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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI I
SI Staff
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Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone!!!

We are in our new home.

Ideas for decorating?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:06 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Back to our regular broadcasting:

I was furious. I had to stop talking to him at that point

I would have been too!
And I am sure I would have been confused and anxious as well...and have me questioning, "Who is this man??"

No wonder you are in such a funk, FNF.
And how embarassing for your DD.

***

Yes, LostH, we had a lovely time in London

Thats great, Ukg!
It sounds like a lovely weekend.
Can you believe we had dinner in theatreland as well on Saturday night? Turkish/Mediterranean.

***

I need to continue to consider this self-respect issue because it is definitely not something I can sweep under the rug. It will eat at me if I don't address it properly

Shirley, I am also addressing this in IC. My IC told me last week that my biggest battle is within myself, as I struggle to align my deeply held beliefs with staying with someone who I now know is everything that I hated.
And I mean hated...not frowned upon.

This will take some time, I am told. And the fact that your H has not wavered on his path will be of some help to you, Shirley.

I think the spouses who waver, who revert to old behaviours and traits,and then back again, are the ones that make it much much harder. At least with a consistent spouse, you can see tangible reasons for staying and moving forward,KWIM?

But its a hard road for us all.

***

I have thought about going back, especially when I'm in a down period, but since most of my recent dark periods are because of his reverting back to old behaviors, I feel I'm not going to get anywhere until he does something to address this. Does this sound like a copout?

I can understand your reasoning, Fnf. However, what you are saying is that you do not want help, unless he gets help, right?

Let me tell you what my IC said when I was so upset about H stalling on his IC.

She said that her job was not to heal my M or my H; it was to help me heal, help me grow to become a strong, independent, emotionally healthy woman, who will no longer accepts a H who treats her poorly. My H would either have to join me in becoming healthy himself, or he would be left alone one day. And she also said that there were no guarantees about that either. We could both end up healthy, and still split up.

However, what helped me too, was when she said that as I became stronger, it would spur my H to become healthy as well. I think BT told me that as well. BT said that when H saw the positive changes in me (as I took the spotlight off "fixing" him and focused on me), he would do the same.

And he does.

Do you know 2 weeks ago, he asked his IC about hypnosis? He wants to remember his childhood and try to figure out where he went off track. I was just dumbstruck.
My H can remember very scant details about his past, and has always been very reluctant to talk about that. I couldnt believe that he wants to do this for himself (and without me even asking)...and I felt really proud of him.

****
Shirley

I don't know if that makes any sense at all

It makes total sense!

[This message edited by Lost Heart at 3:08 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)]


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:12 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Me again.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY SO LOST!!!

I hope you and H managed to have the talk, and so "free" the day for you both to enjoy.

He is going to HAVE to accept that there can be NO MORE SECRETS...even good ones.
Hopefully, he will understand why, and that will help him stay on track too.

So what else did he get you?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Hi LostH! Beat me to it!

..anybody thought about where we might be when the cruise ship docks???

How about an ornamental garden? It’s a lovely time of year to be outside. I bet the restaurant serves cocktails ……… and smoothies.

Maybe there's a barbie in one section ....

And we can all help with the planting and pruning.

ETA. Deleted my long post . I'll see y'all tomorrow, a glass of vino is calling.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 3:21 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF -

Nope, we stay and do exactly what we swore we would never do. Is it any wonder we are filled with self-doubt and confusion. If we didn't respect others decision to stay, doesn't it seem only natural that we are having trouble respecting our own decision to stay and struggling every day to answer that for ourselves.

amen, sister.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is so weird...I feel like I am talking to myself.Aloud.

Today is my 13th anniversary. Its 21:20, and H hasnt said a word about it. I know he knows because my sister sms'd us good wishes.

We have both been in a low funk since yesterday. And we havent spoken about it. To his credit, he did ask me last night what was wrong, and I didnt want to talk about it. I am really so tired of this whole topic, I would probably bore myself taking about it.

Still.
13 years ago today I married him, after a tumultuous courtship. I was 23, filled with love and hope and most of all, wonder, that I was actually marrying someone like H. I just couldnt wait to prove to him how good a deal I was; that he wasnt going to be shortchanged.

Meanwhile, he had a MOW waiting for him at his house, where we were going to start our future. Although he had invited her and her H to the wedding, they didnt come. HE said she had been furious at him for actually going through with this. And of course she was pg with her 2nd child, a pregnancy she blamed him for!

