We haven't taled today. I worked and now he's at school. A viagra is gone. We haven't had sex in a month. He could have taken it thinking we might adn then we didn't but who the hell knows. I guess we'll talk tonight.
How many times can do it? I just don't even know what to do. I have surgery and am scared to death adn now this. I just can't handle another thig to be honest. But I've said that before and lo and behold, anotherthing comes and I have to handle it.
Times like this I wish people knew and I could talk to someone.
Are you in IC? Do you have a close trustworthy friend/relative you can confide in? It doesnt take the problems away, but does help so much with coping.
When you dont know what to do, do nothing. Just be for now, SoL. Focus on the surgery and getting your back healed. Whatever he is or isnt doing, whatever you will and wont do then, CAN wait. Really it can.
I will give you an analogy to think of which helped me in December when I was feeling overwhelmed?
Picture yourself on a train which is not going to stop until you say it can. But you know that you wont stop it for a little while because you cant really cope with whats at the station stops at this time. Just sit on that train and ride it out. Each time you pass a station (an issue), acknowledge it and say that you will come back later, that you CANNOT stop at this time. Just keep doing this SoL until you are feeling stronger.
The station stops will be there when you are stronger.Then you can stop at each one at your own time.
I hope that made sense. I have difficulty with compartmentalising, and that helped.
Thats my take on your sitch.
I hope some of the other Sisters can give you another perspective.
We had a long talk last night. He came up adn started it, which he does now that everything has been out. Says someone at work told him she was on there and he wanted to see for himself. Says it just confirms that he did the right thing since she is the type to go on a sleazy site like that and he knows I woudln't. BTW, she wasn't on there. Says he loves me, wants to be with me. Says the viagra is still there just moved adn the other one that is missing he took a few days ago but I was asleep whe he got home.
We talked a lot about sex. He wanted ot knwo why I don't initiate. I painfully told him how hard it is to be rejected for 2 years and then initiate most of the time and then be told hw it was alwasy 'new' adn different with er adn then be expected to initiate. I purposefully was't doing it. I needed to know that he wanted me and loved me that way. Took a while but he finally understood it a bit I think. I don't know.
I don't knwo what to believe anymore. It does ring true in my gut but who knows. I can't do anything right now either adn I am still watching and checkin things out and he knows that.
He does seem to love me and has been going through some intense therapy to try to get us worked out. Does everything they or I ask of him. But like i told him, seems funny I have nothing to ever explain adn he alwasy seems to.
He still doesn't hink looking her up was an issue. Says it wasn't contact adn he woudl never have contact again. Makes me really not trust his judgement.
So Lost I think your H needs to realise that he should have talked to you about what his colleague mentioned about ow at work and then you could have decided whether to look her up or to leave it. It think it would be possible for him to have a passing interest in what she was doing, it scares me that my h is the same, but still be committed to the M, but I still think it shows he has issues. Why don't you bring it up in MC? and see if your H can see what an issue this is for you. I think LH is right, I like the train analogy, you are just not in a position to deal with this now in terms of decision making, but it does make another area for your H to prove himself over. I think you also need to come to some agreement over the pills. He needs to tell you when he takes one, so that you're not left wondering. I know it's not very romantic, but that is the situation you are in.
At least he volunteered the story - but the trouble is it took him a while to come up with it from your phone call. What is your gut telling you? (((So Lost)))
Keep talking to him. I hope your back feels better soon.
Just a quick note before I head to dr. appt.
As I said I'm reading Facing Codependency and doing it mostly while waiting for my car to be repaired. Great excuse to read 'cause there's nothing else to do.
Anyway, I got to page 100 and had to stop, not because the car was done, but because it hit home so hard, I found myself unable to breathe.
Shame-based codependency. That's me. Don't know why, can't think of a single time when my parents shamed me, but I can see H in most of this book too.
What's scaring the crap out of me is what we've done to our children with OUR dysfunction. The story about how the father verbally abused the child while the mother sat by and did nothing is right out of our home. Not just verbal, but my H took a belt to them (ONCE) as far as I know. And up until a few years ago in therapy, I actually believed that he had hit the furniture and not them. But I did see the welts.
