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User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:50 AM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning everyone. If LostH has gone to the seaside for the day, I hope theyíve all got macís.

Shirley Ė thoughts running any differently now youíve slept on it? You will have people making judgments whether they knew (or suspected) or not. And that judgment may not be swayed by further information from you. And yes, people (esp in the confines of an office or organisation) can be incredibly malicious and callous in they way they talk behind backs. Knowledge will fuel the gossip and you two will be left carrying the hurt when they move on to the next juicy scandal. Be careful. (((Shirley)))

BT. Ouch! Never had it done, but I know itís one of the worst things for pain killers not working. Treat yourself gently this weekend. Use it as an excuse to use brandy as your mouthwash!

Hi FSA, miss having you here. I remember your IC taking your S thoughts a bit too seriously? That you were (just like so many here) wanting it all to stop, to not be true, to wake up one day and find it was a bad dream. But then the morning comes and it all starts over again and sometimes itís just too much. So whatís happened in the last couple/few weeks? And I hope sheís not going to throw that ďdevil in your headĒ as an excuse for your Hís behaviour ÖÖ

Iím still avoiding ADís, avoiding making that docís appt even, but I keep feeling so damn low. Todayís overriding emotion is humiliation and shame. Why? I didnít have the A. But Iím walking along the street next to my H and I want the ground to swallow me up. I feel like Iím tarred and feathered or wearing a scoldís bridle. I have a huge sign saying ďhereís stupidĒ. Kwim? Complete humiliation day. And I canít even tell H how I feel b/c that would risk looking pathetic.

So Iím going to just get busy and get on with my day. Iíve done the gym and that hasnít made me feel better. Maybe some clearing out of drawer will help.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 7:14 AM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good morning.

Ukg, beach is for next weekend. Weather this weekend is going to be lousy...but whats new in London!

Why are you feeling ashamed? For staying? For giving your M a go at R? For wanting to see if your family can be held together?
Or are you ashamed of H's past actions?

***
((((((FSA))))))
I also hope that Mr FSA steps up to the plate.It took over a year for H to agree to IC, and that didnt go anywhere (I blame that IC).HOwveer the one he is with now, is doing some good work with him. I wish they would hurry up already, but I know that he has to work at is own pace.
The relief that I am not responsible for him or his IC or his "work" is so profound. It allows me to focus more on me.

I sure wish though that you guys had a wider choice of ICs. What do you think of also giving him the list of books that are recommended here esp for WS? Then the ball is in his court.

***
Ukg, I just had my ADs upped.
Why are you resistant to them? Yes, I am on your case today!
Enjoy your shopping with H!

***
BT, speedy recovery wishes.
The only good thing about going to the dentist, is that for some reason, no matter what the problem, my mum often gave us custard to eat after.
So enjoy your custard!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh my!! You guys have been busy in here! Thanks to all of you for the wonderful birthday wishes. I had a PERFECT day!

Wow! I'm really liking the tone in here. All this talk about empowerment and our strength as individuals. It's refreshing and inspiring.

Going over the pain and living in the pain of this can become an all consuming cycle. I know, I've been there. But at some point you have to poke your head out of the pain cycle and look at the larger meaning of what you were brought to this crossroad in your life for. What is life trying to jolt you into discovering about your deepest, wisest and most resilient self? I personally don't believe any of us came into this by mistake. We were brought to our knees to help us see who we are not being in the world. We get a front row seat at seeing who we are not (obsessive, livid, mean, raging, self depricating, afraid - whatever, you fill in the blank)so we can better see who we really are. Being a BS is a huge catalyst for transformation.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to negate or minimize any of the pain we experience/have experienced but like the optimistic kid that was put in a room full of horseshit with a shovel who dug and dug and dug knowing there was a pony under that pile of shit somewhere, I've always known there's a pony under my shit too. You can dig for painful details and pointless minutia or you can dig for that bright shiny pony. Dig for the pony ladies (and gent). It makes the journey worth it.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:17 AM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just what have you been on OTC??? You sound like youíre a runaway train Ö.. But Iím thinking that you are on a natural high after a great bíday. I guess you can always chuck the horse shit on the garden. Btw, who ate all the cake?

