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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 4:21 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I guess I feel protective of my LTA tribe sisters, so I look out for you, too

BT, It's nice to know that someone is feeling protective of us....

I know what a mean person I can be, b/c I grew up with a mother just like me.

Your sentence here triggered a memory of something I read a long time ago......
That more often than not, our marriage dynamic....the style of communicating and reacting to each other will replicate the dynamic we had with one of our parents.
We all have heard the adage, "You marry someone just like your mother or father"....but this article I read defined that to be much more about the "pattern" you had with one of your parents, rather than the personality....and this will often play out with your spouse. Good or bad..

It surely is true in my case. My father was emotionally unavailable. Consequently I overcompensated and tried to be the model daughter. In his declining years, I was the designated "doer".....expected to be the cheerleader, nurse, fixer and social director for the family....roles I took on freely because that meant I would be loved by him..and he just may be loving back....

That pattern continued right into my marriage. And I can see that the resentment I often had for my father's just "assuming" I would "do it all"......was also present underneath the face of our marriage.

Just thought I would toss this in...
Anyone else relate to this?

I have a friend whose marriage was all about her dynamic with her mother.


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Vulnerability? I think my lack of “vulnerability”, in part, led to the A. She was doing the princess in the tower bit (ooh, look at me, I’m soooo unhappy and need rescuing) while I was holding everything else together. I was coping (typical woman dealing with one crisis one after another) and he saw I was. However, after DDay, I went to pieces. And, guess what? He got that white steed outta the stable and came for …. me!! Except that I see it clearly now, and think to myself, I don’t need that POS to rescue me. I am woman and I can stand on my own two feet and if he don’t like it, he can f*ck off.

BTW, I think he likes doing the “white steed” bit b/c I’d been attacked and raped a few weeks before I met him …..

Boy, I just can’t keep that fury down. How could I have been so STUPID? Why am I letting him stay and sleep in MY BED? He should be grovelling in some crummy flat. He should have gone to her. What am I doing here? There are no answers for me, he shagged her b/c he wanted to. And he thought he could return to that path with her after 25yrs. F*ck him. 2x4 self-abuse again, whacking myself back into that pit.

Altho I do realise my sh*t is nothing compared to some here. For that I apologise. ‘Night.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
unabletocope
♀ Member
Member # 11730
Default  Posted: 5:54 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Congratulations Lost Heart!!!

She was doing the princess in the tower bit (ooh, look at me, I’m soooo unhappy and need rescuing) while I was holding everything else together. I was coping (typical woman dealing with one crisis one after another) and he saw I was.

Oh wow, this hits home. OW had more life drama and claimed H was the only thing she could count on.
Me- I take care of everything. Period. OW was incredibly needy, and I wasn't. I stood at his side, I was his partner. We were a team. Now I'm the needy one and I hate it.


me-LTA BW


Posts: 2598 | Registered: Aug 2006
IMstrong
♀ Member
Member # 10637
Default  Posted: 5:59 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HurtShirley, yes I had trouble with vulnerability too. I didn't know it, but H said that he felt I didn't need him. OW used to ask him for gifts, money, etc, and that disgusted me. Then H admitted that it made him feel needed. Even our MC reacted that way when I told her that if I have to ask for a gift, I'd rather not have it. She was surprised and asked me why I feel that way. I still really don't know, except that maybe I feel that if he bought it for me because he "had to",(ie because I asked for it) it takes away the emotion or motivation behind the gift. It really chaps my ass to thnk of all the times I said no thank you to his offers of gifts because money was tight, but he was buying her things. Aaarrrgh!


Me BS
He FWS
LTA
DDay 2/20/2006
Reconciled

Posts: 76 | Registered: May 2006
IMstrong
♀ Member
Member # 10637
Default  Posted: 6:07 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This topic also reminds me of a movie trigger. Beofe I even knew about the A, in fact, while he was in the thick of it, we saw Love Actually. The part where the wife finds the necklace, then doesn't get it on hristmas morning? Caused a major meltdown for me. H asked me why I was so upset, i had to pause the movie and tell him that the wife IS the mistress. But she's so damn busy taking care of his kids, cooking his dinner, doing his laundry, cleaning his house, etc, that she doesn't have time to sit on her ass all day painting her toenails, shaving her legs and waxing her "bikini area" to be ready for him. He said my words really affected him, but it wasn't enough to get him out of the fog at that time.Guess my subconscious was trying to get my attention, huh? Did any of you react strongly to that movie? Even though that wasn't a LTA?


