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User Topic: Long Term Affairs V I I I
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lost, this is where YOUR changes will come into effect.

ROBT, thats what my IC told me as well.
I seem go through this same issue every few months, and I noticed that its usually when he is regressing, or displaying some of his negative qualities.

Thank you for bearing with this with me...again.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Lost, I would suggest a NC letter the old fashioned way Ė in the post/mail. Itís all too easy to hit the reply buttons for email and text and doesnít strike home in the same way. A snail mail paper document will show her it is a considered matter. She needs to be told that all forms of communication will be considered harassment and that if it continues, your H will be forced to issue a RO. Send it by registered or special delivery or whatever so that someone in the house has to sign for receipt. Then you know sheís got it.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 10:25 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I take the day off yesterday and come back to three pages to catch up on.

BTW loooooved the Jerry Springer comment about ow. Who made that?? you get an A+

NC letter-So Lost, I think you did what you needed to do. You see I am one that lets the ow crawl under my skin. I know I'm wrong and shouldn't, but I can't help it. Something we discussed in MC (our 1st session) last night. And MC pointed out that the bitch is NOTHING. Give her absolutely no credit for anything. I've often longed for the day that I could meet snaggletooth and cut loose on her. MC says nope. Says if that were ever to come to pass that for me to win that one without a doubt, would be to simply tell her that she can't tell me anything of importance and to assure her that she has no affect on me b/c she is nothing, good-bye.
I dunno. I can think of alot more I'd like to say. But I know MC is probably right.

I'm still doing my same old vicious cycle of why won't hell tell me everything to save this M and to ease my worries. I hate it. IC just keeps insisting that it is just the devil jabbing at me. Putting doubts into my mind. I may not totally disagree with that, but to me that is almost like saying that I don't have just grounds to let the LTA dig at me. Kind of like you could get over it if you would not let the devil play his games with you. I'm having a hard time with this one. What do you think??

Started to hit on another subject, but just decided to save it for another time. I'm tired. I hate LTA, it just won't quit.

But..... I'm having a decent day. Hope you are too.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Been reading and hurting and cheering along with you as usual. Ya'll move at lightning speed. Today i need..i don't know what i need, am hoping someone here will.
2yrs ago when we started to deal with our past , almost from the first day my H has been like a different person. I have likened it to the way a person who has been blind their whole life and suddenly could see. He's seems fascinated by all the feelings he has. He touches my skin like he never knew what warm flesh felt like. It is so so strange.
My H and his IC have been discussing his fear of intimacy together with his deep fear that i will leave him. He told her , as he's told me, that his love for me now is very real and how he would feel if i left. She asked him if he would have felt that way 5, 10, or 25yrs ago, and he said he didn't think so. He's admitted to me that he was wanting to leave when the last OW dumped him ( and i doubt if i have the whole truth about that )
My thoughts are, given all of this, where did all these feelings he has for me now come from ? Did he just open his eyes 2yrs ago and i was the first person he saw, some sort of imprinting like a bloody duck ? Is he now simply fascinated with the fact that he can feel ? I can't seem to wrap my brain around all that. It means that for nearly 30 years i was loving him , believing he felt the same and now to know i could have been thrown aside at any time for any old scab that came along and told him how wonderful he was. Thanks for listening.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 10:40 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA
I forget. Why wont he give you the info you want? From what you say, he is doing everything else well, so why resistance on this aspect...esp knowing how impt it is to you.
Is it a form of control? A PA tactic? Or he thinks he is protecting you? What does he say?

You know I had to know everything I had to know..and even though I wish I didnt know some stuff, overall I am glad I do. Knowing mine enemy helps me.
Knowing the details help me put both the A's in perspective and realise that they were not what I thought they were. And thats a good thing.

So not much help from here with this issue FSA.Sorry.

***
Has anyone been on the site,
http://www.my-counseling-site.com/ ???

I have been reading up on my codependence stuff (thanks for the homework ROBT ).


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Why wont he give you the info you want?
He swears that there is just nothing else to tell. It's part of my vicious cycle. I've been lied to so much that I can't feel like there is nothing else. Make any sense? Also I can't believe that I was able to dig 10 years worth of crap up all by myself. You see he has never been able to open up to me and say "O.K. FSA here it is, this is what all happened and what the LTA consisted of". Everything that I know is b/c I would stay after him on some topic, sometimes for months, remember it took him 11 months just to finally admit it was LTA, and then he would finally give in and tell me about whatever the issue was. B/c of his lies though, even if there is nothing else out there, I don't know that I'll ever feel any assurance of that.

