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User Topic: Long Term Affairs XI
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:17 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Snow, that was at the beginning of the book, explaining that, generally speaking, men fear looking like and feeling a failure and women fear being unloved or feeling they are not being listened to. It takes that as the start, a bit like Men are from Mars, and After the Affair. Making the point that there ARE differences between men and women and how they deal with “problems”. Areas like communication can be successfully targeted, but not if the man feels he is being attacked or overly criticised. I think I’ve just expressed it badly.

"How To Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" by Patricia Love and Steven Stosny

No mor - I think this is the same book. The subtitle on mine says “How to improve your relationship without discussing it”. Does it sound the same? Got some questionnaires inside. I’ve just finished “the silent male”.

It’s not suggesting being a Stepford Wife. That was “The Rules”. Now there was one for the bin. I thought it might help if I could do that 1950’s housewife thing. Turns out, I can’t. Bloody good job too!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 1:19 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lostsuol, so he’s read it twice, now he needs to let you have answers. Ask him if he would have it done by a certain date. You’re not rushing him, but you do need him to do it.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
no mor surprises
♀ Member
Member # 7678
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK, I think you expressed it well. I think that book could have helped alot before the a started. Before the a started, I had had it with h's immaturity and adhd behavior. I talked and talked to him about it and he always agreed with everything I said but he continued the behavior that was driving me crazy. Ofcourse he felt bad about my complaints, agreed to change but... And on the cycle went until little miss hot to trot told him that he was perfect and that I was just a mismatch for him. No excuse for the affair but a way to have some understanding.

As to NOW, I showed h my post. He reminded me (as if I did not know) that I did not always live in the now. I told him that what he said was true but that I tried to stay in the now but did slip up from time to time. And when I slip up, I go back into the hole of misery. I know that if I stay in the now, I can be happy but if I keep trying to change what can't be changed I will be miserable and crazy. And the serenity prayer is good for helping to stay in the now.

When I go into the hole of misery, sympathy and empathy help but then I need to get back on track. IMHO, it is helpful to vent and then when all is released to move on.

I would like to caution those who are far enough out to align themselves with those who will help you get back to and cope with reality rather than only spinning around and around trying to change the past. It is hard to be that person. IMHO, it is too easy for us to either only give 2x4's or just be overly sympathetic.

I have benefited from those who are sympathetic, who have been there, allow me a vent, but who are also trying their best to be in the now. Do I make any sense?

Blessings to all who are on this difficult journey. And a HUGE thanks to all of those who have been there for me and our lta tribe.

I showed h my post re NOW and he said that I don't always live in the NOW. I told him that I had to remind myself every day and that I do slip and go down the hole of terror of reliving the lta.


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So many posts to catch up on. It's been very busy here.
I am trying to think of how I want to respond to this idea of living in the now in a way that is not negative but realistic considering what we've all been through.
You see, I think the concept of living in the now is the ideal but our reality is that whatever we believed about our M and our H's "then" is "now" changed and that is the "now" I am personally struggling with.
Does this make sense??
I believed "then" that I had a H who loved me, was trustworthy, was someone who would never hurt me, who treasured our M and our family, and was someone I could trust my heart with.
I have now learned that none of what I believed then was true. Herein lies my (and possibly many others) dilemna.
After learning what we have now, learned, is it really possible or even wise to believe that our H's have dramatically changed and become new and improved trustworthy, loving, selfless, sensitive, caring spouses who now give us no reason whatsoever to doubt them?
When we have been betrayed to the extent that many in this LTA forum have, (my H's LTA included 8 years of deceit), how can we realistically now allow ourselves to put the past behind us? For me it is the struggle to come to terms with who my H really is NOW.
I'm sorry to be rambling and I'm even more sorry to be so negative about this but to me this concept in my personal situation seems an unsafe road to take at this time.
Don't get me wrong, in terms of many other aspects of my life I do live in the now and enjoy my life but in terms of my H, I live my life with caution hoping that he is in fact not the person he was for all of those years and that he is now someone I can again offer my heart too.
Any and all comments, especially those that might help me to take a different view are more than welcome.
On a lighter note, I'd like to wish all the mothers here a wonderful Mother's Day. It is our day to celebrate the good and the beautiful in our lives.

[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 2:53 PM, May 10th (Saturday)]


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:34 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been trying to keep up with all the discussion around "then" and "now" but I would like to offer an opinion. I have not read any of the books nor do I have any expertise in this area so laugh away!