Me BS
He FWS
LTA
DDay 2/20/2006
Reconciled

Posts: 76 | Registered: May 2006
OneToughCowgirl
♀ Member
Member # 14817
Default  Posted: 6:31 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, the old knight in shining armour syndrome (also known as KISA around here). Yep, my H had that too. She was a helpless, sniveling, pathetic, needy POS, but she demonstrated continually she needed him. Couple this with sexual tension and many men are cooked I believe. These bitches are masters at this and in fact many don't have to even put on an act as their lives really are pathetic and they really are needy. My H said shortly after Dday, and still says, he never took her serious as a life potential life partner because she was so needy. But it was that neediness that hooked him and made him feel valued and wanted. I never once showed him in all our M that I needed him. Just about all of us women here in LTA can talk about the KISA effect in their FWH's A. It's a necessary ingredient I believe.


M 20 years / together 25 yrs
6 yr LTA
Me 47
FWH 48
D-Day Jan. 2006
We're good and getting better every day!

Posts: 607 | Registered: May 2007 | From: Chicago
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 6:34 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OTC – Thank you yet again for the thorough analysis and insight. Truly amazing stuff.
I don’t want to put your entire post in quotes and say me too, or that sounds familiar but it all rings familiar in some way with me. I think what has been most amazing for me is watching the H step into the void as my world collapsed around me and make things happen. At first he screwed up everything, couldn’t find anything, etc. but he is slowly learning and I realize what an idiot I was for both myself and him to take on so much before. BTW, I have never met you, only read your posts but I do have a hard time that *anyone* gets away with calling you their “little twinkie”!!!

(P.S. I have always sworn like a sailor so at least now I have an excuse!)

FSA – I repeat it was NOT ABOUT YOU IN ANY WAY AT ALL. As my H, my IC and our MC have said, it would have been anybody. You could have been dressed in white with flowers in your hair baking fresh bread and he would have done it. Give yourself a break. However, I do agree with you that this horrific experience gives us an opportunity to really examine ourselves and see if there are parts of ourselves that WE don’t like. It is not about trying to please someone else as much as a once-in-a-lifetime chance to make wholesale changes that we may have considered but didn’t think were that important.

BT- Thanks for looking out for us. Thank you for your words of wisdom.

I would show upsetment, but I didn't show neediness. I didn't convey to him that I needed him to soothe and comfort me.

Zanny – that is it exactly. He thought I didn’t need to be soothed, comforted, protected, etc. and meanwhile I wanted it so badly and was afraid to ask and look vulnerable.

F*ck him. 2x4 self-abuse again, whacking myself back into that pit. Altho I do realise my sh*t is nothing compared to some here. For that I apologise. ‘Night.

UK Girl – very, very tender 1x2 here….please stop whacking yourself w/ a 2x4. You do not deserve it. Your shit, my shit, everyone who is here shit, is awful. It stinks, it reeks and we were left sitting in a pile of it without our choice. Yes, you can stand on your own two feet but wouldn’t it feel nice to wear your PJs all day like OTC and make someone else walk in your shoes? You are doing amazingly well and should not be whacking yourself. Please take care of yourself.

As far as the OW, I have come to realize that their attraction was that they were easy in all the meanings of the word. My H said one was so stupid he couldn't even hold a conversation with her...hmmm, guess talking wasn't way up on the priority list. We are not easy women and I am proud of that. I am strong, intelligent and know what I want. I will not *knowingly* let someone take advantage of me. They will say, do and act in whatever way will give them a 'few precious minutes' without any regard to who they are and their own self-respect. I can now let them go as the are a different species than I. But give me a few days until I want to run one of them over with my car!

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 6:54 PM, January 3rd (Thursday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
25wimsey
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Member # 7816
Default  Posted: 6:36 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


She was doing the princess in the tower bit (ooh, look at me, I’m soooo unhappy and need rescuing) while I was holding everything else together. I was coping (typical woman dealing with one crisis one after another) and he saw I was.



Boy this is our situation here as well.
Oh wow, this hits home. OW had more life drama and claimed H was the only thing she could count on.
Me- I take care of everything. Period. OW was incredibly needy, and I wasn't. I stood at his side, I was his partner. We were a team. Now I'm the needy one and I hate it.

Hope this quote thing worked!

