FNF, like you i always put my own needs last or denied them all together and like you my D is also 24, a woman yet still a girl, she adores her dad and doesn't know about his LTA but if she did it would be to me she would bring her hurt and anger because she has the security of knowing i would never fail her..it's safe to be angry with me. Perhaps your D is simply doing what i'm guessing she's always done..expecting mom to make it better.
No matter how good a dad our H's were , kids know we always put them first. My H is truly suffering now for what he did , esp to our D even tho she doesn't know, it's been the hardest thing for him to face. In the beginning of this he said once " i would've given my life for her " To which i replied " yes, of course, but you weren't willing to live your life for her"
Not one of my finer moments. It broke him. (((hugs FNF)))
In the beginning of this he said once " i would've given my life for her " To which i replied " yes, of course, but you weren't willing to live your life for her"
You're a strong, loving wonderful lady. And I know I'm proud to know you.
I don't think the PTSD therapy could hurt. If you're talking about EMDR or even the more traditional methods for addressing it. And they might help a lot.
But if you are anything like me, the issues actually went a lot deeper than just the A and its impact. My IC saw that right away, and at some level I guess I knew it, too.
I had given up too much of myself to the people around me. I did for everyone else and never myself. I had few boundaries and people took advantage. Obviously my husband, but others too. And I allowed, hell I even wanted, it. It felt like my place in the world, to be doing for other people and allowing myself to become smaller and smaller with each passing year.
I found out I had a lot of screwy beliefs buried deep inside me that were controlling the way I lived without my even knowing it. The IC helped me dig those out and change them. She literally helped me build a new belief system about the world, and she helped me become someone I have confidence in. Someone who can make herself feel safe in the world.
I never realized I had such little faith in myself, or such unhealthy beliefs about my place in the world until we began to pick them apart. And I had no idea what healthy beliefs existed to replace them with. That's what my IC helped me to find. She was like the maitre d' at a healthy smorgasbord, pointing out the wide array of good beliefs available and urging me to choose the ones that worked best for me.
So, anyway, I think your instinct to go back to IC is a good one. You deserve a life free from those fears. As someone who shared many of them, I can tell you that such a life is very possible.
In the beginning of this he said once " i would've given my life for her " To which i replied " yes, of course, but you weren't willing to live your life for her"
MIG, I'd say that was a hell of a moment. As clear and honest as you are likely to see.
I can imagine any of us here who havent thought those thoughts.In the quiet of the night.
My IC has started EMDR with me. Like BT said, we have some deeply ingrained (mis) beliefs about ourselves, and its only when we dig deeper, that we get to realise the, challenge them, and then with help, dismiss them.
I wonder if your DDs email, touched one of those (mis)beliefs about yourself...which is why you felt it so strongly?
He went to IC, who now encourages him to take antideps...which he still doesnt want to.
Then he says that they spoke about what may have caused his depression...and what does he tell me? That she feels that is must be really hard for him to live with all these rules of R, and all the times I beat him up, make him feel like evrything he does is wrong and that he is not good at anything..just makes it much worse.
So I said, but what caused the depression...which has been going on for years...prob before we even got together? HE says the above again.and throws in as a sidenote, "oh and maybe my past is catching up one me."
This man is blaming me for his depression. My rules and the way I behave. Has caused his deprssion. This is what he has done form early on in the M.Blame EVERYBODY but himself. And she seems to be buying it.
And then when I am trying to talk to him calmy, he is busy typing away on his laptop, I get annoyed , he gets upset, says that my problem is that I want to fix him whether he wants to or not (AHA moment!!), And i see it as trying to help him.
So I said my days of rescuing you are long over. I can only save myself. And my kids. And it seems like the best thing for you in your life, would be to get D'd, live your own life, answrable to noone; do wtf you want, have no responisbilyt, and thats its depression over!
Fuck fuck fuck
I thought i could handle this. but no. i cant. I am not better than this. I am not bigger than this. I am not stronger than this.
I just cant do this.
I know. I suck.
