Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: goingunder (43138)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N. P.D Thread - Part VI
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, June 5th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 1:40 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Hey, guys!" she yells waving arms to everyone. "Looky what I found over here! A new and empty NPD Thread."


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7621 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, June 7th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

[This message edited by jjct at 8:54 AM, June 7th (Saturday)]


Posts: 5980 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Hurtnstill
♂ Member
Member # 12079
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, June 12th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wrong forum!

[This message edited by Hurtnstill at 10:59 PM, October 24th (Monday)]


FBS-Me 65
FWW-62
M-44 Years
Reconciled-34 years
Reconciled for 34 years

The more I get to know some people, the more I like my dog.


Posts: 345 | Registered: Sep 2006 | From: Oregon
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:33 PM, June 12th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurtnstill))))))))))))

Posts: 5980 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
throttled
♀ Member
Member # 20582
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, August 11th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need some help from some people experienced with NPD. My WH has a NPD characteristics diagnosis from his psychologist. I found out in October about one affair, and like so many others, started digging and the floodgates opened and all this infidelities came forth.

He was extremely remorseful at first, but he NEVER told me the whole truth, it took lots of digging and lots of d-days to get the truth out of him. It has been a long and metally traumatic journey in reconciliation. I have been on anti-d's and anti anxiety meds and have had minor bouts of depression.

I am at the point where I am trying to decide whether to give up on this marriage or not. My IC told me to set up some boundries. My WH depends on me to do everything for him, and he is very demanding and picky. Just taking the stress off of trying to satisfy his complaints and requests has been such a relief.

What he has continued to do is blame me for his affairs... to which I always reply BULLSHIT. He denies being narcissistic in any way. Big surprise *dripping with sarcasm*.

During the R, he has had to spend alot more time at home and with the me and the children, he always had hobbies to take up all his free time. We got in a HUGE fight where I told him that he was "only doing what a father and husband should do normally", he said he was "extremely unhappy and felt captive". That just really threw me... I don't want a future where I have to be concerned that I am planning things that are going to be exciting enough for him, because nothing ever is enough for him. He won't come up with anything on his own either.

It's my fault for his affairs, my fault that I can't get over the affairs. Oh and I should have empathy for him and the pain HE is in.

I left him this weekend, and moved in with family in another state. Our children adore him, and I have been staying with him because of the children. I am calling him to let the children talk to him but am not talking at length with him. I need some space and some peace.

I do love him, but is there ANY hope for someone that has these NPD characteristics? Is this type of denial, blameshifting in the early stages of diagnosis common?


Trust your hunches. They're usually based on facts filed away just below the conscious level. - Dr. Joyce Brothers

Posts: 191 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: hell would be an step up
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, August 11th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

throttled,

I'm sorry.

I would suggest going back to the first thread and reading some of the articles there.

You have a long road ahead. The good news is you have the strength and the courage to do this.

Many positive thoughts.

DF


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
downfall
♀ Member
Member # 7430
Default  Posted: 10:39 PM, August 11th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For the newbies:

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)
Definition, Fact Sheet and Tips

What is Narcissism?

A pattern of traits and behaviors which signify infatuation and obsession with one's self to the exclusion of all others and the egotistic and ruthless pursuit of one's gratification, dominance and ambition.

Most narcissists (75%) are men.

NPD is one of a "family" of personality disorders (formerly known as "Cluster B").

Other members: Borderline PD, Antisocial PD and Histrionic PD.

NPD is often diagnosed with other mental health disorders ("co-morbidity") - or with substance abuse, or impulsive and reckless behaviors ("dual diagnosis").

NPD is new (1980) mental health category in the Diagnostic and Statistics Manual (DSM).

There is only scant research regarding narcissism. But what there is has not demonstrated any ethnic, social, cultural, economic, genetic, or professional predilection to NPD.

It is estimated that 0.7-1% of the general population suffer from NPD.

Pathological narcissism was first described in detail by Freud. Other major contributors are: Klein, Horney, Kohut, Kernberg, Millon, Roningstam, Gunderson, Hare.