This hits home with me as well. H has always been a bit of a KISA (in his profession too), and I was the one coping and not a bottomless pit of need for him to rescue. He sees that, and says that living with someone like that is not what he wanted or thought was a good R, but tuning in to that part of OW did satisfy his own personality in some deep way--part of why he couldn't extricate himself for so long, he says.

My IC wondered if I could examine myself and see if there in fact are ways in which I have needs or wants that I deserve to have fulfilled, and maybe let H is to help me out with them--not in a fake way, but really in finding out about myself and what would be good for me, and maybe be a plus for my marriage connection. Hard to change the habits of a lifetime, but I think she may be right about that.

For months and months after d-day, and sometimes now when we're confronted by a situation with crazy OW and the OC, I am so incredibly high-maintenance--and to his credit, H tries to step up to the plate. Maybe this is a different way of relating and being a team that I can work with--but it's got to be real--I'm not changing my basic way of being just to make him feel better. Has to be a two-way street.

IMstrong, I react badly to ALL movies which involve infidelity--we have tried to avoid them at all costs, but it's hard. It's usually so unreal in the movies, and usually involves the WS and OW only--though I reacted to Love Actually, at least it showed the devastation of the BS on screen--a little bit anyway.

In fact, we saw Brokeback Mountain shortly after d-day--I loved the movie, could commiserate with the dilemmas of a gay couple in that setting, but in the end it was just another infidelity story--so it did trigger tears and despair a bit for me.

UKgirl, each person's shit buries them--noone has a worse or better story on an individual basis here on SI--it's all painful.


Posts: 695 | Registered: Aug 2005
runoverbytruck
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Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 7:53 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

YAYYYYY!!!! Lost I am so happy for you!!! I also was a SAHM and got a job just after d-day (or maybe it was just before???). I now am a very adamant believer that a woman should keep their toe in the water "just in case". Even if it is 4 hours a week at Pottery Barn. SOMETHING--just in case.

Someone thinks I am worth something

I understand this completely.

I have not really shown any vulnerability toward my H.

Same here. I never "needed" him. In fact, I often had the mindset that it was better that I "wanted" him in my life than I "needed" him. OW was young and completely stupid about money issues, work ethic, etc. I'm sure he felt like a king--a very wise king--when around her. He probably felt like he had nothing to offer me--as I could handle it all alone, and everything to offer her--because she would surely fall apart without him.

I controlled my H as best I could from day one and he reacted passive aggressively – we all know the outcome of this story. I controlled all my work and school environments by rising quickly into leadership. I controlled my feelings by intellectualizing them to the point where I could talk with the pros astutely but never really felt them. I controlled my friendships and acquaintances by managing their perceptions of me. I could not express or participate in anything intimate. I hid my fear of vulnerability by using quick wit and humor to charm others and give a false impression with a pseudo vulnerability using humor.

OTC, you have described me to a "T". I see it did as much good for you as it did for me.

But no one can have a LTA without someone willing to stay in a sordid pretense like that....deliberately invading. and continuing to invade..another person's life.

A morally vacant creature who KNOWS year in, year out...exactly what the deal is.....and gets their kicks doing it.

Even though... they are no higher than a roll of toilet paper when the D-day light comes on.

Other types of A's....ONS, quickie jungle-sex A's, onlines, SA's.....etc....these all have that "hit and run" element. Both from the cheater and the cheatee.

I know I am singing to the choir here....but DM's post just highlights so vividly the disgusting role the LTA OW/OM played in all this pain inflicted on families.

And for what?.....to spend furtive time in backseats, in parking lots, in blocked calls.....pathetic moments in-between the WS's real life...hidden away like rats.

NUMB!!! You GO girl!!! I'm impressed!!!

DM, I'm with the others. I can't believe your H would stoop so low as to give his gutter-trash-whore gifts you had given to him. I will never cease to be amazed at what these men will lower themselves to do.

UK, I'm sorry you are hurting so badly. What are you doing for yourself? Maybe if you concentrate more on making yourself happy, you will feel less anger and resentment. Adopt the "Me" attitude and see where it takes you. Perhaps it will give you strength to just walk away.

((((((((((((((hugs to all))))))))))))))


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
DMS88
♀ Member
Member # 13461
Default  Posted: 8:04 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everybody for all your advice. I know he should quit drinking, but it is never going to happen. And I really don't have the moral high ground to demand it.

I like to drink wine. But I usually have it with a meal for dinner and I keep it to a minimum. He starts drinking as soon as he gets up.