This was said earlier but I think it is very important. This concept of living in the now simply is not possible close to dday as our entire world has disinegrated and we don't know what "now" is. It takes months/years to rebuild our "now" and have confidence that it is real.

The wrinkle in this time theory is that the path to rebuilding what is "real" is influenced by those around us - those we have allowed to stay in the "now" with us. At least in my case, it has been a very small subset of my prior life as I try to rebuild myself and my known world. Luckily for me, those few have been incredibly supportive in this process including my extremely remorseful H. He has worked incredibly hard on himself to understand the whys and hows and to work on becoming the man he always wanted to be. In addition, he has been there for me through my tears and my rages. He has reached out to people here to get suggestions on how to help me. This effort has made my path to rebuilding my reality steadier and, perhaps, quicker.

What I am hypothesizing is that those of us who are unfortunate to have toxic people/elements in their world that cannot be removed for whatever reason, have a longer path to recreating their reality because these individuals are undermining their effort. The toxic people undermine our ability to "know" that our "now" is real and safe. Therefore, it keeps sending us back into the "then" to try to find answers or a better reality - one that works under the necessity of having that person in our lives.

I know I am being very long-winded here but what I am trying to say is that any toxic element has the potential to destroy our ability to recreate a "now" that we want to live it. A "now" that is worth letting go of the pain and the hurt.

Does this make any sense at all? I think this is why each member here is in a different place of living in the now. Each of us has different dday, different WS, different abilities to take care of ourselves (older children, etc).

Alright, we are off to dinner soon.

Happy Mother's Day all....

(((((Tribe))))


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:55 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The toxic people undermine our ability to "know" that our "now" is real and safe. Therefore, it keeps sending us back into the "then" to try to find answers or a better reality - one that works under the necessity of having that person in our lives.

<<<<<clapping>>>>>
Thanks! Exactly! I can’t go on without that security. And so goodnight.

ETA and I can't spell and I can't do spaces. Need a third glass of wine??

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:02 PM, May 10th (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Congratulations Whimsey!
Wow, a new addition to the family.


****
Living in the now vs Living in the past.

Shirley, you are right....toxic people do make living in the now very difficult as they carry their past traits with them still. Like our drunken driver analogy who is still drinking every now and then, and expects us to feel safe in the car with him. Impossible. And very foolish of us if we did.


For me it is the struggle to come to terms with who my H really is NOW
.

I was thinking today why H would stay in this M. Yes, I know he loves me and the kids, and its the right thing to do. BUT for a man who has spent his whole adult life doing the wrong thing (but hidden of course), is it really possible for him to walk the straight and narrow, and not miss the old life. You see, the only main thing he misses now about the As, are the highs that he got. He likened it to an addiction. You know its bad, even dangerous, for you,and you might never want to get addicted again, but you still miss it.You can crave it (just the highs)but know that having it will cost too much, so you dont give in.

And I just felt so sad that I will never be a high for him; that having mine and the kids love and oneday respect, will not make that craving go away.Or will it? And I know that its not about any specific OW but the whole danger/thrill/excitement of it. The ducking and diving and having someone hot for you , who doesnt HAVE to be like your W.

Will he carry this for the rest of his life? As a FBS, how will this affect me, knowing that my addict H is constantly exposed to potential addictions?

Sorry to be such a downer, but I would appreciate any thoughts on this.

Fnf, looks like we are in a similar boat with this.

***

Ukg, thanks for opening up. Spent some time at A&E, but they reckon nothings wrong with me, and to go home and rest. I feel like crap. Arrggghhh.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Fnf, looks like we are in a similar boat with this.

Well LH, I was beginning to think I was out here all alone. Not that I'm not happy for those who are able to live in the now, I just wish I knew how to feel safe letting go of the then.
My H has also said that a lot of the attraction was the 'getting away with something' thrill of it all. If you could see the pictures of the OW you would know that it wasn't about her - she was a total beast. Ask Weepy - she saw her pictures.
So it had to be the thrill or the addiction for excitement, of being "naughty" as he has said. And like you said, if that addiction still exists but they are determined not to give into it in the future, how can they convince us that they have the strength to overcome it again.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would like to echo FNF's thought:
On a lighter note, I'd like to wish all the mothers here a wonderful Mother's Day. It is our day to celebrate the good and the beautiful in our lives.

One of the things that kept me going during the aftermath of this LTA crap was my beautiful living children. I have an angel baby in heaven-my only son. But today another mom friend of mine who had already lost a baby girl to still birth buried her 2 1/2 year old son. He was diagnosed with brain cancer two months ago and it was inoperable. Going to the service today reminded me of the beautiful in life. Even though we've been robbed of having a faithful spouse, sometimes appreciating those things in life that are beautiful like our children helps with our healing.

