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User Topic: Long Term Affaris - X
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At that point, where you truly realize that his screwed-up quotient is top tier, is when you need to detach. Right there. That is the point. And you need to make it clear that you now require him to figure out the ins-and-outs of his crapped up psyche and fix them. You can listen to interim reports on his progress, but you can't do it for him. Not if you're going to succeed.

BT- do you think this detachment comes hand in hand with the anger, rage and disgust. A few weeks ago the anger started building and reached a fever pitch over the last two weeks. At the same time I got to this point where I couldn't care less if he stayed or went. Is this part of the detachment process? What are the next steps? I don't have IC or MC for the next 2-3 weeks due to vacations. Any recommendations on things I can read for me?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 5:07 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

They're just "FUCKED" UP!!!

But so am I. Do you ever feel like there isn't enough time in your life anymore to fix what needs to get fixed?

Run, dear sister......You are only as fucked up as you identify with.
Being and living with a fucked up person is insidiously contagious...
if you allow that illusion to be your reality.

The very fact that you can see his acute dysfunction is testament to your sanity and innate stability.
If you were truly in league with his level of dysfunction, you couldn't see the discrepancy.

Distance yourself, run.

Look at YOU, not him.

Honor those needs and wants, those deep "run" personal goals and ideologies.

Search ways to develop who you are and want to be.

Crudely put...Fuck "him."

[This message edited by numb and scared at 5:09 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)]


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so fiercely codependent that I'm scared to death of letting it go and letting it be his to deal with.
Run darlin, this is your dragon to sleigh. IMO this is a crossroad for you to make choices about who you are meant to be. Letting all else fall away and focusing on this, and this alone, is what gets you there. And no, I don't feel I don't have enough time in life to work all this out because this IS life! It's a constant journey of self discovery and working it out. There's no finish line in this race!

(

Here come the excuses...) It's more than him just "not doing it"--he has never been given the skills to even know what "it" is.
Oh, so coey hon! C'mon, he was smart enough to figure out how to fuck around on a brilliant chick like you for how long? Don't give me this crap that he can't figure "it" out on his own. Believe me, each and every one of our H's have blown their cover on the helpless dude who can't find his way or figure "it" out. We're all pretty smart and sharp women here and somehow they were all bright enough to fuck around and figure out the ropes of infidelity! You know I'm saying this with love Run. Cut the apron strings sweetie. Time for him to grow up and be a PARTNER not a PASSENGER!
You're worth fighting for hon and if he isn't willing to someone out there is!

ETA: Oh yeah - and you're not hopeless and don't let me hear you say that again Run!!!! You're a brilliant, caring, kind and able woman who ANY man is lucky to have and ESPECIALLY your H!

[This message edited by OneToughCowgirl at 5:18 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)]


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 5:39 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cut the apron strings sweetie.

aaaggh. You are right again! I was his fucking mother figure and I babied him. What an idiot I WAS. Not going there again. He is literally living in the dog house (detached garage!) and doing his own laundry. And, I will never, ever do his laundry again. The fucker came home with cum stains in his shorts and I washed them not knowing.

No Mother here! Just one pissed off junior tribe member coming out of her cocoon madly flapping her wings to unfurl them so she can fly on her own.

e: typos again.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 5:41 PM, March 5th (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 5:48 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Go Shirley! Go Shirley! Go Shirley! It is good to see you getting into the anger. It hits all of us and you will move to another stage at another time when it's time. This is why we keep saying to give it time. Anger is an incredible catalyst for growth. Letting it come to the surface will bring about a lot of awareness for you. Let it out here! We all understand!And we particularly enjoy it when it's humorous and laden with profanity!!

Having you wash his cum stains in his shorts!!!! The fucker!!!


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just one pissed off junior tribe member coming out of her cocoon madly flapping her wings to unfurl them so she can fly on her own.

Ah, SHIRLEY !!!!!!

I can see those shoulders back, boobs saluting the heavens....daring anyone to get in your way!!!!!

Welcome to the Land of "Survivors."

Come on, everyone...this current spa (designed by run, I might add) is a virtual "sweat-lodge" to rid your souls of LTA toxins and OW sludge..


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all - it feels so good to get this OUT! I wish UK girl was still up and ready to roll.

Okay, spa time. I am going to have a long, very hot shower, put on a robe (no really I am going to do this IRL), and hunker down with the kids on the "pod" to watch Idol. (We call the giant couch the pod because it looks innocuous but will eat you alive...you get in there and never come out again!!)

May check in later if I haven't been swallowed by the "pod".


