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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N.P.D. Thread part VI
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jj,
Why isn't the answer simply "Yeah, i AM happy!" (the N is out of my life)?

I think my answer was, "As a matter of fact, I am glad you're gone." A fact - not a lie or a manipulation. Truth. As opposed to everthing that comes out of his mouth which is BS, blameshifting, lies, manipulations, or said to hurt or control me.

Like you, jj, I think that I really had a need to "fix" him. To mother him, to help him. I contantly had to overcompensate for him. Took on more and more. Expected less and less. I can see now how much I worked to protect the kids. Diffusing situations. Insisting that he apologize to them. Apologizing for him. Making excuses for him.

Like, HB, I thought if I just went on doing the best I could, giving him a break, giving him some room, we would be alright. Pretty soon, I was doing everything, he was doing nothing, I became a horrible person in his mind, and he began pursuing my replacement.

Is this caretaking personality something that we all have in common? I accepted him with his faults and his horrible childhood. I never expected perfection. I gave him my own family. I gave him everything.

I guess it just goes to show that nothing we can do or give or say can fill the empty hole that is inside of these people. That is really it, isn't it?


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7636 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 1:08 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yeah, really. i think that's it.

downfall's first posts really opened my eyes about who we are
(special, actually) - & I think we are so "all that",
that we sense & feel compassion for those who - let's face it, shall we?
really do NOT love themselves.

it's grindingly painful, the process of realizing that your "all that" is being eaten, used, discarded, and shat.

look, we're still ok - we really are, chew marks, shitsmell & all!

we need a shower, s'all -


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 2:06 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"If it was really so bad, why did you stay with him?" What is the answer to that?

I agree. It's not an easy question to answer. The short answer is, "Because I was committed to our marriage and I believed him when he said he was sorry and was going to get help."

The long answer is because we were being abused. This type of abuse does not happen instantly. It's not like we went out on our first date and he through a drink in our face, called us a disgusting f'ing bitch, then push us out of the car as he slowed down in front of our house. We would never have given "that guy" the time of day, let alone a second date. But with the NPD, they start off TOTALLY charming. The abuse starts slow and in spurts. We justify it as, "he's having a bad day, everyone is entitled to a bad day, right?" Then it starts to happen more and more often and it's more and more severe. We still justify and question our own judgement,
"Is it really this bad? Am I overacting? Maybe I am the one to blame, maybe I did bring this on. Maybe I am the one who needs help."

If you have children, it's even more complicated.

Plus, don't forget that every word that is coming out of the NPD's mouth is a LIE and you are no position to make any decisions because he has robbed you of your ability of doing so because the information you have is ALL LIES.

Why did I put up with it for so long?

We all have our own reasons for staying so long. I thought I had stayed "so long" too. Now looking back, it was only 5 years. Only five short years out of my life. At the time, it felt like a lifetime, but now not so much.

Why couldn't I see how bad it was?

Because he was lying and clouding your thinking, your judgement, and all of your thoughts. You couldn't see any of this until you were hit by the bomb.

Why didn't I realize that he was abusing me and my kids?

Good people don't want to accept that they have made a horrible mistake in judgement in who they chose to marry and who they chose as a father for their children. It's a tough pill to swallow.

Why couldn't I see this until the "bomb" was dropped on me? Why can I see it so clearly now in retrospect?

Because you have distance now and he is not poisoning your thinking.

Why did I allow him to obliterate "me"? Why didn't I see it and leave?

I'm sure you didn't realize at the time that he was obliterating you. You probably thought like most of us that you were trying to save your marriage and your family. Maybe there was the fear of abuse.

The other question about being happy or not that they are gone is also tough.

We don't miss the monster who has done all of this damage, but we do miss the charming man who we fell in love with and married. Once you realize that the Monster is the REAL person and the charmer was only a mask, you will begin to heal. You have to let the charmer go and realize that he never existed.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 2:09 PM, July 6th (Sunday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
connection
♀ Member
Member # 16927
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe,
I haven't posted here in a while... but these questions struck a chord with me:

Why did I put up with it for so long? Why couldn't I see how bad it was? Why didn't I realize that he was abusing me and my kids? Why couldn't I see this until the "bomb" was dropped on me? Why can I see it so clearly now in retrospect? Why did I allow him to obliterate "me"? Why didn't I see it and leave?

