That he had been absent from much of the parenting and that he, as much as he loves and respects our daughter, can take very little of the credit.
BT, the book I'm reading now talks about how one of the couple carries the emotionality for both and the other is the cool and logical one. How most of the time it's the woman who's the emotional one and the guy who's logical. How when the emotional one shows emotion, the logical one will withdraw (because he doesn't need to be there for this, it's not his job). The more emotional we get, the more they withdraw, the more we get emotional about their withdrawal and the more they withdraw. Someone has to break that cycle and it's usually the person who's actually invested in changing the relationship. It's about giving them room to actually have to feel the emotions. She gives an example about how the wife for years acted out the anger about how her H's parents treated him. When she started working on her feelings and her own relationship with is parents, she left room for her H to actually feel his own anger. Well, since my H doesn't have any problem expressing anger this particular one doesn't apply here. But I'm wondering how to back off and let him feel the others. Does my attitude convey to him (without words) that I feel he SHOULD be grateful and the more I tell him with my words (then) and attitude that he SHOULD, he less he will feel that and go to the logical side of "why should I be grateful when she does this or that". I don't know how to apply these principles. I get them, just don't know how or if I can.
I have stopped calling him at work, told him all I need is a call to tell me he's on his way home so I can start dinner. Has he called me more? Nope. He's been "released". I've backed off seeking affection from him, has he jumped in and filled the gap? Nope.
Does all this mean he's incapable of growth?
Typical morning argument today. There was no Equal in the canister, so he put Sweet & Low in my tea. He knows I don't use it. I've told him before, many times. So when he handed me my tea and told me he'd put "the pink stuff" in it because there was no "blue stuff" in the canister, I expressed disappointment (by sighing and going 'poo') and asked that he put sugar in it if there was no "blue stuff" available. He went off on how he didn't know where I kept it, that if I didn't want to use the "pink", I shouldn't leave it around. So because HE didn't look for the Equal, because he was lazy, it's my fault for keeping the other stuff around. I told him it was equivalent to me putting butter in his tea because I didn't have any milk in the house, after all they both are made from milk. "Not the same thing, butter isn't made with milk." Anyway, how is that not blaming me for his mistake?
fnf, I have found my H tends to go overboard on a lot of stuff if I'm not around. Like a kid who's been denied candy all his life suddenly coming face to face with a candy store. He's going to go overboard. He knows you don't like it, he knows he was inappropriate and I'm going to BET he felt out of control, but won't admit it. YOu know what to do... you point out the behavior and the obvious consequences and leave him to face them. Do not try to "mend" this relationship. But it's him who messed it up, let him clean it up.
I've got a situation that I'm working on here too. We changed insurers. Our old homeowners was paid and in order to get the refund, someone needs to contact our old insurance guy. I asked H to do it. If he doesn't, we lose $1000 of escrow and school taxes are due in August. So either our payment will go up, or we'll need to make an escrow deposit or he makes a call. But he doesn't want to because it's hard. Our old insurance guy was a friend and since he can't appear to be the "bad guy", we're going to lose money. I sit here disbelieving that he can't make this call. But I'm not going to. And I'm not going to pay for the shortfall either. So tonight I"ll lay out the consequences and ask him again to call his friend. I know he'll get angry and all "if you know how to do it better, then you do it." I have to remain calm and non-judgemental, and that's going to be my job. Maybe I should drink heavily at dinner....
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I shouldnít run him down, but he can be exasperating.
We talked a little. I don't know. I did sneak a look at receipts and it does match up. He went to 5 or 6different stores. Games for Wii (I got him one fr Father's Day) and he was trying to find me the one I wanted and went to several different stores, a book, book store GC, key lime pie, cards from Halmark, Webkinz from my daughter lol, another Wii game from a different store.
SO I gues it's th truth. It was still so intense and I don't hitnk he gets that. He doesn'tg et that even a good lie can just kill me.
We did have a good day yesterday . I just refused to have my bithday ruined.
I guessI have to move on. It seems to be the thruth. This busineess just sucks though.
((((Stillbreathing)))) I'm sorry you are here.
More later...hAVE TO GET SUITS ON THE KIDS AND GET TO THE POOL.
I LOVE THE BEACH!!!
I have missed a B-Day I think... Happy Belated Birthday So Lost.
