If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?
Happy couples with long marriages triggered me for a long time, but not so much anymore. Run into any of those lately?
But I just can't put my finger on why I'm so angry lately when there's just nothing that spurred this. Maybe I'm feeling uncomfortable that things are going too well, that I'm giving H trust back & starting to love him again. And admittedly it's scary, and maybe my subconcious is trying to create problems..... Has anyone else experienced this?
FSA_ SO great to see you & to hear that the chains of the LTA are finally starting to free themselves.
HUGS to the rest of the TRIBE
I don't think "happy couples" trigger me. But they do make me sad for what I can never have.
and maybe my subconcious is trying to create problems
Night Mary Ellen
Heartbroken (no hysterical boonding going on here.....it's the end of the school year madness!)
I have alot of thinking to do re how I am going to move forward.I used to be really good at swallowing the anger at H before..would just channel that into being supermum, superfriend, superhousewife, and supereater too.( )I had never been so organised and uptodate as I was during the years in Au. Can you believe that my freezer would be stocked with homemade pies, cakes, breads,biscuits and desserts...just in case. No store bought for my family! Now just baking for the recent birthdays was an effort.
My anger has gotten better in recent months. Tapping and time out helpes a great deal...but the other night made me realise that those are just coping techniques...the anger is still there.
To be honest, BT, I dont know if swallowing would work for me now. Before I could do a great job at hiding my feelings from H...and the fact that he couldnt be bothered to look too deeply helped as well. Now I am unable to hide anything from him (good and bad)and he's become better at reading me.
So I am going to print out what you said for IC, and ask her for some suggestions. I will pass them to others if anyone else is interested in ways of coping with hostility that doesnt involve eating or throwing a cup of coffee at your H!!!
I cope with my anger by going to the gym. Or driving off where I know there are no speed cameras. Or trying to use it constructively. Like in MC!! These days my anger is directed at him and what he did. I am extremely angry that he was so fucking selfish and Iím extremely angry that he did it because he wanted to. I donít buy his excuses, even after reading his letter. Itís all said and done with a rewriting and a rearranging of the past in order for him to go on into the future. And now I am , like so many here, wondering if I am staying just b/c I quite like every other aspect and quality of my life and donít want it to change. And I donít want to face the big bad world on my own and (gulp) have to earn a living. Better the devil you think you know?
HB, my parents have been married for almost 60yrs and happily partnered for most, if not all that time. Some of you might remember that my Dad was critically ill for about ten years with kidney stones, mostly in his thirties. So they have a deeper bond than a lot of others. They are very strong people. They are also of a diff generation Ė my Dad was a navigator towards the end of WW2 and posted out in Burma. Very much carpe diem. They donít do resentment, regret, sorrow or dwell on might have beens. They value everything they have achieved and everything they have and know they are blessed. I had security within my family all my childhood. They would always be there. I know one will not survive long without the other and I dread the day when one of them dies. I think I took it for granted that my M would be and was much the same Ė a partnership for life. Complacent? Probably. Smug married, definitely.
My ILís (younger by 6yrs) on the other hand got míd when she fell pregnant with Hís older brother. Thereís 15mths between them. Her MIL took her in to her overflowing house. Something like 15 living in a 3-bed terraced house in East London until the council found a place for M&FIL and their babies. They have certainly hoiked themselves up by their bootstraps, managed to buy their own home, earn enough to have a good life without need and now live in a pretty part of the country in a house that overlooks the coastline, sea and island. All four parents were scholarship pupils and university material, but where denied due to circumstances at the time. H has thought that his M may have been in a ďrelationshipĒ at one time when he was about 12 (she would have been a v attractive 32). And others within the large family have had Aís and Dís. Including one couple swapping partners.
Actually, I think my H has more issues than I have previously appreciated. OWís fucked up family, his large extended family, his brother getting míd young may have influenced him getting engaged to OW. And academically, H was under so much pressure to get into Oxbridge, he was put on valium at 18 in his last year at school. He was the first in the whole family to go to uni, let alone such a prestigious one. So maybe OW was his safety valve back then, his escape into someone elseís mad family. This time too? I think he need IC more than I do.
