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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs V I I I
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,
I’m posting on Zanny’s behalf again to let all of you know how she’s doing. She’s asked me to do this because writing it all out and posting it is too much for her right now and maybe for a while. She also needs to distance herself a bit from all of our situations and ruminations to be with her thoughts and self to make decisions and define her future. Even reading here is tough for her right now. I know you all understand. Run and I have been in constant touch with her and given the situation she is doing extremely well. She is finding this time around has aroused an emerging strength of self within her. She needs some time and space to figure out what it means and where it’s guiding her. Zanny is a person who can’t wallow in her pain for long. She is amazingly resilient. While this has been an incredible blow she’s learned so much since Dday #1 and that knowledge has truly empowered her to move through this without crumbling into a million pieces. Between Run and I we have spent many hours in conversation with her and she is doing really well. I am so proud of and inspired by her. She’s still herself and Zanny is still intact although now she has a couple of stripes on her Green Beret. Continue to send her light, love and prayer. She is so thankful and moved by all the care and concern by all of you. She FEELS the concern and care from each and every one of you. So keep it up! It is making a difference.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth.

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same.

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

- Robert Frost

UKgirl - It was my H who finally came to terms with the fact (after much IC and discussion between us) that he was trying to hurt me. Hasn't drilled down deep enough to determine the complete answer to why. However, it looks to be mostly about getting back at his mother.

My H is not nearly as literary as yours (whose prose is quite good even though you may no want to know that). Anyway, he said he always thought about the above Robert Frost poem and always wondered to himself - what if I had taken a different path. I think clear, decisive decision-making is nearly impossible for these individuals. How do you make a decision when you can't even decide who you are?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Zanny))))

If you are there I am sending you buckets of white light.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 6:33 PM, January 16th (Wednesday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 7:25 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hate to ask this right now. Who right now is near the breaking point and who is in full R and feeling better?


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
IMstrong
♀ Member
Member # 10637
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I talked to him- UPDATE

Well, not 100% satisfied, but it was a positive talk.
MC had warned me that guys aren't like us and because it was so long ago, don't expect immediate admission. I had 3 pieces of info to check on. He was truthful on one. The other he was less sure on, and the third (contact), denied contacting her, so I tipped my hand, and let him read the proof that I had. Even then, he said he still couldn't remember. He explained that most of what he told her was lies, so he forgets. He did say that he wanted to run away those first weeks after d-day when I was in so much pain, and when she contacted him, he answered, and admitted that he may have even been hedging his bets in case I left.
But he did say some beautiful things, apologized for my pain and suffering, said he wishes he could remember so that I can find peace, but he doesn't want to make stuff up. He said he didn't want to know how I got my info, but he wanted me to keep going, keep checking.
He even said that maybe we should go back to MC, if that will help me. I agreed, of course.
Most important, I expressed a wish that OW somehow knew that it was all lies that he told her, and he said he will write me a love letter telling me exactly that, and if I want to forward it to her, I can. He doesn't want to send one directly to her because it has been 21 months of NC.So thanks for all your help and advice.

[This message edited by IMstrong at 9:16 PM, January 16th (Wednesday)]


Me BS
He FWS
LTA
DDay 2/20/2006
Reconciled

Posts: 76 | Registered: May 2006
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 9:18 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Zanny,

Much love to you. Wishing you strength of will and clarity of thought. And wishing the same for your husband.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 10:54 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IM, I think that turned out just fine. I have a hard time with "I don't remember", but after all this time--and he was probably quite heavily in fog--it may just be possible that he doesn't remember. (But don't tell my H I said that. )

I would NOT forward a love letter to her though. Remember that she is a nothing. It doesn't matter whether or not she knows what he told her were lies. It just doesn't matter what these women think. The truth is that they could have been anybody--as long as they provided their "service" and continued to "pet" them with words. They could have been totally faceless--or all wore the same face. It wouldn't make a bit of difference. They're all the same. They're all nothings.

And it just doesn't matter what they know or do not know about how our marriages are now.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 3:10 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hurtshirley, I read that Frost poem years ago. Wow, makes me read it in a VERY different light now. He went back to see where that other path would have left. I suppose it’s the analogy we all recognise here.

(((((Zanny))))), wishing you strength to get you through the day, the week, the month.

Another rainy day in the UK. But another day nearer to spring. Check in later.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 5:38 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((zanny))) if you are reading, I know you have that strength OTC speaks of in her post. Somewhere in all of us is a nugget of strength and peace.... we all just have to find it and hold it tight.

[This message edited by weepy at 5:38 AM, January 17th (Thursday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hiding behind themselves and what they were doing. A double life over which they had no control? Passengers? Self absorbed, selfish, self pitying crap.

IC and I were talking about this last night. I used to describe my H as a guy with a hard candy shell and underneath was all the gooey soft center. Now that hard shell has turned into a 4'thick concrete wall and I'm not sure the soft center is even still there. She said he has built up so many walls from disappointment or fear in life... from the kids' disability, to his unsuccessful business, from his mother and her "you'll never be anything but trouble" attitude that it may actually have turned his insides to stone.