I don't know how to quit cycling on this one. That is what alwasy seems to bring me back into the pit. It's not so much what he did during the LTA, it's that I feel like he can't come clean with me NOW. Then and now are supposed to be worlds apart.

FSA
The rambler


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA. Thereís so much thatís gone on in their LTAís and so much thatís been buried and denied, that they donít KNOW the truth. I think these things dawn on them. Kind of ďoh yeh, forgot about that one, oh wellĒ. To them itís of no consequence. It wasnít at the time and it certainly isnít now!! And they just donít see how important it is to us and how much it hurts when we get the truth trickle, as I believe itís called. I know what I know mostly due to MY detective work. I have an idea that Iím going to ask FWH to write about how it started, how it progressed, how he felt, about it continuance, when it started to change. About things he remembers specifically, about how he felt when he slept in OWHís place in the marital bed, about near misses, about the number of times he went back to her the same day, about her texts and phone calls. To think about their fucking five year relationship that he seems to think is now irrelevant. And Iím still angry about the little slip about staying at hers and travelling from that station to London. And so that means the airport and any sodding appointment he had that way b/c it would save him travel timeÖÖ. Fuck, fuck, fuck. That one Iím going to get answers to tonight. If Iím here when he gets home, the shit-for-brains.

I said to him that I no longer believe or disbelieve what he says. What he says is what he says. If he says it is raining outside, Iím looking out of the window to check.

Mindisgone. Sounds like a really bad and sad case of the fog. Heís lived his life in a fog and now someoneís lifting the veil, so he is seeing the real you for the first time. Heís taken off the earmuffs, so he is hearing you for the first time.

Now you need to find out the damage done to you. Find out who you are. Youíll get there, donít worry, weíre all here to support you. (((((mindisgone)))))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is it that you want to know FSA?
Is there a specific question or issue that eating away at you, or is it the fear that theres something that you missed, and that when you let your guard down fully, it will come back to bite you?

Mig, my all time favourite fairy tale is The Snow Queen by Hans Christian Anderson. Do you know it?

Whilst Kay is under The Snow Queen's spell, whilst the splinters is still in eye and heart, he can only see and feel bad, and even though he loved Gerda, the splinters made him see her as ugly.
His heart was turned to ice.
Only after Gerda managed to melt the ice in his eye and then his heart, did he begin to feel again, did he begin to feel his love for her again, and see the beauty all around.

Your H loved you before the A. Then the splinters entered his eye and heart, and turned them to ice. Looks like the ice has melted.

Thats the only analogy I could think of MIg.

You know that has been my fav story since I was a little girl. My book was so worn out, the pages were stuck together with sticky tape.
And isnt it amazing the parallel that can be drawn to the LTA?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ukgirl, its horrible when the details come out in dribs and drabs, when you asked the right question, when you catch them in a lie.
But it does take a fairly long time for you to get the complete picture and fill in the missing pieces, so hang in there.

If anyone is interested in The Snow Queen, I just found a lovely rendition on this link.
Yep LH is now doing fairytales!

http://live-artist.com/fairytales/snwq1.html


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What is it that you want to know FSA?
I don't think I want to "know" anything. I just want to finally feel some "honesty" coming from him. Not just his caving in on something. Something like "here FSA, I want to tell you this so that you will be able to feel like I can finally open up my true self to you, even if it means my (my meaning H) having to suffer b/c of it. I feel like this could be a big step toward trusting again. But I'm beginning to think, by his and IC's reaction that I am asking too much. I just wish I knew the key to stop cycling in this. H and IC both tell me it is a matter of praying for strength against the devil making me doubt H. And then that just makes me feel like I am not justified in doubting. Round and round we go. I have to have faith in my H to stay with him, I feel like he should show some faith in me by being able to be honest with me about things that he doesn't necessarily have to. Am I making any sense at all??

