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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess we oldies to this thread are out in force today.

No question..his 8 years of the A, second D-day and the subsequent almost 2 more years of uneven denial/ownership left me in a place of utter deflation.

It was only when I looked at who I was and who I was going to stay being...that the awareness of personal choice became real to me.

As I tried to say earlier...there is no magic panacea for feeling stuck and hopeless by someone else's pattern and mindset. No absolute book, tape, therapist, whatever, that will do the job effectively if we ourselves don't allow room for change....change in ourselves.

LTA's are brutal...but even more brutal is allowing it to discredit and disconnect who we are going to be in the future.

Happy Mother's Day to All.


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Run - I hope that I have not upset you with my post. I was very concerned when I read yours that I had upset you and this would be the last thing I would want to do. You know I wouldn't want to do that to any of us on here it's just that I struggle so much with the doubt that I now have a result of years of my H's betrayal.
Do any of you think your Hs are cheating and lying right now?

This is my problem right here. I honestly believe that the number of years my H betrayed me make it very difficult to trust him today. He tries very hard to give me assurances, he accounts for his time away, he tells me frequently that he could never hurt me like this again and I want so much to believe him but the fear is still there. AND IT SUCKS to live like this for both of us. So please know that I am speaking only of my own situation because of all those years of lies when I say that I will only gradually over time allow myself to begin to trust again. Again, please accept my heartfelt apology if anything I posted upset or triggered you. I am deeply sorry. (((RUN)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf, what do you think?

LH - I think your H gave you a beautiful gift. How wonderful that you were able to have such an important discussion with no emotional interference. I love these discussions and even though your Mother's Day was several weeks ago, think of this as an additional day to celebrate you and your family. Love you, LH!


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF:

Wasn't your H the one who just tagged you with that zinger about not being alone long if you all split up? Do I remember that right?

Of course you couldn't trust him if he is still doing things like that. He's telling you not to trust him, that he is not committed fully or 100 percent there. Or at least he's telling you that he wants you to believe that he is not, and that he is willing to use that as a means of control.

When it comes to any joint enterprise, you can't do anything unilaterally. What he does affects you and vice versa.

However, I think you are living in the now more than you give yourself credit for. I think you do enjoy lots about your life and are choosing to do that more every day.

I think I am doing that, too, but I want to get better at it. So I'll give the books a read. I don't think I've ever read a book that hurt me. I've rejected some of people's ideas pretty completely, but simply seeing someone else's viewpoint or learning what I can from them has only ever helped.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do I remember that right?

Yes, BT, that was my H's lovely remark. It is exactly the kind of thing that keeps me in a protective mode. The trick then is to hopefully see these kinds of remarks and behaviors lessening over time.
You are right though in that I am enjoying so many aspects of my life and in that way I do live in the now and don't let my H's insensitivity spoil the goods times that come my way.
And maybe that is what Run's message is really all about.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
So Lost
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Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH, I am so thrilled you all had a good heart to heart conversation. Sounds like it really felt good! I hope my H someday has some sort of insight in to what he has done. At this point he just shrugs and says he doesn't know why.

Well, I was suppose to have breakfast in bed today,. But the kids didn't wake anyone up when they got up and then I got up before H. He came down when the kids told him I was opening my card saying get back in bed for breakfast. I laughed and said it was fine. But I wish he would have gotten up early to make sure, you know? Anyway, I got a dozen roses, some fabulous cards form the kids, both homemade and store bought, and some lovely coupons for hugs and dishes done and such. Also, a beautiful diamond heart necklace. It's gold though and I think I will take it back t get white gold. But I do love it and it was very thoughtful of H. His card was very sweet and sentimental. Then we took his mom out to lunch and he went to work and now to my mom's for dinner. Good day.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
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Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You are right though in that I am enjoying so many aspects of my life and in that way I do live in the now ...And maybe that is what Run's message is really all about.

Fnf, you are one of the most awesome women here (whom I have yet to meet!),and a shining example to people like me. Love you too.

And as like BT wisely pointed out, how can you get to a safe place in your M when your H throws out whoppers like that. I remember how terribly hurt you were when he said that, and its not the last time either. I also think he uses it as a defense mechanism, as you once thought. The old, "I will hurt you first before you hurt me". If only he realised the damage those comments cause.