The onset of narcissism is in infancy, childhood and early adolescence. It is commonly attributed to childhood abuse and trauma inflicted by parents, authority figures, or even peers.

There is a whole range of narcissistic reactions - from the mild, reactive and transient to the permanent personality disorder.

Narcissists are either "Cerebral" (derive their narcissistic supply from their intelligence or academic achievements) - or "Somatic" (derive their narcissistic supply from their physique, exercise, physical or sexual prowess and "conquests").

Narcissists are either "Classic" - see definition below - or they are "Compensatory", or "Inverted" - see definitions here: "The Inverted Narcissist".

NPD is treated in talk therapy (psychodynamic or cognitive-behavioral). The prognosis for an adult narcissist is poor, though his adaptation to life and to others can improve with treatment. Medication is applied to side-effects and behaviors (such as mood or affect disorders and obsession-compulsion) - usually with some success.

Please read CAREFULLY!

The text in italics is NOT based on the Diagnostics and Statistics Manual, Fourth Edition-Text Revision (2000).

The text in italics IS based on "Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited", fourth, revised, printing (2003)

An all-pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behaviour), need for admiration or adulation and lack of empathy, usually beginning by early adulthood and present in various contexts. Five (or more) of the following criteria must be met:

*

Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

*

Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion

*

Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions)

*

Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation - or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (narcissistic supply)

*

Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favorable priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her expectations

*

Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends

*

Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or acknowledge the feelings and needs of others

*

Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same about him or her

*

Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted

advertisement

Some of the language in the criteria above is based on or summarized from:

American Psychiatric Association. (2000). Diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders, fourth edition, Text Revision (DSM IV-TR). Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Association.

The text in italics is based on:

Sam Vaknin. (2003). Malignant Self Love - Narcissism Revisited, fourth, revised, printing. Prague and Skopje: Narcissus Publication.

For the exact language of the DSM IV criteria - please refer to the manual itself !!!

FIVE DON'T DO'S
How to Avoid the Wrath of the Narcissist

*

Never disagree with the narcissist or contradict him

*

Never offer him any intimacy

*

Look awed by whatever attribute matters to him (for instance: by his professional achievements or by his good looks, or by his success with women and so on)

*

Never remind him of life out there and if you do, connect it somehow to his sense of grandiosity

*

Do not make any comment, which might directly or indirectly impinge on his self-image, omnipotence, judgment, omniscience, skills, capabilities, professional record, or even omnipresence. Bad sentences start with: "I think you overlooked ... made a mistake here ... you don't know ... do you know ... you were not here yesterday so ... you cannot ... you should ... (perceived as rude imposition, narcissists react very badly to restrictions placed on their freedom) ... I (never mention the fact that you are a separate, independent entity, narcissists regard others as extensions of their selves, their internalization processes were screwed up and they did not differentiate properly) ..." You get the gist of it.

The TEN DO'S
How to Make your Narcissist Dependent on You
If you INSIST on Staying with Him

*

Listen attentively to everything the narcissist says and agree with it all. Don't believe a word of it but let it slide as if everything is just fine, business as usual.

*

Personally offer something absolutely unique to the narcissist which they cannot obtain anywhere else. Also be prepared to line up future sources of primary NS for your narcissist because you will not be IT for very long, if at all. If you take over the procuring function for the narcissist, they become that much more dependent on you which makes it a bit tougher for them to pull their haughty stuff - an inevitability, in any case.

*

Be endlessly patient and go way out of your way to be accommodating, thus keeping the narcissistic supply flowing liberally, and keeping the peace (relatively speaking).

*

Be endlessly giving. This one may not be attractive to you, but it is a take it or leave it proposition.

*

Be absolutely emotionally and financially independent of the narcissist. Take what you need: the excitement and engulfment and refuse to get upset or hurt when the narcissist does or says something dumb, rude, or insensitive. Yelling back works really well but should be reserved for special occasions when you fear your narcissist may be on the verge of leaving you; the silent treatment is better as an ordinary response, but it must be carried out without any emotional content, more with the air of boredom and "I'll talk to you later, when I am good and ready, and when you are behaving in a more reasonable fashion".

