[This message edited by Flying fox at 5:46 PM, April 12th (Thursday)]
[This message edited by Flying fox at 5:47 PM, April 12th (Thursday)]
Welcome. I feel like your situation is very similar to mine. My husband was diagnosed after his LTA was discovered. Though I knew there was something wrong for years (mentally and emotionally) he refused to get help. He has probably been suffering from BPD since he was a teenager.
Like you, the OW is my case is extremely manipulative. I feel she completely assessed my H's weaknesses and used that to drive a wedge, taking advantage of his mental illness. She sent me messages not too long ago that made it obvious she was still trying to drive a wedge between us (saying that H has been following her and that he is delusional). My H's diagnosis and her manipulation do not excuse his behavior. But they do help me to put some of the pieces together. Try not to let her into your head. She knows what she is doing when she says those things to you. I know I do the same thing too. But, the more I try to block it the easier it gets.
My H is also taking lamictal now. Not sure if it will work or not as he is still slowly increasing his dosage. I am putting a lot of hope into it. Although his manic phases now involve him staying up all night to paint or do other house projects; whereas before his mania usually involved rage and self-destruction. So, I guess that is an improvement.
The depression in him is like a black hole and it is very hard for me to deal with because I am the victim here. Yet, I feel that everyone (his counselor and psychiatrist) say that I need to 'be gentle' because he is an emotional wreck . I wonder how they think I am holding up?
Anyway, I think it would be a good idea if he would somehow let you into a psychiatrist appointment. In my case I knew that my H was not telling him everything because so many of the things he was doing he thought were 'normal.' So, I actually called the psychiatrist myself. They will listen to what you have to say. He told my H that he wanted me to join him for a long appointment. I wrote a chronology that was about 7 pages long. This really helped him to clarify his diagnosis, since I have seen most of his symptoms more than anyone else.
Also, I am very sorry to hear about your daughter. That must have been a tremendous burden for her, and traumatic. Perhaps she could benefit from some counseling too.
" I have become comfortably numb. "
" The flames are all gone, but the pain lingers on... "
You are so right about not letting the OW into your head looking back it was a mistake to speak to her but in the aftermath of discovery I immediately so angry about what my daughter had experienced that I couldn't stop myself. According to OW my marriage had been over for years and it was inexplicable that H hadn't divorced me. If only I'd known. The one thing I did gain from the conversation was that she was a deeply unpleasant money driven woman. This was a huge relief to me and convinced me that he was not in his right mind. She described him as a silly boy for handing over his phone and not deleting all their messages as she had told him to.
I have wasted many an hour thinking about ways to get back at her - whether and how to tell her husband. This is the stuff of worry in the small hours of the morning. I have done nothing about and will not but it's so hard to forget.
One difficulty as I'm sure you've found is finding anyone with remotely similar experience. Our experiences in relation to coping with LTA are extreme. People I have talked to themselves reel with shock at the immensity of the problem. What a luxury it would be to have the full disclosure which he advisors say is necessary for effective reconciliation Would also seem a luxury not to be facing H's deep black depression.
However time eases the sharpness of the pain and we are still together. At first I was totally against letting OW plus Bipolar destroy my family and that kept me making an effort but now H still not well I am completely exhausted from keeping everyone afloat and feel very flat about the situation probably because I realise the illness will never go away and H is broken so not sure the relationship will ever be equal.
Interestingly he ended the affair the day I found out and has given no indication of sorrow about that whatsoever. His reaction was more of total relief. Unfortunately illness is such that he can't look back at anything that has happened. How convenient but suicidal thoughts are frequent.
Just so hard to deal with all of of it. And to outside world he is doing a wonderful high powered job dynamic charming etc
I find increasingly that I want to run away!
Do you get any support from H's family? My H's family just don't want to know. I' m sure they want to think we just have a trivial domestic spat going on.
This is such an isolating and tangled problem situation to deal with. The LTA aspect is unusual even in the dedicated bipolar forums.