Rambling again. Just the way I feel right now. Almost flat, but not quite. See yíall later. My friend (she shares my name irl, so I guess she can share my nom de plume) could do with some positives, sheís really low.
However, I can see everybody else's POV on why not to send it. So sit on it for awhile, until you are ready to accept the consequences of any action. I also agree that its too lovely to share.
Shirley, have you decided what to do with the rings and anniversary?
I am a bit of a scrooge, so I wouldnt bury them.
I took mine off after dday and never put them on again. It took a long time before I could even look at them again. Its put away with all the jewellery that he bought for me and OW#2. Maybe one day I will get the rings melted and made into something for the kids. I dont know. I have mentioned casually about us renewing our vows and getting new rings,(seeing as we have been married in only the legal sense from the beginning) but he said that he would do it for me, as he didnt believe in that. So I guess we wont.
Back to you: Ok this is what I might do. Send the girls away on Friday night. Spend the next am in mourning. Cry, look through old photos, reminisce etc. Get as much out of your system as you can. If you dont feel it, dont force it.Maybe you might be too tired of this A crap. And he might be quite emotional too, so you both can hold each other up. Then in the afternoon, wash up and go for walk, for coffee, something calm and serene.Then pick up the girls, and go out for dinner. Celebrate them. They are the BEST outcome of this M. If you dont want H to be there, thats ok too.I am sure he will respect that. Reminisce with them of past special moments. Remind each other how precious this family is.And most of all, look at you Shirley. Look at how well you have done with the hand that you have been dealt. And you are still standing, laughing, coping, crying, loving and living.
Celebrate you and your beautiful girls.
And of course having H at your beck and call the whole weekend might just help too!
25 years.Wow. Speak to H about it beforehand, HBH, about how you both are going to tackle the day.Other friends/family might remember too, so be prepared for that. Dont wait for H to bring it up.And dont expect him to do the right thing, because really, what is the right thing in our sitches? Think it through...given everything thats happened, what would be the best way for HBH to get though the day?
Why no present for you though? Go on, treat yourself. You have the Tribe's permission. I am sure we can come up with some good suggestions! Are you a jewellery woman? Bag and shoe lady? A SpaSlut ala OTC?
Re UKgirl..that was just a picture....she is wayyyy more babe IRL!!!
But it's my back, and I want to have sex!
Now I know that there has to be at least one position that you can do with that back! Wheres our inhouse sex gurus???
Here are a link to get you started:
The sun is shining. H and I are loving again.
I know theres alot of work to do on me, and I am game.
BT, thank you again. And again. I know its a huge responsibility giving out serious advice... we all appreciate it here. I am feeling lighter inside already.
[This message edited by Lost Heart at 5:00 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]
Going out now. Hope everyone has a good day.
Just a little on what I did last night....
Last night I went out with my GF. The only one who knows. She's known Steve for 20+ years too so I figured she would have a perspective no one here does.. she knows him. She says he's just not capable of being what I want him to be, that I'm miserable, deserve better, she told me I'd be better off divorcing him if he was still playing games... I told her about the phone call, the MB, the sarcastic remarks. And she's the one who was the first to tell me that the affairs didn't mean anything to him, to look at what he was fucking and really think if he could love something like that or even really want to be there. She and SI were why I tried so hard.
So I told her to not be disappointed if I stayed for a while yet because I didn't want him to profit from his "mistakes" and that I wanted to move some money around and make sure my kids were taken care of before I did anything. She understood. Just said that her house was open any time I needed her or her H.
I was really stunned. She's a huge proponent of marriage and forgiveness and redemption. She's the most spiritual person I know (IRL) and she's given up on him too.
She invited me on their vacation to Mexico next year.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
Hope everyone has a great day. Hopefully this weekend I will be able to do some catching up. It's just been crazy busy. The end of the school year, being gone, and helping my DS get his house finished.