That she told him that he hadnt properly grieved for out=r baby.
He told her that I did all the crying/talking/reading/support stuff, but he did nothing.
Where the f does he get off talking about MY baby??
He was too busy trying to get laid with OW#1 the whole pg,which he would have accomplished the first time around but I inconveneicned them by finding out and going into preterm labour with my first pg whch mean t that they had to go underground.
My seocnd pg..he wasnt there except to make the baby.
I think the problem is this: He is seeing a FEMALE counselor. And, he is able to snow her the same as he snowed you.
They only tell what they want the counselor to hear. I highly doubt he has been completely honest and up front with her. Because she is a woman. And, they work the women counselors, the same as they work their wives.
When we go for counseling, we go with an open heart, open mind, reveal all and hope for the best. Most men do not do this. And, they have a tendancy to "leave out" anything that makes them out to be the bad guy.
And, don't take that crap for one minute about you being the reason for his problems. He has to own them and grow from them. They are not yours to fix, own, help with. We have enough to do!
Read this over and over, hon-
You don't suck, sweetie. You are just trying your best to move forward just like the rest of us. Be gentle with yourself.
Just wanted to echo what the other wise ones here have said. But also I just wanted to point out that you are only hearing from HIM what his IC has told him- second-hand. When my H was early in his IC (and he only went for about six months) he used to communicate things that were said by the counselor that were "slanted" by him, shall we say. My H used some of the things the IC said as a "defense".. But I was able to call his bullshit b/c his IC later also became our MC. I saw she called him out on his issues- and I realized that he had been perhaps misrepresenting what he "heard" from her through his own filter.
Now, if she's really playing into him and he has her snowed- that's another story. And I don't know how you'd get him out of that situation and with a better counselor. Are you guys in MC? Seriously, in MC there is a more level playing field (hopefully)...
You know he's full of shit, and if his counselor said that to him then she is full of shit, too. I somehow doubt she did, but it's not impossible. There are lots of really crappy ICs out there.
My H fired an IC after a couple months of seeing him and me going to have a chat with him. He had no conception of the enormity of my husband's betrayal and no desire to understand it. So, he was out the door.
I'm sure your H's life is difficult right now, how could it not be? Consequences for crappy behavior always come eventually and his are coming now. I feel for him, to some extent, but he can't get out of it by blaming someone else. He needs to take responsibility for himself, just as you are doing for yourself. Getting through this with him owning his own choices in brining himself here is essential. Either that or he can keep running and blameshifting forever, but it's a crappy way of life.
This is part of knowing what's yours and what's his. No matter what he is saying, or his counselor is saying, you know his feelings/actions/thoughts are his responsibility, not yours. Don't accept it.
ETA, apology for being vulgar. No other phrase seemed to fit the bill.
[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 4:52 PM, May 22nd (Thursday)]
First of all FNF, you have written a list that we all carry. Our Sís had that something in them that allowed them to do what they did, despite the probable consequences. We are bound to question our judgement; we placed our trust and faith in our Sís only to find they were robbing us blind. Which is why I say to myself that if H chooses to lie about where he is and who he is seeing, he is lying to himself. I donít believe a word that leaves his lips. And that includes the ILYís. Like the song, ďAnd don't tell me you're sorry coz you're not, baby when I know you're only sorry you got caughtĒ. Yep. I was never supposed to know or get hurt and somehow that adds to the sense of being insignificant because I obviously didnít really matter.
" i would've given my life for her " To which i replied " yes, of course, but you weren't willing to live your life for her" Not one of my finer moments. It broke him.
LostH, sweetie. 2x4ís? What for? Do not let him put the blame for his faults on you. The Aís were his choices and you were not involved in his decision making. He doesnít want you to try and fix him or to rescue him, he needs to do that by himself. He wants you there to tell him heís doing okay and that youíre really pleased that he is able to get something from his IC. (Even if he is twisting what actually happened, which is my guess.) Maybe you shouldnít discuss IC sessions unless something has come up that could be beneficial if it is talked about. I think broknhearted has a point. Unfortunately male counsellors seem to be few and far between. For now though, you carry on dealing with you. Been into Waterstones and browsed that book yet?