In IC, I discovered that I stay because I have a "negative need" to "fix" things. (Negative because it's a need I have to my own detriment.) Probably because of behaviour I developed as a child, I have a need to "make things right".

I think I tried to make my STBXH right. I tried to make up for the damage he suffered as a child, the loss of his younger brother, the damaged relationships he had with family. Sadly, I would have given anything to have his praise. From there, I thought that praise = love.

Now I'm only beginning to understand what a healthy, mutually beneficial, kind, loving, caring, relationship might look/feel like. It's not even close to what my marriage was like.

But to answer the question, "why did I stay?" - I think my STBXH nicely met my negative need. He needed fixing. I'm hoping now that I've identified and worked on my negative need, it will disappear! So that I won't be drawn to someone who needs fixing again.

Anyway, hope you all are well.


Posts: 128 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Ontario, Canada
lostsahm
Member
Member # 17136
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why did I put up with it for so long?

Isn't that a great question. Because I loved him more than myself and my children. Because I started believing him that he was the only man who would ever "put up with" me. Because I was a sahm and needed him financially. Because I was addicted to him. Because I had put so much effort into "fixing" him, that I kept thinking it would get better.

Why couldn't I see how bad it was?

Because i was addicted to him. And I did KNOW it was bad, hell, I told him all the time there was something wrong with him. I told him repeatedly how I had never met anyone who saw the world the way that he did and that it was f*cked up. I knew it was bad, just not how bad it was.


Why didn't I realize that he was abusing me and my kids?

That's a great question. I knew. I chose to ignore it. He had me truly convinced that I would be alone forever without him.

Why couldn't I see this until the "bomb" was dropped on me?

Even having the bomb of the affairs and the OWs pregnancies wasnt enough for me to see it. Even when I told him I was pregnant and he told me I had to have an abortion or he was divorcing me, I saw it...but not clearly.

It took a week after his demanding of me to abort for me to see it. I refused to have the abortion. Five days later he packed up every last thing and sat on the couch and told me I had to abort or he was leaving. I wouldn't budge, I refused to have the abortion. He left. I went nuts. I told him I was going to kill myself and told him I couldn't live without him (as he had told me for years), he said, "go ahead, you don't have the guts."

I took more pills that anyone person should ever ingest. I ended up in the hospital and in the psych ward. Day two after he left and I took the pills, he told me that he was too busy to come see me in the hospital. Why? His response was that he was too busy dealing with my sh*t. When I asked what he was dealing with, his response was (and I swear to God),"Your friends keep calling me to ask if you are Ok, and its' driving me crazy, I don't have time to get anything done because they keep bothering me."

I think I understood then. Two months later, I still hurt over some of those cruel comments.


Why can I see it so clearly now in retrospect?

Because he's gone. Because, I am regaining my strength and I don't have him telling me everyday that I am stupid and pathetic.


Why did I allow him to obliterate "me"?

This is the million dollar question. And because I don't know the answer, I can not date anyone until I can be sure I don't fall into the same relationship dynamic.


Why didn't I see it and leave?

Because I was scared to be by myself. Because I didn't want to be twice divorced with a gaggle of kids. Because I didn't want to be poor. Because I didn't want to be alone. Because he told me I never would. sigh.

[This message edited by lostsahm at 9:50 PM, July 6th (Sunday)]


"Do what you feel in your heart to be right- for you'll be criticized anyway. You'll be damned if you do and damned if you don't."
- Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 834 | Registered: Nov 2007
lied2
♀ Member
Member # 1807
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why did I put up with it for so long?
I think that it was because I was alway taught that divorce is bad and that you stay married even when it is horrible and it takes everything you have to stay. I think the stigma of divorce didn't help and neither did the fact that I was a SAHM to 2 special needs kids.