Only recently started looking at this site again since earlier as no disclosure forthcoming
much of the advice was off-target
[This message edited by mistyalone at 1:38 PM, March 22nd (Thursday)]
My H also immediately had NC with OW on D-Day. I did not ask for this because I kicked him out and told him the marriage was over. But he described being caught as a huge release. He said that he was living a double life and if I had not found out than he probably would have ended up killing himself (which I believe) or possibly someone else.
I told the OW's H immediately. I sent her an email and CC'd it to him the night I found out. I also called him at work the next day (yes he was at work the next day). He did not seem to care... so, I don't know what that is about. But I have absolutely zero regrets or doubts about telling him.
Yes, I do find it hard to find support. Certainly none of my friends have been through this. Although, oddly enough, right after D-Day I had a few friends who were victims of infidelity come out of the wood works. Only one was a LTA.
I do understand that my H was in a tornado of self-destruction due to his BPD and FOO problems. But that still doesn't help me to get over the length of the A. That is the hardest part for me.
I, too, feel flat. I am carrying on for my daughter and I just don't know what the future holds. I am here now taking it day by day and I feel numb at the moment (punctuated by intense moments of anger and sadness). All I can say is that he is trying hard.
We did not tell either of our families about the A or the BPD. Neither of us are particularly close to our families and, to be honest, with all the counseling he has had we have become very angry at his parents for what he had to go through as a child.
It sounds like your OW is seriously trying to make you think twice about your H's love for you. She is probably delusional because she thought they had 'something special.' But really, it was just a lie. A's are never based on reality. I soooooo want my OW to suffer. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about that.
You may want to check out the LTA group also. The LTA is truly a whole different monster.
Manic fog - I found it extraordinary to read about others and see that all were saying exactly the same things. Then putting bipolar on top of that made it easier too understand how he'd got into such a mess.
H is trying very hard but sheer length of affair and amount of lying and deception is barely manageable. I was sick when thought it was a year or two. When emerged (through my probing) that went on for years and years it entered a new realm of awfulness and despair and realisation of wasted years. And yet I had before me someone completely broken declaring that he had always loved me who was utterly relieved to have been found out who wanted to make everything right. I threw him out the day I found out and he was suicidal and had no friend or family to support him. I had to balance my daughter's welfare and health (she couldn't bear the sight of him) with compassion for him. My own feelings were on hold for months while I kept everyone else afloat.
Now after 18 months both children are comfortable with H and he comes home at weekends (works some distance away) but despite his best intentions the illness has him in its grip and he is beating himself up because he cannot cope/handle what he has done had what he became.
Completely understand anger at family. H's mother and absent father made major contribution to his development. Mother incapable of empathy and being OW to many men during his childhood taught him well and has no interest or concern with him now other than ensuring that his illness does not embarrass her.
When H is okay he is absolutely lovely.
You have heard "Hate the sin, not the sinner"?
That is the hardest thing for me to do right now. I am glad your children are still in H's life. If my WH leaves with his OW as he plans at the moment, my children, 15 & 16 have already said that they will have nothing to do with him. He is betraying them as much as he is betraying me right now. They really wonder if he even loves them. I want to be able to reassure them, but I can't.
His actions speak louder than my words.
He is firmly in the fog with no signs of coming out, save for a few moments of clarity where he tears up at one of us and then he snaps back to Bipolarman. He had his first break after a relationship ended in college. Ironicly that is the OW, he found her online and started talking to her. He was diagnosed in 1988 and was on meds til 1991. I met him later that year and have never seen him on meds. I forced him to go get help this time because my D was diagnosed with BP and she has heard him for years badmouth meds and psychs. If he did not go, she would not go. Last night he had an outburst at the psych when the appointment times got screwed up. He was so mad he did not hear the doc himself say that he was supposed to be there and could come in to the office now. He left, slammed the door and lef the lot. I had to call and plead with him to come back. He did and the pshyc upped Lithium to 1200mg and Seroquel to 300mg. Now I have to wait longer. But he was told by the psych and doc that what he is doing is because of the illness and he can not make any decisions about his life or the lives of his family until he is better.
I promised in sickness and in health...I am in for life.
I hope you and your kids find peace in that you did all you could do and now it is up to him to get better. See if he would read "Electroboy", it is a great book about a man with BP who is an acute manic. He has a website, that is where you buy the book.
