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User Topic: Long Term Affairs -V I I
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think we had a similar dynamic going on, too. A WS with deep-seated, but hidden, self-esteem issues whose initial pride in his wife was mixed with envy and eventualy morphed into resentment.

I think that scenario is always going to result in something awful -- an affair or an abandonment or a bitter, hate-filled marriage of the kind that makes everyone cringe. The only way to prevent one of those from happening is for the envious/resentful spouse to reframe his feelings for his spouse. To learn through life or IC or religion or whatever to see himself as part of the same team as his/her spouse, rather than as their competitor.

Honestly, I don't think it makes much difference how the envied spouse acts in that kind of dynamic. If your spouse views you with resentment and sees himself as threatened by you or shown up by you, they see everything you do through that prism. Whether you are a shrew who takes them completely for granted or a adoring underling who treats them like a God, they still resent you. It is always you and them, or you versus them. Never us against the world. A LTA WS always holds himself separate and apart in subtle and not-so-subtle ways that allows them to do what they do.


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
Lost Heart
♀ Member
Member # 11515
Default  Posted: 3:24 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome hope.
He wants you to focus on the now? If only it was that easy!

Stick around and you will find lots of support, advice and sometimes just a hug.

Look forward to getting to know you.

Isn't this something we all do in life? Take our issues (which more than likely stem from childhood) and place them all over the relationships in our lives - instead of seeing the R for what it is, on its own merits?

Or lack of merits in some instances.
Very true SVS.Sorry you are feeling down.
((((SVS))))

Thanks for the article fwd ROBT. I am going to check it out now.The paragraphs you highlighted made alot of sense.

Hey Tribe!
Seeing as many of us are feeling low, how about picking one NY resolution that will make us feel better?
It can be a simple one as doing a homefacial every week.

Mine is:
Joining the gym.
Although I gained a few kilos in the last few months, I still weigh the lowest I have in the last 10 years. I NEVER thought I would be able to walk into a regular shop and buy regular clothes!
And I LOVE IT!
But I am terrified of getting big again. Also although I am smaller now, I am more unfit. I used to gym before and was superfit then.
So I want to maintain my weight but get fitter and healthier.
Thats my NY resolution!


Everyday is a winding road
I get a little bit closer
Everyday is a faded sign
I get a little bit closer to feeling fine

Posts: 2471 | Registered: Aug 2006 | From: London
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 3:28 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


(((Hope))) welcome Good job taking that first step. I am sorry that you find yourself a member of our tribe but this is the best place I have found to help me and to help others. Feel free to chime in when you want, to ask questions, to lend an ear when others are in need. You will learn that your situation while seemingly unique will have similarities in the stories of others.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 3:32 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Could it be that the thread in common with all our H's is a massive inadequacy issue with regards to how they see us as life partners?

Just got out of the shower and realized I didn't really respond to this.

I think my H feels stupid around me. Always has. I think he believes I'm smart, and he is not. He often tells me I make him feel stupid. I also think he doesn't have the social skills with other people that I do, and that makes him feel inadequate. I think that meeting someone in their "hole" of an apartment, under covert darkness--never seeing the light of day or other people socially, and the fact that they didn't really have anything to talk about other than how great each of them thought the other was, probably made it pretty easy for him to feel "equal" to the herpeharpy. He didn't have to exert any effort what-so-ever. Not only that, but she was much, much younger than he was, and he probably felt like he was the wiser of the two. I bet it felt great!

Add to that though, that he had two very successful careers, one of which held great prestige. It was a new career for him, and I really think he got a dose of "Wow! Look who I am!" and got too big for his britches. It was an ego boost he had never known before. And I don't doubt for a minute that that particular career was a HUGE draw for a young, stupid girl. I admit...I was even more attracted to him because of it. And his other job looked big too to a young, stupid girl (had to say it again ). It spoke dollar signs. If he had been a regular Joe--doing something less spectacular...she probably wouldn't have looked twice at him.