And an Anniversary... LostH, sorry I missed this, and even more sorry that it wasn't what you needed or wanted. :(
The third dimension, and the one that is most meaningful, is behaving in a way that demonstrates your love. It means protecting the ones you love, treating them with respect and care. Giving of oneself, making sacrifices and literally treasuring the person and doing everything within reason to make sure that person has no doubt as to the extent of love and devotion you feel. In sociological terms it is referred to as mature love. Loving even through the difficult times. Having a depth of feeling and concern for another person that hurting them or ignoring their needs for your own selfish ones would not be possible. This is what I mourn. This is what I want and deserve now.
It is what we all want and deserve. My FWH is trying to give me that and I am thankful, as well as a little unbelieving that he is actually changing!!! Hoped he would, but loved him anyway. I am not sure why the change is happening, but I am glad.
How are you??
Welcome Still breathing. Sorry you are here.
Well... not much to say, other than I wish things were better for everyone. It shouldn't have to be this hard!! Everyone here is good. My son is busy with his house and should move in about 2 weeks or so... finally!! My H and I actually cut his grass and trimmed for him this past W/E. He has been working ALOT of overtime!! My daughter is taking summer school classes and they are very hard. Goog thing she isn't working this summer! But in about 3 more semesters she will be an early childhood teacher!!! I am proud of her and my son.
Going camping again this weekend. We will meet up with some friends that are going as well. My H had to pull some strings since he was scheduled to work this Sat., and actually did find someone to do it!! This would have NEVER happened in the past... NEVER! Work ALWAYS came first.. I'm thinking I might keep him!
Hope everyone has a good day. The weather here has been wonderful. I have been able to turn the AC off and have the windows open... I Luv the cool nites, the breezes, and even the sound of the crickets!!
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
When the emotions are a bit more stable, have a chat with him soon. About how even nice lies and secrets have no place in the M anymore; that you could do without the surprise and thrills, and would rather have the stability and transparency any day.And that no, it doesnt ruin anything by telling you.
Oh, and kudos to Mr SoLost.
And you said he never plans these things in advance!!
Glad it worker out well.
Donít be hard on him Ė he tried.
This morning he made me packed lunch for work, and he gave me a long hug and said "Sorry".
I am so easy...thats all it took to get me in a good mood.
Fnf, how are you doing?
If you do decide to go into IC (for you!!), it really helped me by interviewing a few first, and then choosing. Everyone sounds kosher on the phone, but its only when you meet them and see where they work and put that all together, that you can get a sense of them, KWIM?
I know when I was interviewing, I found a lady that I just hit off with, we were both chuckling every now and then. And I left there on a high. Then I met current IC, and she was firm and deep and tough, and I left there sad and drained but inspired. Of course I chose her! And I have never regretted it.
So good luck with that...if thats what you want.
I am curious though:
BT asked you if you think that what your H said about women was really how he felt.What do you think?
... I Luv the cool nites, the breezes, and even the sound of the crickets!!
With that image in mind, I bid you all good night.
Thanks my friends for holding me.
I am feeling much better today. I know we have to have a talk, but for now, I am ok.
OK. H is very obviously avoiding conflict again. I have been trying to get him to talk about our financials. He brought home paperwork for the medical benefits through his work, so I thought it would be a good opportunity to talk about everything and suggested it last night. He said he had to shower first, that he felt wiped out and he needed it to clear his head. So after dinner, after he sat around and watched a movie, he went up for his shower and promptly fell asleep.
I had explained to him that I have two job interviews today and when I mentioned that he asked if either of them paid $70K a year. When I said no, he asked why I was bothering to interview. The thing is, I want to talk to him about the possibility of taking a part time job instead of full time, at least for now. I have it all worked out financially.
I have IC tonight, so that kills tonight, MC tomorrow and 2 graduation parties on Saturday. Sunday our son comes home and H already said he has projects for the two of them.
Serious discussions always end badly around here with both of us wanting to have the last word. It doesn't matter how logical I present my stand, he'll take the opposite and I'll feel unheard and dismissed.
I'm going to tell MC Friday night already that it seems we'll get along just fine if only I'd do exactly what he says, everything his way, in his timeframe. That what I want holds no weight with him.