If only I knew what a snake pit I was walking into. If only I had known that I would have spent the next 13 years in futility trying to love him, when he had never ever been open to fully accepting that love. If only I knew then what I know now.

I know its pointless looking back with "What ifs", but damn, it stings. I have asked him often the same question, to which there is really no answer, "Why did you marry me when you knew you lusted after another man's wife?Why would you do such a cruel thing to me, when I have never hurt you in any way?"

I guess his most honest answer was that he never loved her; that he doesnt know why he had to have her; that he loved the way I loved him, and yes, that in some way, he did love me too. In some way.
He has also said that in hindsight, that he should have never married me, or anyone else.

I am trying hard not to crash, to see what I have today against what I had before. Just sometimes, I just feel so sad knowing that I was never loved enough, cherished or respected by this man. That we should really, have never married.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((Lost Heart)))))))

Oh honey, I know how you feel. I was just there last month. I asked the same questions...Why? Why would you have married me when you were already fucking around? I got similar answers...I loved you in a different way, I needed you, etc.

The real answer is they saw good people in us and they were (and, to some extent, still are) very broken people.


((((((Hugs))))))))


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:40 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Shirley.
Sometimes it seems like I am moving forward, and then I realise I am on a carousel.

I am going to bed now. We still havent spoken. I just wish he would acknowledge today in some way, to show me that he does get how painful it is for me.Ah well.

And crap! No sleeping pills.

***
SoLost, please let us know how you are getting on. I will be back tomorrow.

***
((((Tribe))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostheart, many hugs to you. Lousy carousel if you ask me!!

fnf. I resonated with your post about H's getting irritated or feeling the victim when you show signs of mistrust--I'm just 5 months ahead of you from d-day--I think my H feels he's been doing "all the right things" for nearly 3 years, why do I still have suspicious questions occasionally?

Good advice to not allow them to play the victim--next time something like that happens here, I will borrow your phrasing--considering the LTA, it will be a very long time til I trust everything again--and I say to myself, it will probably be never since we have sporadic contact cuz of OC. Don;t know why he can't just accept that, it's part of the fallout from cheating, in my opinion.

I'm so tired of having every interaction which I can interpret as negative (and it might not really be negative, but just ordinary life or work or whatever making H irritable or less attentive) putting me back into a dark place. I'm trying to stop and evaluate things, and only discussing it with H if I feel it's real backsliding on his part. But it's such a chore.

I know I'm not perfectly attentive or whatever all the time, and it's not always cuz of the infidelity--just me or something at work or whatever. But I have a really hard time giving him the benefit of the doubt--memories of the betrayal are always there underneath, like a subterranean monster, to make me feel less loved or something--

I too mourn the impossibility of looking back at my marriage and knowing I had a H of integrity and faithfulness--and if I dwell on it, I get pissed off and snarky--I think it's one of the feelings that I have to chalk up to reality of my life--but it will always hurt.


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am on a carousel

Not a carousel but one of those ridiculous roller coasters with all the loop-da-loops and upside down stomach turning flips except this one isn't any fun.

Maybe he just didn't want to upset you by "remembering" the day. I made it clear to my H that it had no meaning so please do not bring it up. Maybe he just surmised that was the best course?

Sleep well.

So Lost - thinking of you and hoping you are having a wonderful birthday.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:42 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Start again. FWH fell asleep in front of the footy.

it was all his mother's fault

Ah, fnf. Wasn’t it always so? That somehow, in some twisted way, we women have a lot to answer for. Just at what point do they address these foo issues, put them where they belong and finally take responsibility for their actions, their “bad choices”? When it is all too late, I guess.

In multiple or LTA’s, do they feel they have reached a point that they do not want to venture beyond when looking into themselves? Is it a shut down thing going on here? So that your H, fnf, feels he has to put women/females down to not feel threatened?

Personally, this business of other people’s affairs just makes me angry and sick. And that’s those I have witnessed, those in the news and the thought of those yet to come. I don’t know at what point I would have told my H to fuck off out of my life. I would never have thought myself being here now, trying to fix my m after a LTA. Fucking someone else for five years was just unimaginable. And it’s all part of the thought process of somehow wishing I’d done it first. I said to a male friend of mine that I felt like saying to H about DS4 “hey, ever thought where he gets his real talent from …..?” But that wouldn’t work – too much of my H’s dark looks. But, I want to put that doubt in his mind, stupid, eh?