Peace to all.

Heartbroken


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:10 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HB - I am so sorry for your friend's loss and your own. That has to be the most difficult thing for anyone to experience. My thoughts and prayers to you and your friend.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hearbroken
Member
Member # 8317
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, FNF.....

This thread is full of *amazing* women and you are definetly one of them. I hope your day is wonderful and lovely tomorrow

HB


Dday1 8/05 (LTA)
Dday2 4/09 (online EA 2 weeks then confessed)
Dday 3 8/10 ("full disclosure" of more infidelity prior to 2009)

Posts: 869 | Registered: Sep 2005
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 8:38 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, HB i am so sorry for your friends loss as well as yours. How terribly painful. It's sad it takes those sort of reminders sometimes to make me realize how truly blessed I am.

I was just thinking yesterday if I would marry my H if I could go back and do it all over again. If I could get the same children without, then I would not have married him probably knowing what I know now. Too much pain and heartache. But all that was worth it for these two amazing little kids. They just light up my world.

You know, I slowly get that my H is getting it. We went tot he all today to get Mother's Day gifts. On the way I mentioned that we would stop and get hot dogs and fries in the food court..there's a place we all like.

So we finish buying and H goes towards the ice cream place. I said I thought we were getting lunch. No, h need to leave asap b/c he has to go to another store before he leaves for work. So no lunch for me!

As we're nearing home he asks what I want for lunch and I tell him I wanted a hot dog and fries like I had said. He says, oh, I'm sorry. Like he really means it! Then he turns and goes to another place and gets me hot dogs and fries.

So dumb and small, but would not have happened in the past 5 years. He's thinking of me and caring about me. I am noticing it more and more and it really feels good. He has a looooooong way to go, but I think he just may really be trying.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Quick note, just got a minute while DS is occupied with the race to jump on here.

H is still an ass. Yes, he's stressed, so what, who isn't?

The pain that you create now is always some form of nonacceptance, some form of unconscious resistance to what is.

Absolutely run, this is my life. I don't accept what I have now. It is what it is, isn't good enough for me.

As much as I want it to change, it won't by my will alone.

I will, the next negative comment ask him why he's so angry, just keep asking him that, over and over. I'm repeating it in my head all day.

I tried explaining it to DS today, but although to me it sounded like excuses, it wasn't... it's how he is. He's an angry, frustrated, self-absorbed, fearful, no self-esteem, critical nobody. He's not even someone to me any more. He used to have that. Just don't care about him or his problems any more.

fnf, you'll get a kick out of this... he actually tried to accuse ME of not being affectionate with him. And used that as an excuse for why he's not being affectionate or sexual with me. The man hasn't even initiated holding my hand for the past 6 weeks. Nothing. I had to PUT his arm around me the other night on the couch when I TRIED to snuggle with him.

My IC says at least I'm not chasing after him begging him for attention. I may be angry about it, but I'm not debasing myself and that's a step forward.

Im sorry everyone, I don't have time to catch up and probably won't until Monday.

Hope everyone has a wonderful mother's day... I know I can look at them and think I did a good job, well, at least I'm batting .500. As someone once said, an average like that gets you in the hall of fame.

Love to all.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, May 10th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

To me the anger and rage are an expression of my deep sadness and misery. If I felt better I wouldn't need to attack. I could shake my head in sorrow and think what a sad sad man, without being brought to the brink of rage from his cruel comments.

snow, I'm getting to this point. I told my IC on Friday that the A won't end my M, the anger won't, but the saddness will.

I looked at him today after a rash of negativity and thought "how sad it must be to be you". Maybe that will help me detach from him.

I can't make him happy. I can't take away what he's done and how it's affected me, our kids. We'll never be that couple again, no matter how much I try to let go. There's too much, too much time spent in this pain... I'm thinking that the affair time changed him and NOT for the good. We're right back in that pattern again. He's not cheating, but he's just as miserable and nothing I do will change that.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 2:07 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This concept of living in the now simply is not possible close to dday as our entire world has disinegrated and we don't know what "now" is. It takes months/years to rebuild our "now" and have confidence that it is real.

Um...I know that. I did say "not newbies", did I not? There is simply no way for someone new to this (and I do agree with no mor that it takes over a year to even digest this) to live in the present and not worry or fear the future. In no way did I mean to imply that you should have d-day and put it behind you because it is in the past, and I think those who have been here with me from the beginning are very aware of that. I am very well versed in the suffering a BS goes through in the first year, or even the first two years after discovery of an LTA. I would NEVER assume someone could live in the "now" while enduring that much pain. I just don't believe that's possible.

