Do NPD's have low self-esteem under it all?
It's beyond low self-esteem. It's self-loathing.
Toxic shame, where they hate themselves.
That to me, is what is underneath the development of the disorder.
The toxic shame, and resultant disorder can be "had" by degrees as well, making it harder to pin down.
We're all a little narcissistic, aren't we?
"Normals" move beyond self-centerdness as they mature.
Something, be it sexual or other emotional abuse, trauma, something gets the PD 'stuck' - unable to move beyond and grow from the (whatever horrible) event(s).
They believe they are internally, the bad thing that happened, or that they did -
it's not something they can see as a mistake, or something they did externally...
like we do, owning it, and moving on to become a 'better person than that'.
He did think I was leaving him a few years ago and his response was to ask me, tearfully, if I wanted to go and said please just to be honest, that I could continue to live there until I was done with school if that was the case.
Fear of abandonment. Other than introspection, lol! I believe this is the NPD's greatest fear.
And this is where knowledge is power:
he really did not think he would be that upset if he did but he would hate it if the guy said something in his suicide note & everyone hated STBEX.
The other great fear!
The ripping off of the mask.
Their entire existence, the sum-total of their psychic energies are spent maintaining the mask, the facade, the lie, these dear friends and lovers of mirrors.
Figure out ways to rip that off publicly?
Just don't do it while they're standing on your carpet, them brown and yellow stains are a bich to get out.
Oh, my pet luuuvs animutes, too.
I have a feeling this information is going to finally help me begin the process of letting go.
Questions for you from this newbie:
*How many of you were left by your NPD (or cheated on by him/her if you are still married) for an OP that was "less than." Meaning, inferior to you/and or him. In looks, accomplishments, education (all 3, in our case).
*Should I consider the fact that he has not tried to make nice via email, basically ignored me for over a month a good sign or just he calm before the storm? He has not tried to get me back, I think he is still obsessed with this chick although they are 'hiding' the fact that they are still together (fooling no one).
That is all I can think of at the moment but I am sure there will be more.
My ex was addicted to porn probably for the whole marriage. At times he acted better than other because he was afraid I would leave him. I did leave him 3 time for increasing lengths before I finally kicked him out.
I have been a bit obcessed at why he is with the wife he married in the summer. I guess in the back of my mind I half wonder if she is better than me in some way and that is why he is married and I am still alone. I know she is not better schooled because she has less education than he does (I have gone back to school and got my BA since he left ) She is older than me and not ugly but older. I found out tonight and she is insecure and needs the ex to 'comfort' her alot ( ) My son says she emotionally unstable and freaks out (mind blowing since my ex freaks with the best of them, screaming and throwing things. Apparently she cries if there is freaking Match made in...... )
My ex goes periods when he totally ignores me or the kids. He routinely goes months without seeing them for one reason or another. I think it is because he wants everything easy and parenting children, especially ones with special needs, in far from easy.
My ex can be very cold and cruel. He loves to pretend he is caring but it is only when he can see an ego stroke out of it that he will do anything. It is always about him and what he can get out of it. He puts people down to feel better about himself and he abuses people when they don't do what he wants them to do.
Once you have stepped back and done some healing you may be able to see just how sick and disordered that they are. I sure did. They manipulate people and use their 'charms' to abuse people. It destroys those close to them. That is why we often tell people to RUN. These people are toxic in very suble ways but toxic none the less.
Sorry I still need help processing the whole "she needs to be comforted all the time" and "she freaks out when anyone raises their voice"
What the hell was he thinking? He is the king of scream and holler. She sounds seriously needy and weak. I guess he is the KISSA. I guess I was just to independent and together and could run circles around him.
The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.
A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.
My STBEX downloads porn off the internet several times a week. Prior to the internet, it was magazines. However, he does not have a killer sex drive.
Sounds like yours was intimidated by your accomplishments and figured you were only there on borrowed time. He knew you would go eventually so he hooked up with someone who is very, very needy. It also sounds like a match made in hell so I would expect it to implode quickly.
My kids still want a relationship with him. That is the piece I can't wrap my head around. I know he is their dad and they will always love him and they don't have anyone else. Part of my wishes (and prays) that I will find someone. It has not happened yet.
My ex prefered the porn to a real life relationship. It didn't require much work. it was all take and no give. I am pretty sure she gives and he takes there too. He has memory issues so him learning anything like preferences would be difficult. He needed alot of learning in that area. It was all about him and I was a warm maniquin. I'd rather be alone than used like that.
jjct is right on target. They hate their "true self." This is the root of the disorder. They create this "image" that they present to the world and hide the true self. I'm not sure if this is conscience or not. Maybe they have done it so long (experts say since childhood) maybe it's automatic. But the "true self" is this hidden ugly secret that can never be discovered. The "false image" is this blown out of proportion version of what the NPD percieves as perfection. It's a gathering of personalities, looks, actions, styles, manners of speaking, interest, and other things. In a nutshell, they make themselves up of things (including emotions) that they have copied from other people.
