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User Topic: Long Term Affairs V I I I
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I believe that if you have a truly remorseful spouse (which it sounds like you do), as time goes on, their self-punishment is a thousand times more horrible than anything external could ever be.

My H was always remorseful, but I remember feeling the same way as you for quite a while. As time and IC went on and he came more and more to grips with all the layers of the reality of what he'd done--I don't think the agony will ever fully leave him.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1481 | Registered: Feb 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley, I thought/think that many times. They (WS and OP)commit crimes against us, and they DO get away with it.

I think no matter how remorseful they are, there is really nothing they can do, to give us back what they stole/damaged/broke.

My children and I will never get back the last 12 years. Whilst H was living his own life, being a selfish bastard, dipping in every now and then into our lives (when it was convenient for him), we were left to fend for ourselves. And if that wasnt bad enough, with his PA/gaslighting/blameshifting/whatever else you can add on, he systematically broke me down.
Oh yes, he says he never meant to hurt us. I believe him in part because he didnt even think about us. BUT I know that there had to have been times when he went to her/whatever, just as a FU to me. He said that the only times he did speak about me to her (OW2), was when he was pissed off with me and he confided in her what a hard time I gave him.

How can he be punished for that?
Him who doesnt like to even think about what he did, because it makes him sad. Him who only wants to look forward and not back? Him who says if we only look at where we are now, and where we are going, and just leave the past behind, then everything would be just fine.

MAybe I sound bitter ( ) because I havent had a consistently truly remorseful H. Maybe if I did have one, (like you and Brooke), then I would sound different.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 2:00 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


But. you know, when you look back on things, you have the peace and comfort of knowing that when it comes to your children and your family--because honestly, what else really matters in the end--you did and gave everything you could. He will never ever be able to say or feel that. My children are getting older and my H is paralyzed by the realization that there are only so many hours in a lifetime and he spent way too many being emotionally detached and absent. He will never get those days and hours back, to do over and do justice to the people and relationships most dear to him. I think that's some pretty major punishment.

He sent me a letter recently, on our anniversary, and one of the things he said is that post-A he's realized that other than when our children were born, he never ever knew what it really was to feel and that we all suffered from that. I think those nights that you wake up at 3 in the morning and take a long, hard look at yourself might be pretty punishing in those shoes.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1481 | Registered: Feb 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:12 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes I agree Brooke, for those spouses that do think like yours. Mine wont. Whenever the bad feelings come up, he cramps them in a box and shelves them.
He does feel sorry and tries to make it up by trying to be a better H and F. But I really dont think he realises what he lost. He says he does feel a little sad when we (the kids and I ) talk of a shared past (things we did, places we went)and he hasnt a clue what we are on about. But then he gets over it...

As you can see, I am in a pissy mood. I responded to your thread Brooke, and then immediately thought of deleting it cos it sounded so bitter.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 2:13 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


((hugs, Lost Heart))

I've had plenty of days like that.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1481 | Registered: Feb 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:15 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Brooke.
I just wish I knew what it was that was ailing me,KWIM?

crap.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One thing my H said about the "lost" years rang true too. He said he stopped seeing OW and the others around the time we moved to a new neighborhood. He said it was "a new start" for him. Our son at the time had entered middle school, our D high school. And he honestly said he didn't know where the years had gone. I asked him what the last thing he remembered about our son's schooling before he started wrestling (and dad used to go over after work to watch the workouts instead of seeing OW). He said he remembered his teacher calling us in and recommending he go on Ritalin, he thought our son was ADHD. I asked him if he remembered that was SECOND GRADE.

I have all those memories of school plays, concerts, special awards, hearing all the praise from our kids' teachers, meeting their friends. He had none of that. When he talks about being a father, it's a real trigger for me because I want to remind him that he wasn't one. The detachment, the anger, the discipline all during his A years. Before that he couldn't wait to get home and hug and play with his kids.

