is what saddens me too - that we were offering something so pure, so genuine and so rare and they took it for granted.

Yes, FNF, they did. And, I believe for me, that gift is only given once. We very well might "make it through" this, but he will never experience the blind light of my complete love again.

As far as them getting older and that as a security blanket...be careful. I read somewhere that the new population of STD patients is the over 70 viagra group who all assume that everyone else is clean.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, July 9th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as them getting older and that as a security blanket...be careful. I read somewhere that the new population of STD patients is the over 70 viagra group who all assume that everyone else is clean.

Eeewww! Now what could be worse than some 70 year old guy with a dripping weany? Yuck!!! This is an image I'll have to clear from my head before I go to bed. Thanks for that HS!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have nothing to say really, I just couldn't stand that prior image being the last word on the thread.

Can't tell you how many times I've gagged over it this morning.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 1:29 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT,
I couldn't agree more.
Well, they say seniors are the most sexually active these days. Hmm.....
HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh Shirley!!!
You are gonna have to take that image out of our heads.

Deep breath Tribe.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 2:40 PM, July 10th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To permanently erase all 70 year old drippy weenie mind movies please follow the following link to the top of page 2: Keep all arms and legs inside the cabin...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=243287&AP=21

I am no longer responsible for what may happen to your Hs later!!!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
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