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User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"A feeling memory is a sudden overwhelming emotional experience that also cannot be explained by anything that you are aware of at the moment. Feeling memories surface mostly in the form of four primary emotions.. anger, fear, pain and shame..... A "shame attack" is a sudden, profound almost overwhelming sense of being less than, worthless, inadequate, stupid, bad, ugly" or (responsible for all the bad things in our life or the life of others.)

Weepy, thank you for posting that. I think I had one of those today, and I totally crumbled. Kids came home to their mum in bed, covers drawn over my head, eyes red from crying...I thought those days were long over. I told them I had one of my migraine attacks, so they were ok with that.

Anyway, this is for those SAHMs who returned to work.
How do you manage?
I am afraid I am going to bust. I love going to work, but I am feeling really overwhelmed with that and the kids and H and house. I am not managing. I started getting these strange feelings in my face about 2 weeks ago..a kind of pins and needles tingling.
And I am having bad dreams almost every night. And I am always so tired. Theres just not enough of me to go around, you know.

IC says this is normal, that it will take some time for me to find some equilibruim, but I need answers now!

Any tips, working mums?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

even build him up with the kiddos, crediting him for things like treats because he just wasnt bothered.

I build a life, and he wasnt it, not because I kept him out, but because he didnt want to.

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto. He thinks I'm crazy, but I remember buying Christmas gifts and birthday gifts and such and putting his name on the card. I remember looking at their faces and telling them "Dad's working hard honey. He doesn't want to miss your recital (or concert or band show or wrestling meet) he just can't get away. You understand he's working hard for you too don't you?"

at the thought now. How many excuses I made for him, how many ruffled feelings I smoothed over when he was particularly hard on them. Reading them the story because they "asked Daddy but he said he's tired of reading that one." How uninvolved are you when you can't even read a story to your kids that will take you 3 minutes? Telling them they should be reading on their own by now anyway. When do kids get too old for you to read to them... especially when they're almost BLIND you asshole!

OK, I'm angry now. Maybe it's the lack of nicotine. We are really trying to quit.

Now as far as how I did it, working FT with kids and no husband? Haven't got a clue, I just kept moving. I never sat down. That's why I don't really feel like looking for a job now...I'm f'ng tired. 22 years of lunches and homework and laundry and cooking. Cleaning not so much.

That was part of our "trade off" I asked him if he wanted a clean house or a working wife. He chose me working, so the house is still a disaster. It's better since I"ve been home.

But I'll tell you. TG my kids were older when this all hit. I barely managed to get TO work, let alone do any while I was there. And other than helping my son with college applications and school visits and such, I don't remember doing alot for either kid.

I'm having a hard time seeing myself back at work full time again. Just because the brain isn't functioning the way it did 3 years ago. I just don't have the energy, stamina, interest to care whether reports get out on time or the P&L is off by $30. Please, I have more important things on my mind.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Since reading about the previous discussion regarding sympathy for WH, I have been trying to figure out what it is I feel for him now. Sympathy or empathy? I am no closer but found this article which I am pasting a part of below.Not related to H but me. Thought someone might find it helpful. I am still working through it.

Both sympathy and empathy are concerned with relationship: so it's important to remember that our first relationship is always with ourself - and hence we need our own sympathy and empathy at times. 'Self-sympathy' could almost be a synonym for self-awareness, or, for that matter, for assertiveness: it's about extending those threads of relationship and connectedness all the way back to oneself, acknowledging that we do 'have a right to be here, no less than the trees and stars' - yet also no more than the trees and stars, too. But in self-empathy, we acknowledge who we are, in our own context, as if relating to a total stranger - in other words, trying to see ourselves as others would, to understand our choices and our challenges 'from the outside'. (In a peculiar sense, it's so subject-centred that it ends up being almost object-centred: it's the nearest that we'll ever get to being 'objective' about our own actions!) It's particularly important to use self-empathy when looking at our own past: otherwise it's all too easy to wander off into delusions of self-importance or - more likely - to spiral down into a morass of self-pity and self-blame.


To understand self-empathy, choose a moment that you don't like about your past - something deeply embarrassing, perhaps, or an act that now seems cowardly or cruel. That kind of judgement comes up easily, even when we try to be sympathetic, because we're looking at those incidents from our current context, with all the benefit of hindsight. So shift instead into empathy, viewing yourself-of-then as if a total stranger, in another context, another world.