[This message edited by mistyalone at 4:38 PM, March 23rd (Friday)]
H was put on Trileptal (oxcarbazepam, I think) for his BP. Just recently, his psych also prescribed generic Prozac for him as he was still being affected by depression.
Now, we've always had mismatched libidos. Mine is much higher. In fact, the only time our libidos have matched has been when he's manic (on reflection). A nice side effect of the BP. Now, though, his libido is non-existent. I don't think that I have a hugely high libido, I could definitely go for some loving every day, but 2 - 3 times a week would suffice. Right now, I am lucky if I get some once a fortnight. Of course, with lovemaking so few and far between, it's not unusual for the actual act itself to be disappointing and in fact more frustrating than getting nothing at all.
I hate this.
And what hurts as well is that during his most severe manic phase was when he was trying to hook in with OW. I got to read all the emails and texts about how horny he was for her, the instant arousal from thinking about her, the constant sexy dreams, all the things he wanted to do to her.
Even in our dating phase I never had that. Never. I've had him lie like a starfish having sex with me out of obligation (confronted and admitted to), I've been rejected sexually so many times that, quite frankly, I don't bother to try any more. I've had heated moments turn to nothing because something I said 'wasn't sexy' or he's just too damn tired from his medication.
I know that he looks at porn pictures on 4chan, so it's not like there's nothing going on at all, just apparently not with/for me. The other night (TMI warning) he finished and I hadn't been satisfied, so I told him that I would finish myself off. His response was "That's okay, I'm nearly asleep any way." Talk about buying a BOB, he says "You'd break it within a day from using it too much!" Why doesn't he CARE that I'm not satisfied?
I've gone from self pity to anger. Rant over, sorry.
I want to cry reading all of your painful stories here because I have been thru much of this Crap also.
Do any of you *check* to be sure your WH is actually taking or tossing the meds?
Has your WH also been going after the SAME sex?
I had to kick mine out 6 years ago and would not hesitate to do it all over again.
WH thinks all doctors are Quacks & of course, on his own, he is not medicated.
I have had to let him go...he was NOT the the man that I met and M. No remorse at all & so damned selfish!
Thank God we have no children and I have been to IC 6 yrs now. I wholly recommend IC.
Sending huge hugs to you all & keep SAFE!
My husband and I have been married for ten yrs. this August and together for over eleven. We had a great marriage for the first 8 yrs. and have three girls, a ten yr old and twin six yr olds. Two yrs ago we began to grow apart and my husband had a kind of paranoia where he decided in his mind I was having an affair with a childhood friend who lived 4,000 miles away. There was never an affair. He seemed to let it go for the most part and I thought we were going to get past it. This July when we were in Vegas for my sister's wedding he became physically violent and attacked me. Upon returning home I insisted he get help or we were done. He went to a Dr. that said he was depressed and put him on Zoloft. It was good for a few months then in November things started to change again. On Jan. 11 I discovered that he had been texting and talking to a women in a town an hour a way where he often went for work. He said she was a friend that he talked to to see how "crazy" he was. I have since learned that that he was sleeping with her and talking almost 24 hrs. a day. He said they met in Dec. but phone records show them talking in November. I have no access to his email and she has mentioned them emailing so I have no idea how long this was really going on. The day after I found out about her he had me drive him to a mental hospital in another town blaming his depression and Zoloft for the affair. They denied him. We came home and a day later while I was checking to see if communication had stopped I found another women in another town he was often in. When I confronted him he said it was someone helping him with his work website. He had been talking to this one at 2:00 am so I didnt buy that lie either. When I finally pushed him to tell me the truth he ran. He jumped in my car and went straight to the mental hospital again to self admit. All I got from him was text saying he was sorry and couldnt hurt me anymore. That she was just another friend he would talk to for advice. Well my husband was working for my family so I had access to the cell phone they had taken from him before he could erase it. That night i saw where the two of them had texted back and for about meeting up at all hours of the night and morning and having sex in her home. He has said he only met her in Dec. and all that I can find shows that they met on Dec. 1st. While he was int the hospital for two weeks I found that all of our money was gone, we were about to lose our home and everything else, he had been taking thousands from my father by claiming it was for me, they were ready to fire him at work, and he had only ever had and filled a 30 day rx from July of the Zoloft he blames. Because of numerous threats since July that he had no control in becoming violent again and his self admittance to the mental hospital I was terrified.None of this was in character for a man i had actually known most of my life. While he was in the hosp. I filed for divorce, emergency sole custody of our girls and a protective order. He was released on Jan. 23rd and was just plain mean. He could not come near me but sent texts and would call and tell me all of this was because of his depression and it all went back to his assumption of me having an affair. He said it had eaten away at him until he went "crazy" and that at the time with these