Bob - I will be crossing my fingers for you this week but I am sure it will a plan out the way you deserve. It will be one of those weeks that will change lots of things for you and your daughters. For the better.
I have had a difficult few days as my son has been in hospital. He is a severe asthmatic and he was having a bad time. And where was his loving father? Up his own arse unfortunatly!! He did not come and see him as he was too busy. What a freak!
He wasn't too busy though, to notice my new curtain poles!! He said he thought they were too shiny. My daughter laughed about it afterwards and said he is always saying negative things about what you do. She then said she bet that I was glad I lived on my own so I could have the shinest curtain poles I wanted! We laughed at him for a while.
It does not take away from the fact that he is so busy looking at all of the new things I am doing and is so jealous of the control I have over my life. He wanted me to fall apart but each time he sees me my life is getting better each day! That stupid ow thought she was getting first prize, little does she realise that she got the booby prize!
Keep smiling everyone...soon this will all just be a distant memory.
What answer did you come up with for what you were getting out of the relationship?
I have been reading a lot lately some books that are out of my *normal* range. I'm beginning to see clearly the relation between my raising and my abusive relationships.
The answer I stumbled upon was motivation.
I am not a self-motivator. I have used others berating, criticism, and spite to drive me since as far back as I can remember. Being constantly told your not good enough forced me to try harder. Religion, FOO, and society rules have had a huge role in this, but the relationship with the N was the cherry on top.
I haven't decided what to do with this knowledge yet. I'm not sure how to self-motivate or decide even whether or not I'm still succeeding out of the "I'll show you" driver being loaded.
Interested in hearing your thoughts.
Ah, but she can't take you any way
You don't already know how to go ~ Eagles
BoB~ you will have the Tribe's crystal powers backing you this week so hang in there!
((((huge hugs, sweetie))))
itsa~ yeah, *booby prize* is right n glad your son is better. My DD used to have horrible wheezing attacks which sent her straight to the ER in her 20s.
[This message edited by jjct at 8:05 PM, February 19th (Tuesday)]
DD asked me if I liked daddy tonight. I said I don't like how he treats people - all of us. She said it is like he gets a new wife every few years and he will do the same to ow. She said he does not seem to care about anyone but himself and he does not allow her to have feelings. She said he tries to make her think what he thinks.
My question is how on earth do you explain npd (not that I would say to her anything about a disorder!) to a ten year old without slagging off her hugely-deficient father?? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
Her lawyer took her to a back room before proceedings started. I had submitted a 32+ point counterclaim with requests for guardium ad litum, placement, bills, communications, taxes and first right of refusal.
She had submitted another apparently false financial, omitting bank accounts, CCs, etc. Claims to be paying $2500+ in bills up from $1590+ 2 months ago. And she's doing it on an income of approx. $600.00-$800.00 including $400.00 from Social Services per month. She once again forgot to mention two other jobs. LOL.
They not once could refute my facts with facts, only "feelings" such as above. They accused me of using "feelings" to state my case. Funny, as I was rattling off dates, times, names, etc. She didn't have a single verifiable statement. I had 3 reams of papers, unfortunately not able to properly submit them cause as the judge stated there are rules and I should get a lawyer. LOL. (It would be nice !!!).
It was interesting. My observations were that they were in scrammble mode as they didn't have a solid footing.
It was ordered that the DDs see their mom two days a week and every other weekend. We settled the bills. That was funny. She was still claiming to be paying on things that were payed off. I stated that she was still using the two CCs that she has not brought to me since Oct-Nov She huffed that she'd pay them. As far as the card that was "lost or stolen" wherein I refrenced the charges where and when with witnesses or reciepts, including $176.00 in charges at the bar in a weeks time, she said her mom payed off the card and was now using it. And that she would pay it off. LOL.
I continue to pay off the Medical stuff.
Guardian Ad Litum has been ordered should mediation fail on Friday.
Taxes will be filed jointly and held in her attorneys trust.
I went to DD9s school and talked with her principal and counselor and DD9. I explained that she would have to go to her mom's tonight. She did not want to go. I held her and we hugged. She was excited to know that she had a lawyer (Guardian Ad Litum).
I talked with DD13 and told her the same about the ordered placement.
Last nite I had explained to them that thier concerns and statements would be submitted to the court. They said that they did not want to go to STBXPDWs as they feared reprisals. Court order changed that.
Her and her attorney kept saying that I was filling the kids up with ideas about STBXPDW and as above. Whatever.
Telling the truth and being honest are hard things to see shot to hell in a courtroom. It is interesting watching someone lie their head off, omit, history revise, blame, blame, blame, and not once own up to a damn thing. Interesting.
Interesting watching a lawyer do his job. They are a**holes. It's their job. I feel that her attorney was trying to get my goat. Nope. I still got my goat. LOL.
The BoB Report
ETA: No Sir, I don't like it.
[This message edited by bobelina at 5:32 PM, February 4th (Monday)]
I came to the conclusion that a lot of it came from the high standards I was set from my childhood. I did not want to be seen as a failure, I believed that you got married for life and after the freak's "magic" I did not believe I deserved happiness.
