Do you think that it is actually posiible to stay with WH after these circumstances.
Yes, it is possible if you have a WS committed to helping you heal from your trauma AND healing themselves--which includes doing the hard work that remedies why he did it in the first place.
What he can't do is tell you he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He's got to be completely open to you about it. Have you read "Not 'Just Friends'"? In the book, the author (Shirley Glass) talks about walls and windows. During the affair, the OW and WS had a window into your marriage, but you were walled off from the affair. Now that the A is exposed, the WS needs to wall off the OW and give you a window into the affair. (I'm probably explaining this all wrong, but if you get the book, you can read about it and get a better understanding.) At any rate, you need to know that he will tell you whatever you want to know, as long as necessary. It's hard to do, but you should try to remain calm when asking in order to create a "safe" environment for them to reveal the answers.
Sweeping it under the carpet will only set things up for it to happen again.
Since you mentioned rehab, you can look at the affair like an addiction. It lasted so long because WS couldn't let go of the "high" he got from the ego strokes.
I mean could he really have ever loved me if he did these terrible things?
Hon, it's not that he didn't love you. It's that he didn't love himself. (And trust me, if you'd have asked this question a year ago, I'd be the LAST person to give you that answer.)
Are you in counseling at all?
[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 7:34 PM, January 29th (Tuesday)]
If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.
The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton
He is doing everything right except feels there is nothing more to say about the A's and it is all going to be great now. How can I talk not about the details but the why and why won't it happen again questions? He feels I will never forgive him if I still have doubts or questions.
Hon, he is doing everything right to make this move forward smoothly for himself, not for you. Of course he wants you to forgive him without doubts or questions because at some deep level that tells him that what he did is only worth an I'm sorry. As I posted earlier to yet another newbie even though I am still a newbie myself he needs to be willing to stand by you, bear your pain, hear and feel your tears. This is his pennance. The other GREAT advice that I got hear early on is to make NO decisions for the first year. I have been between serving papers and wanting to renew vows.
I thought I had a completely remorseful H to having dd#2 two months out. I am only 6 months into this and I realize that the year mark is a minimum as I watch those further along just starting to fully heal at 2 years.
Hugs - keep posting...this is a great tribe.
I just read a book called Steering Clear by Earl Wilson.
IMHO, this book really explains just HOW someone can do something very awful like have an affair.
Most of us have struggled with how our spouses could have had a lta IF they loved us. I really believe that most of our spouses did love us but also had serious issues. This book explains how that happens. I think that it can help us feel somewhat better about our spouses.
HUGS TO ALL
Eat, Pray, Love...some triggers but started it a few days ago and love it. It is all about what we talk about...building yourself, doing things for yourself, finding yourself, exploring yourself. Really great and not about affairs which I need now.
Okay, I will now stop hogging
Great IC/MC tonight. My ins. will only cover IC. So she is doing a little of both for me together so my ins. will pick it up. At least she understands and is working with me. Also, I am the only one that she takes so late in the day so that I do not have to miss work. At least she cares. But tonight was very good. No mention of the devil making me trigger. Thank goodness, I did not want to hear that and she never mentioned it. We talked about my sinking into pain and what to do with that. OTC, I guess I should have listened to you months ago. She said that when I'm hurting and I tell H that I don't know what I need...that is not good enough. She said that I MUST try and tell him specifically what I need to help me at that moment. Said it may even take some trial and error for me to figure out just what it is that I need. So that's our homework for the next couple of weeks. She did say something though that I'm not ready for. She said that for myself that I am going to have to find forgiveness for ow. NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT. Not today or tomorrow or anywhere in the near future and I told her so. Maybe, just maybe had snaggletooth bitch been a little bit remorseful and maybe even apologised to me, maybe (but probably not) I could find some smidgen of forgiveness. But that bitch was nothing but vile to me. NOT NOT NOT Not anywhere in the near future will that bitch get any forgiveness from me. When and only when I am ready to take that step for myself, never for her. The bitch. Can ya feel the love I have for her.
O.K. I had a good day, Thank the Lord. Enjoyed reading the poems, and I hope to find some time to actually read some posts tomorrow, but I do have a busy day facing me so probably not.
Zanny good to "see" you. You sound good. God Love You. You have been in my prayers.
Lost anytime my IC gives up b/c my ins. won't pay anymore, I'll just turn to you, you seem to be doing such a good job at it lately.
To all of you. Thanks for being here when I need you and also when everyone else needs you.
If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?
OTC, I guess I should have listened to you months ago.
She did say something though that I'm not ready for. She said that for myself that I am going to have to find forgiveness for ow.
Eat Pray Love???
shirley, that book is the only reason I can leave my house now. I credit that book with all the progress I've made in the last three or four months (however long ago I read it). That book spoke to me--LOUD AND CLEAR--that we are responsible for our own happiness. We need to listen to what we are really saying inside. We need to be true to ourselves.