(((FNF)))

****
Hey SoLost. Glad the day went well. The trick is not to notice too hard what they didnt do, but focus on what they DID do. He is not going to get all the boxes ticked for a long time, but sounds like he is giving it a good try. Wel done to you both.

***
BT

He surprised you, didn't he?
How do you feel now?

You asked....horny!

Honestly, that was such a turn on, and if I hadnt been feeling so ill...

I felt good. Calm. At peace. If we can talk like this more often....imagine what this M might turn out yet to be.

One thing I said to him did make him feel very sad though...but he asked and I had to be honest. I told him that I dont think that I could ever forgive him, that what he put me through the whole M was, I have concluded unforgiveable. That I had spent the alot of time since dday 1 and then dday2 trying to figure out these LTAs, how he did what he did, the OW, and I have turned it round and round like a Rubiks cube, but at some point, I realised that I was chasing something (forgiveness) that I in all good conscience to myself, could not bestow. I thought that I needed to forgive him to carry on with the M, but I realised that they were 2 different things. I realised that I could not forgive him for the past and have accepted that, but I believe that we can go on to build a good M regardless.

That I also realised that everything didnt have to be perfect..that there was no such thing. I also realised that whilst he will not be able to tick all my boxes of a good H (and vice versa), I will no longer accept the minimum like I did before, and I dont expect him too either.Got alot out too, didnt I? lol.

I know he is sad about the forgiveness part, and I wish I could have said different, but I just cant...and I am ok with that. I hope he will be too one day.

((((LTA Tribe))))


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
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Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:56 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The forgiveness thing may not be a done deal yet, Lost.

I didn't even think about forgiving because I was absolutely sure I couldn't and really didn't even want to.

And then I realized after about 2.5 years of a very remorseful and changed husband that I had forgiven him without even trying or realizing it. Obviously, we're all different and you may never forgive or even want to, but don't be surprised if you end up doing it despite yourself.

Happy mother's day, all.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
forgivenotforget
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Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 4:18 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You asked....horny!
Really good one, LH! What a laugh I had with that one. This is one where everyone wins.
So for Mother's Day my H fixed a lovely dinner and is now, as I post, doing the dishes. Gotta love that! So, even though I'm not quite at the horny phase due to a bit too much wine, I will "reward" him once my buzz has passed!
I love you all and honestly feel so grateful for having known you even if just in cyberspace.
ETA - LH - I have to agree with BT on the forgiveness thing - I'm betting that if your H continues down the current road of being open and vulnerable you will find it very easy to forgive. It is my sincerest hope for you both.
SoLost, what a lovely Mother's Day your H gave you. Well done, Mr. SL!

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 4:20 PM, May 11th (Sunday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
canIdothis?
Member
Member # 19281
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IT was so strange to look at this thread and read the discussion of the Power of Now. That book is sitting on the couch next to me. My WH's friend gave it to him after he revealed his affair to him. I haven't read much of it, but i think a lot of it makes sense in less hurtful situations, but I have a difficult time translating it to where I am (newbie, so that is one reason why). I hope to get there one day...

My husband is loving the book but what trouble's me is that I don't want my WH to find peace yet. I want him to have the negative feelings of guilt and remorse. Does it make sense that I feel this gives him an excuse not to deal with what he did? Help me with this one. I just want to make sure when he is living in the Now he is not thinking about her!


D-Day: April 19, 2008
Reconciling, slowly but surely

Posts: 200 | Registered: Apr 2008
river of tears
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Member # 14502
Helpless  Posted: 5:11 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been here for a year now and I've never posted much because my situation is so complicated, that I just didn't want to explain it all. And when I do reply to a post it seems to always be a thread breaker, but I really need help.

D-day was June '06, although I was suspicious for 3 months before I found the DAMNING text messages. I've been in IC for 2 years and I didn't know about SI until last May. My H has been in IC longer due to a near breakdown when his business partnership broke up in late '04. Within 6 months, my H & I went into business partnership with woman who would become OW . She was good friends with our family, doing well financially and willing and able to fund the business. Maybe she already had her eye on him, who knows? She was clearly unhappily married to a really crazy bipolar guy for the last 30 years & didn't have much of a life. She seemed to envy our marriage, because we shared so much.
We also have a 20 year old severely disabled son, our only child.