I did not get anything from the relationship, but I stopped believing I deserved better.
OMG ITSABATTLE I could have written this myself.
((Bob)) sweetie I am PROUD of you for standing up to the court today. As a legal secretary that has seen many sides of the legal system, you don't often see a person defend themselves and do so competently, intelligently, calmly and articulate. Bravo my friend!
Alas I see a follow up post about the results, I am sorry you have to now deal with your STBXW N component freak solo. Anyway you could record the session and then give a copy to her lawyer and file one with the court as a document in the future that if your STBXW DOES NOT and lets face it she will try to get away with "I don't remember" or "I can't afford to do that" right?
As for your DD's just remember it is "common" and "normal" for the otherside to say you are brainwashing the children. They all say that I swear it is to make themselves feel better because they can't fathom the very idea that this is something that THEY did.
I know your DDs aren't looking forward to seeing their "mom" tonight, but if anything all you can do is perhaps have them write out their feelings when they return, perhaps journal it so that their feelings are at least out in the open, whether you read the journal or not isn't as important as them just releasing their feelings.
Hallelujah for the Guardian Ad Litem, that will make such a huge relief to your DD's they will feel like they are truly being heard and that is very important right now. They need to feel like they aren't getting lost in the shuffle of the "grown ups" stuff.
Oh my I have certainly gone on haven't I
If I have helped, glad to do so. If I have rambled and nauseated you, oops, I got on a train of thought and ran with it. ((Bob))
N's are amazing chameleons who instinctively know HOW to work people, & the "system".
How can you expose the lies of the Narcissist in a court of law? He acts so convincing!
A clear distinction has to be made between the FACTUAL and the PSYCHOLOGICAL pillars of any cross-examination or deposition of a narcissist.
It is essential to be equipped with absolutely unequivocal, first rate, thoroughly authenticated and vouched for information. Narcissists are superhuman in their capacity to distort reality by offering highly "plausible" alternative scenarios, which fit most of the facts.
It is very easy to "break" a narcissist – even a well-trained and prepared one.
Here are a few of the things the narcissist finds devastating:
Any statement or fact, which seems to contradict his inflated perception of his grandiose self. Any criticism, disagreement, exposure of fake achievements, belittling of "talents and skills" which the narcissist fantasizes that he possesses, any hint that he is subordinated, subjugated, controlled, owned or dependent upon a third party.
Any description of the narcissist as average and common, indistinguishable from many others. Any hint that the narcissist is weak, needy, dependent, deficient, slow, not intelligent, naive, gullible, susceptible, not in the know, manipulated, a victim.
The narcissist is likely to react with rage to all these and, in an effort to re-establish his fantastic grandiosity, he is likely to expose facts and stratagems he had no conscious intention of exposing.
The narcissist reacts with narcissistic rage, hatred, aggression, or violence to an infringement of what he perceives to be his entitlement.
Narcissists believe that they are so unique and that their lives are so cosmically significant that others should defer to their needs and cater to their every whim without ado. The narcissist feels entitled to special treatment by unique individuals.
Any insinuation, hint, intimation, or direct declaration that the narcissist is not special at all, that he is average, common, not even sufficiently idiosyncratic to warrant a fleeting interest will inflame the narcissist.
Add to this a negation of the narcissist's sense of entitlement – and the combustion is inevitable. Tell the narcissist that he does not deserve the best treatment, that his needs are not everyone's priority, that he is boring, that his requirements can be catered to by an average practitioner (medical doctor, accountant, lawyer, psychiatrist), that he and his motives are transparent and can be easily gauged, that he will do what he is told, that his temper tantrums will not be tolerated, that no special concessions will be made to accommodate his inflated sense of self, that, like everyone else, he is subject to court procedures, etc. – and the narcissist will lose control.
The narcissist believes that he is the cleverest, far above the madding crowd. Contradict the narcissist, expose, humiliate, and berate him:
"You are not as intelligent as you think you are"
"Who is really behind all this? It takes sophistication which you don't seem to possess"
"So, you have no formal education"
"You are (mistake his age, make him much older) ... sorry, you are ... old"
"What did you do in your life? Did you study? Do you have a degree? Did you ever establish or run a business? Would you define yourself as a success?"
"Would your children share your view that you are a good father?"
"You were last seen with a Ms. ... who is (suppressed grin) a (domestic, stripper, receptionist...) (in demeaning disbelief)".
I know that many of these questions cannot be asked outright in a court of law. But you CAN hurl these sentences at him during the breaks, inadvertently during the examination or deposition phase, etc.
That slays me. LOL.
It's really interesting that the further I get from the "creature" as STBXPDW has been coined before (Thanks LL !!!) the more you see the pathology. I might be wrong, but I thought I was seeing her NPD mind at work today. She reacted to my statements. All of them. I believe I may have incurred upon her the proverbial Narcisstic injuries of lore. LOL.
I believe she raged a bit when she was disproven on things such as the CCs.