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No Shirl, I don't think the rage comes hand-in-hand with the detachment. But I think it can help get you there.

If I were you, this is when I would chuck all the relationship books and start focusing on the Shirley only books.

Even if you don't think you're co-dependent, read Pia Mellody. Any of her books, but particularly Facing CoDependence and The Intimacy Factor. Also, there is a great book about the special self-esteem issues faced by women from the south. I'll have to search for the title, but I'll find it for you. In fact, before I go to bed I'll put together a real list for you.

Right now, I'd like to swim a couple dozen laps and then sit in the sauna for a bit.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 10:04 PM, March 5th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HI all

Still can't read SI at work right now and haven't had a chance to read but I scanned slightly.

Fing F F Fing F F F. How's that for using the F word?

Feeling better, even have a slight smile going. Pulled up the website for the tapping, whatever you call it. Haven't had time to read that either. But I will find some time.

((((Run))))
((((Shirley))))
Think I caught you two having a rough time. Sorry for missing others, I just barely scanned.

FSA
Found a Smile Almost


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:15 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Goodness!!! Where is everyone? Have we been barred due to too much swearing? (I retyped, it did say “due to too much fucking” )

I was so screwed up yesterday that I couldn’t eat my dinner last night. And it was a very nice wild mushroom and asparagus risotto. Tonight? Duck. And I prob won’t want that either.

Gym now. Still not functioning well. Too much in my head. I’ve run off a list of questions about the “bookends” of his A b/c I can’t remember what he said when I asked him on meltdown night. Am I odd wanting to know the details? Some on the list include:

The first time he had sex with her, which hotel?
Why did he ask her over for dinner?
What made him take her to his room was it just for sex? Or to “make love”?
Did he undress her?
What did they say to each other? And what did they say afterwards?
What did he think/feel when she left? Did they talk about seeing each other again? Did he want me to have an affair while he was engaged in his?

The last time, when did they arrange the hotels and why two weeks running? (her b’day was one date)
How many times did they have sex?
When did he give her his present and what did she say? What other gifts has he given her?

Is this wrong? Has anyone here asked the same sorts of things, and did you get the answers you were looking for? I get the feeling he’ll dish out the usual “can’t remember” crap.

I really think I want to hear him say he loved her. I do think I could find that more forgivable than that he had this affair simply b/c he wanted to and he thought I wouldn’t be hurt by it b/c I wouldn’t ever know. kwim?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:40 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UK - I have asked all the details: where, when, how many times, plus some you don't even want to know (how, what, where - you know what I mean). Not only have I asked. I continue to ask. I have told him that if he remembers anything else I want to know it immediately. Anything not told is a lie in my book. I don't know why we need to know it all but I suspect it is because we are trying to put back together a the pieces of our life. I have had AHA! moments when I remember a time when he was being particularly obnoxious and I realize it was very soon after one of his little fantasy escapades. Guess he didn't like being confronted with reality!

I think this is completely normal. I also believe it is an opportunity for the completely remorseful W to *show* how remorseful they are by owning their actions and giving up the details no matter how sordid or awful they may be. (((UK)))


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I fell asleep in the sauna last night and am now a raisin. AFter I re-hydrate and go to class, I will type the book list for you, Shirley.

UKgirl, I don't think you are going to find the answer you want from asking those questions. No matter what those answers are, they won't tell you whether he loved her or thought he did. Even if he tells you that he loved her, or though he did, that won't give you the knowledge you want.

I think you want to know how a man could do such incredibly dishonorable, hurtful things to you after you had been a good wife. How he could do things that made you disappear, act as though you simply didn't exist.

The thing is, you won't be able to understand that until he does. He's got to untangle his own knots. You cannot even see them, let alone undo them.

At this point you need to focus on you. You are the one in misery; you are the one who needs attention. I don't think I've ever heard you talk about IC. Do you do IC? Could you walk into a IC's office and say, "I am married to a cheater and I am fucking miserable. Help me figure out how I got here and what I should do to be happy again."

I think you really need to focus on you, UK. Focusing on him is not going to help you anymore.


Run, what can I say to you that you don't already know? You have to let go. He will never even start to look at himself while you are in his shit. You know that, don't you? And you will never be able to truly work on yourself while you are spending so much of your energy on him. You are trying to live his life for him to keep him from doing wrong or hurtful things again. And you're probably successful in that. The only problem is that no one is living your life. At least not in a way that it's enjoyable.

And that's a shame.