While I cannot take a year off of my life, I do intend to find peace in my heart. For me.
I loved that book--that journey. If I ever have the chance to meet Elizabeth, I intend to tell her that she saved my life.
She said that for myself that I am going to have to find forgiveness for ow.
See, now I just don't agree with this. I don't want to carry anger and bitterness for OW around with me for the rest of my life, but my goal, with regard to her, is not forgiveness. It's indifference. And I truly believe if I feel nothing for her--forgiveness is not necessary. I intend to feel nothing for her. Because she is, after all...(altogether now) NOTHING!
Sorry but my ins. will cover only one IC. But I'll keep you in mind if this one doesn't work out.
Night John Boy
Welcome, Hope....don't worry about jumping. This is a "community" pool....
As for your question....
Frankly, as long as you HAVE doubts and questions and feel shut out of any relief for them....it WILL BE hard to forgive.
I hope you can relay this very real fact to him.
LTA's are NOT... .."Ooops, I f'ed up....and got caught and now say I am sorry.....so all is better now....right, BS??"
No, no.....not at all.
Long Term Affair = Long Term Recovery
Tell him what you need, Hope....what you need to see and hear...even if your list of "needs" changes from week to week...and it probably will.
Jump in here anytime.
Wish I could take away all the hurts tonight and keep everyone safe.
Hey...what is the deal here?
Please tell me someone saw House last night and remembers his whole "lie" speech!
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda
I have done the journey free and clear with a pure heart.
Yes you have.
Hey BT! I thought you didnt do hugs??!!
Shirley, nice one!
Good analogy too. Hog away...I hate being the only hogster here. I was recently accused of developing a codependent relationship with this forum.
He feels I will never forgive him if I still have doubts or questions
FSA, I am glad that your session went well. Its tough when you dont have much of a choice. The problem here in London, is that there are too many choices!
As for forgiving OW, .
I dont think so! Jeez, I am working on trying to forgive myself; my folks;my great grandmother who bequeathed small boobs and large hips to me; my Yr 5 Math teacher who whacked me in my knuckles every time I got my times table or math problem wrong, and put in me a deep abiding fear/hatred of all things maths; Tesco for not stocking alcohol- free vanilla essence; lets not forget my H who...well lets not get into that...but you get my drift. The OW are SO not on my horizon for forgiveness.
I wish I could do all Zen-like like ROBT, but...
Btw, Robt, I wanted to tell you how much I love reading your posts. Something always touches me or makes me think (ouch). Thank you.
Sorry, dont even know if House is on here.
[This message edited by Lost Heart at 5:47 AM, January 30th (Wednesday)]
[This message edited by Lost Heart at 8:23 AM, January 30th (Wednesday)]
Now it is some tit for tat BS that is going on. I am done with the game. I cannot take it. I no longer will do anything back and forth. Today she took the cable modem power cable and I am posting this from work. All I want is get back to full transparency and to move past my slip up.
I am just having such a hard time coping. I give you two plus year people credit. The level of what has happened to us astounds me. Not to say you, my sisters cannot relate. I feel that you are the only ones that understand at all.
I have no time in my marriage to look back on and say it was good and pure.
My main issue is this. I cry and she does not care. Keeps saying comon get over it. My marriage being a lie? 6 years cooked. Questioning everything. I wish OM was not a so called friend. That bastard was at my house a lot. I trusted him. I trigger everywhere.
I lash out when she shows no remorse. bad coping I know. Time to up the meds and pray more.
Totally wrong of me and I regret it so much I cannot put into words how I feel about messing up our attempt at R.
I am amazed I even tried R after D-day. She destroyed me at a level I cannot even wrap my head around at all yet.
Feel free to hit me with dozens of 2x4's. I deserve them. I will just cower in my corner alone and take it.
[This message edited by heftysmurf at 6:36 AM, January 30th (Wednesday)]
Steering Clear by Earl Wilson
Thanks mns, I'll have a look at that.
And now to the topic that got be back in here. I noticed we've got another member, heftysmurf, on the LTA thread, and a man at that, with a story very close to my own.
A starting within months of the wedding (in my case before the wedding, in hefty's case after). Multiple year LTA. In hefty's case amplified by the OM being his best friend (with friends like that, who needs enemies..). Now he's walked down a few steps on the path I actually took.
I think many of you remember my back story, but if not, here's a short recap:
I had short EA which culminated in a 2 night PA with close friend. Confessed 4 days later, fall 06, and found out over the next month, mainly through snooping, that xW had begun an EA fall 03, with PA starting less than 2 months before our wedding in 2004, continuing until d-day in fall 06.