And LH, last weekend when he cried because we were having an argument about my feelings (the fact that I had them and showed them) just showed me how bad he still does feel for all his "let's move on, I've forgiven myself, it's over" talk. He knows. He just won't show it.

One of the "apologies" I think he owes is due to our kids too. That he wasn't there for them other than to yell and punish and ignore. He (again) thinks all he needs to do is be a good father NOW and it will make everything ok down the road.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 2:48 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He knows. He just won't show it.

True.


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
heftysmurf
♂ Member
Member # 17080
Default  Posted: 3:11 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do not know how much longer I can hold out. It has been over two months I have had one good week. She says sorry for dropping a piece of paper sorry for bumping me. Not one darn sorry about the affair ever unless I ask for it. No talk of the affair ever instigated by her. Makes me think she has no clue what she did to me, our daughter, and our marriage.
I think being a good parent, husband or wife now is not enough. That falls into the forget and move on scenario. That is what they were suppose to do! I think they should really step up. Say sorry and apologize every single day and cry that you gave them a chance. May amends. Treat you like a god or goddess. Is anybody here getting that? Cry for what they have done. I am not and I feel like I am eating this rat alone. I sometimes even question if they love us. I do not feel too loved right now.

sidenote - Am I the only guy here???

[This message edited by heftysmurf at 3:13 PM, January 11th (Friday)]


BH-Me- 34 WW-Her- 29
D-Day- 11-04-07
M 6 years Together 12 years
2 YR DD WOW I love her!
LTA 6 YEARS - stolen time
Limbo. Praying for DD and our M.
In ridiculous pain. Amazed I can stand.

Posts: 471 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: New York
Brokenworld
♀ Member
Member # 15293
Default  Posted: 3:34 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome to Hefty and the other newbies that have recently joined this group. I apologize for being so late to welcome you.

Weepy you brought up an interesting point about how your H thinks that by being a good Father now will make up for all the absences of the past. My H has been extremely generous to my son, expensive gifts in an attempt to 'make up' for all the years lost, and yet very little for my daughter. As best as I know, neither of them are aware of his LTA, but I wonder if any one else has experienced behavior like this? If so what do you make of it?


Me: BS
Him: FWH LTA 10+ years
Married:32 years; Together 34
In R I pray
1 Daughter; 1 Son
D-Day 7/2003
Confrontation 8/2004
Relapse 8/2006
Reconciliation...2008

Posts: 132 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: SE US
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 3:39 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sidenote - Am I the only guy here???
We've had a few more men on here but they don't post much, but don't let that stop you.
Sorry I haven't said hello and welcome before now.
I still ride the roller coaster pretty bad and can get pretty quiet at times.
Today is one of those lump in my throat days. blah
You're still so new to Dday. Long ways to go yet. Stick with us and we'll talk you through what we can. Me, I don't tend to give much advise, but I can listen real good. Just know something that was soooooo important to me. You are not alone in your feelings. We all know all too well what it feels like.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey FSA!
I am also having one of those blah! days/week?

Didnt get to say good morning to you, so will log off by saying goodnight FSA. Hang in there Feisty Special Ally!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
So Lost
♀ Member
Member # 16801
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HS, I have thought the same thing. There's no punishment. They got to have fun for years and now it's over so , poor things, have to give up their girlfriend but other than that they get to go on with life. And BTW, let's get an even better marriage out of the deal. It makes me sick. Some days I just want him to have to suffer as much as I am, just for a minute.

Typing as I'm reading....maybe mine doesn't realize it all yet. in fact, I am pretty sure he doesn't. As our therapist said, he is excellent at living in denial in many aspects of his life and the A was no different. I pray his new counselor will help him to uncover what is really going on and help him to come to terms with how awful he was.

Hefty, mine never brings up the A either. He will apologize and talk about it if asked and prompted but woudl ratehr just forget it. We are working on that. I told him I need things said otehr than when I am having a meltdown. He said he understood but hasn't really done it.