LostH Ė Oops. Got the date wrong! Youíre not going to S-o-S for the beach are you? Have the council been shipping in sand?

Iím just feeling crushed by it today. Thatís all. Shame that it happened, shame that I didnít see it, shame that it was inevitable, shame that he picks up the pieces of his life and carries on, shame that I canít ďdealĒ with it, shame of what people would say if they knew, even shame that I feel humiliated when I shouldnít. Iíve got a Ďtoon mallet that says ďstupidĒ steadily driving me into the ground Ė thump, thump, thump.

Washerís bleeping at me. Back later.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hope610
♀ Member
Member # 16161
Default  Posted: 10:44 AM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley i have this problem too. Everyone loves my husband. That's why I fell in love with hime 29 years ago. Not many would beleive what he had done or the extent of it. I think many would minimize it and say but he's still with you aren't you the lucky one. I have even heard how a counselor and a priest feel so bad for all the suffering and remorse he has to live with. Sometimes the sympathy he can ellicit from disclosing only partial truths can cause me to feel resentful.

Posts: 99 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Michigan
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 10:49 AM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Morning all....

Well, we must have been our MC's last appt last night because we were there for 1 1/2 hours. She's usually pretty strict about the 45 minute thing.

H and I started at home... told him that I was freaked out and he started with the "are you going to beat me up for the rest of my life about this?" crap. I just told him I beat him up when I sensed a lack of empathy, understanding. We were screaming at each other and I was in tears when we walked into MC's office.

She saw how upset we were and got right to it this time... no preliminaries.

I told her about the sex thing, the Spitzer trigger, the fact that he ignored or belittled my feelings, etc. He told her he felt helpless, powerless to do anything... again, still. I told her what upset me most was that he had made this decision arbitrarily without consulting or discussing it with me.. You know "hon, I'm really freaked out about this new job thing. I'm under a lot of pressure to perform since you're not working. It's not you." kind of thing.

She acknowledged our "different places" again and then asked me to go through the pain of my parent's split, etc. She asked me how I handled my father's infidelity and I told her by cutting him out of my life. She asked if that worked for me. I told her that's the way we handled things... cheat, you're done. AND his A only had started a few months before my mother found out. It wasn't YEARS. Then she asked me if I wanted to cut H out of my life. I said no, but that I didn't know how to accept what he'd done without feeling like I was giving it my stamp of approval.

She told H that his infidelity cut me to the core. That I felt like half my marriage was lived in a lie, that it wasn't what I thought it was and she told him I had PTSD. Then she explained to him what that was. Intellectually he "gets" it, but emotionally he doesn't. I kept asking him how I felt... he said he had no clue and I said "that means you don't GET it".

She asked H to describe his "stress" level, the one that has kept him from being interested in sex. I listened and she asked me if I believed him and I said no. Well, that PART of my brain believed it was possible, but the other part was all wrapped up in "he's never handled stress that way before, it's always been the exact opposite."

Anyway, he says he has a more rounded attitude about our relationship... that is NOT all about sex and couldn't I appreciate the other aspects of what he was doing, that he felt it was never enough. And again, what do I really want?

I told him. What I really want is impossible... for him to go back and undo the past.

He told her these triggers seem to happen around holidays and that I ruin all of them with it. And I told him that he'd ruined them and every holiday I remember how he ruined them and why. He then cancelled our birthday dinner for tonight. Said he didn't feel like going any more.

It was a good session finally. Whe we left he grabbed me in the elevator and held me and just told me he loved me over and over. I told him I loved him, but what I wish more was to find a way to forgive him.

He initiated sex this morning.

I'm just so angry and he knows it. Angry all the time and I have no outlet. He is taking the brunt of it.

So I'm going to take my IC's advise and start meditating or something. She's going to start EMDR with me on Tuesday. The MC said that's probably a good treatment for me, since I can't seem to separate anything that happens from the trauma I suffered. That I can't seem to separate it from my emotional response.