This was during the A time, they were small and I sat downstairs and listened to the belt smack something and did nothing because of my own fear.
My God those years just reinforced everything that was done to me in childhood. Everything.
And now, I feel shame over what I've done to my kids.
Can't wait for IC tonight.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I'm glad I don't have daughters, really don't know what I would say to them about marriage.
He told DS he wants a 4.0 for grades this semester. He hasn't a clue how difficult that is... he flunked out of college his first semester. He calls it "pushing". Like the kid doesn't have any internal motivation. He's a blind 20 year old on the Dean's List. He's doing GREAT, but not by H's standards.
I'm going to ask nicely for him to read the book, just so he can see what we've done to the kids and try and correct that. Maybe he'll see a little of himself in there eventually.
mig, you're stronger than I am. I never set a line in the sand. Well, I did and then didn't enforce it. I can't tell when my H is lying, he's good. and he's never really told the whole truth about anything EVER. Not just the affair stuff, so I don't expect to ever hear it.
Of course he's terrified. He just doesn't realize that it's useless fear. It's not going to change how you act. THey are all really emotional infants.
Have you read the book on dealing with the Unemotional Man? It's all about their fear. But if they don't recognize it, they can't conquer it. Leaves us with littler alternative.
I didn't know that your son was blind. Has there been any thought that that figured into your H's behavior?
Our son is mentally disabled and we both think that it was H's inability to come to terms with that led him to find escape or almost a "new family" which workaholism and OW provided for him. I mean the adrenaline of the affair counteracts the depression and then this "new family" work can be successful where his real family, me and our sons, is irretrievably broken, so why bother putting much energy into it.
FWH adores our disabled son now, but he kept quite distant from him until the A ended. I really noticed a difference and wondered what was going on. This was 1 1/2 years before d-day. DS was 15 then.
I am sorry in reading the last few pages that most appear to be in a bad bad place.
A friend on mine wrote this and it hit me really hard:
"I guess my point is that we have been devalued for years...WE, you and me, We just didn't know it. The devalue piece is old news for our spouses...something they have been quite used to for a very long time. To you, however, it is a new concept which does not match YOUR perception of what you thought your relationship was prior to d-day. "
I am 100% commited to real R. I am afraid that in LTA land that we may just be lucky to keep our families intact in a basically "invisible divorce".
This is not want I want at all. If we together could start together and at least "pretend" it is a new realtionship we can build a loving M like nothing either of us has had before. Complete, full, loving, the whole 9 yards. Their is so much at stake besides just us. Our children deserve a happy and healthy family were they see mommy and daddy love each other.
I believe it can happen but it takes two. I am ready for a better future with us together. That is my dream. I hope it comes true.
Good luck to all and hundreds of hugs (((LTA)))
I told our MC that I felt him pull away after our son was born. Our DD is legally blind too. DS can see, can't see well enough to drive and needs enlarged textbooks,etc. but functions very well.
When our Dd was diagnosed he was wonderful, went to all the dr. appts, MRIs, PETA scans, etc. When he was born that way too, H started to look inward for why. We both did. My mother was adopted so I didn't have a family history for her, but H blamed his excessive drug use as a teen for possibly breaking his genes.
DS was also a little early in conception... he blamed me, even though we weren't using birth control.
He started is business when I was 4 mo. pregnant, insuring that I wouldn't be able to be a stay at home mom with the kids, we needed my benefits. Things went downhill from there. Culminating with my hysterectomy 5 years later. That did it. That put him over the edge and into her arms.
Yeah, I understand it was an escape. She was single, no distractions, no issues with him, no financial dependence. I now understand his denial about the kids' issues, his refusal to participate in helping them with school work, or work with the agencies was probably because he felt guilty and ashamed.
He too "came back" and was amazing with both kids... bought DS a dirt bike and they would go riding. He would drive DD to her BF's house 50 miles a way and back every other weekend without complaint.
That was all 3 years after the affairs supposedly ended and 1 1/2 years before I found out.
