I am glad to hear that you are okay....
I agree......any angst is for Zanny and the whole spector of what LTA does and can still do......
I needed to make sure I didn't transfer it to H.
He hates to see me sad, angry, crying, suspicious because he can't take how it makes HIM feel.
That is my H also. We don't talk about A much anymore because we are trying to "move forward". I think he WON'T talk about it because "he can't take how it makes him feel". Not the best for me though.
SoLost - your last post could have come directly from me. In fact I posted similar to this a couple days ago. I wish I knew OW was completely out of the picture, but may never know for sure. Can I live with that? Don't know yet.
I remember on Dday telling him not to stay just for the kids, and then somedays I know I only stayed because of the kids.
Weepy - Glad to see you are doing so well!
HurtS - How are you feeling?
He also feels remorse and guilt for what he feels he has done to OW and stills needs to "check in" to see that she is ok. I don't know if he initiates contact or just her, but I know he has broke NC. I have let him get away with this.
He admitted contact a couple months ago and claims nothing since then. I don't know. Have no new proof. That's my problem. How do I know?
I keep checking emails, but maybe he knows I am checking emails. Maybe I tipped my hand and they went underground. Maybe he is telling me the truth.?.
Don't know and don't know how to trust with so many lies.
How do I know?
Weepy, jeez! You had us a tad worried.But glad you are ok, and had a good day with Mr W.
Fnf, pm for you.
Funerals, like weddings, bring out some deep emotions. Hope everything runs smoothly with you.
Time for a little contributions from me.
HBH - I sometimes wonder if trust is just gone for good? I wonder if I will ever stop checking despite anything they say. Also NC is a must. I went through two mionths of hell and had a couple of good days. In many ways I made it happen all wrong. Seeing I am also in the double betrayl group I emailed OM and copied my wife and told him off and to stop anything at all. Did that reach my spouse....I do not know.
My WS offered for us to move yesterday. That actually makes me doubt she can control herself at all. Can he? Is that really what it will take? How about if they start to consider replacement for the affair partner? Does a major move help anyone? The thoughts you consider now after the betrayl I never could have imagined happening. Chin up and keep your eyes open!
[This message edited by heftysmurf at 12:25 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]
I just read the last 25 pages of the last thread. I understand a lot.
My wife has a deep seated resentment and hate against me. She love me too but formed this hate to justify the affair. She treated me like crap for our entire marriage. Sure she did nice things but man her fuse was way short for me. I escapaed and did not care to find out why. My fault on that.
I know I am a newbie just two months in but I doubt 6 years of hate and these built up justifications against me will change anytime soon. Also what about remorse. I had some initially and now nothing. Seems the same maybe a bit more nice to me. That is it. No more sorry please forgive me emails, talks by her, crying on her part,anything like that at all.
Those of you with WS not showing remorse I admire and cannot believe you can do it for any reason. I am so attached to my daughter but to know I am number two and have to prove myself to be a number one is brutal. I read about this on marriage builders and a synopsis was: ignore the affair, meet their needs, and then they will meet yours. Where do I heal in that? That seems like BS. Rewarding for the affair. I have changed and will continue for me and maybe a little for her.
How long do you wait for true remorse or am I asking for something I will never get? I feel without it I cannot continue and must separate. I have no clue how long I can wait as I feel like I am walking a painful path alone.
I was wondering as well if anybody did a moderate 180 to do a push out of the fog?
I forget who said this (was it you NAS?)but I think it's important to understand: LTA = LT recovery. So, so true!
Yes, fnf, it was me.
I say this and truly believe it.....not only is it just plain logical... but from the very beginning of being here at SI....and most definitely from participating in our tribe here....If I have learned nothing else...with absolute awareness....
Long-Term Affairs = Long-Term Recovery.
It is so obviously a multi-layered journey of acute pain and shock and damage deep within the BS, which does not go away just because MC and IC is taking place. it takes years and years..... But as each year passes, it gets clearer and easier to maintain your goal.
SO many factors play into beginning the path of healing from this kind of psychic and emotional assault.
SO much hinges on what the WS is capable of and sincerely willing to express and demonstrate...consistently and reliably.
And BS of a LTA do not know what is reliable for a long, long time.