So...my answer is "yes"...and then..."yes, but...".


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

If your spouse views you with resentment and sees himself as threatened by you or shown up by you, they see everything you do through that prism. Whether you are a shrew who takes them completely for granted or a adoring underling who treats them like a God, they still resent you. It is always you and them, or you versus them. Never us against the world.

Wanted to add that I agree with BT too. Inadequacy is a "self" issue.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
hope610
♀ Member
Member # 16161
Default  Posted: 4:08 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the welcome. I already feel lighter having shared my burden with people who can understand me.

Posts: 99 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: Michigan
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hope, welcome. I only have a few minutes here but need to share. You know me, H made a comment today to our DS who received a call from his old GF and told his current one. His reaction was "that was your mistake, telling her." I feel hopeless....... what isn't he telling ME?


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:25 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - I just had my H read your post and I think it gave him the chills. He said that was it exactly - he felt envy and resentment, he felt like he was competing with me. It is so weird to hear him say these things. Five months ago I could have put him on the rack and he would have died denying all of it.

ETA: Hope - keep sharing, it really will help.

[This message edited by hurtshirley at 4:27 PM, December 30th (Sunday)]


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
BorrowTrouble
♀ Member
Member # 2435
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shirley,

As much as it sucks, you know that's a hugely hopeful sign, right? His willingness to not only acknowledge those unattractive feelings to himself, but to IC and you, is the necessary first step to change.

Lighting up the dark corners of our souls is the first step to celaring them out.

BT


D-day 7/29/04.

Posts: 5711 | Registered: Oct 2003
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 4:32 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His reaction was "that was your mistake, telling her." I feel hopeless....... what isn't he telling ME?

YIPES! I wouldn't like that AT ALL.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:35 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BT - I think you are right. In a weird way it is making me calmer to hear him say in his own words what I used to "feel" through his actions. Through his words he is reinforcing that I wasn't crazy, that what I was feeling was real, that I should listen to myself and trust my instincts.

In addition, I feel that, if he is willing to admit it to me, he cannot possible still be feeling that way. If he was still competing he wouldn't let me on "his side". But again, I wait for months of action to back his words. I have learned from all of you that this is a verrrrry long process.


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy, sorry but I don't understand....can you explain further?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
mumto3sat
♀ Member
Member # 14336
Default  Posted: 4:54 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Weepy I agree with Run, that would freak me out, even if it didn't mean anything in relation to my relationship with him, just the fact that he still thinks this is acceptable to teach his son would be of great concern to me.

I'm really sorry ((((Weepy))))

On the positive side though it may not mean that he is hiding anything significant from you necessarily. I certainly don't believe I know everything in my sitch, and now I don't ask much unless I really have to know, I am finally beginning to realise that I will NEVER know everything and I think H deliberately doesn't tell me everything because of my reaction to it. But I do now believe that I have have the full big picture and the details will have to take care of themselves.

Take care Weepy.


Me (BS): 38
Him (WS): 38
3 children, d 6 s 4 s 1yr
D day #1 03/16/07 8 mth ea
D day #2 07/13/07 turned into 7 year long term affair, pa/ea 08/18/07 Got final info - is that it?

Posts: 284 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: UK
hurtshirley
Member
Member # 16197
Default  Posted: 8:11 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BTW - this is the most exhausting process I have every gone through. I worked 100 hour weeks in M&A on Wall St and it was a piece of cake compared to this. I am exhausted every night by 8-9 pm. I have the older kids helping put the younger to bed so that I don't have to move. And, I am in good shape - work out hard more 3X per week. How do you guys keep this going for years?


"Forgiveness is the grace by which you enable the other person to get up, and get up with dignity, to begin anew" Desmond Tutu

Posts: 2170 | Registered: Sep 2007
2yrsinthedark
♀ Member
Member # 16278
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi there, if I should post here. As you can see by my name, his affair lasted 2yrs. It was an EA, pretty sure no PA since she lives 600 miles away. I was gaslighted for those 2yrs until I had proof.