*

If your narcissist is cerebral and NOT interested in having much sex - then give yourself ample permission to have "hidden" sex with other people. Your cerebral narcissist will not be indifferent to infidelity so discretion and secrecy is of paramount importance.

*

If your narcissist is somatic and you don't mind, join in on endlessly interesting group sex encounters but make sure that you choose properly for your narcissist. They are heedless and very undiscriminating in respect of sexual partners and that can get very problematic (STDs and blackmail come to mind).

*

If you are a "fixer", then focus on fixing situations, preferably before they become "situations". Don't for one moment delude yourself that you can FIX the narcissist - it simply will not happen. Not because they are being stubborn - they just simply can't be fixed.

*

If there is any fixing that can be done, it is to help your narcissist become aware of their condition, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, with no negative implications or accusations in the process at all. It is like living with a physically handicapped person and being able to discuss, calmly, unemotionally, what the limitations and benefits of the handicap are and how the two of you can work with these factors, rather than trying to change them.

*

FINALLY, and most important of all: KNOW YOURSELF.
What are you getting from the relationship? Are you actually a masochist? A codependent perhaps? Why is this relationship attractive and interesting?
Define for yourself what good and beneficial things you believe you are receiving in this relationship.
Define the things that you find harmful TO YOU. Develop strategies to minimize the harm to yourself. Don't expect that you will cognitively be able to reason with the narcissist to change who they are. You may have some limited success in getting your narcissist to tone down on the really harmful behaviours THAT AFFECT YOU which emanate from the unchangeable WHAT the narcissist is. This can only be accomplished in a very trusting, frank and open relationship.


(Co-authored with Alice Ratzlaff - More here: "The Inverted Narcissist")

Copied from the website: http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/personality_disorders/narcissism/narcissism_defined.html


Dday June 16 2005: Separated 2/06 Divorced 3/09

Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles


Posts: 3048 | Registered: Jun 2005
throttled
♀ Member
Member # 20582
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, August 11th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've read alot about narcissists, great book... Wizard of Oz and other narcissists.

Not engaging and arguing with one is really on tip that helped alot. That and not trying to do everything they request helps alot. Is there any hope in reforming a narcissist, other than placating and agreeing with their fucked up version of their omnipotence?


Trust your hunches. They're usually based on facts filed away just below the conscious level. - Dr. Joyce Brothers

Posts: 191 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: hell would be an step up
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is there any hope in reforming a narcissist, other than placating and agreeing with their fucked up version of their omnipotence?

In a word NO.

You can talk to them until you are blue in the face but they will not be able to see that the world really is a different colour than they say it is and that they really are not "god". Their adapation to the world to complete and they have been relying on that world view for so long (usually since early childhood) that they have no other frame of reference other than the one in their mind. I do think that they know some of the lies etc. are a mask but usually their survival depends on holding that mask up for the rest of the world to see.

As for living with someone who has the disorder, it can be done as long as you are willing to set aside you hopes, dreams and desires for what they want: forever. You have to be their slave for the most part and never cross them in any way. The list says what you must not do and what you must do to live with someone like that. Read it and then ask yourself is you can live a happy life like that. For me the answer was HELL NO.

Counceling can help them see some of their bahaviours and the impact they have on those around them. But for there to be real counceling they have admit there is a problem ( ) and since they are so omnipotent there really is nothing worng with them or anything that a meer mortal councelor can teach them.

Hurtnstill I have to say that the situation you are in is one of the reasons I knew that I had to divorce my ex even if everything else was ok. I knew that years from now it would all be like the other shoe hanging over my shoulder about to drop. I have no idea what would help. I know for me getting out was the only option.

LOL W2 I missed it until today and was still posting on the old thread. Gosh I need glasses.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
dreamlife
♀ Member
Member # 8142
Default  Posted: 12:04 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My N bounces from being cerebral to somatic.