Sounds like it's a blah day for everyone.

Wh went to a new IC today. The MC we are seeing suggested I see her, he see this man and then all four of us meet together. He has seen the MC individually. He came home almost giddy. He said it went really well adn that he actually really talked to the guy. Said they even went over. said he thought it was a great match adn he was very comfortable with him. I wanted so badly to know what they talked about but I didn't ask and for the first time he didn't say. That put me off a bit. Although he shoudl never have to tell me. I get that. But it made me feel really discn=onnected from him. It's a work day anyway, so I hate those. He always saw her after work at night so when he goes to work, I tend to sit home with the kids and trigger. Plus it's gray out. Just a bad day all around. but I am happy for him. he needs someone to talk to that he will actually talk to.


Me: BS
Wh: WS
Dday 10/28/07
LTA with coworker
Attempting Reconciliation
he is remorseful, I am willing, we'll see what happens

Posts: 671 | Registered: Oct 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H is paralyzed by the realization that there are only so many hours in a lifetime and he spent way too many being emotionally detached and absent. He will never get those days and hours back, to do over and do justice to the people and relationships most dear to him. I think that's some pretty major punishment.

Brooke - I agree with this and I know it agonizes him to watch my pain. But part of me feels like he should bear these burdens and face punishment as well. Think of a drunk driver who kills someone. They must face the reality of what they did every day, they must face the family of the victim AND they must face punishment. I feel like I am the victim of a drunk driver. Yes, my H was broken and was able to compartmentalize. Yes, he never considered the devastation he would cause. Yes, he is starting to realize what he has done and will always bear that burden. Yes, he must face his victims, his daughters and me. But, what is the punishment? I am thinking 10 years (the length of his LTAs) in a cell with a guy named "Big Al" might be appropriate. People have faced worse for lesser "crimes". Sorry to keep rambling on this it just helps to get it out.

((Lost Heart)) you are so strong to face this without a completely remorseful H. I give you so much credit.

Hefty - you may be the only one currently posting but I was led here by a guy when I first found SI so I know they are lurking. It sounds as if your W is still seriously in "the fog". She hasn't even faced the reality of what she has done much less come to terms with what it means, the long term consequences, etc. From what I have read on wayward, it can take the WS up to 6 months to come out of the fog and start to be truly remorseful. That is why it is so important for you to set clear boundaries, enforce those boundaries and take care of yourself. She has to heal herself before you can even begin to R.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 4:04 PM, January 11th (Friday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:36 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LostH. I wish I could take inspiration from those “something inside so strong” lyrics – trouble is, those are some he took to try to win me back. Adding selected lines from the song into the verses he reassigned to from her to me. Hmmm. Sorry if I seem bitter. I don’t feel strong.

Shirl, oh yes. Have been there way too often. Weak for staying, weak if I chuck the towel in. I concluded that he was on a winner whatever. I could have thrown him out and she would take him willingly, I could let him stay, he wins again. I said he had the last hand of cards. IOW, he couldn’t lose. He had the A, I am paying the price.

And I’m sorry Brooke4, he will never know the depth of my pain. I tried to explain, many times. All I can say is that I do know how someone can die of a broken heart. Slowly, quietly, surely. He hurts, but only because he has had to share this knowledge, this disaster, his lost love reunited (in the fullest sense), with me. If it could have been kept a secret, a road he travelled unknown to me, the “blip” (as he described the first shag with her) would have been consigned to his personal history. No one would have been hurt. Which is what he thought it would be, what it should have been. He had us both, he wrote a love letter to me about a month after he met up with her again. How twisted is that? I maintain he was assuaging his guilt even then, keeping me reassured, and continued to do so for the next four and a half years. My H was only paralysed by being unable to decide who he wanted, so he carried to see if he should have married her after all. Even if he has had a vasectomy, oh, the irony of that! Goodbye W&M, hello lost love. Nauseating. Once again, why is he still here, why am I?