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 11:56 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My thoughts are, given all of this, where did all these feelings he has for me now come from ?
Hereís my take on this MIG. Those feelings have always been there but the fear, no actually, terror of feeling them and letting them surface was too much for your H to even fathom. In addition to my H, I was also terrified of intimacy and allowing myself to be vulnerable with another person. I desperately wanted love and to be loved, but couldnít cross the line into true intimacy for fear of rejection, hurt, betrayal (HA!). It was my protection mechanism from my motherís emotional abandonment, blah, blah, blah. Now keep in mind, I had NO idea I was doing this and I considered myself a pretty evolved person with regards to reading all the latest pop psychology and spirituality, having IC for years, etc. When Dday happen all that desire for true intimacy and love rushed to the surface. It was almost a force I couldn't control. I knew it was my time in life to make a choice to jump off the cliff and trust that a net would appear or slide and bump down the side of the mountain for the rest of my life. Ironically, the worst pain in my life from my Hís A opened my heart (and not my mind for the first time) to be able to receive love and true intimacy for the very first time in my life. As I have said in here before, I left my M before my H did. I had an A with my work and network of friends that he had no part of and wasnít allowed into. It was MY secret and protected world. So from that standpoint I can sometimes identify with the cloistered world of the adulterer. Coming out of that was like I was seeing, hearing and feeling my H for the very first time. I finally saw HIM, the person, versus an icon of something I wanted him to be and he never was. Even though the love was always there, it was guarded and protected and never really expressed appropriately because I couldnít FEEL it. And my H, because of his FOO issues couldnít FEEL either. Oh, we were a great couple! Anyhow, feeling things for the first time was an incredible sensation. It almost drove me over the edge because I was also feeling the pain in Technicolor too. In fact, thatís what itís like. Youíve been living in black and white and all of a sudden everything bursts into Technicolor! Kind of like when Dorothy walks out the front door of her home and steps into the technicolor world of OZ. Iím not sure if youíre questioning whether to trust it or not, but I can say from feeling it first hand myself that it is real. Hope this helps you understand a little MIG.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh yes, FSA, you are making sense to me anyhow. I'd like him to volunteer information once in a while instead of just saying "what is it? I know you want to ask me something, so ask". I'm not wanting him to be a mind-reader, but the other night when he let that snippet slip out, why couldn't he just apologise and expand a little? He just had this look on his face that meant his gob opened before his brain (wherever that is) was engaged.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 12:06 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA, you are making total sense.
So now maybe you can understand that I believe absolutely nothing that my H tells me, including how much he loves me. I don't know that I'll ever be able to believe anything he says. Especially when he was able to watch me suffer so severely and beat myself in the head and could continue to lie to me

Does IC and H truly believe that after everything that he put you through, that after a year, you are just supposed to believe that thats it..end of story??

Its going to take a heck of a long time before you get to that point.

But you know that.
You want H to come to you with something like, "FSA,I was listening to this song, and it reminded of something I did that you might want to know." or "FSA, I was looking at you last night, and I remembered when I did X to you, during the A, and I want to tell you now how sorry I am."

Is this what you are looking for?



Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 12:44 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep, that's it!!!!!
But I can't seem to get that across to my H. He, like you asked a little earlier, wants me to tell him specifically what I want, I can't do that b/c I wasn't there to know what that specific is.

And thanks for reminding me of what I said a while back. Ya know, things go round and round in my head so much that I get lost sometimes. But that quote is it exactly too. I can't find how to trust his words after he was able to lie before with the way it was making me suffer.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
mindisgone
♀ Member
Member # 17772
Default  Posted: 1:11 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LH, If it was a spell he was under then i guess the Evil Queen would have been his mother.
OTC, He has described it much like you have, eerily so, and the pain as well. I am happy he feels but i don't know how to accept that for all those years i could have been basically exchanged for someone who stoked his ego and i never had a clue.
I can't understand now how i could have lived in such denial.


too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart..

Posts: 678 | Registered: Jan 2008
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA
I can't find how to trust his words after he was able to lie before with the way it was making me suffer.

Thats me too FSA.
But like OTC and the others keep saying, this will come in time, when HE starts feeling safe. He has to learn how to open up and communicate, not just when he HAS to; he has to learn how to make himself vulnerable to you.
I honestly cant think of any other way.

So it comes back to what our sisters here say, "With what you know, are you able to move forward?"
What would be the unknown dealbreaker for you?
For me, it would be if there were any OC (not the fact that they exist, but that he knew, lied and ignored them for so long..what else would he be capable of then??) or if there was another OW.
I have asked these questions many many times, so he has has plenty of opportunity to come clean.

So with what I know, I am able to move forward. Recently H and I spoke about this same issue, and I asked him why didnt he ever just volunteer something. And he said, that he just doesnt think if them/those times, and if something does remind him, he shuts it up v fast, because it reminds him of how he messed up.

I guess our Hs will have to do alot of work on themselves, and then find their safe place with us,before they are able to talk to us like this.

I have let it go, cos frankly there are so many other more impt issues in our life, that need my attention..at the top of that being ME.