"Trust but verify"

Me-44 BS
Him-44 WS
Married 18 yrs
Dday 8/25/07
two yr EA (maybe longer, maybe w/ more than one)
4 Kids 15,13,8,8


Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: TX
weepy
♀ Member
Member # 8790
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

just the fact that he still thinks this is acceptable

You hit it exactly mum. He still thinks it's acceptable to keep things from people if it's going to "hurt" them. Like I know he would never tell me if there was any kind of inappropriate action going on with anyone. It just never occurs to him to tell the truth first. He defaults to protecting himself (or his environment) first and foremost.

Could it be that the thread in common with all our H's is a massive inadequacy issue

Sure is true here. But mine covers it with the biggest slathering of arrogance that it's hard to distinguish if it's just his ego protection or he really is an asshole.


Dday: 9/12/05
M: 29 yrs( me anyway )
BS(me): 55 And I'm ok with that
FWS: 57- Multiple PAs, LTA 7? yrs.

Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. -- Yoda


Posts: 9340 | Registered: Nov 2005 | From: SE PA
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 10:49 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome 2yrs. Another member of the club nobody wants to belong to.

You too are among friends.


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
2yrsinthedark
♀ Member
Member # 16278
Default  Posted: 11:34 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks runover, been looking for people I can talk to. My dday was 8/24/07, and have so many different emotions. How he could lie to me for so long. I feel so stupid. He tells me its me he wants and has had n/c since dday. I should feel be happy about that, but at the same time how can I believe that? How can he drop her so easily after two yrs. Calling her his soulmate. Im so confused.


"Trust but verify"

Me-44 BS
Him-44 WS
Married 18 yrs
Dday 8/25/07
two yr EA (maybe longer, maybe w/ more than one)
4 Kids 15,13,8,8


Posts: 378 | Registered: Sep 2007 | From: TX
runoverbytruck
♀ Member
Member # 11752
Default  Posted: 11:56 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He tells me its me he wants and has had n/c since dday. I should feel be happy about that, but at the same time how can I believe that? How can he drop her so easily after two yrs.

Oh, hon, I know. I don't understand this either. My H says he just didn't know how to get out of it. After all that time and all those lies...he just didn't have the balls to tell her the truth--that he wasn't leaving. He kept telling her what she wanted to hear because it was easier than telling her what she didn't want to hear. Unfortunately, that just kept it going--for years.

I also believe that most of these men don't want to be this person. Inside, they are ashamed of what they are doing. Continuing the behavior leads to more shame. The only thing that alleviates the shame is that the OW knows what they are/what they are doing and she "accepts" him anyway. It puts a salve on the hurt they feel from the shame. It becomes the only thing that relieves them of it. Kind of like drugs to an addict. They may not want to be a drug addict, but they feel like crap if they try to stop. So they take more of the drug--even though they really don't want to--and find temporary relief. On and on it goes.

Are you in counseling? Are you and your H in counseling together? If not...try to get in. You will need help with this. Are you reading or have you read any books on affairs? There is so much information out there on this subject. It's bittersweet. The first year I couldn't get my hands on enough of them.

How is your H behaving?

What are you doing for you?


LTA BS

If you think the grass is greener on the other side, it's because it's fertilized with bullshit.

The best protection a woman can have is courage.~Elizabeth Cady Stanton


Posts: 6814 | Registered: Aug 2006
zanny
♀ Member
Member # 13183
Default  Posted: 4:56 AM, December 31st (Monday), 2007View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honestly, I don't think it makes much difference how the envied spouse acts in that kind of dynamic. If your spouse views you with resentment and sees himself as threatened by you or shown up by you, they see everything you do through that prism. Whether you are a shrew who takes them completely for granted or a adoring underling who treats them like a God, they still resent you. It is always you and them, or you versus them. Never us against the world. A LTA WS always holds himself separate and apart in subtle and not-so-subtle ways that allows them to do what they do.