Why couldn't I see how bad it was?
It was bad but I knew raising the kis alone was bad as well. I lived for 2 1/2 months alone with them and it was just as difficult as living with him in the house and having the financial support. In my case I need the time for the kids to mature and when I did leave it was finally slightly easier than what I had been living with to cope.

Why didn't I realize that he was abusing me and my kids?
I knew. I chose to ignore it. I grew up with a father who was a very harsh man and some of the stuff that happened didn't seem much worse than what I lived with growing up. I didn't feel like I had an alternative. I had tried to get out before and didn't get the help and support I needed to stay gone.
Why couldn't I see this until the "bomb" was dropped on me?
The bomb sent it all over the edge. I have often wondered how long I might have stayed if he had not cheated. I shutter to think of what my life would be like today had he stayed.

Why can I see it so clearly now in retrospect?
I know initially I was in too much shock to see how abused I was and for me to find myself hidden under all the pain and wreckage of my life.

Why did I allow him to obliterate "me"?
I think I let him because I fel like I needed him. It was as if the ony way to be married to him was to give up myself. It was certainly the only way to keep peace. At one point not long ago my ex came here and I showed him my degree and he turned to me and said " see you didn't need me after all". I turned to him and said "I never needed you, I just had to find the strength to stand up and prove it to myself" (the look on his face was priceless) I was always there I was just to afraid to stand up for myself for fear of what it would mean to me and my marriage. I am just sad that my kids had to be harmed for me to finally grow my backbone and get out.

Why didn't I see it and leave?
I did see it and tried to leave 3 times before he was forced to leave because of the adultry and abuse. It took me time to find the courage to leave for good.


The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence. It is astro turf.

The essence of love is not what we think or do or provide for others, but how much we give of ourselves.


A clean house is the sign of a broken computer.


Posts: 8196 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Ontario, Canada
Heartless Bytchh
♀ Member
Member # 12347
Helpless  Posted: 10:50 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, let me pick y'alls brains about something else.

Because of everything that's happened I've had to really struggle with self esteem issues at least twice since I found out about everything.

I think the self esteem thing ties in with all these questions we've been discussing.

I think my self esteem was changed by all the years we were together.
In some ways I feel like I've recovered some of that ground back but not all of it.

I know I'm a good person and I'm fairly smart and have a sense of right and wrong.
I have a somewhat warped sense of humor.

Here's where I'm having trouble.
I would like someday to have a relationship w/ a normal guy.
I know I don't need a man to fulfill or complete me etc.
(That was another issue I had to work through several yrs ago)

But I feel like now that I'm older, heavier, not very good looking,and have kids,(well, one kid now)and have so much grief over Niki that no man would be interested in me for myself for a relationship.
I feel like the only guys I'll ever be able to be interested in me are ones that are users.

How do I deal with this?

Mods, if this is the wrong place for this, just delete it.
It's just where I'm at now.


Woodchipper pretty much trumps everything.-Rufus Turner
Sometimes I feel like SI is that person who says... "if you can't say anything nice... come sit by me!"-rumorhasit

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Another day in Paradise
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((everyone))))

Wow, I think we all need the biggest of hugs tonight. All of your responses to my questions have been so heartfelt and revealing. Many of you express the same things that I would. Our wounds are all so similar.

lostsahm-- This. Wow.

I wouldn't budge, I refused to have the abortion. He left. I went nuts. I told him I was going to kill myself and told him I couldn't live without him (as he had told me for years), he said, "go ahead, you don't have the guts."

I took more pills that anyone person should ever ingest. I ended up in the hospital and in the psych ward. Day two after he left and I took the pills, he told me that he was too busy to come see me in the hospital. Why? His response was that he was too busy dealing with my sh*t. When I asked what he was dealing with, his response was (and I swear to God),"Your friends keep calling me to ask if you are Ok, and its' driving me crazy, I don't have time to get anything done because they keep bothering me."

Holy crap is all that I can say to this.