I was astonished that yesterday I finished stenciling the bathroom (I didn't tell him I was doing it) and he actually said it looked nice... no "but" on the end of the compliment either.
Well, I have to run for the day, shower and get to my first interview at 10. Neither job is exactly what I want, but both are money we don't have coming in right now.... who says I HAVE to keep the job if I take it, right?
Why cant you get a job in work that you are interested, though?
Are those jobs hard to come by, or theres not enough scope?Or ???
Hope everyone is keeping well today.
I heard Congress is going to vote today to extend unemployment benefits! Yea!
I was wondering if your MC ever had the two of you discuss an important issue in C'ing just to see how you interact. Our MC did this. He told us to sit facing each other and try to pretend that he was not in the room. He turned his seat away from us and told us to choose a topic, that he wanted to evaluate our communication skills (or lack thereof ). Then, after about 15 minutes he made some very interesting observations. If your C has not done this, this might just be the perfect topic to discuss since it seems to be a loaded one. What do you think?
Actually I did this the last time we were there. Told her we had an issue that was festering for 7 years and I wanted to get it over with. So she told us to do just what you said. When we were done, she spoke to H telling him that he was trying to control a situation and take no responsibility for it at the same time. We've been working on picking out kitchen tile until it became such a volatile issue, it was ignored. WEll, I want it done.
So she told him if he wants NOTHING to do with the choice, that if he truly doesn't care what I put up, then he gets no say. He set a budget, but has no say in the design. I picked out a tile I liked, H says because it's porcelain, he can't work with it. So I looked for a ceramic one and he doesn't like it because it's not a 4x4 tile and there will be too many cuts. So I still have no tile. And this was AFTER our MC session.
That's why I'm going to tell her that although we obviously need a lot of therapy, this therapy isn't working. He's not listening, we still can't communicate effectively, and apparently we just piss each other off all the time. So where do we go from here?
I picked out a tile I liked, H says because it's porcelain, he can't work with it. So I looked for a ceramic one and he doesn't like it because it's not a 4x4 tile and there will be too many cuts. So I still have no tile.
Well, that didn't work out as planned! Have you tried doing it in reverse. You get some say as to the color/design and then he picks out a tile that is "workable" that fits those specs? Just a thought....
FNF - OMG. The mother issue sounds enormous. If he was that callous toward her at the end and never speaks of her now, he is carrying around some serious baggage. At a minimum, it sounds like there might be some abandonment issues around her passing him off to go back to work. Those kinds of feelings can lead to fear of intimacy, anger, aggression towards women, etc. (Yes, this is what my H is spending a lot of time on with his IC ).
I am where you are with the IC for myself. We are still going to MC, he is still going to IC but I am taking a break. I think I sort of hit a plateau with my IC. She had done as much as she could and, quite frankly, I think at some level you guys are better!!! And you are certainly cheaper!!
I am back to my anger and pain phase again. Going through the whole "how could he do this" thing. I think it was brought on by 1) Father's day and 2) watching my wonderful daughter graduate from 8th grade and realizing how much of life has already passed and how he stole so much of it.
It's not too far away, but I don't know if H will go for me working only part time and then like 24/7 come spring
Weepy, what do you want to go for?
I am back to my anger and pain phase again
"how could he do this" thing
Unfort I havent found any clear and easy way out of that stage. I just let run its course.
As far as what I believe my H really feels about women, I do think he has deep-seated issues that he has never fully examined
Fnf, my IC discussed the very same today!
And of course, we can only make assumptions for he is not even looking there...yet.
But she thinks that H not only didnt learn how to love and be loved, he also learned very dysfunctional ways of dealing with women, which carried on with his relationship with OW#1. She used him and he allowed himself to be used. Whereas with OW#2, they both used each other.
And she thinks that when I gave him love so eagerly and without asking for much in return, he didnt know how to deal with that.
And so he had to make me the baddie to justify him still running after OW.
After all, he was getting everything he needed at home, so why was he still drawn to her? Instead of looking at the sickness in him, he attributed bad traits to me,which gave him excuses to do what he wanted.
Me becoming more and more accomodating must have driven him nuts! Until he started taking his very basic duties as a H and F and twisting them into me making demands on him. I think of the years that he griped about me being a bitch...and what was it that I wanted? More time with the family; eat supper with us at least 3 times a week, spend some worthwhile time with the kids not just watching TV, talk to me....all such basic things that he just refused to give us.