It was truly interesting. I probably looked like I was crazy cause I was smiling as they were trying to attack my character. Eh. I was polite, calm, cool, and collected, I believe. I let them rail me and didn't do a lot of contradiction. But when I did it seemed to raise the stuff, energy or something. Maybe tension is the right word. It seemed to allow for her to show that she had underestimated her role in all this as she seemed surprised that I new of somethings and she appeared to scramble to find an N-explanation. LOL. Then again maybe I'm reading to far into this or just plain off base. It was neither fun nor not. Just interesting.
At least that seemed to be the case. I kinda meditated and prayed waiting in the court room to hopefully remain un-attached to the proceedings. I think that it helped. It seems to me that they had to character assainate me as they couldn't, wouldn't or didn't seem to have any facts other than to take a few things out of context. They had to shoot down my credibility when I informed the court that the children feared their mother, don't trust her, that she lies to them, that she takes off when they are sleeping and then won't answer her cell when they call. I would expect there to be an incredible fight to keep the guardian ad litum at bay so as not to bring the children's testomonys to court. Unless of course they are so deluded to believe that such things don't exist. Who knows.
Yes, it is my kids safety and security, mental and emotional health at stake here, I believe, but it is still interesting to watch how it plays out. EVIL PEOPLE SUCK !!!!!!!!!! LOL.
DDs have a counseling session this week and DD9s school counselor said that she would talk to DD9 tomorrow.
I sometimes feel as if I'm being a trouble maker by doing what I do such as asking for help and asking for thoughts and opinions but I do want whats best for the kids even if that means limited engagement with STBXPDW and FOO. And that was my concern with the mediation discussion today. "You must work with her". Bullshit. She most work with me as I will not let her destroy the kids. Does that make sense?
As a few have stated "How can someone treat their kids like this?". I don't know but I'm witnessing it. LOL.
It's funny in a way. But not, as I know the kids involved. LOL.
It's still to bad that STBXPDW is so royally messed up. Poor kids.
A friend said today to be careful with my Buddhist/Taoist/Christian demeaner cause court is no where to be that way. Facts, facts, facts. Court is so adverserial, so full of power plays, dishonesty, etc. Very interesting to watch. It is not the place for truth. And that is probably what was meant by the above statement, that my regard for the truth can hurt me. I play fair and honestly and by the rules (Mostly. LOL.) and that can bite me in the arse. Silly confusing stuff. LOL.
In the end, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that she is thoroughly, completely and wholly disordered. No doubt whatsoever. And did I mention EVIL? LOL.
And to think I believed in her and that I believed her that I was the problem(s). Interesting what abuse does to you.
OK. I'm gonna go drink coffee and mediatate.
My friends, you are very dear to me and I can honestly say from the depths of my heart, mind, body and soul that SI and the NPD Thread saved me. You called her for what she is. God only knows, my stupid ass would probably be still pinning after her and still trying to figure what the hell I did that was so wrong. I am forever indebted to you.
Thank you again for saving me from the Black Hole of Despair. LOL.
I've written and erased about 5 more paragraphs, and I guess I have to just stop with this: I'm still trying to understand what kept me hanging on for so long. I've still got a lot of work to do to get my head wrapped around all of it.
Just my fourteen cents.
[This message edited by bobelina at 10:01 PM, February 4th (Monday)]
As STBXPDW appears to continue to lie, omit, falsify, manipulate, attempt to control, etc. maybe I should go for broke, whip out the big guns and let all Hell break loose.
My position is, as it has been since the kids and I left, that she is an unfit mother. She is a cool friend to DDs but she can not and will not function as a responsible adult with the DDs best interests in mind.
I feel that I keep pussyfooting around trying not to offend anybody including her and I keep getting stuck holding the bag.
As Michael Corleone says in the Godfather (My favorite movie):
"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."
I'm told in my state that full custody isn't possible, to which I ask, "Why?".
At what point does all the lying, etc. actually carry some weight?
Why must my children be exposed to this chaos just because she's their mother?
Cranky BoB LOL.
[This message edited by bobelina at 11:04 PM, February 4th (Monday)]
jj, its, and LL thanks for the responses. I know it is an extremely difficult question. I agree LL with the damaged, devalued, discouraged, and delayed. But I'm working through those and intend to never make the same mistake again. In order to do that, I have to face what I found *attractive* about the relationship. It was a challenge, and I tend to like challenging things. I see now that challenging is probably not something beneficial in a relationship! Course it was interesting 16 years ago when I was young and immortal. I was not thinking of the future.
Many positive thoughts for all!
And since we all need to laugh once in awhile here is one from http://groups.msn.com/PSYCHOPATH/jokes3.msnw
A Ns wife goes to the Wizard to ask him if he can remove a curse she has been living with for the last 10 years. The Wizard says, "Maybe, but you will have to tell me the exact words that were used to put the curse on you." The woman says without hesitation, "I now pronounce you man and wife."
[This message edited by downfall at 11:26 PM, February 4th (Monday)]