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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N. P.D Thread - Part VI
WantingtheTruth
♀ Member
Member # 20889
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sadly, I believe this is a forum I need to be a part of. I have been all over the different forums trying to find answers and just located this one.

This is how I would describe my spouse's actions and words in a couple of sentences: He is a cruel, selfish, arrogant, uncaring man who is a liar and a cheater and will not admit the truth or accept responsibility for his words and actions. He appears to truly believe he has done nothing wrong, that all the problems in our marriage are my problems. He has no ability to empathize or sympathize with the pain and destruction being suffered by me and our family. He distorts the truth, truly believes the lies he is making up about me and telling family and friends, and truly believes his words and actions are justified and are all my fault.

He has the ability to distort every situation and appear to be the victim.

Am I in the right place?

How do I get to the original threads for NPD?

His life with me was full of secrets that I am having to discover and face on my own. He has confessed to nothing. Confronted with the evidence of the first woman I found, he insists that they were friends, that he needed a friend to get what he was not getting from me. He threatened me that he would humiliate me if I tried to use his friend as part of the divorce. As the weeks have passed and I have followed old trails, there are other women and so many other activities that have shocked me.

He started a new life months ago while still with me and he gets to move on with this new life while I am trying to find out about the last 20 years of my life with him and how much of my life was a lie.

How do I work around and negotiate with this type of personality to get our divorce moving forward? He has nothing to lose and everything to gain by dragging this out.

[This message edited by WantingtheTruth at 8:01 AM, November 13th (Thursday)]


The truth is easy to remember.
BW, 53, Divorcing WH
WH, 49, No truths, in denial
Married 14 years, together 20 years. Who is this man?

Posts: 91 | Registered: Sep 2008 | From: Georgia
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WTT Welcome

About the only thing you can do is to get a lawyer and have them work for you to get the divorce done. Don't talk to him and do everything you can through the lawyer. Discussions about the kids go through email and that way you have documentation about everything.

These people can't be trusted but they are slimy and can convince people of things that are unimaginable, atleast for a while.

It sucks when they destroy families and then leave the BS to pick up the pieces. Unlike many other families, these jokers have done so much damage already that I am not certain that them walking away is not the best thing. My ex was not only a pathetic husband, he is also a lousy father. Good riddance.

To get to the old threads you have to just click through the numbered pages on the bottom of the forum page for "I can relate" and it will take you back.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 10:47 AM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((Tribe)))))

Sadly, it seems that many of our children are deeply affected by all of this. My two are both in IC. My DS13 has been the most affected. His grades also plummeted. He began acting out in rages - hitting, breaking things, cursing, defiance. He is currently on 3 psych meds for ADHD, anxiety disorder and 1 just for the rage.

I surely wish I had the answers for you ladies, but please know that you are not alone in this struggle.

I just hate that the NPD has been the crux of all of these problems, and he just walks off into his new life, and still demands that I need to take care of these problems.

Welcome to this place, WantingtheTruth. It sounds like this is the place for you. Here is the link to the first NPD thread. There is lots of good info in the first few pages.

http://survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=158555


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7633 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What these people do to their children is unforgivable in my opinion. My daughter is especially affected by his callous behaviour and I imagine my son will feel the effects as he gets older. I have been left very damaged by what my pet bastard has done, I cannot imagine how it feels for this to be their "daddy" behaving like this. I think I will feel the effects of his behaviour for many years to come through my children.
There is a special place in hell for you when you do this to innocent kids.
I understand, sympathise and feel for all of us who have this as a legacy of our marriages. The injustice sickens me. What else can I say?

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 2:02 PM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Big hugs to all of you who are trying to raise children with these monsters. I cannot even imagine. I begin to have an axiety attact just thinking of trying to raise a child with my XNPDH.

I think I would rather live in a cave somewhere in an Afgan desert.

You are all heros in my book.

(((((Huge Hugs))))


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((folks with kids))) I wish I more to offer than hugs, but I haven't run up against anything this deep. My youngest had Oppositional Defiant behaviors at a very young age, probably due to some 'bonding' issues (he was hospitalized as a baby twice) and he didn't 'self-comfort.' As a result, between his not doing homework, not being able to fall asleep on his own, not being able to concentrate on anything that didn't absolutely interest him, I had many a sleepless night and nerve-wracked day. It was nothing compared to what some of you are going through, and he has improved greatly, actually. My NPD reserves his torture and abuse for me most of the time, although I know he tries to use the kids as his confidantes. I hate to tell him, though; they are mine. He spent too little time in their lives when they were younger to all of a sudden play Superdad now.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
betterdaysahead
♀ Member
Member # 12309
Default  Posted: 7:48 PM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WTT...sounds like you are in the right place.