Take it from someone who had a stranglehold on other people's lives for a long, long time. It is the most joyful feeling in the world to let go. It feels like the weight of the world is off you. And it is. We simply were not made to live two lives.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - thanks for the book list. I feel like I am ready for that next step or stage. I am not sure if my IC can take me there so I may have to find another. In the meantime, I would love to do some reading that is about ME. I did read the four agreements which was helpful but a little glossy. I need something that will help me get inside myself and have a look around.

UKgirl - ignore what I said and listen to BT. First, she is much wiser. Secondly, you are further along and in a different stage. Most of my obsessing was a few months ago. I still think about this stuff a lot but probably shouldn't.

I have to go to a training class today (why don't we have a yawning icon? ) so I won't be around until later in they day. Hope everyone has a good day or, at least, a reasonable one.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 7:43 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is this wrong? Has anyone here asked the same sorts of things, and did you get the answers you were looking for?

UK, BT is right (again ) you won't get any comfort from the answers or for that matter, from even asking the questions.

I know when I was in this mode I asked H if I could write down the questions and he just answer the ones he could. He said no, he wanted me to ask them because he knew just how uncomfortable it made me to do it. I didn't really want to hear all that stuff, I just wanted to know he would tell me, that he could be honest, that he could be gentle if he had to say something that might hurt me. And guess what? He couldn't do any of it, so why bother? Why put myself through more misery of asking and hearing his answers. I think when I asked him why it went on so long if he knew it was so wrong and he knew he was hurting me, the kids, himself? And he answered "because the sex was just so fucking great". I knew it was time to quit. That cut me just as deeply as finding the letter.

I mean would you really feel better hearing "I chose that hotel because the beds are so wonderfully soft and sexy" or "Yes, I undressed her, it was like opening a new exciting present" Not saying that's what you'd hear, but depending on the mood....

Even his later retraction, telling me he said it so I would back off, in anger because he felt trapped and miserable and it wasn't true, it was just sex, didn't erase it. Nothing will. It reverberates every time we go too long between sex. Like now. That answer makes me doubt my very womanhood, my entire sexual past, my abilities, my body, and makes me wonder why I even try. And you know the reason I was looking for was becuase he was so f'd up that he couldn't figure out how to get out or how to come back to me. So having an idea of what you want to hear and getting the worst possible answer (even if it's true or a lie) will add another layer of pain I know I wish I didn't have.

I find it is easier to detach if I'm angry. The problem with that is these emotional children see that and only see "uh, oh, mommy's mad, better stay out of her way." And what we really want is them to fight through that to get to us. Show us it doesn't matter if we're angry, fat, sad, bitter, that they still want US and love us anyway. But they just "don't have the tools or experience" to do that.

I'm not making excuses here. I'm stating fact. They don't. The issue is what will be our response? What can we do to change OUR behavior in healthy ways for US. That's the challenge. Anger isn't healthy for us.

Neither is this deep abiding blackness that surrounds me right now. If he came home today and told me we were going on a 2 week second honeymoon to Hawaii, I'd be thinking "great, I'm fat and he wants to humiliate me by taking me to a beach."

So I'm going to go sit in the sauna and sweat out the poison and then take a long, luxurious nap while getting my hot stone massage.

Wake me when it's lunchtime.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 8:00 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really think I want to hear him say he loved her. I do think I could find that more forgivable than that he had this affair simply b/c he wanted to and he thought I wouldn’t be hurt by it b/c I wouldn’t ever know. kwim?

I think this is what i want to hear sometimes too, but only in part for that reason. UK or anyone else, would hearing they were in love be the absolute worst we could hear? Is that what we're looking for in all the gory details, evidence of "love" ? I have this wormy little thought that if he admits that he loved her it will be crossing some sort of line ( in my heart not my head ) as if then a part of me can disengage , permission maybe to wall off a piece of my heart, to then only have to give so much and no more and go on with him from there. Probably not explaining myself very well, perhaps after all it's only if he admits the worst i'll feel more justified in saying "fuck you". sigh.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

perhaps after all it's only if he admits the worst i'll feel more justified in saying "fuck you".

Yeah, I know about looking for the "one thing" that will finally put this all to rest one way or the other. Tell me you loved her and will always hold her in your heart and miss her... then I can walk out on you and not look back.

Tell me you hated yourself, hated her, hated being with the pros, that it made you feel disgusting and dirty and vile and you NEVER want to feel that way again, never want another woman in your life that it sucked "having to pay for it" and it made you feel like a loser and scumbag. Tell me you're finding out why you felt like that and what's changed inside you so you CAN'T again. Tell me that and maybe I'll know staying is the right decision.