So maybe that will help. I don't know. I know I am still sad and feel "false" in my own skin when I don't show my emotions. But I can't be the only one trying to change the way I react to things. He has to too. His actions can't depend on my mood or actions, just the way I can't base my mood on how he's behaving.

I want off! But my brain isn't listening to me.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 12:27 PM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy - I'm so glad you had a successful session last night. It was long overdue. I am also happy that Mr. Weepy was affected by it and responded to you in the way he did.
Something in what you wrote hit a button for me. You mentioned that in the situation with your father you were taught that once you cheat "you're done" and that you handled his infidelity by "cutting him out of your life." My question then is, Have you ever forgiven your father for his infidelity? BTW, is he still alive and if so, what is your relationship with him?
If these questions are too personal, please don't answer them and forgive me if I've crossed boundaries.
I did want to share my personal background a little with you though because I was wondering if this might be the difference in our situations.
I know religion is a no-no here but my bringing this up is not intended as a religious bent necessarily just simple facts about the way I was brought up.
First, I was raised in a strict, Irish Catholic home and had 12 years of Catholic schooling. My childhood neighborhood was also very Irish Catholic. We had a neighbor who was a lovely woman, someone I had a great deal of respect for, who was very religious but not a fanatic. I will never forget something she said to me when I was only about 8 or 10 but it stuck with me my entire life and I have often thought about this when I was struggling. (God, I hope this doesn't come across as preachy ) She said that every time I pray the Our Father I ask God to forgive me but I also add, as we forgive those who trespass against us. She told me to remember that when I have a hard time forgiving someone who has wronged me. She said, How can you ask God to forgive you if you don't forgive others. You know, honestly, I never forgot this and it has been a prayer that holds more meaning to me than any other.
When I discovered what my H had done to me, this haunted me because I knew that forgiveness was expected of me especially if I was going to move on in my M. I just asked that He give me the time to do this but I always believed it was my responsibility to forgive. I think in some strange way, this gave me the permission I needed in order to move on in my life and my M.
I told him I loved him, but what I wish more was to find a way to forgive him.

Weepy, we all need to find a way to forgive but I think if you weren't taught how to you have an added disadvantage. My ability to forgive my H has set me free. My H had an 8 year LTA with a woman who he brought repeatedly into my home and my life. It was not easy, believe me. But I do thank God every day that he gave me the strength and desire to forgive. I have to add that I'm still working on you-know-who. I don't know when that will happen but I do hope one day to be free of my anger and disgust of her. Forgiveness really does set US free. And if that is what is holding you back then admitting that last night and acknowledging that you want to forgive him just might be the beginning of your R. And a good C will help you to get there.
(((Weepy)))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy,
You know "hon, I'm really freaked out about this new job thing. I'm under a lot of pressure to perform since you're not working. It's not you." kind of thing.

I donít think thatís the issue really, do you? You got your payoff and you NEED this time. Youíve effectively earned for a respectable chunk of this year from what youíve told us here. Grabbing at straws or is scared you wonít work again. And, so what? Now is what matters for you. For you both. This is serious discussion and reflection time. Have you told him about your feelings of calling it a day? Have you had that talk yet, if not, when? You were pretty determined about it.

how to accept what he'd done without feeling like I was giving it my stamp of approval.

Thatís how I view my choice to stay sometimes. I should think itís a common feeling whether ONS, multiples, LTAís, pros, if one chooses to try with a m that has been smashed by infidelity.

And weíd all like to rewrite history, but we canít. So we have to deal with it. But itís easier to deal with facts and truth than supposition and lies.

And (slap me if Iím being too personal here!), how was sex this morning? Youíve just one matter of fact line when youíve been harping on and on and on ÖÖ So, how was it weepy? (she asked, shyly)

Think it might be a few days for your brain to calm down. But youíve been doing this long enough to know that!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 12:49 PM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good response FNF, as always. When am I gonna get wise? Guess I just wasnít born with it.