I am suggesting the book to those further out who (like me) keep the "box" open--whose husbands are holding up their end of the deal and doing all they can to make a better "now". My H will never succeed because I'm always "in the box"--digging around in the past. Credit will never be given for his making amends and making the changes he needs to "now". It will all go unnoticed--because all I see is what is in that box...from THEN.

I'm talking about the misery I create for myself because I worry about what MAY happen. I steal time from my NOW every single day worrying about something that doesn't happen--as if I could prevent it anyway. And then my "now" is "then" and it's gone--just like my past.

If my "now" is good, I need to pay attention.

My biggest fear (as weepy can attest to because I've said it to her over and over again) is that I will DIE.THIS.WAY. If I don't stop digging through the box and appreciate what is happening RIGHT NOW, that is exactly what will happen. I will remain miserable and in my past, and my life will end like this.

You see, I think the concept of living in the now is the ideal but our reality is that whatever we believed about our M and our H's "then" is "now" changed and that is the "now" I am personally struggling with.

After learning what we have now, learned, is it really possible or even wise to believe that our H's have dramatically changed and become new and improved trustworthy, loving, selfless, sensitive, caring spouses who now give us no reason whatsoever to doubt them?
When we have been betrayed to the extent that many in this LTA forum have, (my H's LTA included 8 years of deceit), how can we realistically now allow ourselves to put the past behind us? For me it is the struggle to come to terms with who my H really is NOW.

Do any of you think your Hs are cheating and lying right now? If not, appreciate that. For now. For you. This will not give pardon to your H for his horrific actions from before. It allows you a respite from your pain--right now! There's nothing you can do about what was. Suffering about it today just keeps it all alive. And if you do think he's cheating and lying now, what do you need to do about it?

Accept--then act.

Unless you move, the place where you are is the place you will always be.

YES it sucked. HE sucked. The whole damn thing stunk to High Heaven. But it's not happening NOW and there isn't anything we can do NOW about the fact that it DID happen. And believe me when I tell you, I spent that whole first year looking for it to be undone. It can't be undone. But do we believe it is going to be good enough...that HE going to be good enough to make a real go of things? If not...what the Hell are we doing here?

Accept--then act.

What I am hypothesizing is that those of us who are unfortunate to have toxic people/elements in their world that cannot be removed for whatever reason, have a longer path to recreating their reality because these individuals are undermining their effort. The toxic people undermine our ability to "know" that our "now" is real and safe. Therefore, it keeps sending us back into the "then" to try to find answers or a better reality - one that works under the necessity of having that person in our lives.

I'm having a hard time with this one too because it creates a victim mentality. We still have choices. They may be hard to make, but we always have a choice. I have made some very hard but necessary choices to remove toxic people from my life. Their behavior was unacceptable and it wasn't changing. I did what I believed was necessary to take care of myself.

Accept--then act.

A person may not be strong enough to make changes like that so soon after d-day, but if a person remains a toxic presence in your life, you MUST do what is necessary to take care of yourself eventually.

I don't accept what I have now. It is what it is, isn't good enough for me.

Well, weepy...what does that say to you?

Look, I am in no way "cured" because of this book. I'm just saying the concept makes perfect sense TO ME, and I thought I'd share it. I am a perfect example of someone who is drowning in what happened in the past. I also live in perpetual fear of the future and worry about shit I can't even begin to tell you about. My mind is my enemy. Truly. I am a codependent who is BENT on "fixing" and "changing" someone else so that I can then be happy. And I'll be the first to tell you--NONE of it is working for me.

Learning to live in the "now", instead of in my past, is a great first step out of my hole. FOR ME. I just thought it could be for some of you too.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:51 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.
( Ukg!)

So H and I spoke last night till 3:30 am!

The first thing we were both surprised about, is that it has been yonks (no, months really )since we have spoken about the A's. He said that he is sure we havent spoken about them at all this year.Wow.

Secondly, he took the time to explain to me what he now believed about "the addictions" and I questioned, genuinely curious, and he answered back nicely...no snarkiness, defensiveness from him, and no attacking, meanness, crying from me. Surprising again.

Thirdly, this is what he said, if we are to continue with the addiction analogy.

Fnf, what do you think?