They think this image to be so perfect that they actually believe that other people are jealous of them. In reality it is the NPD that is seething with jealousy of others.
This is why the NPD can be so confusing to "normal" people. They seem to have emotions. They "seem" to care. But as you are finding out, there is no consistancy and his "emotions" don't always match the situation. Have you ever had one of those moments with him when he reacted or overreacted in a situation. Then in a similar situation, he didn't react at all?
STBEX is one of those who is very tight with the compliments.
This makes sense to me. He's not going to compliment you unless it is attached to somehow making "him" look good. Maybe something like, "Wow, WE really _____ or _____." He would be less likely to single you out because he wouldn't want to place you higher on his scale.
He is also very hard on his body issues.
I think this is VERY typical. My XNPDH was completely OBSESSED with his body. He was constantly fussing over his hair, if it was turning gray, if it was falling out, deciding to color it or not. He was going to the gym. He tanned constantly. He nit-picked at every single inperfection that I had down to little stray eyelashes in the corner of my eyes that he insisted needed to be plucked.
I mean were're talking completely obsessed with how everything looked.
Yet he has also said to me that I am one of the few people he thinks is as smart as him.
Well, he wouldn't lower himself to be around anyone dumb. See? He thought you made HIM look good. You were serving a purpose. You were an asset at the time.
Yet he has low self-esteem because of not having his bachelor's yet. And he resented me going back to school for my Master's.
Well, you can't be TOO smart. You might figure him out and leave him. You walk a fine line when you're with an NPD.
How many of you were left by your NPD (or cheated on by him/her if you are still married) for an OP that was "less than." Meaning, inferior to you/and or him. In looks, accomplishments, education (all 3, in our case).
The ones that I know about, Yes. I was shocked at his "choices." In my mind at the time I was thinking that this woman had to be the smartest, most beautiful, sucessful, irresitable woman in the world to throw away our life together. Boy was I wrong. Nothing of the sort. It was shocking. Just shocking. They had a baby toether and hid the affair and the baby for several years. I threw him out when I found out and by that time he had a new OW and had left the babies mother for her. The last OW, now fiance/wife appears to be more established both socially, eduationally and economically. All of those things would be important to him. He wouldn't be with anyone (long-term) who couldn't provide for him.
Should I consider the fact that he has not tried to make nice via email, basically ignored me for over a month a good sign or just he calm before the storm? He has not tried to get me back, I think he is still obsessed with this chick although they are 'hiding' the fact that they are still together (fooling no one).
It could be either. Sometimes NPD just go away, never to be heard from again. (if you're lucky) Or they can be very vindictive and stalk, vandalize and harass for years. (like my XNPDH) If I were you, I would be prepared for both.
Stay NC with him. Do not reply to any of his emails or to any of his phone calls. NC is best with any NPD. Usually if they don't get the attention they crave, they go away. Document EVERYTHING. Remember that if your divorce does get ugly, stay calm and fight with FACTS. This includes all documents that prove who paid what when and how much. Most NPD's are pathalogical liars and try to win in court by lying. They can't back up their lies with any proof, but you can.
Stay strong, remain unbaitable and most importantly stay NC.
[This message edited by sadtoo at 9:47 AM, February 16th (Monday)]
When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
OC born 2001 (I didn't know)
Remarried 2008 (Happy!)
STBEX has been so unkind, so cruel, so destructive. He threw me away like a piece of trash after I loved him with all my heart for 17 years.
I have been reading up on NPD and all I can do is feel sorry for him. This is so sad! His life sounds so miserable and there is nothing anyone can do about it. It is so sad.
And I know he is about to get as mean as he possibly can (which is considerable) and the last thing I need to do is feel sorry for him but I guess it is hard to cut off the caretaking instinct after so long. I have always known he was fragile. He could be so sweet and affectionate. He always wanted to hug or spoon -- every time I passed him to leave a room he would reach out to touch me. And yet he could also yell at me and make me cry, make me apologize for stuff I did not do, withhold compliments or approval, give me the silent treatment, and blame me for everything. Not to mention have an affair and tell me I let myself go.
I used to worry about him getting sick or dying all the time. It is hard to realize that he is not my responsbility anymore--my future is no longer tied with his. I can't help him--he did not want me to or did not know how to ask. Actually, I guess there is no help available even if he had.
Anyway, I am just so fucking sad for him.
I know, I know, he is about to mistreat me into oblivion and all that will be left is hatred. I am dreading it. I think that will hurt just as bad in a different way.
I have too much empathy maybe. Too bad I can't share some with him.
Of course, he may not be a full-fledged NPD. What the hell do I know, I am not a Dr. He might just have tendencies (I think I have seen empathy from him, for example) and in that case, it is not as pitiful.
Sorry, I am rambling and I do not even know what I mean to say.