It's difficult parenting with an NPD exspouse.

My ex was emotionally abusive to me over the years and physically aggressive around the home...eventually culminating in a physical assault on me.

I was awarded sole custody with liberal vistation (to ex) of our son.

Our son is now 16 but was 14 at the time. My ex made it intolerable for our son to spend time with him so my son hasn't seen him in over a year and a half.

He blames me.

I honestly will never understand the brain of an NPD...I am just grateful that my son doesn't see him right now. He is a growing, maturing young man and I believe that the further he is away from this toxic behavior the better he is right now. I think that the negative influence his father's behaviour would have on him would affect him in the future. He has a chance of growing up to be somewhat normal...but around his father he doesn't stand a chance.

[This message edited by betterdaysahead at 2:34 AM, November 14th (Friday)]


The best thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said. ☯

Posts: 13649 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Canada
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 9:36 PM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh shit. Oh holy shit.

The ex hit the little one square across the face when he was trying to get him to calm down Sunday and he grabbed his arms HARD. He told us that during counceling tonight.

When they got home I let the 2 boys play in the room together. I was talking to a friend and I heard them start fighting. Well somehow a game card got damaged and the older one lost it and hit the little one across the face. He came down crying. He got a bowl of soup and then his brother came down hungry,. He flipped out at me because his brother took the last soup and whipped the ladle splattering the kitchen and me with soup. Then he got a drink and was going upstairs. He demanding that I MAKE his brother pay for the card that their fighting damaged. I refused so he ditched a full glass of cold soup on me.

I was so upset because he also kept screaming at me that I deserved it. I called my father and asked if he would come and get his grandson. Of course he can only tell me that I am the problem and that I am the one out of control, what am I doing? I am freaking standing there covered in soup and juice and he is telling me I am out of control and making my kids act out.

I ended up calling the child protection on call worker and telling her about the abusive situation Sunday with their dad and about what had gone down today. My mom came to the door and she got the oldest to go with her. My dad will be so happy, NOT. Oh well. I was not the one doing this. I was as calm as I could be trying to manage their anger and acting out.

This is just too much. The little one got supsended monday because friday is a holiday. Then I have to meet with the program director. Because of my call to the after hours worker and the incident on Sunday I am going to have to deal with Child protective serviced again tomorrow.

Welcome to my nightmare. I need a freaking huge drink and chocolate cake all to myself. It is going to a long weekend.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
HappilyUnMarried
♀ Member
Member # 21299
Default  Posted: 10:30 PM, November 13th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((lied)))

It's so hard us with kids and NPDs. So hard. I feel for all of you.

I threw my son out of the house -- as I posted -- Monday. I have no idea where he is. I hope with his dad. I hope not on the streets.

His Dad won't tell me. I won't even bother asking.

Why is it only our responsibility? Why?


True happiness comes from within, not from someone else.† Donít make the mistake of waiting on someone or something to come along and make you happy

Posts: 1291 | Registered: Oct 2008
betterdaysahead
♀ Member
Member # 12309
Default  Posted: 2:37 AM, November 14th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am so sorry Lied2.

(((hugs)))

Also (((hugs))) WTT.

My heart goes out to all of those coparenting children with NPD...it's a nightmare.


The best thing about telling the truth is that you don't have to remember what you said. ☯

Posts: 13649 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Canada
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 5:50 AM, November 14th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Was it 10 years ago? 11? I try not to remember, really. My 1st wife took my 2 sons on a trip to her father's for a 2-week Christmas vacation.

I stayed home. Working my job. Home alone on Christmas Day, there was a knock on the door.
Divorce papers. Served.

Before she got back, I set up a land-line home phone recorder, and it wasn't long before I heard the "hello darling" awful truth.

I would get classifieds (among other things), and circle various apartment ads and leave them lying about the house, just to hear her talk about her plans - "once I finally left".

I hid the knowledge until our first hearing, when my L told her L that there was "a boyfriend involved".

I waited for her to come home that night. The boys had just gone to bed, and I remember her screaming at me in the hallway, threatening to leave. It's still painful to remember the boys crying, and asking me to leave instead.

She left. That night.

I kept the boys. The D was finalized, with her paying me CS.
Their behavior began to deteriorate.
Oldest kicked out of HS, eventually.
Youngest chose to go to alternative school.

Both eventually choosing to go live with her and her boyfriend. (They got married, but I've never gotten past 'boyfriend').

I had to let them go. Sit in court and watch while oldest was led away in handcuffs (stealing, running away from the chasing cops)...

Youngest too.

I did alot of praying. Still do.
I guess that's why I can sit here and tell you,
they somehow survived.

Though not the way I would have wanted it for them, they found out (and are still finding out) - some of the things that happen as a result of 'doing it their own way'.