What's really sad is their relationship is now strained because they know too. He'll never get back what he had before we knew.
I think people have said before that contact in the mind is still a form of contact
SoL, And he's not keeping it in his mind, he is acting on it. Your H needs to understand that these actions are NOT harmless. He is still keeping her in the M. Ok, so now he can see what a POS she is, there is no reason for him to do this again, right?
And as for that "friend"...
He SHOULD NOT be even having conversations about OW with anyone that is not a C or you. IMHO!!
Whatever, that was a fuck-you moment for me, i've had enough and theres no going back now. I drew my line in the sand
Good for you!
Bear in mind though that the truth seldom comes out in one shot. Maybe doing a timeline together ala Mr and Mrs HurtShirley?
This was a watershed moment for you MIG. And it is empowering. Channel those strong emotions to gear you into the next step, which you seem to be doing i.e focusing on YOU.
I gave H a year to prove his case of R. You have some serious thinking to do now. I hope that your H comes through for real.
I know that my mum tends to beat herself up now when she thinks how she sat by whilst my F beat us up. I know she didnt have much of a choice, as she would have been beaten too.
Its not too late to change the dynamics of your relationship with your kids,Weepy.
It really is not.
Not making excuses, just trying to sort it out. During the A, if asked I wold have told you my gut said he was having an A. i just couldn't admit it or look further. I think i wasn't ready. but now, my gut doesn't tell me that. think he is NC. I think he is trying. I need to just keep talkng and see what happens.
My H refuses to talk about it to the kids. I have. I guess he's still too ashamed.
I'm sure the belt beating will come out in there therapy later in life. I'm not sure they even remember it. But I'm afraid to ask because I don't want to think about how badly they needed me and I wasn't there for them. My first IC said I was probably scared he'd take the belt to me and I think I was. However I do remember telling him if he ever did it again, he'd better sleep with one eye open. As far as I know he didn't. But he thinks it's because the kids "behaved" when he threatened them with it. He thinks it was an effective discipline.
I swear the next time it comes up (and it does now and again) I'm going to clap and tell him just how brave and wonderful a father he was taking on an 8 and 10 year old with a weapon.
But all the pictures of me will have to be from when I was skinny before Dday...
Ukg, where are you?
You didnt leave for AU already, have you?
SoL, listen to your gut.And keep talking. BUT make sure that your focus be on your surgery and your recovery. How is H with helping out when you go to hospital and during your recovery?
Weepy, my F never discussed his LTA with us. We 3 girls knew very well what he did, we saw how he treated mum, and we knew when he carried on with the A long after he told my mum that it was over.
However in 2004, he had a chat with H wherein he told him that he had made a huge mistake having an A, and that if H was having an A, he should stop; that he would end up losing more than he thought. After dday, my F told me that he KNEW that H was having an A. HE said a cheater will always suss out another cheater. He said that even when I defended H at that time, he still knew.
But thats as far as he would go with talking to us about it. He is too ashamed, and he prob knows what little regard we have for him anyway.
I swear the next time it comes up (and it does now and again) I'm going to clap and tell him just how brave and wonderful a father he was taking on an 8 and 10 year old with a weapon
Also, I dont mean to defend your H, but maybe he was brought up by the belt, and knew no better.
Just 3 weeks ago, my F was telling a story about how he used to get beaten up when he was a kid by his teachers and father. He felt really sorry for himself. I get that what was done to him was wrong, but what about what he did to us? Cant he see that taking a belt or a switch to 3 little girls was equally bad? ah well...
Anyway my gripe for today:
Youngest DD has been taking some strain with me going to work. Well actually all the kids are, but she especially has been quite vocal about it. This morning she started bawling when I dropped her off. As I was trying to calm her, another mum came over and said that her DD was the same when she went back to work, so she had to stop because, "They are more important than any job, dont you think?"
Right in front of DD.
Honestly, some people!!
In a pathetic attempt to try to catch up in reverse order:
As I was trying to calm her, another mum came over and said that her DD was the same when she went back to work, so she had to stop because, "They are more important than any job, dont you think?"