About 6-8 months after D day we did the MC thing which helped for a while, at least established that we both wanted to make a go of it, but the MC was too young & didn't really have enough life experience for our complex situation. Also H doesn't want to end affair, instead he wants to blame me for not giving him enough attention since son came into our life.
Now she is divorcing, although he has made it clear that he absolutely will ever leave son and me, but he also wants to eat cake while I take care of making life work for son, home etc.

I have always known that I was less dependent on him emotionally and could survive on my own. I spoke to a lawyer a month ago, but filing for divorce will cost a $5,000. retainer. Money I don't have and no hope to get. We've spent all of our savings on new business effort, which OW still contributes to financially. I decided to wait and see. We are planning to move to smaller house and I have decided that is the time to make break if I need to.

Last week after his IC, H asked me if I wanted to find another MC to work with. I asked him what was the point. Why go through more of that BS, if he didn't make changes. He replyed that he thought we should try to salvage our marriage.

So... it's Mothers day today. It had been a pretty good one. He took me to dinner last night, bought me beautiful roses, a nice book, beautiful poetic card ( he can be very romantic , more than me).
Then the other shoe dropped. I found gift and even more romantic card that H bought for OW.

I feel just like I did on D day, like I'm free falling through space. I know affair is not over but even though we have no real ground rules he's seeing less of her and their relationship is very strained for many reasons. I really thought there was hope and that it was nearly over.

I really want to make an effort to save marriage, at least for my son's sake, but it 's just a constant heart ache.

How do you survive a spouses LTA.? Just when I think we've reached a more positive place, she pops up again.

I'm really discouraged. Any advice out there?

[This message edited by river of tears at 9:29 AM, May 12th (Monday)]


Posts: 365 | Registered: May 2007
So Lost
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Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((River of tears)))) I am only 6 months out from dday, so I don't know how qualified I am to give advise. And to be honest, I just have come to learn that you never know how you will react in a situation. I say that I would ever stay if he was still seeing her but you know, you do the best you can at the time. There needs to be some changes for your marriage to R, that I know for sure. He is cake eating and getting away with it. He needs to establish NC immediately and then he has a chance to save his marriage. I'm sure the others have some great advise for you but I think that needs to be the first thing. Good luck!


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This concept of living in the now simply is not possible close to dday as our entire world has disinegrated and we don't know what "now" is. It takes months/years to rebuild our "now" and have confidence that it is real.
Um...I know that. I did say "not newbies", did I not? There is simply no way for someone new to this (and I do agree with no mor that it takes over a year to even digest this) to live in the present and not worry or fear the future. In no way did I mean to imply that you should have d-day and put it behind you because it is in the past, and I think those who have been here with me from the beginning are very aware of that. I am very well versed in the suffering a BS goes through in the first year, or even the first two years after discovery of an LTA. I would NEVER assume someone could live in the "now" while enduring that much pain. I just don't believe that's possible.

I am suggesting the book to those further out who (like me) keep the "box" open

Run, I am really, really sorry. I did not mean that you suggested it to us (the newbies) in fact, I remembered you saying it wasn't for us. And my take on toxic people is not just for the LTAs but everyone. Please forgive me for even trying to suggest that I can explain a book I haven't read.

Today was our anniversary and is mother's day. The girls, as usual, were amazing with the 12 year old creating a power point presentation that brought me to tears. When I was in Florida a few weeks ago, H took them to a clay studio where they all make plates for me that were fired and glazed. They are so great these girls.

So to all here, Happy Mother's Day.

I will catch up more in the a.m.....

HS

p.s. Run, I'm really sorry


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:41 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really want to make an effort to save marriage, at least for my son's sake,

River - welcome. I am sorry you find yourself here. But, your quote above says it all. YOU cannot save your marriage. YOU and your WH who is NC with the OW can save your marriage. If he wants to do this, he must commit to NC and to your boundaries. I am sorry you find yourself here. Don't allow him to eat cake.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
25wimsey
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Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 6:47 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

River, the advice from SoLost and Shirley is spot on--you can't have a real marriage as long as your H is still cheating. Does he not see this?

Surviving an LTA is a long term thing, with multiple ups and downs, many changes for each person, and not really survivable unless the infidelity is stopped and there is no personal contact with OW. Have you read in the Healing Library, especially about the 180?

Good luck--so sorry you're going through this. Keep reading and posting!


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
river of tears
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Member # 14502
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have told him that I cannot continue to live like this and he says he'll do whatever it takes.
But he's clearly not really ready to take that step.
My therapist who has been in practice for many years (also does MC s well as IC) says it one of the biggest messes he's ever dealt with.