Post d-day turned into a horrid mess. xW completely unable to tell me anything truthfully, only admitting (and sometimes not even that) to what she thought I had proof of made me talk to my OW - tit for tat game "She's lying, I can talk to the OW" - insane thinking I know, but there is no logic.
Although my PA had only been the one trip, we tried (and with hindsight completely failed) to be just friends. I should have known much better, I'd read the books, I'd found SI, but it didn't sink in. I was sinking as xW abandoned ship, I reached out to OW.
So, why am I bringing this back up again (after my "magnificent" thread about 9 months ago..)?
Well, hefty, it because I know exactly where you are. You're fumbling around, trying to grab hold to anything that will give you any kind of foothold. I've been there, I think we all have. I clearly was broken enough to have an A in the first place, so going back to the EA was a somewhat natural step for me. (Oh yes, I've done some introspective searching in the last 8-9 months, and it wasn't pretty).
Hefty, I know that the fleeting comfort you could get from seeing someone else, not to mention the hurt a revenge would inflict on your WS, but let me tell you this - it is only destructive.
Once you cross that line you can't go back. I miss my friend, the OW, still to this day as a friend, but I can't go back there. Bringing yet another person into your marriage will not make things clearer, only worse.
H, I hope you're still here, I too ran away when my continued EA was pointed out just as that, and I felt so small I wanted to hide.
Please stay with us. Even if your W will not let you delete the email accounts, look at your own actions, and take the lonesome road that is the high road.
Strive to be better, for you (and your kids? Can't remember if you have any?) not for someone else.
Hang in there.
And to all of you other great people, I hope you have a very good day today.
"The term “mistake” infers a level of ignorance, innocence and naivety. And a lack of intent and planning." - Craig Harper
You posted as I wrote my long post - glad to see you here!
Yes, the LTA is a monster. I won't hold back (my best friends didn't for me around d-day, and I'm stll grateful).
The dating profile was stupid, and you know that.
It seems has her reaction is a slight attempt to deflect from her A, in her position anything that will alleviate guilt is welcome.
Work on yourself, and hang in there. We can't work on them, only they can make that choice. If she decides to focus on the dating profile then you have your answer there. If she understands it was an extremely stupid reaction to her massive A, then you both might be able to move forward together.
A suggestion if you'll accept it.
Use written form. The best communication between xW and I before the D was final was letters. It allows time for the thoughts to sink in properly. Write her a letter, where you tell her about your feelings, about her A, about why you did the dating site, about your fears, etc.
It was wrong, it was dishonorable, it was stupid, it lost you the high ground. But it is done. Don't do what your wife seems to be doing and run away from it. Instead, apologize, be sympathetic to the hurt it caused her, and let it help you identify and correct your weaknesses.
The one thing to not let it do is be used to allow your wife to flee from the fact of her years of dishonor. Your wife played you false almost from day one. Give her some time to let go the defenses and come around to how really serious and damaging what she did is. Do marriage counseling, give her books, talk with her. Help her understand as much as you can. But if she doesn't get there, if she continues to tell you to get over it, or that you should only look to the future, then you should get out. It's rare that I say that, but it's true.
A person who has an affair with their husband's best friend almost from the beginning of their marriage has a BIG FUCKING GIANT ISSUE OR ISSUES that need to be addressed. What she did is beyond terrible. If she is not willing to find out why she did it and how to fix her broken parts and to offer you the compassion you need to heal, she's not fit to be anyone's wife.
I still love her. In some ways maybe I am crazy for saying it.
My weakness is this. She is not showing any remorse. How can you hurt someone you "love" and see the damge the wound is causing and seem not to care and just move on? I my god loved this woman. So many visions and times destroyed. I am so hurt and just really need to be held and understood.
One summer I went on about a dozen trips for work. I called her multiple times a day and was home every weekend. Bought her something from every city I went to. During the week he was their. I have thousands of times to think about like this.
I my god loved her so much. She was my world. I called her 5 times a day, twirled my ring at work, and looked forward to having dinner together every single day. Damn damn damn. What did I do to deserve so much pain? Honey I loved you so much. Did you ever really love me to do this to me?
I thought about retirement, upgrading our house, and everything. One of my favorite sayings was I would marry you all over again. Feel damn stupid.
I never ever ever would consider cheating on her or anything stupid before this.
I will not betray my vows. 2x4 to head here. I WILL NEVER DO ANYTHING LIKE THIS AGAIN. In fact I have pretty much no female friends and was always happiest being at home.
I am sorry sorry sorry.
Now what about her? She ruined me and destroyed me. She touched my soul so deep down. I am doubting my entire life with her. I am begging for some help and a shoulder to cry on. I barely make it through most days and need her help.
Honey please help me. I am begging. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE. Hole me and cry with me. I need you now more than ever.
I am alone in the darkness.
[This message edited by heftysmurf at 8:29 AM, January 30th (Wednesday)]