BT. I just LOVE your words of wisdom. Talking the desperate down from the ledge. So a big thanks. (((BT)))
A day off work. Wow. I have never appreciated time alone as I do now.I think I am off to the hairdressers today.Its been a long time since I have done that.
I know my H is full of shit(no offense taken, BT. He would say the same about himself in his more lucid moments).
Its just hard hearing this,(that I am responsible for all his troubles) when its what I have been hearing for years and believing.I dont believe that so much anymore, but its still quite a deeply held misbelief, that I will hopefully get rid off one day.
Re. his IC. I dont know her, I dont know if thats what she is really saying, or if thats what he is just chosing to hear. However, I do know and trust my IC, and she is the one who recommended H's IC. She felt that a male IC would get nowhere with H. He is more likely to respond to a female IC. His previous IC was male, and according to H, they just didnt click. My IC thinks he wouldnt have clicked with any male IC. So I am trusting her on this...
And to be fair to H's IC: she has helped him make more changes in the time he has been with her, then I thought possible.So something is working...
SoLost, re my baby.
Please note: the following turned out to be more emotional and sad then i thought, so please dont read, if you are NOT in a good place today. Honour yourself first.
After DS#1 was born, H and my relationship became v strained, in the wake of the allegations of his relationship with OW#1.A part of me died then, and although I was still the loving caring wife, it was not the same. Add that to the fact, that he continued to be friends with OW and OWH, and it was all very awkward as I was the bad guy now, and they all treated me as such.
I finally convinced H to move back to our hometown.He found a new job. He was not happy. His perfect life had been broken, and he became v miserable.And he made it known to all. Our families couldnt understand it. On the outside we appeared to have it all. So why was he so unhappy?
Unbeknown to me, OW and her family followed us 3 months later, settling down 20 minute drive from our home, and they resumed their affair.
That year, I threw him a huge surprise 30th bday party.I tried so hard to make him happy,to my detriment.
We had reached a stalemate in our M. I just didnt know how to make things better. I gave him all the time he wanted for himself. He did what he wanted, when he wanted. He was rude and obnoxious to our families.He was incredibly arrogant and sat high on his pedastal. I ran around trying to soothe feathers.
A part of me must have seen that I need to do something to save myself, so I began looking to going back to uni to do a postgrad degree.
Then I fell pg.It wasnt planned but welcome all the same.Maybe this is what our family needed?
However, from the onset the pg was difficult. At the end of the first trimester, I started experiencing contractions, and spent the rest of the pg in and out of hospital, I was put on steriods and medication to stop the contractions. I did everything that was asked.By now H had switched us off, and was living in his own world.
When I was about 35 weeks pg, I contacted the ob/gyn, as I was feeling weird. Baby had hardly moved, and I just didnt feel right. Scans showed nothing abnormal.His heartbeat awas fine. So obgyn asked me if I thought that the baby should be born because from their side, he looked fine, but if I was still feeling weird, then what did I want to do. I didnt know. Till now, I cant believe that they left that decision to me. Can you imagine lying there, your family and the obgyn standing around your bed, asking you whether or not baby should be born. WTF did I know about this?
So I opted for him not to be born, and was told to monitor his movements that night. I spent most of teh night awake, ticking every time he moved. Next morning, I counted the ticks, and it didnt seem enough. And I was still feeling weird.
We called the dr who said he would meet us at the hospital. We got there a bit late, so he was not impressed.Anyway, we now discover that baby's heartbeat had slowed down quite a bit. The next moments are a blur. I have tried and tried to remember but I just cant. I know H had left to repark the car, and as soon as the staff saw baby's heartbeat, everything happened at once. I was told that he is in distress and needed to come out now. I wwas rushed to theatre. I think they must have sedated me very heavily cos I remember struggling to wake up throuhg the whole process. All I remember is the nest minute I heard baby cry, and then I was out. Next thing I wake up in the room and asked for the baby. Was told that he wasnt feeling too good, so they would keep him in an incubator.