And now...now after ALL the damage that he has done,after he has done f**king around for 2 decades, NOW he wants to do all those things.
And I chose to let him in again.
Weepy, what do you want to go for?
Ah, the question I got from H when I got home from the second interview. After he got done spewing about how I should have left there with an offer, that a two-interview process is demeaning (he went through 3 before being hired at his job BTW -- guess another thing he "forgets" because he finds it shameful). Blah, blah.
So when I get home I told him the pay sucked, the hours sucked and the work sounded boring, but I'm sure I can get the job if I want it. That the part time job sounded more interesting, the pay was better but I wasn't sure I wanted it.
His reaction "you don't get to decide, you have to work full time so just accept that and take the job."
Well, you can imagine what my gut reaction was to that, right! But since I'm reading this book and I really, really want to change the dynamics of our relationship, I calmly told him that we didn't need me to work full time yet, that there was a severance to draw on, that he was being offered benefits, so we could drop the expensive COBRA and could draw on the severance to make up for how much was coming out of his check.. that way "I" would still be paying for the benefits as if I had a full time job. I showed him my Excel spreadsheet -- he dismissed all the figures on it as bogus and unrealistic. When I countered that, he started to attack me personally about I was old, my skills were worthless on the market, I'd be lucky to get a job waiting tables or at WAWA. (Now this is the guy who ALWAYS said I was smart, capable, organized). That I haven't used the 6 months I had off to accomplish anything, I didn't even cook any more, etc. I know from my reading that this is his gut reaction to change, his attempt to bring us back into our familiar dynamic where Weepy is the provider, nurturer, carrying the load so he can be the screwup, the dreamer, irresponsible.
Our life is about to change and he doesn't want it to. The conversation ended with him saying "Go, do what you want, I don't care, if we wind up losing the house it will be your fault."
But because I want his cooperation, his blessing, his support, I have to try again to get through to him. And take my chances that if I don't and he remains angry and bitter and resentful, then I stand the chance of him acting inappropriately... an affair, leaving me, being more abusive at home. The book says they come around if you're firm and dedicated to the change, but somehow I doubt it. So part of this "change" is me accepting that and hoping the fulfillment I get from doing something for ME outweighs and cancels out what he will do TO me.
When I countered that, he started to attack me personally about I was old, my skills were worthless on the market, I'd be lucky to get a job waiting tables or at WAWA
Sounds like a HUGE projection to me.
So part of this "change" is me accepting that and hoping the fulfillment I get from doing something for ME outweighs and cancels out what he will do TO me
The way I see it, Weepy, is that you did the martyr-everything-for-my-H-and-family-and-me-last role for years, and what did you get?
he remains angry and bitter and resentful, then I stand the chance of him acting inappropriately... an affair, leaving me, being more abusive at home
Now when you do something for you (and mind you, this is not even you being selfish; you are going to be contributing to the household still!), at least you wont end up as resentful if he does go on to act like an ass. JIMHO.
I know this comes across as flippant, and I dont mean it to be. I just want to hold you hand and firmly say to you,
"Weepy, its ok to do something that you want.Your H will disapprove in the beginning, but wait till he sees the benefits, and he will be telling everyone that it was his idea that you took this job!" :eyes
Which brings us back to my original question...what do you want, Weepy?
what do you want, Weepy?
Here's what I want...unfortunately some of it I can't control.
You know I'd really like to retire, but that's just not realistic while we're in a recession over here and gas prices are skyrocketing along with the cost of food, clothing, services. I want the President to sign the unemployment benefit extension.
So, realistically, I want to have 3 more months to get this transcription service up and running to where I actually earn some real money. I will agree to work part time at whatever I can to supplement our household until then. If it doesn't work out in 3 months, then I will look for a full time job in an enviornment I want to work in, doing a job I find fulfilling and pays decently.
But the way I have to put the issue is what do I need?