Can I ask you something FSA?
What do you think will happen, if you do let this go, with the hope that oneday you and H will have that relationship, where he can open himself up voluntarily?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can I ask you something FSA?
What do you think will happen, if you do let this go
I think we could have a beautiful relationship. My problem is that I can only let it go for short spurts and then it comes back and knocks me back down. I don't want it to, but it does. I don't know how to get past that. And when it hits me it puts me back down in the bottom of that pitt. H says that he is going to find a way to fill that pitt with dirt so that in the future it will be impossible for me to fall back in there again. Wish he would hurry up.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Mindisgone)))) I can so understand that. Wh now professes his love and I have said, look, I;ve been here the whole itme. I'm not any different. So what the hell is so different with you that you can suddenly be committed adn keep your bows??

Hmmm, LH, so I really am living the fairy tale then? Sheesh, I thought my dream had tied! Turns out I was just living a different fairy tale! lol

It's so true. I tell wh all the time that I feel like I have to ask such specific questions just to get an answer. I don't know the questions to ask! I also think he remembers so little off hand. This is true in any aspect of life with him, alwasy has been. I also think he doesn't let himself think about it too much. That gets me. Buddy, i don't get a choice, I have to think about it day and night!

I didn't mean to sound snippy in my previous post. I was just so frustrated. Kind of that damned if you do, damned if you don't feeling. Because her email said "I wish I could just forget about it the way you seem to be", part of me really wanted to not respond. And he was all for that (avoidance and denial for him are best friends). But I needed NC clearly established. I needed those word said. And the part oabout her being drunk, I also very much needed it to soudn like it came form him. For both her adn for him. I needed them to both know it was from him. I didn't want it ever to come bite me that I had written that and he felt he had to send it. SO I was okay with that casual part. I'm not worried about her emailing back. She doesn't matter anymore and he's not responding anymore adn he seems perfectly fine with that,

I was glad I left the I'm sorry part out though. MC agreeed immediately before I even said why. She said that conversation was only for me and only I deserved those words. I was late to my session because of an accident so it had to be somewhat short. I told her all about htis week. Wh has been really connecting with his counselor and the hope is that his IC can really get him to understand the immensity of it all. I have to see her again Monday. He goes sometime next week to see his IC again. I am really anxious for all four of us to get together but IC wants us to wait until Wh is ready. His IC asked him and wh said he wanted a few more IC sessions first. I thin he really feels like they are getting some stuff out and talked about. So that is good.



Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:53 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H says that he is going to find a way to fill that pitt with dirt so that in the future it will be impossible for me to fall back in there again.

(and diamond/gold bracelets! )

Wow, FSA! Did he really say that?
That has to be one of the sweetest lines I have heard.
(happy)

FSA, do you think the dday antiversary looming up, might have something to do with it?
Or is it one of those holes we all fall into every now and then,to climb out again?
Or could it be that your bday went off very well, and H did really good by you, so that makes you feel a little vulnerable?
Or am I shooting in the dark here?

I am so tired. H is watching a movie with the DDs.If he only knew how much that DVD is triggeiing me. But he will just say that since I have been in a crappy mood today, that I am just looking for an excuse to start a fight.

Like yesterdays wasnt bad enough.
My physio asked me today about the bruise on my shoulder, and I told him,I bumped into the door.

Do you know the song by Randy Crawford, "Oneday I'll fly away".
Sometimes, do you ever wish that?


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, January 18th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA, do you think the dday antiversary looming up, might have something to do with it?
Or is it one of those holes we all fall into every now and then,to climb out again?
Or could it be that your bday went off very well, and H did really good by you, so that makes you feel a little vulnerable?
Or am I shooting in the dark here?
None of the above. It's just something that I haven't been able to get past. I'm not down in the pitt right now, just thought I would throw it out there for discussion b/c it does bog me down. When I do have my good days and weeks, this is the one thing that I know will bring me back down sooner or later.
Wow, FSA! Did he really say that?
That has to be one of the sweetest lines I have heard.
Yea, he can come up with some pretty good ones. I'm just never sure which ones are from the heart and which ones come from his survival instincts. Sorry, don't mean to be negative. I've just been lied to too many times.
But I do have a smile on my face today. Don't mean to be a downer.
My real questions was how any of you felt about IC insisting that my struggle is between me and the devil. I think she is trying to tell me that H is doing everything right, so now I should move forward, but I let the devil keep digging at me and keep me bogged down. I don't really see it that way. I see it that his LTA bogges me down.

Gotta go


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
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