First look back into the past 'objectively', to help you rebuild an awareness and an understanding of your context - who, what, when, where and why - at that time, with all that 'benefit of hindsight'; then reach out not just to remember but to feel again the exact circumstances of that moment; and merge those two very different perspectives into one, viewing the actions of yourself-of-then within the overall context of the time. What were the choices and the challenges that yourself-of-then believed you faced, that led you to the actions that you then took? In what ways do your current judgements of yourself-of-then change? Seen from the wider perspective, in what ways now do those choices perhaps seem 'mis-taken' - or perhaps seem more understandable, given the full context of the time? Given that hindsight, how hard is it for you to accept, simply that that is what you did - for reasons that, at the time, were simply the reasons that you chose?

Those were the choices, there, then; the results, here, now, are the twists... And yes, with the benefit of hindsight, perhaps you could have done things differently; perhaps you should have done things differently; but those 'magic' words - so commonly a cue for self-deprecation - don't actually help in resolving anything from the past, and usually only make things worse. The past is the past: we can see it, but we can never change it, and any attempt to do so, or to make others do so, only ends up abusing someone - usually ourselves. Instead, use self-empathy's strangely dispassionate yet compassionate gaze to accept the choices of yourself-of-then: accepting that that is what you did, in what ways does it make it easier to be 'response-able' about it now? In what ways does your 'response-ability' change - empowering you to do whatever needs to be done now to resolve the unpleasantness of that moment in the past?


Sympathy and empathy demand a lot from us: honesty and self-honesty, in particular. And in turn they help us to be more honest, with ourselves, and with others. But we can't do it all ourselves: and we don't need to, because those same threads of connectedness - if we allow them to do so - will show us allies at every turn. These allies are more than 'friends': they're in sympathy with us, yes, but they're not necessarily 'sympathetic' in the usual sense! True allies are able to be honest with us, and in turn we're able to be honest with them: which is why we need them so much when - as now - we begin to put our weird 'toolkit' into practical use.


***
Weepy, you have earned your rest time, so lay back and enjoy it.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
midori
♀ New Member
Member # 18980
Default  Posted: 4:33 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am a bit lost here. I have found this place while looking on the internet. I am not familiar, yet, with the procedures and abbreviations, so I hope you will be patient. I feel a little strang starting to talk about my horrible shame with strangers. Nonetheless I am comforted to know you have all been where I am. My husband of 28 years had an affair of 5 years. It stopped and restarted several times. Anyway I have known for a little over 2 years. It has been horrible, and though things are getting better I still have times,like you have described here where I absolutely come unglued. I keep thinking that will go away and everytime I think it has it comes back.


Peace. Be still.

Posts: 2 | Registered: Apr 2008
SoSadToSay
♀ Member
Member # 18964
Cool  Posted: 4:50 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to say, I haven't felt so good since finding this site (Like 2 days ago). Seriously. I was reading all these wonderful posts and articles and crying my eyeballs out, not so much that I was sad (which I still can be), but because I NEVER thought anyone would understand this. WOW was I surprised. I am glad there is a place for us :)


"And we can build through this destruction, As we are standing on our feet, So, since you want to be with me, You'll have to follow through With every word you say" ~ GavinDeGraw
Me BS 35

Posts: 298 | Registered: Apr 2008 | From: the face of the sun
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Midori.

Have you read the articles in the Healing lib (link on the left)? They are a good starting point.

Dont feel shame for your H's actions. You DID nothing wrong. You didnt post your story so I am not sure when your dday was. I am going to assume its fairly recent, so I can imagine how raw and vulnerable and lost you are feeling right now. Your whole world seems to be collapsing around you.

Unfort I was getting ready to sign off just when I saw your post (its almost 11pm here), so hopefully the others will be along. If not, will check in with you tomorrow.

For now, Midori, just breathe and be. You might find reading threads in JFO and general helpful too.

Again, welcome and I am sorry that you find yourself here.

Take care.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 6:25 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FNF - please don't get upset but I had a good chuckle at that.