My thoughts on getting past the hostility...
I actually made the choice to move forward, and once I did, there was no looking back.
I started by taking time for what was important for me. I also joined a gym and got a personal trainer. Exercising saved my life. Even now when I am having a bad day, I will either hit the gym, ride my bike, or put on my headphones and walk my troubles away!!
I use to be very different, my house and my family always came first. But I realized that I couldn't be there for them, if I didn't take care of me. So now I put me first. Don't get me wrong... I am always there for my kids, but they are adults and don't need me in the same way they use to.
Maybe because I have changed SO much, my H has as well. It was either that or he would have been left behind!!
Have a great day.......
I am woman, hear me ROAR!!
What you accept, you teach!
Me 53, WS 54
Reconciled for life!
DD 24, DS 27
Happy couples with long marriages triggered me for a long time, but not so much anymore
Here's the thing with that, how do you knwo it's been so happy? I guarantee you every one of my friends and family owuld say that my H and I have had a veru happy marriage. My kids will never, ever know about the affair. When I feel we are really reconciled then I will burn evry paperand journal pertaining to it. So I suspect in 30 years someone may trigger from my marriage but they won't knwo the work it took to get there or the heartache along the way.
When I feel we are really reconciled then I will burn evry paperand journal pertaining to it.
My plan exactly. Should be quite the fire! I'm really big on ritual and symbolism. H just thinks it's stupid.
I called him this morning because believe it or not, I completely forgot about brunch this morning when he asked my plans for the day. SO he gave me a hard time about not telling him, about spending the money, about going to lunch with someone from my home town (I didn't tell him who I was with fnf) who I didn't carpool with for the 19 years she worked there. All I said to him was "do you really want to go back and talk about things we did or should have done? Do you really want to go there?" And now I have an "attitude" and he says "I don't know what bug you have up your ass this week, but you better get over it."
Says he's only doing to me what I did to him when he was unemployed... well, no that was right after dday (7 months he wasn't working) and I did call him every hour and yell at him the why, how, call him names, rage, etc. But I think I had cause, don't you?
He doesnt like it when I give back to him as good as he gives to me. He's pissed, it's ok for him to abuse but not me? Sorrrreeee!
Gotta run. Need shower big time.
Shirley, this is a bit late, but I wanted to say that was a lovely letter, spoken straight from the heart.
Thanks Lost Heart. I don't plan on sending it. However, if things were to go badly with H (divorce or something) it might get sent. Or if she materializes for any reason (which I doubt) I might send it. She is long gone, never told her H and is still married. However, she does as old co-workers about him. That, I think, was his point of the letter. I think he finally realized that it wasn't just about sex for her. She did it because she loved him. He wants himself, me and her, if necessary, know that he wasn't capable of love and certainly not with her.
Lost and UKgirl - I think you bring up a good point about the anger. Each of it must deal with it their own way. Some can bury it, some act out on it ( ), some work it out, etc. I believe taking it to IC is a great idea since you will need to find your own way to work through your anger. In addition, I think it does matter how your H receives your anger. If he gets defensive etc then that will undermine trying to R. If he denies it, that is a bigger problem as we do have the right to be angry.
Gotta run - guests here.
She said the reason its so "potent" is that dday unleashed past non-hostilities as well (FOO).
We spoke about the after- effects briefly about the A's, and you know, they were all not bad.
DDay opened up many doors for me, some good and some bad. The good ones were I was no longer holding myself to some impossible bar; I realised that I didnt need to to be "perfect" anymore, and that freed me to find out who me really is...not just super mum and super wife etc.
Also another positive door that was opened was to my sexuality (I think I have spoken enough about that here! )
A negative door was my FOO can of worms, in particular my anger at my father, which I have seemed to have transferred some onto H.
Another negative door, is that sense of peace that I had before with just me and the kids. I havent really looked into that. I know the kids miss the old times, the peaceful routine we had, when it seemed like we had all the time in the world, everything was in its place. My world was devoted to my kids.