I understand LostH and Shirl and identify with most posting here. We all have to find ways to heal and move forward. And this is the best place I know. Hefty. Just stick around, it’s not all “chuck ‘em on the pyre”, sometimes we really love our WS’s. (God knows why, but we do ) Patience. Be patient and live each hour, then each day and then (after a while) each week. Please, be kind to yourself, and (I’m shaking you by the shoulders and slapping your face with a cold flannel in a bloke-ish way here) find an IC!!!!!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3327 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
25wimsey
♀ Member
Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I believe that if you have a truly remorseful spouse (which it sounds like you do), as time goes on, their self-punishment is a thousand times more horrible than anything external could ever be.

My H was always remorseful, but I remember feeling the same way as you for quite a while. As time and IC went on and he came more and more to grips with all the layers of the reality of what he'd done--I don't think the agony will ever fully leave him.

I do think this is true, for my H as well. But it's also true that no matter what, they can't really give us "back what they stole/damaged/broke" as LostHeart said. And it's something we both have to live with.

I find his own self-punishment gets in the way of our R sometimes--he gets paralyzed by whatever pain or changes in personality or whatever he sees in me, and though I don't stop talking about our R because of it, it does affect me. But those feelings of mine do co-exist with whatever positive stuff might be going on, and I refuse to stifle the more negative stuff just cuz it makes him feel bad. But it's a dilemma--probably not solvable, so we slog through that as well as through all the other stuff.

Still think it's not unreasonable for the resolution that we all look for to take as long as the LTA did, or at least the whole 5 of the 2-5 years you read about it taking people to recover from infidelity.

From over 2 years out, I can say that it doesn't feel the same horrible way it did the first year or so, but it sure isn't ideal yet for us. I guess I'll have to add on a few years for the OC!!

Sun is finally out here in "sunny" CA after days of rain--maybe spirits will lift a bit in our house!


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 6:32 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Sounds like it's a blah day for everyone. "

[raising my hand]

Yes, present and accounted for...blah, blah and more blah....
Coming up on 2nd year "remembrance/revulsion" day.....all rattling around in my head.

They (WS and OP)commit crimes against us, and they DO get away with it.
I think no matter how remorseful they are, there is really nothing they can do, to give us back what they stole/damaged/broke.


Must be in the air, Lost....been thinking about that today too.

I am thinking 10 years (the length of his LTAs) in a cell with a guy named "Big Al" might be appropriate. People have faced worse for lesser "crimes". Sorry to keep rambling on this it just helps to get it out.

Get it out, Shirley....it is toxic to keep it inside.

Personally, I have envisioned both H in his world and the POS OW in her lonely sordid world having to spend the length of the affair (8 yrs) being naked in public.
Work, stores, etc...everywhere. Enforced nudity.
Make them go full-out "public"....instead of the covert cover of parking lots and hotel rooms.
Let them feel how the BS feels when facing the humiliation of all the deceit and lies told to cater to their "hidden/covered up"
fuck-fests and insatiable needy egos.

Besides that lovely thought.....
Appealing to the Universe for a brighter, sunnier day tomorrow for us all.

Hugs


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

oooohhhh! NAS, I like the full out public nudity one! Reminds me of all the dreams when I forgot to study for the exam and somehow wasn't dressed when I was in the exam room.

If I could enforce one day of that, I think that would be proper pennace. Unfortunately, he would either get arrested or lose his nether regions to the cold! But I LOVE the idea.

Maybe I could do this on some weird vacation. I am now thinking about a plan. Before he confessed, I was planning a surprise safari trip for the whole family for his 50th. Maybe we go, I wipe him down in impala scent, leave him naked and watch from the jeep. We save him at the last minute but he gets the sh*t scared out of him. Need to talk to the tour companies to see who might do this....


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
kelsey913
♀ Member
Member # 17605
Default  Posted: 7:41 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All:

Went to go see "The Bucket List" today. The best part of the movie is the trailer for it. Totally depressing and put me in the worse mood imaginable. Just what I need.