Shirley - nothing to be upset about - that's exactly how it happened. He didn't want me to infringe on his time so why should I have let him infringe on mine? And, yes, I do think he was a bit shocked but I went and had a great time without him. I cried all the way home because I didn't want to leave. My son even tried to talk me into staying longer and believe me I was tempted. You know, now that I'm aware of what was going on during those years I am glad to have taken very good care of myself. I would have been beyond pissed if I had denied myself the things I wanted and needed only to discover that he was indulging his every whim.
Lost - there really is no connection to my FOO. My mom was a SAHM and my dad was always available when he came home from work. We had lots of family activities. Both of my parents came from large families and there were always lots of family celebrations on both sides. I have so many cousins it's impossible to remember all their names. I am especially close to my father's side of the family, especially 3 of my cousins. They are fun to be with, loving, and always available to me. They are the ones who know my story and have been the best support to me, along with my sister. In fact, we often say that we are more like sisters than cousins, that's how special they are.
My Dad was very loving and affectionate and told us every day that he loved us. He was a prisoner of war in Germany during WWII and I really believe this experience changed his focus. He was EXTREMELY devoted to us and his entire family. Whatever choices he had to make professionally, he discussed these first with my mom. He always considered her and us first.
He loved my mom and was openly affectionate. I remember so many things he would say to us about my mom, sweet things, loving things. I loved hearing him talk about her. They were very affectionate with each other, giddy too. They kissed, and hugged and laughed and my siblings and I often talk about how special that was to witness.
My mom used to tell us that sex between two people who love each other is the most beautiful thing in the world.
Imagine then my utter shock and disillusionment to find that I was married to someone who thought sex was merely about "getting off." - that I didn't find what my parents had. How did I miss the early clues???
I think part of the problem was that my father had given up some very good opportunities because it meant time away from the family and as a result they sometimes struggled financially. When I met my H, I was very impressed with his success. I didn't realize at the time that success came with a price and that I and my children would pay that price. Very foolish and naive of me.
I had never met anyone who was so driven, so motivated to succeed. Our family values were polar opposites and I guess, as the cliche goes, opposites attract and I was very attracted and impressed when we met. We were not married long before I felt the sting of loneliness and indifference to my needs. Nothing in my childhood or FOO ever prepared me for a M like this. But as I said, pride forced me to defend myself and go after what I needed - where this came from I can only guess that growing up believing you are loved and special and then being expected to accept less just didn't work for me. I think it's why I am so surprised that I didn't walk as soon as I discovered his LTA. I guess it was my love of family and desire to keep us together that still keeps me determined to survive this.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG I have like 15 seconds to get this in....

H was watching a commercial where it's obviously a fake claim and says "You know I really hate it when someone just LIES to your face and expects you to believe it."

I say "mm hmm".

And he says "Shit, nevermind."


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Midori and SoSad -

Welcome. Sorry you find yourself here but it is a place of great support and wisdom. When you feel ready share your thoughts, feelings and stories. We are here to help.


Everyone - I may be a bit loopy for a couple of days. Had to have a "procedure" today that I was expecting and am in pain. Believe me, any sharing of this would be WAAAAAAAAAY TMI for you...it's gross.

Anyway, this is for those SAHMs who returned to work.
How do you manage?

Lost, I am independent now (work on my schedule) so I manage around my family life. But for the first 7 years after kids, I was working 60 -70 hour weeks in a very stressful jog. I remember very little of what I did except get up early, kiss the little ones while they were still asleep, give the nanny the day's schedule and go to work. 8-10 hours later I would come home. I was exhausted but I would play with them, read to them, put them to bed. Then, finally, a glass of wine and off to bed. The house was a disaster even with the nanny's help. My recommendation is to let it go. I know it is driving you crazy now but now I don't remember the mess.

If you can get some help on the home front (cleaning, grocery delivery, etc) take it. If not, many months ago I told FSA that the next best thing is to name the dustballs then they are "pets" not dirt!

Seriously, I have done this big time and will spend as much time with you as you need to help you through it. One thing I know - I needed a LOT more sleep then. So get as much sleep/rest as you can and take naps if it helps.

I'm having a hard time seeing myself back at work full time again.

Weepy - don't even think about work. Matter of fact, you are currently working full time - remember your severance? That is forward pay. You are getting paid to be on SI - enjoy!!

You know, now that I'm aware of what was going on during those years I am glad to have taken very good care of myself. I would have been beyond pissed if I had denied myself the things I wanted and needed only to discover that he was indulging his every whim.

Yea, that is my problem exactly. I am beyond, beyond pissed at all the sacrificies I made for the "family" only to find out he was in a 20 year party mode. He wanted to retire early, so I was frugal and saved all my bonuses so he could. Weeeeellllll, I am off to Florida in two weeks with a friend, met with the decorator today, and he can just work his sorry ass off until he is 100 as far as I care.