Seriously what a piece of work he is!! I hope that Karma bus comes round for him real soon.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7636 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 11:22 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Heartless (so not true, BTW) brings up the self-esteem thing. Yes, I think it is all tied in with the abuse and manipulation that we endured for so long. I would say low self-esteem, self-doubt, and loss of sense of self are all tied together.

Like you, I hope that I can recover enough of my true identity that I will be whole enough to enter into a normal relationship again. For now, the prospect is terrifying. STBXH and I started dating when I was 16. Terrifying. Truly.

HB, you have had so much loss and grief recently. I think you are doing the right thing by concentrating on making yourself whole again. Healing all of your wounds as best you can. Don't sell yourself short. You are a good person and a strong woman.

Let's keep our heads up so we don't miss our prince when he comes riding in to our lives.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7636 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
Marcia
Member
Member # 6503
Default  Posted: 11:59 PM, July 6th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Once you realize that the Monster is the REAL person and the charmer was only a mask, you will begin to heal.

Sobering, accurate advice.


WHEN DID THE RULES CHANGE?
How did I miss the memo???

People: Read up on the 180!
Oh, and I'm boycotting Nike forever ;)


Posts: 225 | Registered: Feb 2005 | From: Washington DC
Heartless Bytchh
♀ Member
Member # 12347
Default  Posted: 2:04 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you WB2,

I'm not necessarily looking for a prince, I just want a decent guy.
Or is that an oxymoron?


Woodchipper pretty much trumps everything.-Rufus Turner
Sometimes I feel like SI is that person who says... "if you can't say anything nice... come sit by me!"-rumorhasit

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Another day in Paradise
sadandtrying
♀ Member
Member # 19246
Default  Posted: 4:30 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What does NPD stand for?
From reading the thread I feel like I get the gist, but what EXACTLY does it mean??
Thanks.

Posts: 1064 | Registered: Apr 2008
Balancing Act
♀ Member
Member # 19047
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NPD = Narcissistic Personality Disorder....

There is a ton of stuff on the internet about this...just google it

And for all of us, I think it's useful to go back and read the first few pages of the NPD Thread...here's the link...

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=158555&AP=1

The first two posts on this thread were so helpful to me in dealing with this stuff when it was brand new to me...


Me - BS....living a wonderful new beginning and giving love another chance

Tulsa Area Coffee Buddy


Posts: 2443 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: in the middle, somewhat elevated
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

i hope this doesn't mess up this page like the last ones.
but this is my other gurl "after"...

Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
OutFromUnder
♀ Member
Member # 19061
Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I kind of feel like my self esteem is in worse shape after reading up about NPD than it was when I was with the NPD. The person that puts up with one is not the person I thought I was. Anyone else?

jjct, cute "gurl"!!!


Posts: 79 | Registered: Apr 2008
itsabattle
♀ Member
Member # 13036
Default  Posted: 3:51 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So much of what is on here is so relevent to my own understanding of my very dysfunctional relationship.
I put up with this hideous relationship because I could not stand the thought of failure. Going through counselling made me realise that I have quite ridiculous high standards of myself that I would not use to measure anyone else.
I put up with the crap because I could not stand to be divorced and the stigma that it involved in it. I.E. I chose a bastard to marry and have kids with because what did that say about me?
His affair only confirmed what I already knew, that he was a shit but I thought I was doing the right thing for the kids etc etc. He used my own standards and morals against me. He also used my insecurities against me. Who else would want you? You are fat, ugly etc etc.
Actually I am not! I am pretty amazing and he was lucky to have me!
But he used my lack of confidence against me and it was him that caused the lack of confidence. It was a viscious circle but it was broken by his affair because at some point i realised that I deserved better. I deserved to be treated well as I am a decent person.
Downfall said that she wanted peace. When I saw my cousellor for the fist time, she asked me what I wanted and I said "peace". I got peace when he left. I am beginning to blossom into the person I once was, only now wiser and stronger. I would never let anyone treat me like that again.
It will take a long time to forgive him and to forgive myself for putting up with his treatment. He used my personality against me. I put up with it because I let him. What a fool! But I would be a real fool if it happened again.
I can look back on that part of my life now and see someone so different. I was trapped but now I am almost free. I am the bird whose cage door is open but I just need a little help learning to fly again. Soon I will be soaring the skies.
We all have to understand why the abuse happened and our roles in enabling that to occur. Then we need to forgive ourselves. Maybe we will forgive the freaks one day. Then we will live our lives on our own terms and never let it happen again. It is one of life's lessons learnt the hard way.