He is a functional alcoholic when he is not in an affair. He is a drunk when he has a guilty conscious.

He tried quitting once for lent and he was impossible to live with. He was so mean that I never encouraged him to quit, just cut down.

I guess he was going through withdraws. It was horrible.

I cannot imagine him quiting all together. We both started drinking (legally) as teenagers while in the military. Alcohol used to play a major role in social events in the military and it was widely accepted to be a drinker and a smoker decades ago.

I don't think he has the will or desire to be alcohol free.

I, on the other hand, often quit for weeks or months and sometimes up to a year at a time. I don't think I am addicted, but I do enjoy the taste of wine.

Anyway, I am going to try to work this out. It has been three months since the last d-day and I think he is finally starting to emerge from the fog.

I just have to hang tough and hope the OW does not contact me again. I told him I WILL GET A RO if she contacts us again.

[This message edited by DMS88 at 8:05 PM, January 3rd (Thursday)]


Me: 47 years old
Husband: 46 years old
Married: 22 years, together 25
Two children, 7 & 8
Discovered the affair: 4 Jan '07. It started in March '06.
Second D-Day 9 October 2007 (same woman).
Reconciling--hopefully not a false R

Posts: 1518 | Registered: Jan 2007
zanny
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Member # 13183
Default  Posted: 8:12 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You know it's funny, I am mulling over this KISA concept, knowing that this a huge attraction for all men.

I knew my H's OW. Oh, she was around and a part of our world. The thought of an A definitely crossed my mind over the years, and I asked, but I trusted his denials. I also didn't think of her as his type. I thought an OW would be kittenish and sexy. Um, NOT!! I saw her as brusque, abrupt, and often inappopriate. BUT, this was a woman that seemed to generate one crises after another. She was in the midst of a divorce when this A started. Clearly, she had sent out the damsel in distress signals and the fact that she wanted him and like OTC said, "he was cooked".

Did they have the type of relationship where he soothed and nurtured her? No, no way. Not like what we have now, but she called him into the problems and moved aside to allow him to help her. I don't think that their personal interactions necessarily had a KISA factor, it was more the qualities of her whole life. The fact that she was alone and that she had no family nearby. She relied on him to be the husband/father figure and he knew that without him, she didn't have protection. The protection was so minimal, it wasn't financial, physical, or emotional. It was more like he was a male friend she could call when she wanted advice. He desperately wanted to be replaced by someone else and encouraged her to date. She would not. So, he kept getting called in and he couldn't say no.

Can men say no to this? I often wonder because if anyone asked my H for help, I don't think he could say no. The sexuality just intensifies it. Even after she moved far away, for two years, no sex, she would call and bend his ear. He couldn't hurt her feelings by saying "Enough, go away." It would have gone on until his dying day even if he never set eyes on her again. It wasn't love, it was just this blip in his peripheral vision that he couldn't shake loose because she kept asking for it.

I know many of you don't know your OW. I did, and one emotion that was constantly evoked for this woman was PITY. It was part of what allowed me to tolerate it. She created a victim aura that was of her own making and far from the ruthlessness of her nature.


BS-Me
WS-Him
D-day #1 LTA
False Reconciliation then
D-day #2
In reconciliation


"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."


Posts: 573 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: The Middle of Somewhere
up2me
♀ Member
Member # 10681
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey tribe
a friend of mine has celtic cards and dealt this card...i thought the tribe might appreciate the thought

Acceptance
Sometimes acceptance means accepting the unacceptable with grace. You are more than your body or mind. Love yourself completely and unconditionally. In finding your true self, you could just live happily ever after

i wish the tribe peace through acceptance



Posts: 690 | Registered: May 2006 | From: ny
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 9:42 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OW in our scenario also was a damsel in distress.

Her opening lines to H when they met "at the coffee machine" in a convenience store were that her H was indifferent to her and she didn't trust him and their marriage was not "fulfilling."

Ironic, huh...she then starts sneaking out and screwing with someone else's H ....being unavailable and untrustworthy.

Sneaking out with a man using the same cliche'd lines as hers..and being the same blatant hypocrite as she was.

Do people steeped in pandering only to themselves EVER look in the mirror??
Do they ever see the hypocrisy of it all??

Or is that revelation only to come from their devastated BS, post D-day....and/or after marathon hours and hours of expensive therapy??