But judgement on other marriages? No. Oh, no. Behind closed doors and all of that. Too many of us have too much sadness in our lives through the actions of others. For us it was their lack of self esteem, judgement and respect has made us question our beliefs. Our WS’s are a reflection on and of us. That is why both parties have to be “fixed” in some way that allows us to move on in a united rather than divided way.

"Why did you marry me when you knew you lusted after another man's wife?Why would you do such a cruel thing to me, when I have never hurt you in any way?"

Ah, there begs my question too. Why marry me when you were still in love with someone else? He would say he wasn’t in love with her. No mate. Just waiting for her to return to fall in love all over again.
He has also said that in hindsight, that he should have never married me, or anyone else.

Tell him. Don’t regret your children. Never wish away their existence. They are your gift to the future.

SoL. Hope today was fine. Check in soon.

Sorry. This could be the wine talking. Or maybe I’m just whining. Night all.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Could we have landed in Hong Kong or Tokyo? I'm in an oriental mood.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you know 2 weeks ago, he asked his IC about hypnosis? He wants to remember his childhood and try to figure out where he went off track. I was just dumbstruck.

LH - I think this is just so promising. It is definitely a step in the right direction. He is acknowledging that the problem lies within himself and is not trying to pass the blame onto you or your M.
You should be proud of him.
Also, thank you for your kind support. You must know how much your understanding means to me.
I truly get what you are saying about my own C'ing. I have been thinking a lot lately about going back. I just don't know at this point what it is that I need. I think I have come to a place where I accept that my H is beyond change. He keeps saying to me that he will change, telling me basically that it's up to me to help him to change and quite frankly I don't feel that it is my responsibility to do that. He has to do that for himself.
He comes from a family culture that is so different from my own. It's amazing to me that we have made it this far.
I did want to send you warm wishes for your anniversary. I know how hard it is to get through these. I can somewhat understand why your H didn't say anything. I have told my H that I did not want to celebrate our anniversary in any way, shape or form. Perhaps your H was wary that your anniversary was a trigger and was doing the conflict-avoidance dance. Is that possible????
Either way, I hope you're feeling better.
HS - sent you 2 PM's. Made a mistake in the first one so the correction is in the 2nd.
I think it's one of the feelings that I have to chalk up to reality of my life--but it will always hurt.

25 Wimsey - I feel the same way. The other night I was watching The Notebook and I sat there and cried because I knew that I would never experience the kind of love and devotion that the 2 main characters had. I felt somewhat ridiculous (afterall it was just a movie) but it hurt so much to know that my H's betrayal will forever be a stain on our M. I console myself by telling myself that true love and devotion is a very rare thing indeed. I am trying hard not to crash, to see what I have today against what I had before.
I think LH said it best - Just sometimes, I just feel so sad knowing that I was never loved enough, cherished or respected by this man. This is what saddens me the most these days.
I told my H the other day that I thought of love in 3 dimensions. The first is when we say, I love you but it is a bit shallow. It is a kind of infatuation with no real depth. The second dimension we say I love you and we feel it but it doesn't go beyond a feeling. The third dimension, and the one that is most meaningful, is behaving in a way that demonstrates your love. It means protecting the ones you love, treating them with respect and care. Giving of oneself, making sacrifices and literally treasuring the person and doing everything within reason to make sure that person has no doubt as to the extent of love and devotion you feel. In sociological terms it is referred to as mature love. Loving even through the difficult times. Having a depth of feeling and concern for another person that hurting them or ignoring their needs for your own selfish ones would not be possible. This is what I mourn. This is what I want and deserve now. I have given this to him and my children for the last 35 years. I don't believe it is unfair to expect this now.
I think our S's should feel very damn lucky that we are even giving them the chance to express this dimension of love to us now.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF:

It must be very distressing to you and your SIL and DIL to have your husband acting like that. I wonder why he is doing it. Do you think it portrays his true feelings about women, or is it a sign of insecurity on his part? Or did he think this was a way to bond with SIL?

Unfortunately, I think most of us here trained our husband's to rely on us to do most or all of the heavy lifting emotionally, and what we didn't do society did for us. If your husband is at least open to change, maybe that's not such a bad thing, even if he is putting the onus on you to guide him.

One of my favorite posts on the Marriage Builders website is the one about being a lighthouse for our WSes. I know it is a metaphor that comes from Christian scripture, but I think it is one that is pretty universally relevant. It talks about how we have not just the possibility, but the responsibility to share what we know and have learned with others -- especially with our family and especially our spouses when they are wayward in some way.