I didnt worry too much, as DS1 had to be put in an incubator too as he had been too cold. I must have been kept sedated cos I remember drfiting in and out of consciousness that whole day and night. I ahd also lost alot of blood and nneded transfusion. Next morning I woke up, all tubed up and threw a hissy fit. I wanted to see my baby now, and I threatened to pull out all the tubes myself, if they didnt. So off I went in a wheelchair, my tubes alla round me. They didnt want me to see him, esp alone. But I held on.
I remember him lying there in that lttle bed, tubes and wires coming out from everywhere. He looked so different from DS#1. All i was allowed to do was poke my finger through a hole to touch him. Even then, I had no idea how bad it was. Noone told me.I just sat touching him with my finger until I almost fainted and they put me back to bed.
Sometime that afternoon, I woke up, and a dr told me that he was going to operate on my baby and would do his best. It didnt sink in what he he was saying, and I was asleep again. I later found out that he was the paediatric cardiac surgeon.
At 11pm, I was awoken by nurses (they had refused for me to see him again and I was by then too weak to fight)and told that I should go to my baby. They removed all my tubes, and i was free to walk. H walked in then saying that he had been called as well. Thinking that we were finally allowed to bring him up to my room, I was so eager to go there but almost balcked out again, and was put in a wheelchair. We found him in the incubator still, and H and I sat there with him, talking about his future; what we were going to call him; how DS#1 was so excited to be getting abrother. Just talking. NO ONE told me that this was bad.That this was the last moments. Suddenly thre was a large beep, and he flatlined. It was 3 am.I was shocked. What was going on? I called the nurse (H said I screamed at her) to fix the machine; she came over, turned it off and said that she was sorry. I knew then what she meant, but I didnt know. No. It wasnt true. I think I must have started screaming or crying, cos I remember them trying to hold me down and all I wanted to do was run. I pulled away ran outside, where my mum and the rest of the family were waiting. I ran to her begging them to make it better. The next time I saw my baby was at his funeral when I was allowed to hold him for the last time for a few minutes. He was wearing the outfit and shawl I had bought him.
his funeral was held the same day. The dr didnt want me to leave the hospital, I threw ups such a fuss, selfdischarged and went home to find cars lining the driveway and road...people had come for the funeral.
It was all so quick yet lasted forever.He was so small. and perfect. my baby.
i later found out that he had had a congenital condtion called primary pulmonary hypertension. the op had went well, but he had contracted a simple strp b infection , which led to organ failure.
He would have been 10 years old this year.
When I am feeling selfish and wish that he was here still, I have to remind myself what life he wold have had, had he survived.Children with this condition dont live past their teens.And had he lived, he would have spent his childhood connected to an oxygen tank, in and out of hospital.
It took me a long time to make peace with the fact that I wasnt to blame for his death.
At his funeral, I overheeard MIL say that she didnt know what I had done, to deserve this(implying that I had done something bad and was now getting paid).
I overheard another lady say that she didnt understand why I was so upset,it wasnt as if I had known him that long.
Both these women had lost their sons when they were little to illnesses.Both these women had second sons with whom I had been involved with. I married H, and my first love and bf was the other lady's son when were 16.
So I can understand that they both had some anger issues with me. But still.
I know my baby is in a better place. I just wonder if he knows how much I love him. I wonder if he knows how sorry I am that I never got to carry him or feed him whilst he was alive. I wonder if he has forgiven me.
Thank you for letting me have this say here.
I have cried and cried writing this.
I thought that this was something H and I shared. Knowing that the whole time, he was still involved with OW#1...esp after knowing that their relationship sent me into preterm labour with DS#1 whom we almost lost.
And the way he treated me during the pg,and after...
I can only hope that this was not borne out of cruelty and evil, but of a deeply saddened and broken man.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
What a horrible experience. I am so sorry for your suffering, and even sorrier for your loss.