Yes, that's how I feel. H appreciated my abilities, but at the time of the A, I guess I fell into the *shrew* category. Unapproachable. He was to afraid to come to me, and took matters in his own hands. So, the bottom line is that he held himself apart so he could do what he wanted to do. It wasn't about "us", it was about him. He can come up with all of the reasons why I wasn't included in this decision, and perhaps some appear valid from his perspective, but the bottom line is he chose to set himself apart and to hold a different standard. Several months back, he said he just sat and thought of the word "cheater" and it dawned on him that it is someone who goes outside of the rules that are set by everyone else. I know that sounds like a simplistic revelation, but for him, it really dawned on him that he just created his own standard not only in our relationship but in society as well.

Isn't this something we all do in life? Take our issues (which more than likely stem from childhood) and place them all over the relationships in our lives - instead of seeing the R for what it is, on its own merits?

Yes, that is it. Like you said svs, we try to become whole with two broken parts. I never imagined it was so difficult to bring two lives together. I thought we were doing it before the A, but I guess I was horribly wrong as he showed me! Now, the key is trying to come together and make it work. Hendrix calls it moving from the unconscious marriage to the conscious marriage. It's quite painful. I think for us, the difficult part is keeping it all there out in the open and not retreating.

What is so difficult at this point, for me, is that I am not a blathering mess. I don't sob and heave, so the pain isn't as apparent. In some ways, it was easier to heal through the messiness because we constantly addressed it. Now, I hold more back, it's easier than being a mess, but when I do come apart, he seems surprised that it is happening. A little bit like, "I thought you were better by now Zanny. Where's this coming from?" Or, "Oh no, here we go again, we were okay for some time." I don't mind stuffing it, but only when it works for me!! I am happy to give him the benefit of my ability to stuff it, but I don't want it to be the expectation!

I also believe that most of these men don't want to be this person. Inside, they are ashamed of what they are doing. Continuing the behavior leads to more shame. The only thing that alleviates the shame is that the OW knows what they are/what they are doing and she "accepts" him anyway. It puts a salve on the hurt they feel from the shame. It becomes the only thing that relieves them of it. Kind of like drugs to an addict. They may not want to be a drug addict, but they feel like crap if they try to stop. So they take more of the drug--even though they really don't want to--and find temporary relief. On and on it goes.

Run, just so true. It just kept perpetuating. They feel the shame and there is no outlet for it other than the OW. If they reveal, they lose their wife and family. They just keep going back to the source for another hit because it's the only place to go. It's quite a pickle they have gotten into. H still called OW when we were very close to d-day. I had confronted him a couple of weeks before d-day, but he denied, imagine that. Then, he wrote me this long e-mail saying how he would never talk to her again yada yada yada. Mind you, there was nothing to this relationship at this point except that shame factor. After knowing he was so close to a d-day, he called her just 3 days before the actual d-day. Later when we talked about it, he said that it was like she was the only one who knew this piece of him. This horrible spineless piece and when he called her, he felt like he could be liked by someone for his totality.

I guess once they engage in this, they hide this piece from others. No place to go but there. In a way, it's similar to us. We are hiding our H's infidelity from most others. I know many times, the only authenticity I feel is discussing it with only those who know. That is being less the case, as I imagine it does for them as they grow more comfortable with the diseased condition they created in the affair.

Well, this is long. It was good to see many of you...Mum, love to see your posts again.

Welcome new ones. Try to post frequently, that will make you feel more connected. We get many new people who come through, but it's easier to know the story when more is shared. That's where the benefits come.


BS-Me
WS-Him
D-day #1 LTA
False Reconciliation then
D-day #2
In reconciliation


"Just when the caterpillar thought it was over, she became a butterfly."


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