"I love you" tells me nothing. Isn't that sad?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I love you" tells me nothing. Isn't that sad?


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A dear friend just sent me this... check it out.

A little long, but if you haven't seen it, its worth the watch!


http://psychoticambition.vodpod.com/video/871563-stumblevideo-randy-pausch-reprising-his-last-lecture?c=sort.latest


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tell me you hated yourself, hated her, hated being with the pros, that it made you feel disgusting and dirty and vile and you NEVER want to feel that way again, never want another woman in your life that it sucked "having to pay for it" and it made you feel like a loser and scumbag. Tell me you're finding out why you felt like that and what's changed inside you so you CAN'T again. Tell me that and maybe I'll know staying is the right decision.
"I love you" tells me nothing. Isn't that sad?[/
quote]
Weepy, I think that's a version of what I want to hear! (The BOLD is my emphasis). My H hasn't admitted a PA despite 3 yrs on online EA and plenty of opportunity - 2 yrs of us living in the same city as her and her being a seasonal employee of his- before I found out. The 1st year we lived in another city but he travelled to our current city several times a year on business.

He's in the other city until Saturday (left here last Thursday) and has called me daily and when he gets back to his hotel at night. Until last night! No call at the end of his business day before going to dinner with colleagues & customers as he usually does. No call until midnight my time, 1a his--- by which time I'm pissed off cuz I can't sleep and he knows it. At least he should by now... we are past a year since Dday and there's beem several out of town trips in that time. He knows sleep has been tough for me when he's at home! Yet he calls at midnight and wonders why I'm pissed. The company had the best sale in years yesterday and he was out celebrating! His cell phone was dead so I got his voice mail at the 1st ring and voice mail at his hotel room when I'd called about 15 minutes earlier, thinking he was in but had fallen asleep. If you are wondering... Twice he has called me and fallen asleep on the phone after spending 3-4 hrs at the restaurant with various colleagues and customers. The last few weeks at home he's worked 12 hr days M-F and wkend 7 hr days so we have had 'no life' but now he is out every night 'working' but it feels like partying to me. Yes, this has been normal for at least 20 yrs but that was before Dday. And "I'm sorry dear" just doesn't do much for me now.

The recent Take care of yourself thread makes me wince. I don't know what to do for myself. I am used to be the people-pleasing care giver to my H and family. His doormat always waiting for him and he knows it. Nothing has changed. His life continues as he's always known it and mine is devastated! Nothing is as I knew it anymore. Everything is tainted by his affair. Did I over-react last night? I don't know. It's the same dance, slightly different tune. Is this what marriage is after 30 yrs? Together more than half our lives - we grew up together, married at 21, have 2 sons & a daughter, all married now and we intended to grow old together, enjoying each other's company and our grandchildren (some day). But that dream is so spoiled by my current frame of mind, spoiled by his actions, and my blind trust and naivety.
Why am I still here?
He hasn't called yet this morning. I don't know what to say when he does. "I'm glad you had a great evening at my expense last night!" Sarcasm won't help the situation. He won't be able to talk cuz he's at work. Damn! I need a IRL spa day!
Vent! Vent! Vent! and even online I am not comfortable using the F word. What a wimp I am. And I am angry! I wasn't brought up in the South! But I was raised in a German Lutheran home to be a 'good' girl OR ELSE!
Help! I've fallen and can't get up!


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 9:08 AM, March 6th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

C'mon, he was smart enough to figure out how to fuck around on a brilliant chick like you for how long? Don't give me this crap that he can't figure "it" out on his own. Believe me, each and every one of our H's have blown their cover on the helpless dude who can't find his way or figure "it" out. We're all pretty smart and sharp women here and somehow they were all bright enough to fuck around and figure out the ropes of infidelity!

My God. I've never looked at it like that. You are so right. He is rather resourceful, isn't he? Why have I never looked at that? Actually, it kind of makes me mad. He CAN do "it".

Run, what can I say to you that you don't already know? You have to let go. He will never even start to look at himself while you are in his shit. You know that, don't you? And you will never be able to truly work on yourself while you are spending so much of your energy on him. You are trying to live his life for him to keep him from doing wrong or hurtful things again. And you're probably successful in that.

I know. I guess it's just easier to think I'm doing something to hold it together--even though I'm really not.

The only problem is that no one is living your life. At least not in a way that it's enjoyable.

Thank you for saying this, BT. This made an impact. It hurts to read, but I need to hear things like this.

Crudely put...Fuck "him."

And this, nas, was hilarious.

Thank you all so much for taking the time for me. I've got a lot to think about.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


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