two women he was justified. About two weeks later I could take the not knowing (he was still claiming to have slept with neither) so i called the latest one one night. I was on the phone with her all night as she gave me every gory detail of the two of them. She knew things about him only I should have known so I do believe her. She knew every detail about our life and children to the point it is creepy. She kept apoligizing and actually tried to be my friend. I did know better than that because until two weeks ago she was still avidly pursueing him. When i confronted him with the info she had given me (she even sent me a picture) He answeres some of my questions. He said he had first met her in a starbucks one morning and it went from there. He had slept with both women. And had had phone sex and sexting while masturbating to them almost every night (with me in the next room asleep) and most of every day during work. The two now know about eachother but didn't before I told them. He claims still to have little memory of doing any of it saying he was blacking out. He still refuses to give me any info on the first one other than her first name which she confirmed but I do not know where she lives, works, how he met her, or even her last name. He refuses saying he doesn't know. I do not believe this. Jan. 17 is the day I filed and we are waiting on the final date I do have protective orders so have not seen him in person since Jan. 13 when he left for the hosp. He has only seen our girls once as it has to be supervised until he is deemed stable by the court appointed specialist. Unless he is still emailing them he has stopped all comunication with the two women as far as I can see on our phone records. About the last week of February he claimed to have a mental breakthrough and was supposedly in shock over everything he had lost and what he had done to me and my girls. He said I was the only one he had or ever would love and that he would never get over losing me. This continued every day and had me thinking that some day in the future we might possibly have a chance if he fully recovered from the major depressive disorder he was diagnosed with in the hosp. But On March 17 he reverted. He out of nowhere changed the login to the phone records with a really bad excuse. When I made him give me the login because we do have orders keeping him from doing this he became angry and defensive claiming he wasn't talking to anyone but those from work and that I had better not dare to contact any of them he even made a big deal about adding the name adam to one new number claiming it was the contact for the new job he was taking and that he was getting info from him on where he could park his camper when he moved there this past Monday. Well the call and text to this "Adam" we exactly like the first two women. He talked to them all day and night for three day's straight complete with sending 11 video messages back and forth. During this time he was cold again when I would talk to him and stopped answering any questions I had. I was like DDay all over again but hurt so much more. He finally admitted on Wednesday that Adam was in fact Tasha. He had met her at one of the RV parks he was looking into and she was just telling him about the area he was moving to. I did text her she confirmed her name and has only said I have bigger problems if she is not the only one. He denies wrong doing saying he only hid it and lied because he figured I would get mad. And again he is very vague in that he say's he can't remember where he met her, where she works, her last name, or where she lives. Oh but he still wants to see if we can work this out because he loves me. When I ask how he expects to do that with no truth or effort he say's he is just not sure he will ever have answers for me or ever able to get over the "illness" that makes him this way. Now I am in complete limbo trying to figure out how to put my life back together, wondering if the past ten years have been a lie, and wondering did this all start in Dec. or has it been going on longer and I just never knew. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! I know he is lieing about almost everything. Is there any truth to support that he is doing all of this because of his mental illness? I am having the hardest time with the not knowing anything. And not knowing if what I thought we had that was so special was ever real. And is it possible that we could divorce and keep working to get him better and possibly ever be able to make it on any level. Keep in mind until this past July he had never hurt me physically or emotionally, was never secretive, very loving, and a wonderful hands on father. In fact until now i have never known a better man. Do I give up completly, do I try and how/when does the horrible pain and suffering I go through every day just from what's in my head end. I have no idea where to go from here. I am lucky to have a great family that has stepped up and taken care of my girls and I as well as setting up everything for the lawyers. I just feel so used, worthless, hurt, broken, and destroyed.... Not to mention very stupid! He say's he doesn't remember attacking me because he had so much to drink. Keep in mind he had always drank and never become violent until this night as far as I know he stopped drinking after this but since we are divorcing I am sure he is again. As of right now I do have protective orders keeping him atleast 500 yds away and because we live in a tiny town I know all of the police and they patrol my house regularly. It is just so damn hard to let go of the man I know is inside. He has always been my best friend my everything i am lost now. I feel like I am dealing with the loss of two men. I feel like the man I love so dearly has died and I am grieving his death. I fell like this new man is the monster that killed him and finds so much pleasure in my pain and suffering...