BT is so right on with her "rewiring of the whole house" example. I'll even extend it to add that the BS in that analogy is literally the wood and bricks..which have been severely damaged and must be attended to before even the new wiring can begin.
There is "structural" damage to the BS.
All sense of trust is gone. Rebuilding that takes more than a few candid conversations between BS and WS and good deeds. When you have been lied to, to your face..for years.. you KNOW that your WS is that good at bluffing...and that good at NOT feeling any remorse while doing it. They become masters at it, they had to, to keep it going....and undoing that habit/skill doesn't happen overnight either. The BS is painfully aware of that too.
Factor in that BS are humiliated at the thought of so much of their life being a sham....self-esteem is blown to hell...so that has to be shored up....not a quick process either.
Also, the energy spent having to put on the faces to the "outside" world during the process, to maintain some semblance of dignity and status-quo for the family, requires prioritizing just what part of this mess you realistically have stamina for, on any given day.
It is no mystery or "wonder" why the stats are so dismal for BS who choose to attempt Recon from a LTA.
That's why this group is so important to me...only here can we cheer-lead each other through it..and just as important, support those who find out they can't.
I was wondering as well if anybody did a moderate 180 to do a push out of the fog?
hefty, I did not do ANY version of the 180....I couldn't, just didn't have anything left to do it with. I was too, too hollow.
Instead, after the 2nd D-day...I drew my line in the sand...and gave him an utlimatim. "Either show me a "real" effort and face....or get out!!"
It was what he needed to hear.
But remember, that is just our story. 180 does work for so many here.
hugs to all
[This message edited by numb and scared at 3:22 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]
Showing remorse, Hefty. I guess that would be being concerned about how YOU are and how this is affecting you and your take on the m., less about her. She had the A, she had dealt with it as it has gone along. She has, one assumes, dealt with the end. You have had this chucked on your lap and SHE has to help you sort through the sh*t. List your questions. Write them down. Get her to take them one by one and answer them. Do it chronologically and without emotive phrases, it makes it easier for her.
Weepy. Don’t allow yourself to accept blame – ever. You are not at fault for any of this. It was a case of his choice and, over the Xmas stuff, a case of “sh*t happens”. It’s minor in comparison. Titchy. Tiny. Of no consequence whatsoever in 12 months time. His A will have consequences forevermore. Enjoy your time. You deserve every day, every week, every month of it.
This makes my sh*t seem so much less. I am not so angry or upset or distressed as I was last night – and I’ve had a crap day on my scale! Big hugs to all. I couldn’t do it without you, honestly.
LostH – Start Jan? Feb 4? CG with Brit lot on? Am trying to make it!!!!
Zanny??? Are you okay? Just say you are here, honey. We’re concerned.
If you look at the timeline the LTA started right after our marriage. My marriage is a lie. Sad but true. Even if we survive I will never wear my original wedding ring again!
Now she sits here like move on. I am NOWHERE near ready. I need remorse like crazy. I feel without it I am setting myself up for her to have another affair and opening the window for me to. Nothing is fixed.
Side note- how many are still considering divorce?
Weepy - You are 50% responsible for marriage problems. 0% responsible for the affair. I am at least at that point. Anything different and the WS are not getting it.
[This message edited by heftysmurf at 4:17 PM, January 10th (Thursday)]
I will be posting in the next week or so. As you can imagine, there is so much to process. Writing is probably the most difficult thing right now because I have to gather my thoughts, and well, they are just scattered.
Buckets & Buckets
"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."
If I had been a little bit smarter or less in denial, I would have been in just about the same situation you are. My H and I also dated for six years before marrying, and his affair started in the first year of our marriage. Like your wife's, my H's A lasted for six years. Unlike you, however, the affair ended because the single OW got tired of waiting around. Although I had always had suspicions, I didn't find out the truth until my husband confessed after 21 years of marriage.
I've often thought about what would have happened had I found out about the affair all those years ago when it happened. I am absolutely sure that I would have divorced him. First, because I would not have had resources like SI and all the current books on marriage and infidelity to help me throuh it. And second, because neither my husband nor I at that point had what it takes to get through something like this.
Let me tell you that reconciling after a long-term affair will take just about everything both of you have to give. If at some point you aren't both willing to work like hell at this, you don't have a chance.