But they survived.

I won't blow sunshine (((Tribe))), nope. Not here.

I don't have much understanding, actually, of the depths of a mother's love,
but as a human,

and having some experience with the toxic, viral, alien life form that is infecting ...
your sons

(Spock, turning from the computer; "Dr. McCoy, it seems this species has some commonality with the ancient-earth disease 'hemophilia'."
Kirk; "Yes! Bones, get on that right away!")

...
I am praying they will survive the eventual 'boundary lesson' the world will lead them to.

I'm praying we all will.
(((TRIBE)))


Posts: 6018 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 8:49 AM, November 14th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lied2,
Maybe you could check into something like Boy's Town. Do you have anything like that in Canada. Maybe Boy's Town takes troubled boys from canada. I'm not sure, but it would be worth a try.

Boys Town National Hotline is:
1-800-448-3000
www.girlsandboystown.org

They are here in Omaha. If this would work out for you, you could stay with me during your visits. It's right down the street. (like less than 10 minutes)

Just a thought.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 1:16 PM, November 14th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lied - you know you can pm if you ever need to chat. I hope it will all be ok for you.
jj - your story made me so sad for your kids. Why is it that the innocent ones have to suffer the fall out from these disgusting people.

I am having my own stress at the moment. Will post more when I can bare to write it down.

Hugs to us all.


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 2:04 PM, November 14th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I believe my youngest is on the wait list for the residential treament group home that is an extention of the day treatement he is getting (and currently suspended a day from). There are very few spots but he will likely be going there once a spot opens up. He is also on the wait list to see their psychiatrist.

That Dr is a piece of work and the one session my ex came to with him my ex stormed out of. The Dr then turned to me and told me that most of this all was because of the mom and her behaviour Hey buddy did you miss the flipping out father they have, the one that just blew-up and stormed back out? My fault...ya okey dokey.

Having said that I am game for anything right now because I am at my wits end.

I know my oldest is having a great day with my father I can bet money he is doing chores and then some. My parents are pretty unimpressed with his actions and he will likely not get too many priveledges right now especially considering he has the report card with him to show them where he is flunking 3 out of 4 of his classes and he is gifted. That piece he is going to have figure out for himself and if he wants to repeat the year so be it.

Thanks all for your support. JJCT I am sorry about your sons. I can imagine how difficult it is for you to watch them mess up.

Now if only they could come up with a antidote for the infected aliens before they mess with more people....


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, November 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The discussion over in D has got me thinking about some things...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=262870&HL=17484

...and I thought if I put some of it out there it might help someone.

If I could relieve our thoughts about 'getting over':
My mind thinks in terms of getting through.
'Getting over' is something I don't know, and because I don't know it, it is an abstract, an idea, a thought of; "what would that be like?", and filling in future blanks with imaginings.

In the end, I am frustrated of course, because "I'm not there" - at the place of 'over'...
(and please, I could use a little less frustration - especially self-imposed! right about now).

"Through" helps me acknowledge the reality, because it more accurately describes where I am during the daily process; the 'nows' I feel, or hey! don't feel! (so 'in pain' as before, etc.)

Since coming here about a year ago now, I remember how much it helped me - how amazed I was to finally at least name the damn thing.

It has a name? Wow. What a babbling release that was! I'll never forget it, as long as memory lasts -

So, through the process of learning, I've come to a few other things that similarly 'ring true' - that help me understand her:

1. Specifically, Toxic Shame.
You can google the writings of John Bradshaw on the subject.
What I have come to believe at this stage of the process, is that toxic shame underlies, or causes NPD. (I think Bradshaw states it underlies all PD's, in fact)

It wasn't enough to just hear the name (NPD), and to 'hear' "RUN"! I had to know why.

The thing that seems to invariably cause toxic shame to develop -
is Abuse.

I believe the degree to which our Npets exhibit Ncrap is directly proportional to the abuse they experienced in their growing up.

Variables are physical, emotional, both...how sensitive the child is to begin with, and also -
gender.
I'm seeing a pattern that full-blown female N's, especially the somatic, nymphomaniac-types - (are there any cerebral female N's? -w/out the sexual overdrive component?)-
also invariably experienced physical abuse.

Pattern-recognition helps me understand.

Another 'big thing' I've been recently going through is the part about me.
Why I ignored the red flags, and was (am still?) attracted to such issue-laden wimmenz.

Yes, catching the am-still.
I see it. And recognize it has alot to do with my own sense of 'needing to be needed'.
They're so broken, that a ding-dong like me can't help but do them some good, eh? lol.

MmmHmmm!

What motivates me to 'not go there' ever, ever again?
Right now (& it's working well enough)- it is the other thing I have begun to learn about the dynamics of the relationship I was in/am getting through:

As a man, it's harder to admit I allowed myself to be abused.