He said yes, they were a form of addiction, and in that time and for some time after ddays, he did miss the highs. BUT now he sees them for what they were...they were not real highs...they were empty and fake, not sustainable authentic highs.
Further, now he feels like he has been told that if he has one more cigarette (read A), no matter how short, then he would die a very painful death immediately. And worse, all the people he loves most would suffer too. For what? A fake empty high.No, thanks!
BUT more than that, he doesnt crave that high anymore. Hasnt in a long time.

I tried to go into the "What if oneday..."scenes, but he said that he just doesnt crave that addiction anymore, but if he ever felt something like that, than we would address it then. But he just cant see that happening with the way he feels about the A's now.

Well well well....

I have to admit Mr LostH had me at a loss for words (and we all know how rare that is ).

I hope I explained this properly (he has a much better way with words).

He was on such a roll, that he threw in some freebies as well!

He said that he has never felt like he had a voice in our M (for whatever reason), and he doesnt want to live like that again. HE is going to do his darnest to voice his opinion/feeling about things in the M and our lives, and try to stick to his convictions, even if it means fighting me on it.
This is huge for him, being the conflict avoider that he is...and challenging for me...being the controller that I am.

Just thought I start the day here on a positive note!

****

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY Our American Friends!!!!

Our Ms' may have sucked, but we were/are awesome mums. Yay to all of us!!!!

[This message edited by Lost Heart at 3:54 AM, May 11th (Sunday)]


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:07 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((HB))))

I am so sorry about your friend's baby. And it really touches our hearts when we have been through it before.

I saw a client a few weeks ago, and she spoke about her still born who passed away in 1998, and she started tearing and getting really emotional. And then she apologised and said that she must seem strange but I wouldnt understand what she is going through since I havent been through it.

I told her firstly that she must never apologise for her feelings..EVER..and secondly, I do know what it feels like (as I lost my baby in '98 too). And she just broke down.
She has been holding all these unresolved feelings about her baby inside for years and she thinks people will judge her as she went on to have a healthy baby after. Isnt it so sad that we do this to ourselves, that we are so concerned about what others think, that we bottle in our sadness to make others feel better?

I am sure your friend appreciated yor support, knowing how hard it must be for you too, but also that you know what she is going through.

****

Hey Run.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. I can just picture you shaking your head in frustration, trying to explain.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
no mor surprises
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Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Run,

Amazing explanation. A big reason for me to accept the now was that I too did not want to die like I was. I did not want to let the lta (9 and a half yrs with 9 yrs of false R) DESTROY me. I kenw that if he changed enough (knowing that a person so capable of a lta would need time) I would stay. I also knew that if he was unable or incapable of significant change, I would leave. I knew that both paths would take courage on my part. That is unfair to me but then alot in life is unfair. I have acknowledged that in many areas of life, I have been blessed beyond belief. This is an area in my life where I HAVE to use all of my resources to create my new life.

So if you are sick and tired of being sick, tired and angry, you might want to try a new path and accept the past as reality thaat can't be changed and move into the now and what is.

I only see two choices, misery or acceptance of what can't be changed. And if your h STILL is a sob, what are you going to do about that NOW. Are you going to keep wishing that this isn't real or accept that he is what he is and make decisions from your reality.


Posts: 1768 | Registered: Jul 2005
BorrowTrouble
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Default  Posted: 10:21 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All right, Run. Books ordered. Tolle should give you a percentage for that explanation.

And I know exactly what you mean about not wanting to die the way you were. Me either. I believe that is a key turning point in life -- when you can admit and articulate that you want to change YOU or your choices. And that you can. And that it will make a difference.

That is when you go from railing at slings and arrows to realizing your own power. Including the power to exorcise the toxic from your life, whether that be a person, a situation or an attitude.

What you also learn is patience -- that there is time to think and observe and wait for things to unfold. That you have the strength to give people the grace to work on themselves and to change. Including yourself. And that you also have the right to decide when enough is enough.

Run, my friend, like you I've had to learn this lesson twice in my life -- once before d-day and once after. I think that's because no one ever taught it to me in childhood, again, like you. So I needed to learn it twice in adulthood. To make sure it really stuck.

Believe me, I will never forget it again. I'm looking forward to reading the books. Thanks for bringing them up.


ETA: Of course we can't do this in the immediate aftermath of d-day. Finding out about a LTA is traumatizing. T-R-A-U-M-A. The only thing we can do when we are traumatized is recover. And that takes as long as it takes.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 10:28 AM, May 11th (Sunday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
BorrowTrouble
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Default  Posted: 10:23 AM, May 11th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost Heart:

Wow. That sounds like an incredible conversation. He surprised you, didn't he?

How do you feel now?

bt


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
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