Not good for the bipolar and not safe for anyone else around them!
You are in an appalling situation. I know only too well how you are feeling not for exactly the same reason but because the intense shock and horror of the discovery of my husband's double life (already known to but undisguised by our teenage daughter) plunged me into something akin to post traumatic stress disorder.
I have had no disclosure from husband unless I had already found out from private detective, computer and phone records or from speaking (once) to OW.
I don't think I ever will know the full story, when it started, why, where.
He is too ill and not capable of facing up to it all himself of facing the man he became.
Can BP excuse the 15 plus years of wasted time during which I thought my husband loved me and the kids but throughout which his concentration time and attention was on on OW ? When he spent huge a
amounts of money on holidaying at 5* hotels while telling me he was working. When he didn't contact the children because his work trips were intensely busy? When he came home late and smelling of drink saying he'd been working late and ended with a drink with colleagues. When he snapped at us and withdrew from us because we didn't understand how hard he worked?
There is no way on earth BP excuses any of it.
But but but it does explain how he got into a frame of mind that allowed him to do it. It allowed me to feel compassion for him when the bubble burst and he was utterly contrite utterly lost and completely suicidal.
I as someone else said was not prepared to see someone else walk off with the decent man he might yet return to being.
I have read all the info here. People without BP become overwhelmed and carried away. With BP and the vulnerability/addictive/obsessive tendencies what chance do some have of behaving rationally and seeing things clearly when the illness has been undisguised or not effectively medicated?
So I decided there was no loss to me in giving husband a chance to change his behaviour and see what happened.
I refused to let the OW and BP destroy our family. I did not want a future for my kids that excluded their father from their lives.
I kicked him out immediately but gradually let him back for short time at weekends as he demonstrated his changed behaviours and as my damaged daughter was able to cope.
Eighteen months on from dday. He comes home (he works away during week) and we have sometimes like this weekend a really nice time as a family.
I no longer push to know all the gory details which earlier seemed essential. I look at and give him credit for the effort he is making every day.
From time to time I am overwhelmed with disgust and horror at his antics. He can not look back at all but he often is lovely far lovelier than he has been for many many years.
I will never forget but even now it is all less painful. He is still struggling with medication etc. And that is an ongoing issue since he is not allowing me to see doctors with him
But the kids now have an almost normal (though wary) relationship with him. And we are all able to enjoy things together as a family ( this weekend cinema and meal out).
I have never hated him just what he did. I will never forget. I have not truly forgiven him because he has not disclosed what he has done.
We have however found a way of dealing with it all that keeps us going and let's us have fun together.
It does mean taking each day at a time. You must look after yourself. You must establish some things that make you feel good (however small) and that are not dependent on your spouse.
Remember none of it is your fault.
You did not cause it.
You cannot control it.
You cannot cure it.
One problem is how isolated you can be facing such difficult things.
I also belong to the Bipolar Significant Others forum where you will find people going through similar experiences and a wealth of advice and support. They have limited numbers and so you can't always join immediately but keep visiting and join when you can. It has been described as the emergency room for spouses/partners of people with bipolar. I've found it a life saver because there are enough similarities to feel that you are not alone and in my experience friends and family however kindly disposed do not understand the full horror.
All the best to you and everyone struggling.