I also feel that my h got off easy. Oh he feels the agony of seeing how much pain he has caused me! Well, he didn't need antidepressants or didn't have a trip to the er for a damn panic attack. Never had one of those before in my life. He didn't lose 25 pounds in a month (not that that was a bad thing in the long run) nor did he have days when he couldn't get out of the bed. The list goes on and on as you all know firsthand and how did the A incapacitate him? It didn't. Sure he was scared that he would lose me, but how scared could he have been, he tested fate for more than 5 years.

I really think if I kicked him to the curb, he would have sulked a bit and ran right off into the sunset with the whorey bitch. I think he had all his angles covered.

Geez, sorry this turned into a rant. Between that dumb movie and the rain, I don't stand a chance today.


Me - BS
Him - WH
5 Yr LTA
D-Day 8/5/07
Married 28 Years
R

Posts: 90 | Registered: Jan 2008
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 7:52 PM, January 11th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I feel like I am the victim of a drunk driver. Yes, my H was broken and was able to compartmentalize. Yes, he never considered the devastation he would cause. Yes, he is starting to realize what he has done and will always bear that burden. Yes, he must face his victims, his daughters and me. But, what is the punishment? I am thinking 10 years (the length of his LTAs) in a cell with a guy named "Big Al" might be appropriate. People have faced worse for lesser "crimes".

Your words and your feelings are very familiar to me, Shirley. I remember feeling that way a lot at first. That we were both standing under a huge pile of the most awful garbage but he had willingly brought it on us. That I had lost everything and he hadn't lost nearly enough. What I've seen as time has gone on is that as unbelievable as it probably seems to you right now, I started to heal, because as deep as the wound was, and yes, it will always leave a scar, it was inflicted externally. My H has made a ton of progress and healed too, but his wound grew internally and he'll always live with the knowledge that he let it take root there.

Several years ago we moved to a new city where we knew almost no one. A few weeks in, before we had a doctor here, I had an allergic reaction to Benadryl (figure that one out, because I still haven't) in the middle of the night. It was actually pretty scary (it not having occurred to me that you could be allergic to allergy medicine). I woke my H up and told him I needed to go to the hospital. We didn't know anyone to leave the kids with and I didn't want to wake them up, so I asked him to go out and flag me down a taxi. He did, I went, spent most of the night there hooked up to a cardiac monitor, and when they released me at 5:30 in the morning, got myself a taxi and came home. He was worried and concerned, but let's say, he had managed to get back to sleep in the interim.

Fast forward several years. Recently, H woke up in the middle of the night, violently ill. I called our doctor, and he thought it sounded like we should go to the hospital. Over my H's protests, I pulled the kids out of bed, threw shoes and coats on everyone, got us all in the car and brought him to the hospital. Two hours later H had had some serious antibiotics pumped into him and we were home, everyone tucked cozily back into beds. I was asleep in two seconds. After about an hour I woke up and rolled over. My H was lying on his back, silently shaking with tears, really sobbing, his pillow was soaked. When I asked what was wrong, thinking the whole experience had terrified him, he said, "I can't believe I was a person who let you do that on your own. I look back and see myself and who I was and it makes me sick with disgust."

I don't know--I think 10 years in a cell with Big Al might not be as bad as a lifetime with that in your head. But in my own personal scheme of things, the worst tortures are always mental.

And I’m sorry Brooke4, he will never know the depth of my pain. I tried to explain, many times. All I can say is that I do know how someone can die of a broken heart.

You're right UKgirl, there really is no knowing someone else's pain. I'm sorry, I really do know how unbearable it feels. I don't know if it helps, but part of the point I'm trying to make it that now, two years later, I really am in less pain than my H. I still have bad days and triggers and moment's of incredibly intense anger, but I'm so much better. If you had told me then that I would one day say this, I would have laughed in your face, but if I could take away some of his pain now, I would.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

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