I'm sorry you're hurting and confused today. It's hard. It really is.
You have hit on some very valid points that we have discussed in the past here before. It is hard to just shut off the emotion and the need within us to be the caretaker. We have had this role for so long. And for most of us, this nurturing care-taking role seems to be a part of our basic makeup.
It is hard to see this person spiraling downward, making so many mistakes, throwing their life away. This person who you gave so much to, who you dedicated your life to, who you thought you knew so well who now seems like a completely different person.
Mine now seems like a monster to me. He is someone I really no longer know. It is sad. But I know now how much he hurt me and how much of myself I gave up over the years. I have detached from him emotionally, and I no longer concern myself with his feelings.
You will get to this place eventually. Try to be No Contact as much as possible with him.
Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson
My ex's ow, whom he is marrying in the summer, is eight years older than me, far less intelligent and certainly less attractive! However, she has what I don't: MONEY!! She probably does things in the sack that I preferred not to as well!!
I do not compare myself with her because there is no comparison. She is the shit on my shoe. They choose their course of action because they are morally corrupt and that is no reflection on me. Time will show who the true winner is.
As for intimacy issues with the freak, he preferred porn and I was no more than a blow up doll.
Ditto everything Its said for my ex except his new wifey having money. They are broke .
As for the emotions I think they are just really good at playing the part and looking like they have real emotions. Because the emotions are not real they sometimes get the emotion wrong if you watch real close. Theit behaviour turns the victims into emotional wrecks over time and makes us wonder if we are not broken. Once you are away from them and have chance to breathe and process you will see how much torture you have endured.
Mine have helped me so much too. It wasn't that long ago that I never would have dreamed of emailing the picture of psycho man driving by my house to Ow/fiance/wife before. I would have been too scared of the fall-out. Not now.
Plus, the good thing is I haven't seen any more red Hummers driving by my house.
Can you imagine? An NPD driving a Hummer? Geesh!!
I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time. (((Hugs)))
I remember back in the early days. I was in such a state of shock. I too had been so good to my XNPDH. I had done everything for him. Everything that had gone wrong in our marriage (prior to my finding out about the A's) I took the blame for (weather my fault or not) and did all I could to make things better. Any complaint he had, I would bend over backward to improve or make better. But all to no avail. There was no pleasing him. Nothing I did was right, and nothing was good enough.
When I had been breaking my ass trying to please him, believing every lame word he said about loving me and how he would never cheat on me and found out that he had not only been cheating with multiple OW, but had had a baby with one OW and live a double life for several years. When I confronted, he STILL lied. He never did admit to anything. Then as if that wasn't bad enought, he threw me under the bus and told everyone who would listen how I had abused him so horribly and that I was an alcoholic and a drug addict.
I can't tell you how many times I asked, "Why would he do this?" "How could he?"
Then came the, "How stupid could I have been?" Why didn't I see?" "Did everyone know but me?"
Keep reading, keep posting and just realize that this is going to take time.
Get in to see your Dr. Get on some anti-d's. They will help. I swear, those little pills saved my life.
It seems when we start to "get it" concerning the "Freaks" we get a kinda vertigo thing happening. You feel out of control. Up and down. Left and right. Hate and love.
All of these opposites.
I think it's because we lived in such a messed up world with them for so long that when the dysfunctional aspects start to come to light and or be felt it literally throws us off balance.
Ditto the ADs. I don't know what I would have done back then without them. Too much to take in. Damn Freaks !!! LOL (Awwwwww. I was trying so hard not to swear. Damn-it!!!)
I kept thinking I was so much better off without them because I thought I was "on my toes" and more alert about what was going on. Even with the panic attacks.
When I started taking the pills I was AMAZED! I began to think more clearly. The panic attacks subsided. Even during a stressful event, I was thinking clear and did not panic. Then after it was over, I did not have a meltdown. Whew! It was so much better!!
[This message edited by sadtoo at 12:50 PM, February 18th (Wednesday)]
When I started back to college, at first he was supportive. He seen dollar signs when I graduated and got a good job.
As time went by, that education became a threat to him. He only has a high school diploma, yet he has a nice government job that pays well.
He started trying to sabatoge me in school. It got to where he didn't want to watch the kids while I went to night school. So I started online classes. There was times when I would need his help with the kids so that I could do homework. He almost caused me to fail a few times. When he broke into the house he took my modem and the power cord to my computer. Luckily, my mom let me use her laptop.
He was always looking at himself in the mirror and admiring himself.
He is also a SA. He used to bitch that I didn't put out enough but then when I tried to he wasn't interested.
He is only nice when he wants something. He goes for periods of not calling the kids. Yet, will call to bitch at me. He sees the kids every other week supervised in a center. We shall see how long that lasts after the divorce is final. He has not done a damn thing that has been required for those visits to be unsupervised.
He fooled me for many years. It wasn't until I started standing up to him that he showed me who he really was.