But at least some WS do eventually get it....
But the process getting there can feel like a long, long labor with a breech-birth and no C-section available to bring on a shorter and safer delivery....

Hugs to all the LTA sisters in "labor" tonight.....


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Acceptance
Sometimes acceptance means accepting the unacceptable with grace. You are more than your body or mind. Love yourself completely and unconditionally. In finding your true self, you could just live happily ever after

up2me,

Wonderful quote.....love it..


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



Posts: 3958 | Registered: Feb 2006 | From:
Feeling so alone
♀ Member
Member # 14492
Default  Posted: 9:48 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

FSA – I repeat it was NOT ABOUT YOU IN ANY WAY AT ALL. As my H, my IC and our MC have said, it would have been anybody.
O.K. I have a hard time getting my thoughts down on here, but I'm going to try this again.

I KNOW IT WAS NOT ABOUT ME. IT WAS HIS AND HIS ALONE MAJOR FUCK UP!!!!! I take responsibility for my actions that aided in the breakdown of the M. And trust me on this one girls, I was not innocent of any wrong doing in our M. I can be a cold and ruthless bitch. Not always, but when you push my right buttons, I can go there. But I'll always hold onto the thought that had our M not soured that LTA probably would not have happened. Still doesn't make it my fault. And the breakdown in the M was not just my fault. H was not a good H. So I became cold and distant. Round and round we go. Did the chicken or the egg come first. I definitely was not June Cleaver with my perky little ironed dresses and the immaculate house with all 3 meals cooked everyday, along with the big smile on my face and a pat on H's back when he needed it, and let's not forget to turn into sexual goddesses when the lights go out. I was FSA strong woman who needs no one. H had pissed me off one too many times, so I was there to make sure he knew what an absolute ass he was any chance I got, and make sure I get my digs in about how much money he was not making, and when he's hurting let's just turn our back on him b/c don't forget he has pissed me off one too many times. F the perky ironed dress, and the 3 cooked meals, and the nice house and all else that goes with it.
Actually I wasn't all THAT bad. I was a good house wife. Just not a good wife. I know how I was. Still once again, does not excuse what he did. And he asked for alot of what he got. But it still does not excuse the way that I acted. But then let's go around one more time, had he been the H that I thought I was M, I probably would not have turned into what I did.

Anyone else relate to this?

I have a friend whose marriage was all about her dynamic with her mother.

Numb, I know that my mother plays a huge role into who I am. She was the one that I never wanted to be like. But guess what, I see her in me on a regular basis.

Ummm the KISA.......... Not my H. I don't think this fits him at all. Not to be ugly toward him, just honest. He's too darn lazy for KISA. I think it was snaggletooth b/c he is so lazy, she was just that easy. Took no effort on his part. I wish she would have been needy, probably would have ended years ago.

UK, what's got you in such a place. I know that I go there too. Still quite often as a matter of fact. And at times I don't want to let go of the anger. I want him to feel it along with me. Told IC just this evening "if I'm hurting he's darn sure going to be hurting with me". But I hate to see you angry, 'cause I know all too well what it feels like.

Let's see if I can think of some little light ditty to pick up the atmosphere.

ow they think they're so dear.
When I'd just as soon puke on them with beer.
Our H's we all know are not all that bright.
B/c we look on these ow with fright.
Now what could ever make a man so dumb.
But some ow with her ass rapped around her thumb.
Now let me say to all the ow.
Please just disappear into oblivion.

Better give DD a chance at the computer. By the way she's pacing, I think she may end up hyperventilating before long.

FSA


Together we're working through an LTA

If a man says something in the woods and there's not a woman there to hear it, is he still wrong?


Posts: 1357 | Registered: May 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 10:47 PM, January 3rd (Thursday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you, FSA, and I understand and agree. I could have written the same thing about myself, my husband and my mother.

I've been thinking about why it seemed so important to me to belabor the point that we did not cause the A. It embarrasses me to admit this, but I think it goes back to some really arrogant assumptions I made about my husband, assumptions that helped him do the things he did and hide them for so long.

I really believed that my husband would not dare do to me the kind of things he did. Part of the reason I cultivated my tough gal, strong woman image was to protect me from being vulnerable to anyone, including him. I built myself a rep to discourage anyone from trying to hurt me. I was a fierce competitor in my career and in my hobbies. I have strong opinions and I share them when moved to. And while I treated my H, my friends and my family well, I made a point of letting the world know that I would never let anyone screw me over (that's a laught, eh?)