Be that as it may, still, I see that, primarily from this resource:

http://www.heart-2-heart.ca/men/index.html

I have alot of shame.
-My boys & what they've done (but the point is they survived! Yay! - so far! lol
- Getting involved with an N in the first place
- Allowing myself to be abused

Ok. Fine. But dammit if I am going to become toxic!
Those dumbass mistakes are not me-
I am ashamed.
But they are mistakes I made.
Learn. Move forward. Don't dwell.

I'm really determined to survive this shit, and I really don't have it near as bad as most of the wimmens here.

Your posts make me fantasize alot about magic-wands & stuff.
I love you all.
(((TRIBE)))


Posts: 6018 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
alwasluknbk
♀ New Member
Member # 21598
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, November 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm really having trouble getting some answers.I'm having trouble determing whether I'm really dealing with NPD on any level or not.I've read a lot of the descriptions here and on other websites, and there are some definate simularities.
I think what is the most difficult is that his behavior moves in cycles. When he is not acting like a psychopath, he is relatively normal, just still selfish and controlling. This "relatively" calm and normal stage of the cycle has lasted 6 months, and he claims that should prove to me that he has learned he cannot behave the way he did six months ago. I think it would just be easier if every day were hell, that way at least I'd feel like I know for SURE what I'm dealing with. Does this sound like what you all went through in your marriages? I don't want to be overreacting and jumping on this "bandwagon", but even more I do not want to be a blind ding dong.


#7. Thou Shalt not commit adultry.
Enough said.

Posts: 14 | Registered: Nov 2008
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 5:11 PM, November 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

alwasluknbk,
I don't think any of us would have married our NPD's if they acted like total psychos in the beginning, or all the time. I think that NPD's can control their behavior and keep things in check for long periods of time. Years if need be. When they are trying to accomplish something for THEMSELVES, it's amazing what they can do.

The ups and downs are also part of living with an NPD. It's the "hook." You start to think, "Hmmm, maybe things are going to be okay..." Then he just takes his lies to a deeper level, covers his tracks a little better, etc. With a true NPD, it's never really better. He just gets better at hiding, controlling and covering up.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 5:12 PM, November 16th (Sunday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7926 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, November 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

From NPD Thread number one:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=158555

There is much one can read about the symptoms of NPD and yet exactly this can be more than confusing, and you might find yourself going through a checklist of symptoms in order to arrive at some conclusion. However, the list above should give you some idea. Still, there is another element which is just as important and this quite possibly the most important item for you to look at:


Look at yourself and ask yourself how you feel and whether you are the person you once were and knew. If you live with a narcissist, you will develop a cluster of negative feelings centered around the emotion of fear and an image of inadequacy. This self image of being inadequate then will be due to a change in self perception. This is, it is a cognitive concept that you are not familiar with and which is in contrast to how you used to see yourself. Clearly, such a negative self image will have serious effects on the way you feel and behave. The dominant feeling is, as alluded to, fear. Fear of doing things wrong and fear of being punished. And thus, the way you behave too will become modified whereby you will watch your every move and where your actions become unnatural to yourself.

The issue is - in a sense - more complicated. Because, all of us have negative feelings and concepts about ourselves even if we never encountered a narcissist. So in this sense, what the narcissist does is to build on the already existing negative self images and enlarge them to a maximum. The situation is even worse because we are aware of short comings in ourselves. This is where the narcissist is most successful. The narcissist will endeavour to increase these short comings. I may give a personal example: once, I gave up smoking, the narcissist exercised so much pressure on me until I started again (I still smoke sometimes). The narcissist would really like to see you in the gutter.

However, if you see that you have substantially changed for the worse you can be sure that you are living with a narcissist, and a check list is not necessary any longer.

I have been on my own now for almost 3 years. I have not once EVER felt as alone as I did in my marriage. Follow your gut, stay true to yourself, stay no contact, love yourself. You deserve it.

with many positive thoughts...

DF


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, November 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JJCT I totally agree that these people are seriously damaged so long before they could have had any idea what was happening that they will basically never recover. However their behaviours leave lasting marks on anyone who gets close to them.

alwasluknbk They do cycle and they can often act different for different people usually related to getting what they want from the person. The core person doesn't change and it takes time for those close tot hem to see the real person they are rather than who they pretend to be.

With serious therapy they can get better but they don't really want their partner to succeed unless they can feed off that success. (having a sucessful partner means they are more wonderful and they take credit for that success ) Of course seeing someone else get better at something that they want credit for would mean that they had to undermine it because it might overshadow them. Control is what they seek and when they can control they destroy.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 10:42 AM, November 17th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That final sentnce by Lied is so accurate and so depressing.

Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
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