A LTA shortly after marriage to me indicates such deep problems in a WS that intensive IC for a long time is an absolute necessity. I wouldn't even try to reconcile without it. I would strongly suggest laying that down as a prerequisite to your wife when considering remaining married to her.
And I also believe you need some IC. This recovery requires reserves of strength, compassion, understanding and faith that I had no idea I possessed. I think I only made it through because I had an incredibly loving and wise counselor to help me. And a really effective and no-nonsense marriage counselor to help us.
And my husband expressed his remorse to me constantly. And he never failed to drop everything and answer my questions or hear my wailing. Had he not done that, I don't believe we would be in the good place that we are today.
Don't sit around forever waiting for what you need from her. Set a deadline for yourself and for her. Be as clear and specific about what you need as possible with her, and don't accept less. She has everything to prove, and your daughter cannot be taken away from you. Almost all states are ordering joint custody/joint time in divorces where both spouses were involved parents. Yes, it's not ideal, but neither is living with an unreformed, unremorseful cheater.
remember on Dday telling him not to stay just for the kids, and then somedays I know I only stayed because of the kids.
I know that for many reasons I am staying for the kids. He will alwasy say he is staying for both, it's a package. fter the Affair made it clear notto make a big deal out of this, it is a package that can't be seperated. But boy I wish he woudl say he was so in love with mehat he woudl never leave regardless. But who the hell am I kidding, he fucked someone else for 4 1/2 years. What makes me think he even thinks baou tme enough to come up withthat sentence???
I'm a bit bitter today. He's trying, but the anger phase is coming all of a sudden.
It could paralleled to a cancer survivor group who desperately want their cancer to be in remission, but then someone in the group has a resurgence. I am that someone, not you. It grieves me that I have frightened you.
Hugs and more hugs...
I thought of the cancer analogy because we have just been through that in our family.
Bless you and your genorosity of spirit to worry about us.
I am here and I am standing.
That is the most important thing I wanted to hear....
The rest will be what it will be......
Light and heart energy coming to you.
I am in awe of your spirit that you are able to give us a pep talk after what you have been through. Honestly, for me, I had another SI friend who doesn't post here but who had a 2nd dday about 1 1/2 years out. With both of your stories, I can honestly say it didn't trigger me. What it did was make me hurt for you and for her and for your situations. Because us LTA survivors care about one another deeply.
I understand about having difficulty writing out your situation. Often, actually putting it in writing is hard because it processes or makes it real. It was similar for me when we had our first MC and I had to spill out all the gory details. I felt so drained.
But we are here and willing to lend an ear and give you all the support you need when you are ready. Thank you for giving us that chance.
It grieves me that I have frightened you.
Oh, Zanny, you have so much grief right now please do not take this on. We are not frightened and we are here for you. I am sending you as much strength and love as I can. Please do not worry about us. Take care of yourself and lean on us.
BT - I bought one of those old houses with knob and tube wiring. Guess what? If you don't update the wiring it is dangerous; people die in preventable fires. Wish I had know I had married someone with that same wiring. He caught fire and I was bound with him in the flames. To his credit, he is working as hard as possible to re-wire himself. However, I have to wonder how much is possible. Won't there always be some old line in there that can catch fire? I know he wants to be "good" but he has a lifetime of "bad" to overcome.
Hefty - BT is right. If this has been going on the entire marriage then she needs some serious IC to address her issues. How would I know? I am 22 years into this and my H has been f'ing around on my through it all. It hasn't been constant but his childhood and his "issues" gave him the belief that he could do this, that he was entitled, that he could "put it away", that he needed to hurt me before I could hurt him, that he was getting back at his mother, etc, etc,etc and this in only after 5 months of intensive IC. Every week he uncovers another layer of himself that shocks him. If she is not in IC and is not remorseful, then you are not in R. Please look out for yourself. Set strong boundaries and hold to them.
To the Tribe - am feeling better but this one has hit me hard. I have been reading to keep up but the amount of troubles lately have been amazing. Is it the moon? The time of year (darkness, holidays passing)? I am wishing for bright days and sparkling nights for all.
It's good to hear from you and to know that our care and concern is helping.
Please, take care of yourself. Put yourself first.
Hang in there girl, we're here for whatever we can do for you.
Praying for you, strength, peace, comfort, and clarity.
If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?