Maybe heading back to IC for yourself is one way to be a lighthouse for your WS.

***********
Lost,

That is a really hopeful step for your H regarding the hyponosis. I am glad that your faith in him is being justified.

I'm sorry about the anniversary. I image it's hard for our H's to know what the right thing is to do, but not saying anything at all would be my very last choice. But perhaps it is what he would want if he were in our place.

In any event, it's your anniversary, too. Did you have something you wanted to say to him?

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If the course of this ship isn't set, I vote for someplace that isn't hot and humid. Maybe somewhere with hot days and cool evenings. Martha's Vineyard or one of the Brit seaside towns perhaps?


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:17 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ah, just saw the bad side to being the WS in the LTA. We had our oldest D 8th grade grad tonight and the speaker talked at length about the work of parenting and congratulating us all on such wonderful kids. Our DD won 2 incredible awards and was recognized by the faculty. Afterwards, my H was almost in tears realizing that *I* had done this. That he had been absent from much of the parenting and that he, as much as he loves and respects our daughter, can take very little of the credit.

I can honestly say, I would rather be in my shoes than his tonight. Please everyone here, give yourself a pat on the back for all you have done for your family and your children. You have given them so much.

Ed: 'cause I can't type when I am crying.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 8:19 PM, June 17th (Tuesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:21 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm with BT...no more humidity. We need seaside, with gardens, decks, cool night air. Can we go back to white linen slipcovers and sheers blowing in the breeze with the thistle and lavender wild going down to the coast?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
still breathing
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Member # 8592
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, June 17th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you all mind if i join in? I've been feeling very lonely lately and I realized that no one else in the world could possible understand all that I've been through except those who have been through similar crap.

Sorry if I cut this short. H will be home in a few minutes but I wanted to get my foot in the door (mostly to motivate myself) while this thread is still young!

I have just been so angry lately and I spend so much time wondering what decisions to make.

A little history so you can all get to know me better ... H's affair was 6 years. We've been together for 12. I was pregnant with our 3rd on DDay #1. I honestly believed that our life had changed and we were R'ed until 3 months ago. He was apparently "breaking things off for good" and because she is a psycho (like many OW) he enlisted the help of a few friends to convince her that it was really over this time. I just happen to stumble into the middle of that and there was DDay #2. Obviously there's plenty more , it was 6 years, but that's the shortened condensed version. The first month after DDay #2 we were "seperated", then he decided to unfog and for the most part he has been doing everything "right". The second month I was all about R and saving my family. But the past few weeks, I've been in my own personal hell trying to figure out what i really want. He hasn't done anything in particular. I think that its all just hitting me now harder than ever before.

I guess part of what I'm really struggling with right now is this:

The third dimension, and the one that is most meaningful, is behaving in a way that demonstrates your love. It means protecting the ones you love, treating them with respect and care. Giving of oneself, making sacrifices and literally treasuring the person and doing everything within reason to make sure that person has no doubt as to the extent of love and devotion you feel. In sociological terms it is referred to as mature love. Loving even through the difficult times. Having a depth of feeling and concern for another person that hurting them or ignoring their needs for your own selfish ones would not be possible.

I can't do that right now. I just can't. It hurt his feelings and i don't care. I can't love him right now, and i don't know if I really want to try.


Me - BS 31
Him WH 33
3 kids, 9, 4 and 2

DDAY#1 9/30/05 False R
DDAY#2 3/13/08 blindsided


Posts: 22 | Registered: Oct 2005
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:40 AM, June 18th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

I am all for cool and airy by the sea.

***
H said he did remember the anniversary, but as I seemed to be "in a mood", he thought he would just leave me alone...because he didnt know what else to do.

In any event, it's your anniversary, too. Did you have something you wanted to say to him?

I do, but I dont know what to say. Just thinking it gets me choked up. And I know he hates it when I cry and talk. He prefers cool dispassionate logical talk..and I right now, I feel anything but that.

***

Shirley, well done to you and DD!!!
Its moments like that when we can see that even though we didnt have a true H or M, our lives throughout were true and valid and real. Yay Shirley's DD!!!!

***

I can't do that right now. I just can't. It hurt his feelings and i don't care. I can't love him right now, and i don't know if I really want to try

Welcome StillBreathing.
Quick note as I am off to work.

Dont be anything that you dont feel. Your dday was so recent, and you must be feeling absolutely traumatised.

Be kind to yourself, Still.You have had the rug pulled out from under you...again. Its, IMHO, even worst than dday~1.

((((Still))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
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