LostH - DO NOT let these bastards/bitches get you down. I worked 70 hr weeks in a very stressful high profile job while my first two were babies. If I strangled every person (and not just the moms, dads, stupid ignorant other people, in-laws etc) who made a statement similar to this, I would have a mass grave on my hands. Do not allow them to make you feel bad for finally taking your fate into your own hands and doing something for you!!! If you need a bodyguard for drop-off let me know. I will kick some ass for you.
Weepy, you cannot blame yourself for this. But, what I do have to say is that you seem to be focusing on yourself, your past, your pain, your guilt - but it is about you. I think this is the most I have seen you post about your own introspection and I think it seems really healthy. Keep it going girl.
MIG - good for you. You go girl. Do not back down from this. Draw the line and the sand and bury land mines on the other side. Let him know clearly and without question what the price of anything but the full truth will be. You can do this. I think you sound like you want to do this.
Says the coworker (not friend-I amy have said that) just blurted out to him that she goes on this site and saw ow there.
To all others that I missed, I will keep reading back and try to catch up....
ETA: Weepy - I think it is great he want pics. Please let this be a good place for you two. But keep focusing on yourself.
[This message edited by hurtshirley at 5:40 PM, March 18th (Tuesday)]
Hi Shirley. Thanks for understanding. I so could kick her ass but not in front of DD.But thanks.
SoL, Shirley is right..why is some female blurting out that she goes on some dodge site?? What msg is she hoping to send out to H? He needs to stay away from ALL non-working talk with ALL females, until he learns how to better maintain himself.IMHO.
My UK sisters, Ukg and mumto3, I hope you two have a good day, and enjoy the sun while it lasts.
Have a good day everyone!
I am off to work..having a GHD and wearing my red top!!
He felt really sorry for himself. I get that what was done to him was wrong, but what about what he did to us? Cant he see that taking a belt or a switch to 3 little girls was equally bad?
You know how much our H's are alike? Well, mine would and does the same thing. See, it's not EXACTLY what HE had done, so there's no correlation. They can't seem to make that connection. Like having an apple, a pear and a tomato and not being able to recognize that they're all fruit.
He seemed nervous leaving for work this morning so I asked him about it. He said he was, he was riding with another salesman and he wasn't sure of his role at work yet. He also said he hates being the passenger ( a small indication of his control problem ). He also is going out "naked" (no baseball cap) But I told him he looked cute and he'd be fine.
My agenda for the day... gym and then maybe a job search. I'm going to look for something part time that I can do while on unemployment.
SoL, my dr says its in T6, the impingement and I have to get another MRI. Only this time he wants me in the closed one. I haven't been able to do that without freaking out. So he said he'd medicate me, so now I need a driver to and from.
I had a weird nightmare last night. H wasn't in it. Guess that qualifies as weird already. But it definately related to my reading yesterday. I can't remember all the details because I intentionally didn't concentrate on it. But my D was in danger and I didn't do enough to save her. Woke up right before she "went under". I leaned over and started snuggling with H, to ground myself in reality. He woke up and asked me what was wrong. I told him nightmare but he shouldn't worry, he's not George Clooney. (George Clooney was in it, but can't remember how he was involved, but I'd read a Time magazine article about him in the dr. office yesterday, I get the feeling he was evil in the dream). H says "George Clooney wishes he were me." Even half asleep he's in "coverup" mode.
Also, I dont mean to defend your H, but maybe he was brought up by the belt, and knew no better.
He used to almost "boast" about how his mother would use her high heels as weapons when she couldn't catch them. Would say "look how I turned out, a little discipline never hurt any child." I really can't believe he can't see the connection. When his life was out of control, he tried to use force to control everyone. He got to feel superior in ALL the wrong ways... whores, the low life GF, beating up on his kids, belittling his wife. And like I said before, he still does "beat up" other people when what he's done is so much worse than their deeds.
He said last night that the new NY governor should resign because he admitted he had affairs. I didn't want to get into it because it was too late, but my first thought was "there's a difference between admitting something and getting caught." One shows a certain amount of honor.
But that's a topic for another day...