Itís a big thing though, forgiveness. Iíve never had to question it before, itís something that I do naturally. I shrug my shoulders and think the hurt theyíve done me is their problem, not mine. So, forgive and move on. If theyíre that bad as human beings, then I think well, I donít need them in my life, so thatís their loss. Iím just a kind of easy person. I donít even have to contemplate forgiveness most of the time. But when faced with someone who does something knowing it will hurt if you knew, and still carried on is so much more difficult. It was a choice they made. Know one thing my FWH said? I will never test you again. I find it really hard to get my head round that one. Itís as though he has bound and gagged me and dragged me through open sewers, across a baking desert, over broken glass, every which way just to see if I could take it, to see what I was made of.

And the image that keeps returning lately (Iím sure Iíve used this before) is of Caligula ripping open the belly of his sister, Drusilla (I think), to look at their baby growing inside her. He was going to put it back, all he wants to do is have a look. Heís puzzled and bewildered when they die. (I donít think deifying her really makes up for it.) My H did not need to rip me open to see the love inside. It was just there, safe and warm. He will be just as perplexed if, after all this time, my love and our m just die from the pain of it all.

ETA I meant get wise as in wisdom. Poor choice of words. But I think I also need to get wise as in not so stupid, but bit late for that.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 1:00 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 1:28 PM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question then is, Have you ever forgiven your father for his infidelity? BTW, is he still alive and if so, what is your relationship with him?


Too personal, you've got to be kidding me!

My father is dead. He died in 1998. I never had a real relationship with him once he left the house. Christmas to see his grandkids. When he was dying we went down to see him (he'd moved to DE with OW and her kids). We said our goodbyes. When he was buried, we went for the funeral and then stopped to watch a model airplane club fly. Wasn't too upset I guess.

I forgave him in May 2005. On the ride home from the shore with H. We'd just had an amazing weekend and were listening to Don Henley on the way back. He was holding my hand (which he never did) and Heart of the Matter came on and I just started crying. Told H that I think I had forgiven my father. Things were perfect in my life and I wanted that hate and anger gone too.

3 mo. later Dday hit. Making me feel like a double idiot for forgiving him.

And (slap me if Iím being too personal here!), how was sex this morning? Youíve just one matter of fact line when youíve been harping on and on and on ÖÖ So, how was it weepy? (she asked, shyly)

Again too personal, Here?

It was fine. No fireworks, but very tender and sweet. That's all I needed.

BTW, I've been sorting pictures this morning and looked back and in 1992-93 before the A started, I was no svelte thing then either... so it's not my weight. Yea.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It looks as though you have pulled some threads together, weepy. Hang on in there. Thereís some salvage, donít you think? I hope itís the type youíre looking for. Big hugs to you, darlingí (Cockney accent, cos thatís where Iím from) ((((weepy))))))
(I haven't found those other smiley things to put in here, altho I have them for my emails, so that's arms around you and big kiss on your cheek!)


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 8:49 PM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

But at some point you have to poke your head out of the pain cycle and look at the larger meaning of what you were brought to this crossroad in your life for. What is life trying to jolt you into discovering about your deepest, wisest and most resilient self? I personally don't believe any of us came into this by mistake.

OTC, I totally agree with this. I don't think any of us are here by accident. I believe in my soul that there is a reason that I am here. There always is. Someday--may not be soon, but someday--I believe it will become crystal clear why this happened to me--and I believe my husband will have the same experience.

At some point, we just have to accept that we are where we are supposed to be, taking the journey we are supposed to take. The potential growth from this can be awe inspiring--IF YOU LET IT BE. We all have the ability to become very strong, insightful, intelligent, compassionate, caring women with an abundance of empathy from our experience.

Another saying I really love that I think applies here is:

Happiness is a choice.

I believe this to be true. Yes, I think that we all need to grieve our losses and work through our pain (and I think the time that takes will be different for each one of us), but I also believe that at some point we need to start letting it go and grow from it. If not, we are choosing to hold onto it. We are choosing the misery. Happiness is up to each one of us, and I think it just becomes a matter of how bad we want it. It really is that simple.

fnf, you mentioned not ever learning how to forgive. I think this is a very key point. I was also never shown how to forgive--it wasn't ever modeled for me. But I am determined to learn, because I have a very clear picture of what it means NOT to. It's toxic to no one else but me...and I do believe it would eventually kill me someday. I don't want to be bitter and angry and then just die. I want my life to mean something. Among other things, I want to leave a legacy of strength in forgiveness to my daughter--so that SHE will have had it modeled for her.