She said my layer of protection was paper thin. That I feel, think, act, from the heart. That there's nothing wrong with that. But it makes me so vulnerable to the slightest hurt. And he really is oblivious, in denial about reality. Everything's fine with him because he can't access how he truly feels. That he has to be hit over the head repeatedly to get anything through.

I told her about an incident with our son... he's been legally blind since birth and I've worked with countless doctors, therapists, school officials over the years to get him what he needs. My H, on the other hand, has questionned his level of disability, repeatedly said things like "he can see that" and "he can do that, you're just enabling him".

One day (after his reawakening) he and DS were out riding the dirt bikes and DS ran into an overhanging tree branch -- he didn't see it. H came home and cried because he finally saw it, he finally realized what I had said all those 16 years was correct. I asked her what she thought OUR tree might be. Then she turned it around on me -- What did I think our tree was. I told her the end of our M. But that with his armor, he'd pretend it was ok, let me go, walk away because it would be too hard to admit he was the problem. Which is why I've never played that card. Because then I'd have to walk or be viewed as weak. And something I never wished for would happen.

I told her about the incident with the "friend". How disappointed I was, how angry, how I didn't handle it well at all. How he still at the end of the diatribe didn't get why I was upset.

She told me to write out exactly what I find offensive and tell him it's his job to protect me from it as much as possible, along with my vigilence. How I would never find any joke or situation like that funny. So I'm working on that to take to MC tomorrow night.

hefty you asked who was in full R and feeling better? Obviously not me.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 5:54 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((Zanny))))

Had a long talk with my wh last night. Seems he is pretty remorseful and just disgusted with himself. Talked abotu how he didn't let himself think how bad it was when it ws ahppening, but knows now. Said how sorry he was over nad over and that he was going to make it up to me and keep us together nad we woudl eventually get through it. Many of the things I needed to hear form him.

I am still haunted by it all.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:12 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was wondering if anyone could relate to something that seems to be a consistent pattern with me.
We have been having 2 hour C'ing sessions for several months now. We had taken a break and I realized that I needed to return. However, instead of coming home feeling better about my M and R, I feel tense, irritated and more angry. It's like once I let my hurt and pain out I can't seem to stop the flow and it carries on long after the session is over.
Yesterday, I had a 2 hour private session and of course last night I was "fired up." My H suggested that C'ing seemed to be making our situation worse, not better, and I had a hard time disagreeing with him.
On top of that, I started asking the same questions over and over and when he gave me his answers I just wanted to rage.
"Why didn't you stop? Why did you have to get caught?" His answer, "I felt responsible for her." Oh that just sent me into a rage. Now the dilemma is that that was the truth. But I just couldn't handle it. "Responsible for her, what about your responsibility to me, to our children???" "When I told you I loved you, how happy I was, what a wonderful life we had, didn't you feel guilty, couldn't that help you to stop?" His answer, "It made me feel good that I was keeping you both happy." (I know I told you this before but it came up again and it just infuriates me.)
I could feel my rage bubbling up and I had this intense desire to attack him. My hands were just itching to claw his eyes out. It took so much control not to start swinging.
Our anniversary is next week and he wants to go away for that weekend. I have a C'ing appointment 2 days before and I think I should cancel. I have to try to take advantage of any offerings to R and this is one of those opportunities.
Sorry for the long post but I'm so out of sorts with last nights downfall.
I guess what I'm asking is, Has anyone been able to turn these sessions around so that you leave feeling positive and that you leave ready to move forward instead of ready to go home and do battle?
Thanks for you help.
Hugs to all who are struggling. I am reading and thinking of you all.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:27 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IM and So Lost - It does sound as if your Hs are remorseful and are trying. I know it is hard for us to remember that this is hard for them too. They are being forced to confront how heinous their actions were and what that says about who they were as a person. Personally, I am glad that I don't have to confront that in myself.

FNF - okay, from a newbie, it sounds like your Cing is bringing out supressed rage. Perhaps you buried some of this soon after dday in an effort to survive on a day to day basis and it is just now coming back to the surface. I think the good news is that your H is still bearing the brunt of that anger and telling you the truth. He is not lying to make you feel better and he is not telling you to get over it. I would keep with the Cing as maybe this is the last blast of pyroclastics before the volcano dies?

I can see where you would want to have a nice weekend away. Maybe postpone your next session until immediately after your return when you can use it to reflect on the nice time you had together or bitch about what an asshole he was!!!


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would keep with the Cing as maybe this is the last blast of pyroclastics before the volcano dies?

I sure hope you're right about that Shirley. Oh, if he does turn out to be an asshole, you can bet he's getting tossed right into the center of that volcano.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 8:33 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf, I wish I could help out with this one, but our C sessions were worthless. We need to pick a new one and start over.