~XWH told me what I wanted to hear but he always did whatever he wanted to do~

Posts: 25351 | Registered: Sep 2005
throttled
♀ Member
Member # 20582
Default  Posted: 2:01 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is trying to sound pathetic now. He says he misses his kids and me, but he sure didn't think of us when he was lying and screwing around. I am getting tired of his actions not matching his words. I mean if you were desperate to get your family back wouldn't you be more proactive, rather than trying to get pity. Pity for the situation he put us all in.

He tells me that I am controlling just because I am standing up for myself. I am slowly getting it... there is no equal relationship. Only his needs, and trying to do the impossible... which is to satisfy his demands.

I want someone to tell me something different to give me some hope. Why? Is it codependence? Is it that I love him and our family as a whole?

I am visiting family in another state and am doing NC except to allow the children to speak to him. I do see this heading for divorce, today, tomorrow maybe something different.


Trust your hunches. They're usually based on facts filed away just below the conscious level. - Dr. Joyce Brothers

Posts: 191 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: hell would be an step up
veritas
♀ Member
Member # 3525
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I want someone to tell me something different to give me some hope. Why? Is it codependence? Is it that I love him and our family as a whole?

It doesn't matter why. What matters is that you either resign yourself to stay and put up with being led on a string, or you leave. Too much thinking and analyzation is not a good thing because most NPD spouses are good people with real feelings. We forget that our NPD's have no moral compass whatsoever except what they should do at the moment, their only real feeling is rage, and they imitate all other feelings, even going so far as to try to mirror yours. The less they know what your real feelings are, the less ammo they have to use against you.


Actions unmask what words disguise.
Love many; trust few; and always paddle your own canoe.
When you win, you teach; when you lose, you learn.

Posts: 10164 | Registered: Feb 2004
throttled
♀ Member
Member # 20582
Default  Posted: 2:59 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We forget that our NPD's have no moral compass whatsoever except what they should do at the moment, their only real feeling is rage, and they imitate all other feelings, even going so far as to try to mirror yours. The less they know what your real feelings are, the less ammo they have to use against you.

I feel like I'm just discovering the true asshole that I am married to. He told me the other day that I was narcissistic and controlling. My head nearly exploded. I was like where on earth did you get that from did our MC tell you that? He said no, but he has known that I have been narcissistic for a long time. I have done so much for him and our entire married life has revolved entirely around him, his schedule and his needs.

I am now afraid to express any of my true feelings to him. Like veritas said, he will claim them as his own, anything to distract and throw you off base.


Trust your hunches. They're usually based on facts filed away just below the conscious level. - Dr. Joyce Brothers

Posts: 191 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: hell would be an step up
whyohwhyohwhy
♀ Member
Member # 17890
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

my npd also told me that I was a narcissist.

you simply cannot win with these people.

can anyone compare/contrast the differences between npd and passive aggressive personality disorders?


what did I ever do to deserve this?

Me:47 BS
Him: X, 51 PA SA NPD?
2 kids; DD14, DD8 divorced


Posts: 1028 | Registered: Jan 2008 | From: east coast
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Passive-aggressive personality disorder is a chronic condition in which a person seems to passively comply with the desires and needs of others, but actually passively resists them, in the process becoming increasingly hostile and angry.

Psychiatrists no longer recognize this condition as an official diagnosis. However, the symptoms are problematic to many people and may be helped by professional attention, so we include it here.

Causes

The causes are unknown, but a combination of genetic and environmental factors are probably responsible.

Symptoms

People with this disorder resent responsibility and show it through their behaviors, rather than by openly expressing their feelings. Procrastination, inefficiency, and forgetfulness are commonly used to avoid doing what they need to do or have been told by others to do.

A person with this disorder may appear to comply with another's wishes and may even demonstrate enthusiasm for them. However, the requested action is either performed too late to be helpful, performed in a way that is useless, or is otherwise sabotaged to express anger that cannot be expressed verbally.