You were smart to do what you did. You know why? It wouldn't have changed his behavior and, at least, you had your own life. I realized when this all broke that I had spent so much time on the family that I hadn't spent time on friends and my life. That, too, is (as my teens would say) soooo over.

ed: because I had a "job" not a "jog"! Umm, Freudian slip?

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 7:38 PM, April 3rd (Thursday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, April 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yea, that is my problem exactly. I am beyond, beyond pissed at all the sacrificies I made for the "family" only to find out he was in a 20 year party mode.

Me, too. It was a very hard thing to get over.

It wouldn't have changed his behavior and, at least, you had your own life. I realized when this all broke that I had spent so much time on the family that I hadn't spent time on friends and my life. That, too, is (as my teens would say) soooo over.

Yes, I wish I hadn't deferred to him so much. That still pisses me off at myself.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 12:25 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT, thank you. I think I ask you the same questions over and over, and you have always been patient and giving with me. I appreciate that.

In my case, what it took for me was two-fold: understanding who I was and how I got to be that way, and finding my deepest fears and the (false) beliefs that drove them, and then working to change those.

I think I am working on that. Like weepy, I am currently in the middle of "Facing Codependence". Ugh--it's a hard one, but I see so much of my self and my life in it. Problem is that it overwhelms me (just another symptom--those "carried" feelings, you know).

I was amazed at the whole "shame core" thing and how it gets filled up with all kinds of negative, carried feelings, and I really related. It is just so sad that this can happen to a person--and really, I'm sad that it has happened to me.

Fear is what drives the need to control. Face down the fears and the need to control evaporates, except as a habit. And habits can be broken.

I'm sitting here thinking, "But I'm afraid to face the fears!" Ah...hopeless!

Seriously though, the thought of that scares the crap out of me. If I face my fears, it means I have to expose them and maybe do something with them. My thoughts are, "What will happen to me if I.....?" and it becomes uncomfortable. So I don't do anything. I don't look at them.

One of the truly amazing things about the human psyche to me is that merely exposing something dysfunctional in it is healing. Once you know that you hold a certain unhelpful belief or feeling, you are actually a good bit of the way down the road to fixing it. Like shining the light on it immediately starts to shrivel it.

I totally agree. My H told me if I was feeling overwhelmed with "Facing Codependence", I should stop reading it. No, I WANT to know what is wrong with me and where it comes from, because if I don't know, I can't change it. But thanks, hon!

You've said you cannot go to IC right now, so I would suggest doing the workbook for Facing CoDependence.

Definately. I forgot about the workbook.

I actually have coverage for IC until the end of July, but when I called around to find a new one...I got very discouraged. One got bent out of shape because one of the criteria I was looking for was someone who had experience dealing with recovery from a long term affair. She didn't understand what I thought the difference was. The other told me that she didn't have experience with LTA recovery because "most of those marriages just end". She told me it would kind of be futile to come as I would need more than my alloted visits since I was "still feeling this badly after a year and a half". I will check out the website you suggested though.

A lot of this is going to focus on you being willing to delve back through your life -- not just your marriage, but your childhood, your teenage years, etc. That's where a lot of your answers lie, and you need to look back there to find them. I don't know that I've ever heard you talk about that.

Actually, that's one thing I have become very aware of--how my past has affected me. I started that process years ago on a quest to be a better partner, parent, and person. My life wasn't pretty, and mostly I've been left with an overwhelming sense of worth-less-ness.

My post is already long, so I'll give the very short version of my past:

edited because I'm paranoid.

My biggest issue has always been feeling like I matter. So when my H had his LTA...it just unwrapped all that crap--pulled it all right out of the box. And feeling like I matter has become a huge thing again.

So that's it. More than you ever wanted to know, huh?

Thanks again, BT, for your post.

[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 11:32 PM, April 6th (Sunday)]


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:56 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning all.

Fnf, wow, I didnt know families like yours existed outside TV.

Nothing in my childhood or FOO ever prepared me for a M like this

Everything in my FOO prepared me for this, yet I am still struggling.


I would have been beyond pissed if I had denied myself the things I wanted and needed only to discover that he was indulging his every whim

I am beyond beyond-pissed!
Not just at H, but myself as well. And even though its not "right", I find myself fighting for every instance that I feel slighted now. I will no longer be quiet and accept that treatment. And even if it doesnt change anything, at least I had my say.