Anyway, I had a vision of him as the malleable one in our relationship, because he was more easy-going, quieter and with a less decisive personality. I believed that I was the one who called the shots and controlled the relationship. And he encouraged that belief because it fit his non-confrontational personality. But it was a complete delusion on my part, and an arrogance that I have spent years paying for.

Finding out about the A showed me just how wrong I was about the balance of power in our marriage. My H had his own agenda and pursued it relentlessly, as I did. He was simply far more subtle and stealthy about it than I was. I thought I was calling the shots and the whole time he was allowing me to believe that, while doing whatever the hell he wanted behind my back.

That was my sin of pride and I understood that very soon after d-day. If I were to believe that I caused his affair, I would be continuing to believe that he was some kind of puppet whose strings I held in my hands. I will never make the mistake of underestimating him in that way again. He made his choices based on what he wanted to do, just as I did. I never did control him and never will. The difference now is that I know it.

[This message edited by BorrowTrouble at 11:29 PM, January 3rd (Thursday)]


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 1:19 AM, January 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

<<<jaw dropping>>>

Wow, BT. That was awesome insight. Thank you for writing it all out like that. I too thought I "ran things" around here, but you are absolutely right. And he was all too happy to let me believe that because it suited his agenda.

Wow.

-------------------------------------

IM, I forgot to address you movie comment...I don't remember the movie. What do you mean that the wife was the mistress?

DMS, I also forgot to mention what a HUGE piece of SHIT your H's OW is for doing that. As IF she couldn't get any worse...she sends the box to you for Christmas. There's a special place in Hell for these girls.

UN-believable. <<<shaking head>>>

FSA, hon...it just wouldn't matter whether or not you were June Cleaver. I came darn close (well, not really...but I certainly busted my ass trying), and my H still had an LTA. Not only did I improve my anger and controlling ways years before this started (can you tell I'm still so very hung up on this fact??? I just don't know where to "put" it. ) He worked two jobs and I made sure and had five HOT meals a day--one to eat before he left and the others were packed to take with him. I always baked cookies for him to take to his shift. The cookies??? Yes, he left them on the front seat of his car while he went inside and screwed the herpeharpy. (I don't know why, but that image of the lone tray of cookies in the car hurts me terribly. ) He was responsible for N-O-T-H-I-N-G at home because I thought: "My awesome H works two jobs to support his family so I can stay home and be a mom." I took a lot of crap from my friends because of this. I did all the cleaning/shopping/cooking/laundry, etc. I handled the school stuff, sports stuff--you name it. Made his doctor's/dental appointments. I even ironed his clothes for work. Meanwhile, I monitored my diet, exercised to stay in shape and dressed in "hip" clothes. He was very loved and very well taken care of.

He still cheated.

You could have been June Cleaver herself, FSA. In fact, Ward was probably banging his secretary at the office.

edited to add: Very nice, up2me. Good to "see" you.

[This message edited by runoverbytruck at 1:21 AM, January 4th (Friday)]


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:55 AM, January 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need and nurture. My IC/MC asked me what my needs were and when I said I didn’t know b/c I didn’t think I had any(???) she asked me what I thought the difference was between need and nurture. I said one is selfish and the other unselfish. If you need, you take and if you nurture, you give. So, it would seem that I am all give and no take. OW was so needy that she even phoned him for help when her mother or sister was taken ill on holiday in Greece. She said he provided her with more support than her own H who was at home ….. Why, when my H was hardly going to fly out to her? And, yes Zanny, he couldn’t say no to her. He couldn’t tell her it was over, he couldn’t see her again, etc. Even after he had told me she was still texting pathetic messages about how she couldn’t live w/o him, voicemails saying she was sure she was about to do something stupid, she was so unhappy, on AD’s and drinking too much. Blah, blah, blah. She never thought of what she was doing to me.

I never controlled my H in any way. I never whined to him, never complained about his working hours or him being away, moved around the country with kids and dogs in tow. If I wanted time out to go off and visit friends or family, I would arrange and book it well in advance for him. (then later he would arrange to meet her either side of those dates.) He never had to think about dates for birthdays or anniversaries (except hers, of course). I never told him to do anything. If he did something I asked, that was great, if not? Well, I’d just quietly do it myself. I can’t bring myself to “need” him. Even less now, b/c I don’t trust him to be there for me. I still think part of him misses her and all that anticipation, intensity and romance they had.