I need more down time. 30 years of busting my butt, being "the" provider, the doer, the nurturer, the mother, the wife, the employee have just burned me out. The last 2 1/2 years (whether he wants to acknowledge it or not) has taken a real toll on my zest for life. I'm fighting depression which takes effort. I'm just tired. I need the rest, I need more time. I feel like I'm just getting back some of my old spunk on some days. And others, like today, I feel like going back to bed with the covers over my head, but he doesn't know that. If I tell him, it will be "because we have MC tonight and I have to find something to bitch about."
I texted him this morning with just a quick "call me when you have a minute, nothing important" message. He hasn't called me back. That's not usual. The last 3 days have not been business as usual with him. He's not calling me, complains when I call him, he's going to bed early, he's complaining about everything, no affection at all, denigrating me... you know what it reminds me of. Half of me wants to ask him "who is she?"
I think I'm going to go with the original "I know we need therapy, but this isn't working" idea at MC tonight. Oh, and he's "decided" he's going to Pocono to the NASCAR race in August, without me because I won't like the atmosphere (apparently naked women). And I can't stop him if he decides he wants to go. He's right, but I don't have to be here when he gets back.
I'm upset, angry, and I hate him right now. I'm trying to make myself feel loving, but I don't.
Do I push him for what's going on?
We have DD's BF's graduation party tomorrow. I don't want to ruin her day, but I know we'll be alone tomorrow night because she's staying over up there.
We have MC tonight and I don't want to push anything that's going to keep us from going because it's not fair to her. She doesn't need the upset. DS is away so he's shielded this time.
I just feel like going upstairs, back to bed and crying the day away.
he's going to Pocono to the NASCAR race in August, without me because I won't like the atmosphere (apparently naked women). And I can't stop him if he decides he wants to go.
He said that, Weepy?
Weepy, from afar (and knowing that I dont know the day to day life you lead, only what you say here), it does sound like lately your H seems to have taken a turn down a nasty road.
He seems to have gone back to being selfish and mean to you. He seems to be leading his own life, doing what he wants, with no apparent regard to you and the M.
My advice to you (take this knowing that I am not doing too good meself and that jackass FWSs are not high on my friend list ):
Take the PT job.
Go about setting up your transcription job.
Start taking extra good care of you and your health.
Carry on your duties in the household as usual, but they are not your priority.The others need to pick up the slack too.
Give yourself at least 6 months with the new job and the transciption service. Anything less would be putting extra stress on you, and you could end up shortchanging yourself.
If your H is going to do anything dodgy, you know he would use any excuse in the book: you dont give him enough attention, you smother him; you are lazy and useless, you are too involved in your career; he will choose anything, IMHO, and no matter what you do, he (and all WSs)will find the fault within.
Go for what you need and want, Weepy. They dont have to be mutually exclusive!!!
We all know you got in ye!
I don't know why I made those plans for our "anniversary". I don't know why I'm so upset knowing it's the end, when I knew it was inevitable, known it was coming.
I hate that I held onto hope.
I know I can't, but I want to call his IC and ask him what's going on with him. Maybe I'll call our MC and see if she can glean any info from him.
Why the fuck do I care? If he's doing it again, we're done. He knows it and I know it. I know I didn't do anything wrong, I know this is him, but why? Why now? Why not when I was raging at him? Why now when I don't bring up the A any more?
You know your H's actions (and non-actions)are not your fault.
Look, we are jumping a few guns here. We dont know whats going on in your H's head.We dont know what he is doing. All that can be seen, is that he has been acting like a total prat in recent times.
You read that article that BT flagged about detaching emotionally. Go back to it.
Trying to make sense of your H will render you either homicidal or into a deep depression.
Maybe you can use your MC tonight to probe your H further on his motives. Unless he is going senile, he knows how he is behaving. And he knows that his actions are big no-no's.
So why is he doing them anyway?
You dont have to spiral down, Weepy. You can use this as an opportunity to fulfil your needs/wants.
Where is everyone?
Hope they remembered to disembark the ship on time.
I think it is "hope" that has you trapped. When you hold onto hope for a specific outcome in the face of lots of evidence that it is not going to happen, then it is no longer hope. It is self-delusion.
Your husband has been abusive to you for a very long time. Ten years before d-day and almost three years since. Despite IC and MC, he is not getting better, he is getting worse.
I think you need to face that very difficult truth. He is verbally and emotionally abusive. You are miserable. If he does decide to leave or cheat again, would that be worse than the constant daily assault on your heart?