***
Thanks Shirley for the advice.
Its not just the housework, but the cooking and shopping and kids school work, drs apts..etc. Things that I was in charge of before, but cant handle all by myself now.

To his credit, H has been very helpful. And I am taking him on every offer. In fact, just to make things absolute, I draw up the weeks menu and allocate tasks. Guess it will take more time.

I am sorry you are pain from your procedure. TMI for us...are you kidding??
Take it easy, ok?

***
Run

You are one incredibly brave and courageous woman, you know that?
What you are doing in incredibly hard, and you are doing it by yourself.

I cant believe the lines those ICs pulled on you. Idiots!
Keep searching Run.Like BT said, it helps so much having someone guide you through this. Mine is a psycho-dynamic psychoanalytical psychotherapist (waaayy too much psychos in there )and I am so lucky to have found her.
Good luck with that.

My H told me if I was feeling overwhelmed with "Facing Codependence", I should stop reading it.

Why am I not surprised with that?

On a serious note though, Run, it is scary doing this with help, I can only imagine how scary it is doing it by yourself. So take care.

Re the EFT, if you have any queries, give me shout. It feels odd at first, but once you get into it, it becomes second nature.

[This message edited by Lost Heart at 3:57 AM, April 4th (Friday)]


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 6:04 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hi all,
been reading here alot but can't seem to gather my thoughts together with enough clarity to post. As always though i'm cheering/hoping/hurting right along with you.
a warm sorry welcome to the newbies, this is the right place.

Seriously though, the thought of that scares the crap out of me. If I face my fears, it means I have to expose them and maybe do something with them. My thoughts are, "What will happen to me if I.....?" and it becomes uncomfortable. So I don't do anything. I don't look at them.

robt, i was struck by this comment, i understand completely how you feel, and in what context, because of course most of us are in the same place. but you know as i read it what scares me more is knowing, although in a darker, different context this is also what my H did, all our H's obviously. that being so is even more motivation to face those fears. So even if you didn't intend to motivate me thankyou.
Hugs to everybody.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, Run. That sucks. I am sorry that you had that kind of childhood. Fucking wicked stepmother and all. It's funny, my younger sister and I always said we felt like Cinderella -- second-class citizens. Sounds like you did, too.

You know, lots of people who came out of a childhood like that would become, bitter loveless creatures themselves. You did not. Instead you learned from it. You cherish and love your children. You are working your hardest to love and forgive your husband for a truly horrific offense. Yes, you may have wounds from your childhood, but it didn't ruin you as it might have others. To me, that indicates a core of deep strength, wisdom and goodness. I see you here reach out to people who are hurting. I see you offer incredible insight to folks who are having trouble finding their way. I see you reach out to protect people when others are too harsh. I feel your genuine decency and kindness through your words. Even here, on an anonymous internet site, you have made a difference. You are seen and you matter. I hope you hear that and believe it. I don't say it lightly.

It must have been very difficult to do the work to overcome the wounds of your childhood only to then have your husband have the affair. I think no matter how much work we do on those childhood hurts there will always be a scar there, a vulnerability that can be reopened if the new psychic insult is bad enough. And God knows a LTA is bad enough.

One of the things I was going to write to you before is that it seems like facing your fears is a lot like learning to jump off a diving board. You can study technique till you're blue, but it finally comes to a point where you just have to leave the solid ground of that board and step off into space. To suspend the fear long enough to take a leap of faith. You know that; you've done it before. When you are ready, you will do it again.

Just a word about the IC. If I would have asked my IC whether she had experience with LTA, she would have said no. Neither did our MC. But my IC is a very sympathetic and empathetic person. She is soothing and caring and patient. I think if you can find those qualities in an IC, then that might be enough.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 7:49 AM, April 4th (Friday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see you here reach out to people who are hurting. I see you offer incredible insight to folks who are having trouble finding their way. I see you reach out to protect people when others are too harsh. I feel your genuine decency and kindness through your words. Even here, on an anonymous internet site, you have made a difference. You are seen and you matter. I hope you hear that and believe it. I don't say it lightly.

Run, What BT said.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One more thing. I don't think you are unusual at all in the amount of fear you have. At least that's what my IC tells me. A lot of my own fears were so intense that I actually felt that if certain emotional things happened to me that I would not survive them. Literally, I believed they would kill me.