Forgiveness really does set US free.

I believe this with all my heart. I also believe that along with happines--forgiveness is also a choice. It's really not a matter of "Can I?"--it's a matter of "Will I?"

[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 8:54 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 9:25 PM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I also believe that along with happines--forgiveness is also a choice.

It's really not a matter of "Can I?"--it's a matter of "Will I?"

You are right, run...
So, so deeply, deeply true.

After all the tears, the screaming (both inside and outside) of your head, the obsessive look-backs to all that was a sham and deception, all the feelings of outrage of what was done and how your life has been irreparably and unwillingly altered......we all come to the same destination and choice.

Will we forgive them and forgive the past???

The "Can we" is absolutely hinged on the "Will we".....poignantly and critically.


and I do believe it would eventually kill me someday. I don't want to be bitter and angry and then just die.

This made me think of my deceased MIL. She was a bitter, emotion-warped woman in her later years. She wore her life trials like a crown of thorns. But inevitably those thorns cut into her soul. Her senior years were dark and joyless. She died an empty, bitter woman and her children had long lost any hope of seeing light in her.

Like you, run, I do not intend to leave that legacy to my children and their children.

I know there will be days of unwanted retrospection....like yesterday, actually.. ....
When the "realities and look-backs," officially called triggers here at SI....will rear their nasty ugly heads.

And realistically....How can they not happen from time to time??
That's like having a major car-wreck and not thinking of it occasionally, while driving.

But to stay stuck there when they do happen is like unwilling or accidentally stepping in quicksand...and then not instinctively pulling your foot out before you sink deeper.

We can either be the "walking wounded" for life with chronic disabilities......
Or be people who survived, and are living life with intention. (choice)

Heartfelt hugs to all

[This message edited by numb and scared at 9:32 PM, March 15th (Saturday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 10:56 PM, March 15th (Saturday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

It's that simple for me. The day came where I said, "Enough!" and CHOSE my way out of suffering. Is life perfect? Is it all said and done and all is well now? Nope, I still have my days but they are minimal now and the impact is minimal because I chose it to be so. Run, such wise words!!! It's all about choice.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 4:23 AM, March 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Weepy))))

Please can you ask your IC to factor in your father's infidelity and the subsequent handling of it, when doing the EMDR with you, if she hadnt already made that link. Its apparent that your past-past traumas have been ingited by your present-past ones.

And you probably know this Weepy, but I will say anyway. Before the woman in you starts healing from H's As, the little girl in you has to to be healed first.

You forgiving your F just months before dday, was not a coincidence. I believe that was divine intervention. Him cheating was NOT your fault. The poor way in which your parents handled it thereafter was NOT your fault.Weepy the adult may know this, but I wonder if Weepy the little girl, does?

****

Forgiveness really does set US free. And if that is what is holding you back then admitting that last night and acknowledging that you want to forgive him just might be the beginning of your R.

Thats what I want too, FNF. I also wasnt taught the art of forgiveness.Unlike Weepy's family, we didnt cut the person out. We hid our hurt and pain from the public, and then just carried on per usual. And that pain/bitterness grew and festered inside us, but we NEVER let people see. Now and then, it will rear its ugly head when we reacted abit OTT to an action, but we quickly pushed it back in.

No matter what they say, I can see now that my parents have never forgiven their parents for their actions, my parents have never forgiven each other, and we girls, in turn, have repeated that legacy. I get a pang in my heart when my youngest DD (6) yells that she hates H, or when DS asks me why is H so mean in a tone that holds his confusion and hurt, or when eldest DD (7) a few months ago, yelles at H to leave mummy alone.THey have each said painladen words to me too, but in diff ways.

And I know that whether H and I stay together, I will have to forgive him for my sake and theirs, and most def his as well.And I will have to teach them how to forgive H (and me)as well.

I don't want to be bitter and angry and then just die. I want my life to mean something

Or be people who survived, and are living life with intention. (choice

HEar hear Run and NAS!