Isn't that just wonderful!!!

[This message edited by river of tears at 10:07 PM, May 11th (Sunday)]


Posts: 365 | Registered: May 2007
snowbaby796
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Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 11:09 PM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Mother's Day!

About living in the now, this applies to not living in the future as well as the past I think. Really looking at your life as it is now, not the way it was in the past and not what we hope it maybe could be one day if... (fill in the blank)
I've been hanging on to a marriage that is not working because of the hope maybe one day he might... but he never does. I just have to face it and accept it.

River, your WH is still continuing the affair and telling you let's go to MC to salvage the marriage? How does he plan on salvaging the marriage if she is still in the picture? What is he offering you? You and your happiness matter too! This doesn't sound like a good deal for you.

weepy, do you think your WH might resist affection and sex with you because you ask and are needy and it gives him a sense of power to deny you? I've been having these thoughts about my WH that he is such a damaged person that the more I tell him something hurts me or bothers me or makes me feel unloved, the more he seems to do it. Like it makes him feel powerful and in control to cause me pain. Like a bully. Hurting others makes him feel powerful and better because he feels so bad.

Then I think I should stop spending time trying to figure out why my WH is so dysfunctional and put all that time energy and effort in to me and my happiness.


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
weepy
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Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 6:13 AM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do any of you think your Hs are cheating and lying right now?

Cheating no. Lying yes and has been caught. But it's the sideways anger that's destroying us. And even reviewing it with my IC Friday night that's all I could say.. it's just so damn negative around my house, it's even harder to pull out of the mistrust. He was like that during his A time...he began being like that during his A time. Nothing pleased him, he was miserable and that in itself is a trigger, never mind the words he's actually saying.

Of course you couldn't trust him if he is still doing things like that. He's telling you not to trust him, that he is not committed fully or 100 percent there. Or at least he's telling you that he wants you to believe that he is not, and that he is willing to use that as a means of control.

I told fnf the other day that I'm sure my H would have a replacement within weeks. It's the anger. They say these things to hurt us, maybe even to drive us further away because they know we know who they are, what they did and their primary reaction is to flee. They know they can't, really don't want to, so they push us away. I'm convinced my H thinks that's what he deserves, that's the appropriate punishment, he deserves to lose everything and probably won't be at peace until it happens. Then he'll be able to sit back and say "I went to counseling for 2 yeas and nothing I did was good enough for her anyway. He gets what he wants and he gets me to be the bad guy" because he'll tell everyone that he NEVER wanted me to leave, that he apologized and maybe even show a few crocodile tears in the telling. But in the end, he'll think it's fair and that will satisfy him.

weepy, do you think your WH might resist affection and sex with you because you ask and are needy and it gives him a sense of power to deny you? I've been having these thoughts about my WH that he is such a damaged person that the more I tell him something hurts me or bothers me or makes me feel unloved, the more he seems to do it. Like it makes him feel powerful and in control to cause me pain. Like a bully. Hurting others makes him feel powerful and better because he feels so bad.

snow, it's a theory. But it's so damn convoluted... He wants me to say what I want and then refuses to give it to me. If I don't say anything, he accuses me of keeping things from him and "how are we supposed to solve the problem if you wont't tell me what it is."

IC told me on Friday that he may be even worse right now because he's being told he's not performing at work, and I'm telling him he's not performing at home either.

She asked me if the affairs hadn't happened and we were in this situation, would I be more tolerant of his attitude? And of course I would. When he got like this right after OW died, we'd had such open communication for the year before that the minute he said or did something PA, I would tell him "I don't know what your problem is, but it's not about me, so when you're ready to discuss whatever it is, calmly, let me know." I told that very thing to DS this weekend. His father was on him about everything (and the kid just came home from college THAT DAY). I told him to repeat in his brain "this is not about me, whatever is bothering him, it's not me>"

The problem is that the negativity is so overwhelming, the weight of it is hard to throw off.

river, I'm sorry to see you here again. I'm sure it's just your bad luck that threads end at your post. Really, there's no thread killer curse.

Everyone is right... if the OW is still in your life, 15 marriage counselors won't solve the issue.