I think if you notice that you get all worked up, you probably should reschedule the one before your anniversary if you want to start the weekened off on a good note though.

Have you spoken to your C about what happens to you when you leave? Maybe he/she could 1) help you work through that, or 2) alter his/her style so that it doesn't fire you up as much (since you are working toward R).

"Why didn't you stop? Why did you have to get caught?" His answer, "I felt responsible for her." Oh that just sent me into a rage. Now the dilemma is that that was the truth. But I just couldn't handle it. "Responsible for her, what about your responsibility to me, to our children???" "When I told you I loved you, how happy I was, what a wonderful life we had, didn't you feel guilty, couldn't that help you to stop?"

<<<shudder>>>

Ugh. That is a very familiar conversation to me. Very painful.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 8:35 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I discussed this very problem with our C a while back. She said we needed to make a point to NOT take this beyond the session on that day. That it was too much for H to handle and if I was carrying on for hours afterward, the C wasn't going the way it should. That the methods needed to be tweaked.

If I come home from IC upset, it helps me if my H just sits on the couch with me and lets me cry on his shoulder, he doesn't have to do anything but hold me for a while.

Maybe write down whatever it is you are angry about right after your C session and try to bring it up when you're less emotionally vulnerable.

PS: Wouldn't mind some input on my letter to H in General. Read the second version.

[This message edited by weepy at 8:50 AM, January 17th (Thursday)]


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf, just a quick look round the door here, picking up the posts, so a quick note. Do you think your C sessions are too long? 2hrs. I mean, how can you possibly remember everything that has been covered? My/our sessions are an hour, sometimes 45mins, other times 90mins if it is going somewhere. I/we come away with certain points that have been brought out and she gives us some sort of guidance and “aims” for the next couple of weeks. For the first 9 or 10 mths they were weekly, then fortnightly. Occasionally we have managed a month without seeing her. But if I need to see her in the interim, I just ring and she fits me/us in. She’s there to help, not to increase anxiety or anger. The anger comes out, yes, but somehow it feels constructive, not destructive. Does that make sense?


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 9:46 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you everyone for your responses. I do think I need to tell my C what happens when I get home after a difficult session. I haven't told him this. I definitely need to postpone next week's session. I don't want anything to ruin our weekend.
UK - I think you may have a point here. We originally started the 2 hours because my H would have some private time, then me, then we would come in together. Yesterday I told him I need the 2 hours. I went back to the early years of our M where my H was virtually non-existent. As he says, "I was a paycheck." Always remind him that that was his choice, I never wanted it that way. But maybe that is the problem, too many things get stirred up and I leave feeling like a bubbling cauldron. Very good point. Thank You!
Weepy - I posted to you in General. I hope it helps.


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 10:07 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

IM and So Lost - It does sound as if your Hs are remorseful and are trying. I know it is hard for us to remember that this is hard for them too. They are being forced to confront how heinous their actions were and what that says about who they were as a person. Personally, I am glad that I don't have to confront that in myself

I think this is very true. I don't want to remember that, but it's true. I think particularly the past few days when I have finally reged adn said all the hateful things I think. He sort of sat back and said, fuck, I hate me for doing all that too. And when he gets defensive when we talk about how it started and all, I think again he feels like a complete idiot.

I even said to him last night. It must be impossible to let yourself believe you were the kind of person who woudl do such horrible, awful things.

I was thinking the same thing about 2 hours sessions. 1 hour wears me out. I don't think we could handle much over that. I tend to feel good after the MC ones adn more upset after the IC ones. Not sur why that is.

Wh is at IC right now. I wonder if he will tell me anything when we get home. I think I am going to ask a little bit. I want to know if he talked about eveyrthing that has been happening in the past week.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

fnf, your post made me think. We have stopped MC (after going for almost 2 years) to pursue our IC's--but those questions you mentioned you throw at your H are questions I still have inside, and though I got "answers" that are what is true for H, the answers are so unbelievable to me and hurtful and not explanation enough, that they're just not settling down in my mind!

On my good days, I cognitively therapize myself with--look at today, who he's with, how he's trying--don't dwell on what his feelings were during the LTA, look at them now--all that stuff. And I think, for me anyway, that those facts that are so haunting for me will ALWAYS be haunting and rage-inducing for me, cuz I will never really get them.

My H was also the responsible for her type, or in his words, "I didn't want to hurt her" and "I thought I would end it gradually" and all that unrealistic crap. And it will forever hurt that not just my pain that would erupt when I found out, but our kids pain--wasn't enough to make him stop. One of the many things I have to swallow and go on with.

As our MC once said, it turned out that H is the kind of man who can have an A--and my bubble that he wasn't that kind of man is forever shattered, and all the details are little shards of glass that will always be in my head--sort of like a bullet that can't be removed, but the patient goes on living quite okay!!

I'm starting to ramble, but I could relate to your feelings. Hope your getaway is good and the MC is afterwards!!


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