Exams and Tests

Personality disorders are diagnosed by psychological evaluation and a careful history of the extent and time course of the symptoms. Some of the common signs of passive-aggressive personality disorder include:

Procrastination
Intentional inefficiency
Avoiding responsibility by claiming forgetfulness
Complaining
Blaming others
Resentment
Sullenness
Fear of authority (NPD usually don't fear authority because they feel they are above it)
Resistance to suggestions from others (just don't think anyone is as smart or has anything to offer them unless they are a source of supply)
Unexpressed anger or hostility (usually with NDP the anger is expressed, loudly and at a moments notice and then they forget that they ever blew up - Me angry? Never- truely rage is about the only real emotion they have)

Treatment

Counseling may be of value in helping the person identify and change the behavior.

Outlook (Prognosis)

The outcome can be good with treatment.

The Passive-agressive PD is no longer a recognized disorder and is instead just a maladaptive set of behaviours.

It also has good outcomes with therapy because these people are able to relate to the world around them in ways that allow them to see that their actions impact others and that they need to treat others well to be a functional part of society. Conversely people with NPD are so self-centered that the world around them doesn't exist other than to serve them. The world owes them something and if they don't get it they will rage or do whatever they need to get the result they expect. They are cameleons who will be anything to anyone to get the attention they need. (PA do not usually seek attention rather withdraw from it)

The 2 disorders are also the polar opposites in many ways.

As for the NPD telling you that you have this disorder or that one sounds like projection more than anything else. We have to be the problem because they can't be.

My ex still says I am controlling when I use my boundaries. It just means I am not giving him what he wants. I always take it as a sign that I am doing a good job.

[This message edited by lied2 at 5:42 PM, August 12th (Tuesday)]


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:09 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Like a dropping shoe, there's a simple THUD- quality to this:
My ex still says I am controlling when I use my boundaries. It just means I am not giving him what he wants. I always take it as a sign that I am doing a good job.

That shoe landed right on the quote thread.
"Thuds" for me!


Posts: 5980 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Eumenides
♀ Member
Member # 15508
Default  Posted: 6:26 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now that my STBX's affair partner has left him, he has been giving me trouble. I'm fairly certain that he has NPD. (Nothing is ever his fault, he doesn't answer questions, arguing in circles, sees people as tools, etc.)

I am offering him a free and clear uncontested divorce on a silver platter. (Mainly because I don't have the money to fight things out in court. I am just about broke and treading water in limbo-land.) We've been apart for over a year now. All I need from him is a copy of his paystub and a signature. He doesn't even have to show up to court.

However, he is saying now that he doesn't want a divorce. That he wants the house and the car and our child. He's saying he wants primary custody of DD (ha!) and won't settle for just joint custody.

Seriously, I'm giving him a deal he thoroughly doesn't deserve. And still he tries to get more!

All I really want is my freedom and my maiden name back. I just want the darned divorce, and yet he balks.

If I contact the lawyer and have the papers drawn up, but he doesn't sign, the fee goes from $750 to thousands. So I can't call the lawyer until I know that he'll cooperate.

My question is, does anyone on here know how to negotiate with a narcissist? Is there any way to get a person like this to cooperate?

He plays these games with me because he likes to watch me get upset. He's so sick in the head. And what I want is so simple.


Love and compassion are never enough.

Final D-Day: August 2007.
Divorce finalized: 6-16-09


Posts: 704 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: Tartarus
throttled
♀ Member
Member # 20582
Default  Posted: 7:02 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is, does anyone on here know how to negotiate with a narcissist? Is there any way to get a person like this to cooperate?

I would LOVE to know if this is possible. My WH does not want a divorce and I know he is going to make it hard for me to get one.


Trust your hunches. They're usually based on facts filed away just below the conscious level. - Dr. Joyce Brothers

Posts: 191 | Registered: Aug 2008 | From: hell would be an step up
Ron7127
♂ Member
Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 7:13 PM, August 12th (Tuesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When dealing with a N, I think you absolutely have to use an attorney, one who will take no bullshit.
Many of these types (the N's) talk a big game. But, on some level they realizre that if they go to court, with facing a good lawyer, their facade will be exposed. So, they fold.
But, you cannot negotiate with an N on your own.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.