Up2me, I can’t forgive him for his A, but I put it to my IC that maybe I could accept it, just accept that it had happened and was over. But today, that’s not an option either.

Films? In addition to Love Actually. Sliding Doors (top of the list), Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (I’d like to erase her), Separate Lies, Unfaithful (that one with Richard Gere), Intimacy. Oh, there are loads.

Another crap day cos I still want to beat the sh*t out of my H.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 6:24 AM, January 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm going to have to catch up later cause H couldn't decide whether to go to work today or not so he hung around till about 5 minutes ago. Must be nice to be able to think that way.

Anyway, congratulations Lost. It took years for me to finally think of my earnings as MY money. My money was always OUR money. HIS money was HIS money. I used to have to beg for a check at the end of each month to make ends meet, scrimped, saved while he was blowing a fortune. Any time he "cries poor" now just irks me to no end.

He did it twice yesterday. CAncelled his IC for this weekend because "he has to work since the 'wife' is unemployed." AND he said he didn't want to see this month's utility bills with me home now and using electricity and all that. LIke my YEAR's severance isn't going to cover the bills. Fucker! I have a million items for MC tonight, but I think that's the subject matter. If he's saying those things in front of me, what's he saying behind my back!

fsa

I helped keep him away. His personality flaws might have made it easy for him to stray, but I still think that my personality flaws helped to keep him away.

I think this was self-preservation. I struggled with this very thing, still do at times. But he was ABSENT, what was there to connect with? I reviewed at the beginning all the times I tried to reach him, the getaways, the vacations, the packing kids off for sleepover camp every summer for weeks so we could be alone. Nothing reached him. I figured out it took about 5 years for me to finally withdraw completely from the relationship. Five years I tried to get to him. By the end of that period I was completely broken of spirit and confidence. HIS doing, not ours.

He had a "damsel" too. She was nothing, nobody, needy, broken, sick and either he saw himself as "better" because he wasn't THAT bad or he felt he was helping her, saving her from herself at least for the times they were together. She wasn't allowed to drink or drug with him he said. I think he felt true guilt when she was killed that mornign... a morning time he might have been with her had they not "broken up" by that point. He could have "saved" her again. The first couple times he went to her house were lies based on her "needing" some construction work done... he ignored completely that it was a rental property and she had no obligation/reason to be hiring contractors. He used it as justification for what he wanted to do.

Re the movie, I found a jewelry receipt once. Never got the watch for Christmas. Do you think that scene got to me? I watched it alone, not H's kind of movie, but if he'd been around, I wonder if it would have triggered something?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
numb and scared
♀ Member
Member # 9908
Default  Posted: 6:46 AM, January 4th (Friday), 2008View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


It embarrasses me to admit this, but I think it goes back to some really arrogant assumptions I made about my husband, assumptions that helped him do the things he did and hide them for so long.

I really believed that my husband would not dare do to me the kind of things he did.

BT, I strongly relate to this. We had a very similar situation.
But I wouldn't use "arrogant" to describe my feelings now.

My H is also seen as a "quiet" guy..reticent to jump in on things that "he" isn't wanting to do or interested in...much preferring to let others, "me"...do all the planning, networking etc...and yes, being the non-confronter, always. No matter how often or much I asked for [or wanted] consensus, he would defer to me.
It all looked like I was running the show. And I was more than capable of taking the lead.

However, in things he wanted to do or get...he simply went about it quietly, with stealth....never raising any real signals. Quietly establishing his own routine that I couldn't have recognized because I was busy "doing", "deciding"...making our life be "real."

Realizing how, as you said, "the balance of power" was quite opposite than what it looked like or felt like was a huge slam along with everything else.

I never thought he would do anything like this because he was very convincing and methodical.
For me, it wasn't arrogance, it was logic. I assumed it to be so, because, as I realized after D-day and the wrenching months of disclosure that followed....he was that good at it.

Classic passive/aggressive??...or very skilled manipulation...??

The jury is still out on that with him and his IC.

We/I have had to change many patterns to make this work now.

Another crap day cos I still want to beat the sh*t out of my H.

UKgirl,
That's okay and very undestandable. There were many days when I couldn't stand even looking at him. Just take care of YOU right now,

Run,
Thinking of you..


BS
LTA
"Lying is the strongest acknowledgement of the force of truth."
- William Hazlitt
"Let us move on, and step out boldly, though it be into the night, and we can scarcely see the way."
-Charles B. Newcomb



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