***

Sometimes the sympathy he can ellicit from disclosing only partial truths can cause me to feel resentful
.

Hope, this can really sting.
My H used to do that before (and still does it sometimes)and they would all see this incredibly strong upright man who made it despite his FOO. I think my mum still holds onto that image of him a little. I have learned to ignore it somewhat, because I KNOW.

I wonder what would happen if you did challenge one of H's partial truths? Would you embarass him enough to make it a deterrant, or would you come across as being bitter?

****
(((((Ukg)))))

Iím just feeling crushed by it today. Thatís all. Shame that it happened, shame that I didnít see it, shame that it was inevitable, shame that he picks up the pieces of his life and carries on, shame that I canít ďdealĒ with it, shame of what people would say if they knew, even shame that I feel humiliated when I shouldnít. Iíve got a Ďtoon mallet that says ďstupidĒ steadily driving me into the ground Ė thump, thump, thump

You know each of those sentences are glaring at me to challenge them, dont you Ukg?
You didnt see it because you werent looking because you believed in him.

He is not picking up the pieces, from what you say, he isnt even looking at them.Picking up the pieces, IMHO, means examing each one, and then trying to slide them into the new jigsaw puzzle. He seems like he has just brushed them into a bag and thinks he is creating a picture.Nah uh!

You ARE dealing with it.Every day since dday. Dealing with it doesnot mean getting over it already, ok?

If people knew, only the ignoramuses would judge you. No matter how strong and capable you are, you are NOT responsible for H's actions.

Why be ashamed for feeling humiliated? We all feel/have felt that post dday. NEver be ashamed of your feelings.

That toon mallet has your hand on it. Why are you beating and punishing yourself up, Ukg? Come on! Self flaggelation is like SO 19 Century!
But really, what is eating you up inside, that you are not acknowledging?

And the last one, my favourite, that is was "inevitable"
When are you going to get that out of your head?? You have bought into one of their justifications!

When I was 15, I fell in deeply madly in love with this boy (my only BF before H0. It was one of those "eyes met across the crowded room" and we were both hopelessly smitten. Of course the path of true love (lol) never runs smooth, and when his folks found out, they banned him from seeing me. They didnt particularly like me parents.So we did a Romeo and Juliet, and saw each other behind their backs, just biding out time, till we were old enough.However one fateful day in June 1989, we were caught again, and put under house arrest.He was beaten up. It was quite a traumatic time for everyone, alot of fighting between parents and other family members. My future FIL even acted as a gobetween between the parents.It was decreed that the relationship was over, and if he ever broke NC, he will be kicked out of the family. We never got to say goodbye or anything. Just like that, OVER.My heart broke and it took me years before I even considered going out with anyone again.Over that time, we still caughht glimpses of each other at community functions, closely watched by parents.

Would you say Ukg that we were destined to be with each other? That it is inevitable that our paths would cross and we renew our relationship?

One week after he married a lovely girl, H and I were engaged and then married 6 months later. We both attended each other's functions, and I know we were both thought the same thing, that we were happy that the other had found happiness.

I dont know why I am telling you this story, Ukg, but I think you have this romantic notion in your head about H's and OW's relationship. H told me after dday that he always suspected that I had "done something" with exBF during the M, that it was understandable given our history and that he had always felt that he was second choice, and exBF and I shared "true lurrve". Huh??

You need to let go of that misconception too, Ukg.
You WERE NOT second choice.
If he really wanted to, your H could have married OW. He didnt, because he knew that you were by far, the better deal!!!
That was probably the last time he ever made a wise intelligent decision!

****
Whew!!! I need some tea and carrot cake now.Yes, for breakfast.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, March 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happiness is a choice.

It may well be that, in order to be happy, I will choose to live without him rather than be unhappy with him. If I canít move on, that is the way I will have to go. Draw a line in the sand (FWH uses that phrase a lot), pack up this m, leave it behind and step out onto a new road.