For your son's sake, go 180 on his ass, NC until "she's" gone. There's no other way. He'll continue to put 10% effort into your M until you do.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
snowbaby796
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Member # 13882
Default  Posted: 6:33 AM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

weepy when we are trying to deal with WH who just are not logical, whose behavior makes no sense, and no matter how hard we try they keep changing the rules, I just don't see how we can win this fight. It seems like a way to control you and make him feel in control and powerful.

He wants me to say what I want and then refuses to give it to me. If I don't say anything he accuses me of keeping things from him and "how are we supposed to solve the problem if you won't tell me what it is"

It's like no matter what you do you can't win and he has all the power all the control. Which is sick and not helpful in any way to R or to a good marriage or a happy life. And you said he is doing it to the kids too, so you know it is not you but it still hurts you and affects you.

The thing I think we are both dealing with is emotionally messed up WH's who just aren't doing the work on themselves that needs to be done. How could we possibly have a good, happy healthy relationship if our WH's are so screwed up? If they don't really work on and solve their weird control PA issues, it will just come out in inappropriate ways over and over and over again. We just cannot reason with people who are not thinking logically and reasonably. And, in my case at least, I am exhausted from trying. Nothing i do ever works or is ever good enough there is always some reason or stipulation or excuse of why he doesn't do his part in our M and for R, and always because I didn't follow this rule or that rule of his. Last week it was if I just did this, do it and then this week it's well now that is the problem. I am so confused, and emotinally drained and do not care anymore.

WH new trick is to completely rewrite marital history to where he is the victim and I have wounded him so much emotionally what else could he do but have multiple LTA's? Usually tearing up and sniffling and going on and on about how much I hurt him, you know why? Because I did not have sex "enough". It was so traumatizing and painful that is the one and only reason he had multiple LTA's. And I guess I just need to accept resonsibility and do my best to make it up to him and then maybe he'll treat me a little less than horribly. Good deal, huh?


"Betrayal of yourself is still betrayal nonetheless, it is the highest betrayal" Neale Donald Walsch
"State the obvious I didn't get my perfect fantasy I realize you love yourself more than you could ever love me" Taylor Swift

Posts: 563 | Registered: Mar 2007
weepy
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Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:09 AM, May 12th (Monday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh snow, you know I know how you feel. I get the impression somehow that I'm supposed to be the grateful one... grateful he didn't leave when he had more than the opportunity, he had the "reasons". Yeah, I've heard it all. He rewrites the present.

Just the other day I told him my nieces' party was on the 24th, but the invitation that came said the 31st and I must have appeared confused. I know I was angry because I know she told me the 24th. H says "you must have been mistaken about the date". No, I know I wasn't "mistaken" about the date. So I pick up the phone and like 15 seconds later my brother confirms that it WAS the 24th, but they changed it. I turned to my H and said to my brother "SO, I wasn't "mistaken" about the date." I get off the phone and he says he never said that.

My first IC just told me to center myself and calm myself by reminding me that I knew what was real and what wasn't. But it didn't help. How could he and I EVER reach the same path our MC keeps talking about if he thinks he's on one and I'm on another.

I just don't know how to present this to MC this week... something like... "we're miserable." He's angry and snide all the time, he picks fights, then gets upset when I fight back. He criticizes and then wonders why I get hurt. He avoids me physically and sexually and then says it's my fault for not being more affectionate to him... I can't remember the last time he initiated a hug, a kiss, or even said anything positive. Oh, but then he did say "happy mother's day".

I hope he calls and leaves me more snarky messages on my phone because I'll play them at MC. So she can hear his tone... the one he says he doesn't have.

Like you said, we're urged to do things for ourselves, then we get accused of being selfish. We take care of someone else, then we get accused of ignoring their needs. They say they love us and yet nothing we do is ever up to their standards.

My current IC says I'm going to have to leave if I'm ever going to get well. That or forgive him and what I see as being a doormat again, like he had before.

When we first talked about MC and IC, he was resistant because he'd been there before... his mother took him. He used to say the IC just told him he was fine and his mother was the reason for all his "troubles". So he got it reinforced, the lack of accountability, from a professional at like age 13. I think he's hearing the same thing from this IC, but it's NOT what he means.

I get what my IC means when she says I got this way because my parents raised me this way, but I'm not blaming them, I'm trying to fix it. To stop being a "pleaser", to build up the self-esteem they took from me and then he trampled.

I think they're angry deep inside and most of it is directed at themselves and that is uncomfortable to say the least. And they don't like discomfort.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
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