Sad and Lied - you always make me feel so much better. I was getting worried about my intolerence to certain situations but you make me feel like it is ok to feel the way I do. Your advice is always so important to me.

One thing is certain, we are all on the road to recovery. As Bob said it is the journey that is important, not the destination. Actually, I think it was Budha but Bob passed on the words of wisdom.


Posts: 1233 | Registered: Dec 2006 | From: england
Heartless Bytchh
♀ Member
Member # 12347
Default  Posted: 4:13 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Itsa, I plan on living my life on my terms from here on out.
It may not always be easy or fun, but it'll be mine.

JJ, it looks like your gurl is saying "Dadddyyy, I'm nekkidddd!".


Woodchipper pretty much trumps everything.-Rufus Turner
Sometimes I feel like SI is that person who says... "if you can't say anything nice... come sit by me!"-rumorhasit

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Another day in Paradise
Ron7127
♂ Member
Member # 10145
Default  Posted: 4:41 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Their abuse is insidious and escalates gradually. It's the frog being put in tepid ater and warmed gradually to the point of boiling thing.
When I was with my NPDW, I gradaully lost myself. My confidence and self esteem were eroded over time to the point where I was so jumpy whenever she was around. The abuse could come out of the blue, completely unexpectedly.
My main source of shame is that I put up with it so long, hoping to keep our family together for our kids sake. In the process, I was reduced to a quivering mess.
I cannot believe how persisitent these folks are in tearing you down and hoe adept they are at isolating you from support. I heard so many bad things about myself from her. She never, ever apologized for anything she said or did.
If I was upset at being doused with cold water or told I had no penis or balls or was a piece of shit, I was too sensitive.And, I believed this.
It's unimaginaeable that being told I was like a woman or a piece of shit was not obviously abusive to me. But, I doubted myself.

Posts: 2273 | Registered: Mar 2006 | From: Minnesota
Heartless Bytchh
♀ Member
Member # 12347
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ron, what awful things to hear.
I get what you say about the frog.
Maybe that was me.
Ok, I'm feeling all froggy now.
ribbit

It's like the slow erosion of the mountain in being w/my NPD.
I'm noticing a pattern today.
If I don't answer his TM's back right away, he sends another one asking if I got his message.

If I don't feel like it, I don't.
Why should I?
Ees not my jawb enymore.
It's not a priority to me anymore.
The fact that it makes him a little insecure is just a small bonus to me.
I doubt it hurts him as much as it hurt me over the last couple of yrs to be ignored.
For me, it's empowering.


Woodchipper pretty much trumps everything.-Rufus Turner
Sometimes I feel like SI is that person who says... "if you can't say anything nice... come sit by me!"-rumorhasit

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: Another day in Paradise
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, July 7th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

a bit of a backatcha itsa - that last post was helpful to me. i thank God you decided to type your thoughts!

I put up with this hideous relationship because I could not stand the thought of failure

just add "again", you got me. See, that's what's kept me hangin on, that damn damn 'again'.

at least my first wife had the decency to file for D when she was cheating.

how fuking sad is that?
lol!

instead, it takes a 50 buck motel6 room to shake me from some 13 month-long struggle.
13 months for one of the dull knives in the drawer to finally get it.

good news. i'm meeting with L for lunch tomorrow. always feel better after talking w/him - he, i - think he's putting up w/ an N too!

(no, not that everything's gotta be a nail! you kwim!)

& ron
It's unimaginaeable that [[[the bullshit]]]] was not obviously abusive to me.

for me, i think i will be forever humbled - & in some folks' lexicon it's 'stronger & wiser' -

for just fukin missing that too.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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