We worked a long time to convince me that I was stronger than I was giving myself credit for. I think the same is true for you.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know, now that I'm aware of what was going on during those years I am glad to have taken very good care of myself. I would have been beyond pissed if I had denied myself the things I wanted and needed only to discover that he was indulging his every whim.

Yep, residual resentment overload on this one.

My H told me if I was feeling overwhelmed with "Facing Codependence", I should stop reading it.

robt, yeah, my H said the same thing. Same thing he says about everything. If it bothers you, avoid it, either physically or emotionally. Why our MC calls "yucky" stuff. When H feels "yucky" he defends against it. No surprise there.

run, you are one tough lady for sure.... hey, I didn't know there was a workbook. I've been writing in the margins. Do you find yourself reading about your H in the book? I'm finding this one way more helpful than Co-Dependent No More.

Welcome to the newbies, and Hi mig.

I find myself fighting for every instance that I feel slighted now. I will no longer be quiet and accept that treatment. And even if it doesnt change anything, at least I had my say.

I think if I had the chance to change my screen name, I'd now be "takesnoshit". Hair trigger on the critism or unfairness scale.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 9:02 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you guys--you given me a dose of worth.

You know, lots of people who came out of a childhood like that would become, bitter loveless creatures themselves. You did not.

I wanted to get this cleared up though. I have been that bitter, angry creature. I spent the early years of adulthood as ugly as I could be. I had that hard outer shell and appeared unapproachable--because I was. Nobody was going to hurt me. I was very angry and very critical and very mean.

I've always been someone who loves very deeply, but I didn't behave like I did. And the people I loved probably never knew how much I did. It really is a wonder my H stayed with me through those ugly years.

And that's where I get hung up. If he'd have done this back when I was like that, I would have understood. I would have been pissed! but I was very aware of myself--I just didn't know how to be different. During that time, I know I would have thought, "Now see what you've done!" and as much guff as I'll get for saying this, I would have thought I got what was coming to me. I was that ugly.

But I reached a point where I wanted to be different, and I looked into things about myself and slowly began to be different--less angry, critical and mean--until I reached a point where I thought I was finally happy with who I was and who I was becoming (which I had NEVER been). It didn't happen overnight--but it happened, and I was so pleased with my progress.

So the shock of the betrayal is two-fold for me. That he could have carried off a double life AT ALL, but that he would have done it when I was the best person I'd ever been. If you ask him now--he'll tell you he never paid attention to my changes. He saw me reading books and being more nurturing and loving and kind--letting many things go, and he didn't really think about what was going on. (And also to make clear, he had years of the new me before the affair started.)

And of course, that has set me back plenty--as the feelings of never being good enough are right...there.

But I wanted to make sure you knew that I absolutely WAS that bitter, angry person. I didn't come away from those people (my parents) unscathed. And I've definately slipped since d-day.

[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 9:06 AM, April 4th (Friday)]


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 9:29 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you find yourself reading about your H in the book?

Um, I guess sometimes something will stick out at me, but really I'm reading this just for me. It's something I need to work on and he's doing his own work right now--and I'm LETTING him!
Plus, I've never really been very good at focusing on more than one issue at a time. For example, Christmas shopping, I have to shop for one person at a time. I can't walk down an isle and pick up things for several people. I have to walk the isle six times for six people.

I'm finding this one way more helpful than Co-Dependent No More.

Oh definately. But I think "Codependent No More" is a good starting place to help you recognize your "symptoms". But to recover--you definately need this book.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, April 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know you've said before that you were mean. But you changed that in yourself. I wonder what it was that triggered that change in you? Can you remember what sparked it?

As for your H, if he really didn't notice your changes that's damn sad. But I think it's true of my husband, too. He lived in the moment, and not in a good way. No forethought of what would come next or consideration and therefore insight into what had already occurred. Just, what do I need this moment to decrease the chance of anything uncomfortable happening to me (him). And I guess in his cost-benefit analysis of life what I did for him outweighed my moments of resentment and anger. Because he was used to anger. That was what he had grown up with, so it felt normal to him.

It's weird because my husband is an athlete and he has always pushed himself hard, hard in training. No pain, no gain is something he subscribes to completely. And yet emotionally he was the laziest guy in the world. Any inkling of emotional distress sent him flying in the opposite direction. It's like he couldn't make the leap from the physical to the emotional and see that the same policies apply.


D-day 7/29/04.

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