Oh, Lost. This business ďinevitabilityĒ, it was. He had been accepted at a v prestigious uni, I donít know if she applied to the same one or not, but she was accepted at another highly regarded uni 120 miles from his. This is 1974. She tried desperately (from what I gather), crying and the such like for him to apply to the same uni as her. He did and was accepted. The parents found out and persuaded him to not give up this opportunity, so he went back to his first choice. They managed the relationship for about 5 terms. She started ďdatingĒ the guy who later became her H, flaunted it in front of him and gave him the ultimatum: Move your degree course and study with me. He wouldnít. He didnít dump her, she didnít dump him. To me, it was glaringly obvious. She had called his bluff and it had backfired. There was no going back without losing face. He never saw it that way. He met me probably about 14/15mths later.

We met her and her H by chance a few years later (I donít really remember when, but I DID remember the incident, so did she). We were having a quiet drink out with his parents and they were there. H went up to them and chatted for a bit. MIL stated that she was an ex-gf and that she was too intense and he was so much better of when it finished. Or something along those lines.

I donít think he has ever dumped a gf. He seemed to think that, eventually, they would ďget itĒ and he wouldnít have to do the dirty deed and thatís probably a big part of why this A went on for so long Ė he lacked the courage to end it. He has admitted that he never said enough, no more, I donít want to see you again, he never said it was over. For the second time.

So (after this ridiculously long ramble), it was unfinished dialogue in that it was never ďoverĒ. It didnít really finish this time, either. All he had said to her was that the A would be over once I knew. He didnít tell her which way he was going to jump given the choice, so she was STILL waiting, even after DDay. He was still texting her not to worry, everything would be alright. WTF did he want her to read into that? He was still chatty and responsive Ė hardly the reaction of someone who wants you out of their life, is it? Heíd rather see me bleed all over the floor than tell her to fuck off b/c he didnít want to see her ever again.

And so. It is not finished. It is not over. The door is still open. If I D him, he will turna round and walk back thro it, sure as eggs is eggs.

Time for a shower. And think about what Iím going to do with this Japanese student coming next week when my Japanese speaking son is in Australia. Tsk.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, March 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ukg, is this what you need to move to the next step? That H once and for all, without any shadow of doubt, tells her, "Our relationship is over.I want to be with Ukg now, as I did when I married her. She is, and always has been, the one for me. I was just too stupid to realise it. I will spend every moment for the rest of my life, trying to win her heart back , if she lets me. Goodbye."

or something along those lines.

I felt similar Ukg, with both OW. One just faded in and out of his life. The other one prob thought that once the dust settled down, after dday, that he would be back again. Part of the letter we sent in December to them,w as to address this, and for him to say to them unequivocably that he regreted deeply ever meeting them, and that he is choosingus over them, and lastly, goodbye forever.

Since writing letters seems to be a talent of your H, why dont you give him this very practical and very do-able task??Something she can hang on to for the next 20 years of her pathetic life?
And esp now that her H knows and she is prob running around like a headless chicken...what better timing??!!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, March 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He sent the NC letter (finally) through the solicitor back in Nov06. It said

ďOur client informs us that this contact is unwanted and is never going to be reciprocated. Our client is in the process of rebuilding his marriage, which is based on their mutual love and not out of a sense of duty as you have suggested in the past. Our client acknowledges his former relationship with you and understands that you are upset but he wishes us to re-iterate that the relationship is over.Ē

It was the only way to get her to stop. She had to turn up on our doorstep before he would do it. He was advised to send the letter by his bf, our counsellor and I practically begged him to do it. He didnít want to. He didnít want to hurt her.

I just wonder if his choice was made under pressure, that my presence was stopping him from having a life with her. I think that he should have at least tried. I suggested it to him. I suggested he moved out for a while (should have been stronger on that one) Okay, I probably wouldnít have stayed around for him to return to if it all went pear-shaped, but at least hewould have known for certain. And I wouldnít feel so degraded.

I need time out.

Btw, have you read Jenny82ís post in General? ďThe professional way to protect a marriageĒ condoning the use of prostitutes. I have, of course, entered my 2pís worth.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, March 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today is 1st antiversary. Or the way I prefer to look at it (as I decided while lazing in bed until 11.30am this morning!) the day I finally discovered that my H was going to stay with me. Neither of us knew it on the day but now, looking back we both realise this is actually what was going to happen. All the times he had not told me previously over the years were all because he didn't want to leave but he couldn't work out how to fix everything either, so it all seemed easier to carry on as things were.