To survive and thrive, I am going to have learn how to close the bad doors forever (by doing that I will have to deal with whats behind those doors), and how to manage whats coming out of the good doors.
So EMDR, talking, and excercise is what she is recommending right now for me.
Hope that helps someone.
but it's hard not to feel sorry for yourself some times and think there are lots of people who have it so much easier.
I know that this is not a particularly constructive thought, but nonetheless:
Do you ever wonder how it is that some people just breeze through life, have a little bump here and there, but just breeze right through. And then there are people who seem almost cursed from the time they are born?
I have these ladies at school with whom I have become casual friends. Today both of them said to me that they noticed that I have become "quite broad" (they have hardly seen me in the last month as I dont do the school run much anymore). Now I know I have put on some weight since I started working. But to have it said out like that. Ouch.
And unnecessarily cruel IMHO. I spoke to my IC about it and she said they prob said it out of envy. Envy of moi? She said they look at me going to work, all dressed up,always smiling, having a life outside of the kid school run, and they need to poke some holes in that to make themselves feel better. So I said but why pick on me, why cant they do something about themselves. Also I have never been mean to them. I believe if you have nothing good to say, then shut up.
And then she said, "But you do (be mean)to H."
And I spluttered, "But thats not the same! Look at what he did!"
She agreed. He has done some mean things, but I chose how to react to him. Him being mean to me does not give me an excuse to be mean to him.
Dont know why I just related that: its been playing on my mind. Guess its related to what BT said about becoming the person I want to be.
DDay opened up many doors for me, some good and some bad
I believe it is important to admit that, as painful as it was, the ddays we have had did have some positive impact on our lives. In our anger, we might not want to admit it, but I know that in a lot of ways my life is better now. I just wish it was better without all the heartache.
Oh, and btw, I am going to that site as soon as I don't have to worry about someone walking up behind me and asking what I am looking at! I don't think slamming the laptop is particularly effective either!!!
So Lost -
Here's the thing with that, how do you knwo it's been so happy? I guarantee you every one of my friends and family owuld say that my H and I have had a veru happy marriage.
I agree. I now know that I can't look at anyone's marriage from the outside and pretend to know what is happening. I will only focus on my own. It is as if someone took blinders off of me and I see disrespect and violated boundaries all around me. I had never even heard the word "boundary" used in this context until I found SI. As far as the sex thing, I think we need to be very specific about our needs. I have to believe they are scared shitless of the mind movies, etc. I have specifically told my H that I DO NOT want to make love to him. I DEFINITELY want to have sex with him. A completely different thing altogether. I am cheering for you on this one!!
Weepy - I don't know what to say. I think your friend is right and she knows your sitch as well as anyone. How long can you keep putting up with his demeaning behavior?
it's hard not to feel sorry for yourself some times and think there are lots of people who have it so much easier.
Well, Iím back from UKg2ís and everything is okay. She was upfront with him and asked him who he met in London on Saturday pm. He didnít go, he said. He then showed her the receipts for his breakfast (near his nanís hospital), the receipt for the flowers he bought, the receipt for fuel he bought on the way home and the receipt for a snack while he waited for his DD2 to finish at her friends party. They were all timed and dated, making it impossible for him to have been in the west end. She then showed him the receipt in question. They havenít sorted out where the receipt came from, itís not Jackieís. But their kids come and go with their bags of clothes and stuff, so Ö. Anyhow, theyíve kept it until the mystery has been solved. When he phoned home, he heard the tension in her voice and asked if she was ok. She said she needed to talk to him. He thought she was going to say sheíd found someone else (his prev XW had a revenge A), so it was a tense time for a while and it has certainly shaken them up. Itís good that they could talk about it without accusations of paranoia. But, as she says, once youíve been affected by infidelity, you never trust so completely again.
[This message edited by UKgirl at 10:26 AM, May 8th (Thursday)]