I just wish we'd been able to get here without all the extreme pain he put me through in the 6 months after dday, that is actually when all the real damage was done and is the hardest to deal with now.

Still contrary to what I expected I must be in the upswing of the rollercoaster ride because I actually feel ok, quite positive about the future actually. Although i do realise that there seems to be a split between those who think 2nd antiversary was better and those who think they felt worse. So I'll not count my chickens before they're hatched. But for today, I actually feel quite good.

*******

Shirley on the friends knowing thing, loads of people in my life know, ALL of our families (including cousins, aunts, uncles thanks to my mum telling everyone - although not quite the whole story), mums at school know, old university friends know thanks to me after dday not being able to control the tears and then when people asked what was the matter I just blurted it out. So I live in a world where pretty much everyone I see on a day to day basis knows. Overall I think for me this is a good thing, but it is a double edged sword. It means other people feel quite happy to pass judgement/comment on your life and although they are all well meaning they don't always understand (even my sister this week passing comment on the police chief who died here who had been having a LTA that had just been exposed said and I quote "she (his wife) can't have been giving him all the sex he needed" This is from someone who really knows my situation intimately, from how many times a week h and I have had sex at times to what I have learned on this journey and she still doesn't get it. You can be sure we then spent nearly an hour discussing how wrong she was on this point. I think she's got it now!

I agree with OtC I may well have been one of these people before, and so, thank goodness, I'm not one of those people now. I have dday to thank for that, I no longer judge people or situations in the way I used to. (At least I am much more aware and try very hard not to)

One friend of my h's actually said to H that he thought I had always treated H coldly and he wasn't surprised (ie. I deserved it). But actually it turned out that although he himself wasn't having an affair, he was still holding a torch for an exgf from before he was married 14 yrs ago (sorry ukg) Even my H got angry with this friend and thinks he is stupid.

I must admit that it is actually a relief when we visit friends who do not know anything. Because then for just a while we can be normal and I feel a little bit like my old self.

So I would guess that what I am saying in a very long winded way is that for me it is a good thing for other people to know, but that you really need to think about the consequences of each individual and Lost, UKg and the others are right, don't expect them to have any particular reaction, you may be deeply surprised, sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a disappointing way.

******

Weepy, you know when I said I wanted to take you by the hand and lead you in a different direction I wasn't trying to say that you should be getting over it or anything it was purely to say, I wanted to desperately try and help you find yourself again and decide what Weepy needed by focusing on Weepy. That may mean that your H's behaviour has ended your marriage or it may mean that you decide you do want to give him the biggest gift he will ever get in his lifetime and R.

Whichever way you go, you will be supported. You are wonderful Weepy, please believe that.

I agree with the others you have been so badly hurt by infidelity in your life, it's not just your h, you were only a child when your father left, the trauma that has left you with must be immense. For your h to do what he has after your childhood experiences must be so painful. Have you ever really looked into this?



Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 2:43 PM, March 16th (Sunday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

mum, I hope your day was without triggers. You are a wonderful person and I trust your H showed his appreciation. Did he ďacknowledgeĒ the day, or was it a day like any other now that his life is back on track? Maybe itís just a date you choose to keep to yourself.

Like you, I wanted to tell EVERYBODY! And, let me tell you, it has been soooo hard to keep my trap shut at times. I have left my profile on FRu with the ref to his A and her being his old flame, but his old school friends are unlikely to see it Ė esp now his name is off (yes!). I see no reason to change it back, after all, Iím not married in spirit, so why say otherwise? But a long lost friend who left her number with my Mum read it Ė so there are a few down where my parents live who will prob find out, but itís unlikely anyone will tell Mum or Dad. And they donít use the internet much anyway. Mostly people have been sympathetic to us both Ė to him for falling for his former love and for me b/c I donít deserve it.

Every day that passes by is another where OW is consigned further into history.

And my increasing clarity about my Hís A and ability to deceive will let me see where my future lies.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
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